Doctor Who

[BatmAngelus]

There's already a backlash BatmAngelus?  I realise that Capaldi's casting had been heavily rumoured for the last three days or so but surely it's too soon after the official announcement for a 'backlash'...ahhh, the internet...

It's been rather small compared to the "Doctor WHO?!  He's too young!" backlash that Matt Smith got, but the negative comments I've read have either been:
- "Great, another white guy.  I wanted a woman/black guy/etc."
- "He's too old.  Isn't he supposed to be younger?"
- "This can't be.  He was already on the show.  And on Torchwood.  How will they make sense of it?!"

Sadly, none of these things have to do with the man's acting ability.  I've already addressed the first quibble.  The other complaints seem rather ignorant of the show's history and the character.  #2 in particular seems to be a complaint from fangirls who've been fawning over Tennant and Smith and were probably expecting another smooth-skinned, 20-30-something to fall in love with.  (Bet they've never seen any of the Hartnell episodes, haha).

#3 also comes from those who might not have realized that Colin Baker had appeared on the show before becoming the Sixth Doctor (and several companions had been part of the show as other characters before coming on fulltime, like Lalla Ward, Freema Agyeman, and Karen Gillan). 

I think it's actually a testament to Capaldi's talents that he's been asked to return to the Doctor Who universe for a third time, in the biggest way possible.

[The Dark Knight]

I would never, ever accept a black James Bond. Never, ever. It shouldn't even rate a mention with the casting agents. The character is a white male. People just have to accept it. The PC brigade can make their own character if they want, but leave Bond alone.

I wouldn't accept a female Doctor either. It would be an issue.

Among other things, it'd just be like "oh, so after 12 regens he's all of a sudden a she. Whatevs." Was that just some ultra-rare anomaly or something? *rolls eyes*

The die has been cast here as far as I am concerned. Again, the PC brigade can make their own character. This movement just seems to think they have to beat their drum loud and call out apparent populist slogans and people roll over. Nah, sorry.

They can make a komodo dragon regenerate into a pelican if they want. Doesn't mean I would like it.

The white male is possibly the most discriminated individual on the planet. They just have to sit there and cop it all on the chin. They can always accused of racism and such, but if it's the other way around, it doesn't seem to wash or rate a mention.

To be honest, I don't see much legit displeasure at Peter's casting. I can see him slipping into the role from day dot. And yes, he is the Doctor. I'm glad the template which was established in 1963 is being honoured to this day.

I hope he's more aloof and grumpier.

[BatmanFanatic93]

Well to be honest i'm always open for actors to play a role they want no matter the race they are i mean who are we to say a black actor can't play bond?Why should we be the judges if an actor can't play a role cause if he's black & the character is white or any other race? They got Laurence Fishburne to play Perry White in the man of steel & last time i checked perry was white in the comics yet they got Laurence Fishburne to play as him & while i found it odd for a change i accepted it cause i thought he was great in the role despite me not liking the man of steel much.Bottom line i believe any actor of any race can play a role they want despite the character's race only if they could do a good job in it.  i believe in equality

[The Dark Knight]

i mean who are we to say a black actor can't play bond?Why should we be the judges if an actor can't play a role cause if he's black & the character is white or any other race?

Ian Fleming. He created the character in 1953 and James Bond is a white male. It's got little to do with 'equality' and more to do with how things are. Just as Batman is a white American. Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be done. Especially with large icon characters, not incedental roles. Just as I wouldn't want Obama played by a white guy, because y'know, he is black. I'm sure a white guy could play the part, but that's beside the point. He shouldn't get a look in. And so it goes on.

All of a sudden we are fighting to maintain established norms. 'Equality' doesn't have to apply everywhere. I'm sick of it, but the war goes on.

[BatmanFanatic93]

*sigh*
i don't even have anything to say anymore on the subject cause i know how it's gonna go first it'll end up being a huge fight with people taking sides,name calling,& frankly i'm in no mood for it cause i believe in whats right & Equality that's all so if you have anything else to say go ahead & say it to me but please note i will not continue the convo cause of what i said above.

[The Dark Knight]

I believe in what's right too, hence my passion for preserving characters I love.

Anyway...here's to Peter Capaldi - and Matt Smith and David Tennant in the anniversary special. The Doctor's a funny guy, every one of him.

[johnnygobbs]

*sigh*
i don't even have anything to say anymore on the subject cause i know how it's gonna go first it'll end up being a huge fight with people taking sides,name calling,& frankly i'm in no mood for it cause i believe in whats right & Equality that's all so if you have anything else to say go ahead & say it to me but please note i will not continue the convo cause of what i said above.

Well I agree with you BatmanFanatic.

I'm rather taken aback at Dark Knight's 'the white man is the most discriminated group on the planet'.  Dark Knight's opinions are usually much more reasonable and levelled-headed than that.

Characters can change and develop over time.  The idea of a black British secret agent when Sir Ian Fleming write the James Bond novels was out of the question, and if the Bond films were authentic period movies set in the era when the books were written I'd certainly agree that Bond should be played by a white man.  But the films have always been contemporary movies set in the era they are made and consequently there is no reason why a modern-era Bond film shouldn't feature a black man in the role.

As it happens I still believe the definitive Bond as depicted by Fleming is yet to be depicted on screen (which is why I'd like to see Michael Fassbender take on the role next time out).  Neither Sean Connery nor Daniel Craig, two of the more successful Bonds if not the most successful Bonds really come close to embodying the character from the original novels either in appearance or demeanour.  Bond is a suave, dark-haired, effete upper-class bully.  By contrast, Connery and Craig project working-class, resourceful (and in Connery's case, cocky) swagger.

As for Dr Who, Dark Knight has still failed to give an adequate reason why the character couldn't in theory be played by a woman or a black actor other than it being 'tradition'.

[The Dark Knight]

That's my just opinion, gobbs. And I stick with it 100 per cent.

Every race and gender has something they can do/say to claim discrimination but white males have nothing. They're the only racist individuals according to the media. "You think I'm not good at my job so you're racist". Such a word is big accusation, and the white person has to cop it all on the chin. There is no way to prove or disprove such an accusation. And they come sometimes at the drop of a hat.

Double standards are at play. If a white is called a honkey or something like that, people laugh. It's all cool. Society is more about bending over backwards to please the minorities and be politically correct, at the expense others. It's ok to hate whites.

I do not make these claims lightly, gobbs. They are level headed. I don't just blurt stuff out. You have your view, I have mine. So you saying anything to the contrary about my opinion is just an insult. I don't agree with your stance, but you clearly have level headedly considered this.

And again, Bond isn't black. End of story. If people want a black agent, they are free to create a new character. And I believe Bond has been already been portrayed very well on screen. Sure, The Doctor could be played by a woman. There are good actresses out there. But I simply would not acknowledge it. You have failed to give a adequate reason as to why The Doctor should be a woman other than it hasn't been done before and other lefty, equality BS. Never ever.

Again, this is my opinion and it aint changing. I get deeply annoyed at people messing with established institutions. Like The Doctor being male, or Bond being white - deal with it and go tamper with something else.

Go and demand Superman be black and rile colors up or something.

[johnnygobbs]

I don't think it's a good idea to derail a discussion about Dr Who into a debate on political correctness and discrimination against the white man, although on the last matter I do agree at the very least that the issue of discrimination is a lot more complex than it simply being a case of society dumping on women and ethnic minorities in all situations.  However, in most situations and with all other factors being equal (social status, education, living environment, family background etc) a typical white man is going to be less discriminated than a typical black woman.  400 years of western slavery and less than 100 years of female emancipation will have that affect on society and it's still a fact today that women get paid significantly less than men for doing exactly the same work in many occupations.

I don't feel passionately about Superman, Bond or Dr Who being black or whatever.  However, unless there is a good reason why these roles should always be played by a white man (i.e. there is an aspect of their character that is defined by their race and gender) than I don't see why these roles cannot be open up to a wider range of actors of all races, and in some cases (i.e. Dr Who), actresses. 

I do think there are some iconic roles that are partly defined by their race.  I personally would have a hard time swallowing a black Batman for instance since the comic-books clearly define his alter-ego, Bruce Wayne, as a man of privilege with an upper-class old-money (i.e. White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) pedigree.  Although that type of patrician billionaire is increasingly becoming eroded from society and I dare say that Bruce could legitimately be the son of a mixed-race couple without losing his status as the descendent of one of Gotham's founding fathers, I still believe it makes sense, at least for the foreseeable future, for Batman to be cast as a convincingly aristocratic white man since that construct serves as simple, uncomplicated short-hand for Western privilege.

I think wherever non-conventional casting might hurt a particular character by making things too complicated, as in the example I just outlined or in the case of the upcoming 'Fantastic Four' reboot where there has been some discussion of casting a black actor and a white actress as (typically biological) siblings Johnny and Sue Storm respectively, it should be avoided and 'PC-considerations' should definitely be set-aside.  But I don't see why opening the parts of Superman and a modern-era James Bond to a black actor (is Krypton an entirely homogenous planet?) or Dr Who, a constantly regenerating extra-terrestrial, to a black, female or black female performer would hurt the character in anyway whatsoever.

[The Dark Knight]

You don't feel passionately about it, but others do. That's the thing. For example, over 90 percent of people voted NO to a female Doctor in a Doctor Who TV poll. Yet the vocal minority keeps shouting. I'm not the only one with this view. You have a hard time swallowing a black Batman. That does not make you racist, homophobic, sexist or any other label. It's just how you feel. Same with my stances. I feel major alterations like this take away the very core of the characters. Again with Who, the fact the Doctor has been male for over 900 years of his life would make a female regeneration nonsensical. The fact they are established white roles is the best and only reason this should rightly continue.