Batman Returns- Underated Classic or a Batman movie in name only

Started by Scarecrow756, Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 13:15

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Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 13:15 Last Edit: Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 13:23 by Scarecrow756
Hey guys, over the years there have been very mixed reviews over Batman Returns wheather its Jett from BOF saying its a Batman movie in name only or some other Bat fans saying its an underated classic so whats your verdict on Batman Returns?  IMO I think it is vastly underated and people saying Forever is better then it is just stupid to me. It has some great performances and its like a well crafted poem where everytime you read it or in this case you watch it you feel as though you have just found a new layer to it. This to me dertermines a good movie one where it stands really well on repeated viewings and makes you think long after the movie and not just forget about it once you have watched it, like Batman Forever. The movie also has my favourite Danny Elfman score to date its dark, moody and a tiny bit sinister. The acting is superb also, and this movie also to me presents the defintive Batman/Catwoman relationship on screen and if Nolan attempts to bring Catwoman in the next movie he is gonna have some work to compare to it to Pfeiffer/Keaton perfect onscreen chemistry. Anyways those are my thoughts on Batman Returns what are yours?
"Tell me something my friend, you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight"- The Joker- Batman 89

"I guess I`m tired of wearing masks"- Selina Kyle- Batman Returns

"But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely...a legend Mr Wayne"- Henri Ducard- Batman Begins

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian, I can do those things cause I`m not a hero not like Dent"- Batman- The Dark Knight
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 13:17 #1
Batman Returns is one of the purest Batman adaptions ever. Be it comic, film or animation. It's a classic, whether people want to accept that or not.
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 13:26 #2
I agree I think people just view it on what they see and don`t bother to think while watching it which is a problem people take it on face value, its not a summer blockbuster where your brain melts with action it causes you to think about the chracters, and situtions.
"Tell me something my friend, you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight"- The Joker- Batman 89

"I guess I`m tired of wearing masks"- Selina Kyle- Batman Returns

"But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely...a legend Mr Wayne"- Henri Ducard- Batman Begins

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian, I can do those things cause I`m not a hero not like Dent"- Batman- The Dark Knight
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 13:35 #3
i think its no less batman than any of the others are. batman has all kinds of different styles and none are definitive or whatever. its all opinion but we know you boys and your opinions. this world wouldn't have ever had wars if you dorks could respect each other's opinion.

its my favorite cause it just kind of calls to me more than i think i realized when i put batman forever as my fave. i have to be in the right mood to watch returns but when i am, there's no greater film to me.
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 18:18 #4
Quote from: Catwoman on Thu, 15 Oct  2009, 13:35
i have to be in the right mood to watch returns but when i am, there's no greater film to me.

Great comment Catwoman.
Johnny Gobs got ripped and took a walk off a roof, alright? No big loss.
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 20:55 #5 Last Edit: Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 20:59 by thecolorsblend
Like so many armchair experts, a considerable portion of BOF'ers have weighed Batman Returns in the balance and found it wanting.  A common refrain is "it's a good FILM but it's not a good BATMAN film," which I personally find patronizing as hell.

If your basis of comparison revolves around the Denny O'Neil (or later) period, your rubric is completely off-kilter.  Sorry but there's really no nice way to phrase it.

Compared to the early Kane/Finger issues of Detective Comics, I find that both Burton films are very faithful to "the comics".  The overall mood and tone of the films match up with the comics and are practically in lock step with them.  There are other comics influences, to be sure, (TDKR and TKJ) but I find the clearest and straightest line to be the first year of Kane/Finger on Detective.

BR is a tapestry of wonderful music, casting, peformances, production design, effects, etc.  I won't sit here and tell you guys it's a flawless film (the script has a few fits and starts, for example) but many of it's warts are no more egregious than you find in numerous other films (not least of which being Nolan's own Batman films).

As film, it's a pure joy.  As a Batman adaptation, I find very few flaws with it.

It does depart from the comics in certain key ways.  Selina is neither a flight attendant or a hooker.  Frankly, I don't count that as a loss.  The Penguin is actually a lot more faithful to the comics than he's given credit for.  Burton took the character from the comics and gave him a few extra features so as to allow him to carry a movie's narrative demands.  The yearning the Penguin has had for high society is present in BR, and, for my money, is all the more poignant considering his origins, his deformations and his choices.

Batman kills in BR.  And ya know what?  I don't have a problem.  Frankly, I find it fits the psychological profile of a guy who takes every single other matter of law enforcement and criminal investigation into his own hands.  Drawing the line at killing some of his adversaries may appease the Comics Code but I've never thought it suited the character.  Would Batman kill a random purse-snatcher?  No.  Would he whack the Joker?  You better believe it.  I'm not interested in having a debate on this, I'm simply saying that a killing Batman works just fine for me.

As far as I'm concerned, the Burton films can take their place alongside BTAS, the Nolan films and other adaptations as a proud part of Batman's extra-comics exploits.
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 21:05 #6
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 15 Oct  2009, 20:55
As far as I'm concerned, the Burton films can take their place alongside BTAS, the Nolan films and other adaptations as a proud part of Batman's extra-comics exploits...

...except Batman and Robin.   ;D
Johnny Gobs got ripped and took a walk off a roof, alright? No big loss.
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 21:18 #7
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Thu, 15 Oct  2009, 21:05
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 15 Oct  2009, 20:55
As far as I'm concerned, the Burton films can take their place alongside BTAS, the Nolan films and other adaptations as a proud part of Batman's extra-comics exploits...
...except Batman and Robin.   ;D
Well, I didn't say all other adaptations.  And I'd throw both Schumacher films into the "not proud" category.
Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 23:26 #8 Last Edit: Thu, 15 Oct 2009, 23:42 by Scarecrow756
*Warning Rant in this Post*


::) Funny Jett says this about Batman Forever "In fact, it may the best at staying true to the comic book spirit of Batman than any of the Burton/Schumacher films"

I agree with you completly colour on your thoughts on Batman Returns, I am frankly tired of this patronising edge some of the people on BOF carry regarding Batman Returns espically Jett. I don`t mind if you dislike it but he seems to hate it with a firery passion that when ever is a time to mention how much he hates it and then to call in the worst of the genre next to Batman and Robin is plain stupid. In addition saying people don`t like Forever because of thier nosloegic love or attachment for B89 and BR what a load of tosh.To be honest fans like them because they are awesome movies and great Batman films. For someone who claims to unite the fans under one website he does a bad job of it. Even some of his contributers (Not PJ, PJ is awesome) seem like idiots like I was listening to one of the podcasts, the Watchmen roundtable and Jett says I like the movie ending better then the book ending and one of them don`t remember their names just says in a immature voice saying "You don`t know the comics man you don`t know" as though he was trying to be a Watchmen fanboy >:(

*Rant Over*

I also too put the Burton movies up there with TAS and the Nolan movies, why can`t people accept more then one person gets the chracter spot on and have a need to take sides.
"Tell me something my friend, you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight"- The Joker- Batman 89

"I guess I`m tired of wearing masks"- Selina Kyle- Batman Returns

"But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely...a legend Mr Wayne"- Henri Ducard- Batman Begins

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian, I can do those things cause I`m not a hero not like Dent"- Batman- The Dark Knight
Fri, 16 Oct 2009, 00:48 #9 Last Edit: Fri, 16 Oct 2009, 00:53 by ral
Discussing fan reaction to Batman Returns is fine but I don't think it is fair to rant about individuals opinions when they are not here to respond themselves. BOF may not hold Batman Returns in high regard but that's common knownledge and doesn't need to be dragged out here.  We love BR here  ;D

And yes...PJ is awesome  ;)
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