20 Things You Somehow Missed In Batman Returns

[Silver Nemesis]

Here's another Batman Returns video that's appeared on YouTube over the past few days.

Fans on this site will already know all this stuff, but a few points are worth correcting.

15) The narrator says that the members of the Red Triangle Gang were canonically inspired by the Joker. The newspaper Bruce reads concerning earlier Red Triangle Gang activity makes reference to "an aquatic bird boy", implying that Oswald was only a youth when those crimes took place. That would suggest that the Red Triangle Gang's earliest trip to Gotham predates the Joker's reign of terror, or even Batman's debut, so I don't see how they could have been inspired by Napier.

10) The "hot time on the cold town" line is not Selina referencing the Joker. Both characters were referencing a famous 1896 ragtime song. Also, the line isn't exactly the same in both films as the narrator claims. The Joker accurately quotes the lyrics by saying "old town" while Selina changes the quote to "cold town".

6) The narrator cites the old criticism of Alfred letting Vicki into the Batcave in the 1989 movie. This never bothered me, since by that point in the story Vicki had already figured out that Bruce was Batman and went to stately Wayne Manor to confront him about it. She realises he's Batman during the scene where she and Knox are looking at the newspaper report on the Wayne murders, as Burton himself confirms in the following interview (at the 3:03 mark).

Perhaps Alfred should have called Bruce up to the manor instead of taking Vicki down to the Batcave. At any rate, it isn't the monumental betrayal of trust some critics paint it as, since Vicki already knew Bruce's secret.

2) The narrator says that Shreck's electrocution was originally conceived as a way of scarring Harvey Dent. While Burton and his writers did consider including Dent during the early stages, he was never featured in any of Daniel Waters' drafts. Waters himself debunked this particular myth during an interview with Diabolique Magazine back in August. From the 28 minute mark.

"I read some of these deep, deep articles and they make a big deal of like 'oh, we were going to have Billy Dee Williams do this and do this' and, like, I mean, I think it was like an afternoon like 'hey, should I have a scene where Billy Dee Williams gets in an accident, is scarred and flips a coin?' [...] We thought about it a couple of days and were like nah, let's not do that. So it really wasn't a big part."

https://diaboliquemagazine.com/episode-13-a-conversation-with-daniel-waters/

1) The narrator says that the $250,000 spent on the final shot was 5% of the film's budget. Batman Returns' budget was $80 million. 5% of $80 million is $4 million. $250,000 would be about 0.3%.

I dig the idea of Max's animal totem being a rat. The German actor Max Schreck modelled his body language on a rodent when he portrayed Count Orlok in Nosferatu (1922), so that was an interesting connection I'd not given much thought to before.

I also didn't know that the handwriting on Batman's note was Bob Kane's.

[BatmanFurst]

6) The narrator cites the old criticism of Alfred letting Vicki into the Batcave in the 1989 movie. This never bothered me, since by that point in the story Vicki had already figured out that Bruce was Batman and went to stately Wayne Manor to confront him about it. She realises he's Batman during the scene where she and Knox are looking at the newspaper report on the Wayne murders, as Burton himself confirms in the following interview (at the 3:03 mark).

I've pointed this out on several occasions. Idk why that plot point just flies over peoples heads. Even as a kid I understood that she had discovered his identity. There are moments in Batman 89 that are left vague or ambiguous, this is one of them. Another example is Batman dropping Napier into the Chemicals. We don't know if it was an accident or done purposely. Personally, I think it was an accident but a case could be made for the other side.

Fun fact about the scene with Vicki in the Batcave, in the 1989 Rolling Stone interview with Keaton it was revealed that having that scene take place in the Batcave was Keaton's idea. The scene was originally supposed to take place in Wayne Manor, but Keaton thought it'd be better to have Bruce feel more exposed in the Cave.

[Silver Nemesis]

Fun fact about the scene with Vicki in the Batcave, in the 1989 Rolling Stone interview with Keaton it was revealed that having that scene take place in the Batcave was Keaton's idea. The scene was originally supposed to take place in Wayne Manor, but Keaton thought it'd be better to have Bruce feel more exposed in the Cave.

That's another thing I didn't know!

I prefer the scene taking place in the cave. The way Vicki appears behind Bruce while he's sitting at the bat-computer evokes the unmasking scene in The Phantom of the Opera (1925), where Christine sneaks up on Erik as he plays the organ. In both scenes the female lead exposes the man behind the mask while he is at his most vulnerable: lost in his obsession as he sits in his subterranean lair. It also echoes the earlier scene in the cave between Batman and Vicki. You'd lose those connections if the conversation took place in stately Wayne Manor.

[thecolorsblend]

6) The narrator cites the old criticism of Alfred letting Vicki into the Batcave in the 1989 movie. This never bothered me, since by that point in the story Vicki had already figured out that Bruce was Batman and went to stately Wayne Manor to confront him about it. She realises he's Batman during the scene where she and Knox are looking at the newspaper report on the Wayne murders, as Burton himself confirms in the following interview (at the 3:03 mark).

I've pointed this out on several occasions. Idk why that plot point just flies over peoples heads. Even as a kid I understood that she had discovered his identity. There are moments in Batman 89 that are left vague or ambiguous, this is one of them. Another example is Batman dropping Napier into the Chemicals. We don't know if it was an accident or done purposely. Personally, I think it was an accident but a case could be made for the other side.

Fun fact about the scene with Vicki in the Batcave, in the 1989 Rolling Stone interview with Keaton it was revealed that having that scene take place in the Batcave was Keaton's idea. The scene was originally supposed to take place in Wayne Manor, but Keaton thought it'd be better to have Bruce feel more exposed in the Cave.

In defense of the doubters, I think the scene with Knox and Vicki is a bit open to interpretation. A lot of people seem to think that Vicki knew Bruce had serious problems and then the micro fiche showed her why, so she stormed over to stately Wayne Manor to comfort him while simultaneously demanding answers.

I suppose a compromise view might be that Vicki left the Globe not necessarily knowing that Bruce is Batman but not exactly being surprised either when Alfred took her into the cave since it's a logical extension of what Bruce's mindset would have to be considering his history.

Anyway. Point is, I see some wiggle room here.

[The Dark Knight]

Fun fact about the scene with Vicki in the Batcave, in the 1989 Rolling Stone interview with Keaton it was revealed that having that scene take place in the Batcave was Keaton's idea. The scene was originally supposed to take place in Wayne Manor, but Keaton thought it'd be better to have Bruce feel more exposed in the Cave.

That's another thing I didn't know!

I prefer the scene taking place in the cave. The way Vicki appears behind Bruce while he's sitting at the bat-computer evokes the unmasking scene in The Phantom of the Opera (1925), where Christine sneaks up on Erik as he plays the organ. In both scenes the female lead exposes the man behind the mask while he is at his most vulnerable: lost in his obsession as he sits in his subterranean lair. It also echoes the earlier scene in the cave between Batman and Vicki. You'd lose those connections if the conversation took place in stately Wayne Manor.

Goes to show just how much Keaton felt the character. The important distinction is that it's Batman handing over the files, not Bruce Wayne. So we need to be in his base of operations. And it's funny because I did a post about this just the other day, saying Batman would rather communicate somewhere he feels the most comfortable and in control. This conduct was commonplace in the 66 show, such as bringing P.N. Guin back to the batcave for further investigation. It feels natural for Batman to do this either in light or dark portrayals.