The Amazing Spider-man

[The Dark Knight]

it's funny because I know people who complained about the the New Yorkers banding together for Spider-Man in Raimi's films, yet we get it again in this one. This is one of the reasons why the new film doesn't completely work; if you're touting this as a reboot with a "completely different" take on the character, then you shouldn't copy what has been done before. But this film is BEGGING for comparisons because it doesn't really break new ground, or tell the story differently enough. Plus these things were handled better by Raimi in the first place. Did I think the New Yorkers were a little cheesy in 1-3? Yes, but it worked. This new crane scene was downright groan-inducing. It didn't fit the slightly more negative world view the new movie has.

Exactly.

[riddler]

here's why i liked it better; EVERY character except POSSIBLY the title one was upped from the previous films. And those were characters scattered across 3 films;

-Gwen Stacey was infinitely better than either love interest in Raimis films
-I can't possibly see Dylan Baker doing nearly as good as the lizard as Rhyfus Ifans did
-Aunt may had the duality she had in the comics. Rosemary Harris has her moments of criticizing peter but she doesn't really do anything other than give wisdom. Sally field on the other hand is very tough on him and you get that it's tough love. Her constantly waiting up on him felt like pages taken right out of the comics
-Martin Sheen also gave Uncle ben more depth. In the raimi films he was basically there as an older figure to give advice. Sheen make him cooler, harder on peter and also sympathetic. Now to be fair, Cliff Robertson died earlier than Sheen did and if i have one complaint, they downgraded that from a major plot point to merely a foot note.
=Dennis Leary surprised me as captain stacy. I know James Cromwell is probably a better actor but he is kind of portrayed as an incompetent crusty old man as well. His daughter is dangling in a high rise. Contrast that to Leary who goes out of his way to single handedly fight the lizard to save spider-man and the city.
-Flash thompson is also basically taken out of the comics. First film he's a bully at the beginning until parker stands up. In this film he is the bully whom everybody hates (again taken from the comics) but also has a nice side, he lays off parker after Ben does and at the end as well. And of course in the comics Thompson is a jerk but he's brave and idolizes spiderman. He enjoys bullying but in the big picture does the right thing; joins the army and loses his legs. I could see this Flash Thompson do that.


It'll be interesting to see how they do with the green goblin; Raimi had him flawed but still a great character. Willem Dafoe was outstanding but the goblin was slightly cartoony.

[Bobthegoon89]

I'm curious to know how Spidey fans deal with the confusion of having 2 seperate series of movies.

Do they now throw out the Maguire films and pretend they don't exist (like our own problem with those pesky Nolan devotees? lol). I hope not.

Personally the Maguire film was better told in my book. Scene after scene lifted from the comic book. Pretty much Amazing Fantasy #15. Garfield is a fantastic new Spidey but his movie took too many liberties I think with the familar story. Although a great surprising new version I can't say it's the "definitive" version.

[riddler]

I'm curious to know how Spidey fans deal with the confusion of having 2 seperate series of movies.

Do they now throw out the Maguire films and pretend they don't exist (like our own problem with those pesky Nolan devotees? lol). I hope not.

Personally the Maguire film was better told in my book. Scene after scene lifted from the comic book. Pretty much Amazing Fantasy #15. Garfield is a fantastic new Spidey but his movie took too many liberties I think with the familar story. Although a great surprising new version I can't say it's the "definitive" version.

Spidey is generally the #1 marvel film. He's my favourite of the popular ones and I'm praying we don't get a Raimi vs. Webb battle to the tune of Burton vs. Nolan. I like the Webb film the best but will have no problem admitting if the sequel ends up worse than the Raimi ones. But like anything there is a 'new is better' crowd. When the next bat films come out, some Nolanites will migrate to being fans of the next guy. Also some grew up with the Raimi films (i'm 29 now and was 19 in 2002 so didnt really grow up with Raimis films) and may keep them closer to the chest.

[Azrael]

Cool feature about the villains in the sequel

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/spider-man/24285/rhino-electro-the-amazing-spider-man-2-villains-in-depth

[The Joker]

Continued from the Random Stuff Thread

I think best case scenario (unless we get too sick of the series) would be a nine film saga made up of three separate arcs, the two you have outlined and a third featuring 'The Rise and Fall of Venom'.  This is how I'd do that saga:

Film VI (Part I of the Venom saga):  Introduce Eddie Brock as an arrogant obnoxious professional rival of Peter Parker at the Daily Bugle.  At the same time the main antagonists of the piece will be tragic-villain, John Jameson, an astronaut who it later transpires has also unwittingly brought the symbiote to Earth with him along with the pendant that transforms him into Man-Wolf, and Kraven the Hunter, the ostensibly law-abiding real villain of the piece who is seeking to hunt and kill Man-Wolf by any means possible.  The film ends with John Jameson defeated/saved/cured by Spider-Man, Kraven defeated and swearing to one day avenge Spider-Man and a final shot of the symbiote escaping from John Jameson's apartment and attaching itself to Spider-Man/Parker.

Film VII (Part II of the Venom saga): Eddie Brock is sacked from the Daily Bugle for photos he snapped in the previous film erroneously linking Man-Wolf to various attacks taking place in Central Park (a personal dimension is added since it transpires that Man-Wolf is of course his boss's son).  Consequently, Peter Parker, who found the evidence absolving John Jameson/Man-Wolf from the aforementioned crimes, is given a promotion and made a permanent member of the photography team at the Daily Bugle in Brock's place.  In the meantime, Spider-Man is taken over by the symbiote and begins to behave in a strange manner.  Spider-Man is linked to various crimes occurring throughout New York and Parker, practically possessed by the symbiote begins to doubt his sanity.  It later transpires that the Chameleon, Kraven the Hunter's brother, has been committing crimes in order to frame Spider-Man and therefore both avenge his brother's humiliation and try to best his brother in defeating Spider-Man.  The film ends with Spider-Man releasing himself of the symbiote which then ends up attaching itself to Brock, whose parallel 'hard luck' story occurs through the rest of the movie.  A post-credits sequence reveals Brock as Venom.

Because the Chameleon is not the most visually-exciting villain there may be room for an additional antagonist such as the Scorpion or the Spider-Slayers who have been hired to catch the 'bad' Spider-Man, although it is arguable whether J. Jonah Jameson will still be responsible for their being since he has good reason to have changed his mind about Spider-Man following the events of the previous film.

Film VIII (Part III of the Venom saga): This film can either be entirely devoted to Venom/Eddie Brock's attempt to take down Spider-Man/Peter Parker and destroy his life, or since Eddie Brock's back-story has been established throughout two previous films, it can start with Spider-Man versus Venom before the latter is defeated and sent to jail and end with a now reformed Venom teaming-up with Spider-Man to go up against Brock's crazed cell-mate Cletus Kasady AKA Carnage who is taken over by the symbiote's offspring in the midst of the symbiote tracking down an imprisoned Brock.

Obviously, this a very crude concept, but this is roughly the type of arc I'd like to see onscreen.  Although I'm not a massive Venom 'fanboy' he is a character with a lot of potential that deserves to be done right on screen preferably in a multi-film arc which establishes Eddie Brock and his antagonistic relationship with Peter Parker well before he becomes Venom.

Not a bad treatment for a cinematic Spider-Man/Venom Saga. I too would prefer to see Eddie Brock/Venom being re-introduced in a Spider-Man film, but I have doubt that Columbia would be able to restrain themselves from using the character for very long. Especially with word of there being interest in a Venom spin-off movie (though that front has been fairly quiet). Not sure if Marc Webb has ever made any substantial comment on what his opinion on Venom is, though I would be very interested. But yeah, having the antagonistic Parker/Brock relationship established in a film, prior to the symbiote bonding with Brock, would be great. Especially if the 616 continuity is the blue print where we get the older, flattop Eddie Brock (not Eddie Brock Jr. like in the Ultimate SM), who would, as his character progresses, becomes the 'Lethal Protector' that became a considerable part of the character.

[riddler]

Continued from the Random Stuff Thread

I think best case scenario (unless we get too sick of the series) would be a nine film saga made up of three separate arcs, the two you have outlined and a third featuring 'The Rise and Fall of Venom'.  This is how I'd do that saga:

Film VI (Part I of the Venom saga):  Introduce Eddie Brock as an arrogant obnoxious professional rival of Peter Parker at the Daily Bugle.  At the same time the main antagonists of the piece will be tragic-villain, John Jameson, an astronaut who it later transpires has also unwittingly brought the symbiote to Earth with him along with the pendant that transforms him into Man-Wolf, and Kraven the Hunter, the ostensibly law-abiding real villain of the piece who is seeking to hunt and kill Man-Wolf by any means possible.  The film ends with John Jameson defeated/saved/cured by Spider-Man, Kraven defeated and swearing to one day avenge Spider-Man and a final shot of the symbiote escaping from John Jameson's apartment and attaching itself to Spider-Man/Parker.

Film VII (Part II of the Venom saga): Eddie Brock is sacked from the Daily Bugle for photos he snapped in the previous film erroneously linking Man-Wolf to various attacks taking place in Central Park (a personal dimension is added since it transpires that Man-Wolf is of course his boss's son).  Consequently, Peter Parker, who found the evidence absolving John Jameson/Man-Wolf from the aforementioned crimes, is given a promotion and made a permanent member of the photography team at the Daily Bugle in Brock's place.  In the meantime, Spider-Man is taken over by the symbiote and begins to behave in a strange manner.  Spider-Man is linked to various crimes occurring throughout New York and Parker, practically possessed by the symbiote begins to doubt his sanity.  It later transpires that the Chameleon, Kraven the Hunter's brother, has been committing crimes in order to frame Spider-Man and therefore both avenge his brother's humiliation and try to best his brother in defeating Spider-Man.  The film ends with Spider-Man releasing himself of the symbiote which then ends up attaching itself to Brock, whose parallel 'hard luck' story occurs through the rest of the movie.  A post-credits sequence reveals Brock as Venom.

Because the Chameleon is not the most visually-exciting villain there may be room for an additional antagonist such as the Scorpion or the Spider-Slayers who have been hired to catch the 'bad' Spider-Man, although it is arguable whether J. Jonah Jameson will still be responsible for their being since he has good reason to have changed his mind about Spider-Man following the events of the previous film.

Film VIII (Part III of the Venom saga): This film can either be entirely devoted to Venom/Eddie Brock's attempt to take down Spider-Man/Peter Parker and destroy his life, or since Eddie Brock's back-story has been established throughout two previous films, it can start with Spider-Man versus Venom before the latter is defeated and sent to jail and end with a now reformed Venom teaming-up with Spider-Man to go up against Brock's crazed cell-mate Cletus Kasady AKA Carnage who is taken over by the symbiote's offspring in the midst of the symbiote tracking down an imprisoned Brock.

Obviously, this a very crude concept, but this is roughly the type of arc I'd like to see onscreen.  Although I'm not a massive Venom 'fanboy' he is a character with a lot of potential that deserves to be done right on screen preferably in a multi-film arc which establishes Eddie Brock and his antagonistic relationship with Peter Parker well before he becomes Venom.

Not a bad treatment for a cinematic Spider-Man/Venom Saga. I too would prefer to see Eddie Brock/Venom being re-introduced in a Spider-Man film, but I have doubt that Columbia would be able to restrain themselves from using the character for very long. Especially with word of there being interest in a Venom spin-off movie (though that front has been fairly quiet). Not sure if Marc Webb has ever made any substantial comment on what his opinion on Venom is, though I would be very interested. But yeah, having the antagonistic Parker/Brock relationship established in a film, prior to the symbiote bonding with Brock, would be great. Especially if the 616 continuity is the blue print where we get the older, flattop Eddie Brock (not Eddie Brock Jr. like in the Ultimate SM), who would, as his character progresses, becomes the 'Lethal Protector' that became a considerable part of the character.

I'm thinking we're at least two movies away; Norman osborn is being set up as a villain for the 3rd film and so Venom likely shouldnt be until the 5th film.

[johnnygobbs]

What does everyone feel about the casting for the second film so far?  Paul Giamatti as the Rhino, Jamie Foxx as Electro, Chris Cooper as Norman Osborne (and presumably a future Green Goblin) and Dane DeHaan as Harry Osborne?  Also, Colin Feore as a possible Adrian Toomes/future Vulture?

What do people think of the rumours regarding Shaliene Woodley being replaced as Mary Jane Watson?  I've got to say it strikes me as incredibly classless if the filmmakers are ditching her at this stage and replacing her with another actress.  I doubt it will do Ms Woodley's career any good and if the filmmakers had doubts about her initial casting as MJ they should have considered that to begin with, not after all the negative fanboy carping on forums started.  Personally, I hope it is simply a case of keeping back MJ's introduction for TASM 3 rather than an out-and-out replacement (although whether any of the in the can footage will still be usable in two years time or so I don't know bearing in mind that the actors involved may look different due to age etc by that time).  Also, I personally think the actress who is rumoured to now be replacing Woodley as MJ, Sarah Gadon would make a much better Felicia Hardy/potential Black Cat with the platinum hair, feline eyes and aristocratic look.  MJ is still the 'girl-next-door' and I think it makes more sense to cast a more 'down-to-earth' beauty like Woodley in the part rather than someone more ethereal looking even though I wasn't initially sold on Woodley's casting.

Also, I hope Felicity Jones is playing Betty Brandt or another undisclosed character rather than Felicia Hardy (the part she has so far been rumoured to be undertaking) since she doesn't give off the glamorous vibe of Felicia.

[The Laughing Fish]

^ I for one enjoyed The Amazing Spider-Man despite how unoriginal it was, but this sequel doesn't excite me one bit from what I've heard. It sounds like the story is crammed with too many characters, some coming across as even a bit too silly for my tastes (e.g. Rhino). And by the sound of cutting Mary-Jane Watson out of the story comes across as firing that actress; probably because of all those degenerates who complained about her on sites like comicbookmovie.com and so on. I don't believe she was relieved because of a tight schedule, lots of actors have busy schedules too but they still star in plenty of movies. If she comes and says she decided to leave then I'd be convinced.

[johnnygobbs]

^ I for one enjoyed The Amazing Spider-Man despite how unoriginal it was, but this sequel doesn't excite me one bit from what I've heard. It sounds like the story is crammed with too many characters, some coming across as even a bit too silly for my tastes (e.g. Rhino). And by the sound of cutting Mary-Jane Watson out of the story comes across as firing that actress; probably because of all those degenerates who complained about her on sites like comicbookmovie.com and so on. I don't believe she was relieved because of a tight schedule, lots of actors have busy schedules too but they still star in plenty of movies. If she comes and says she decided to leave then I'd be convinced.

Degenerates indeed.  Sad fanboys who have never touched a woman in their life would be another way of putting it.

Still, I hope Shailene Woodley is retained for TDSM3.  The latest news seems to suggest that she isn't getting replaced although it does seem rather careless of the filmmakers to find out this late into shooting that the second film doesn't have room for a character as significant as Mary-Jane.  Is this a symptom of release-date driven filmmaking where blockbuster films are rushed into production to meet a scheduled summer slot?