Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[thecolorsblend]

Here is a video by Film Gob accusing Endgame of copying the ending of BvS.

I think he's being a bit unfair to dismiss the arc reactor with the engraving of "Proof that Tony Stark has a heart". That was a callback to the first Iron Man film.

But apart from that, I can't really deny that the similarities are too much to be a coincidence. The Russos did admit that Civil War was made because of BvS, after all.

Shady, shady Hollywood.

If the Russos had a cleaner slate, I'd be tempted to put everything down to a coincidence. Because with some of those dramatic beats, there are only so many ways to skin that cat. But (A) they don't have a clean record and (B) those camera angles are awfully specific.

Still, if that video accomplishes nothing else, it does a great job of exhibiting BVS's big screen-friendly cinematography compared to Endgame's iPhone-friendly cinematography. So there's one drastic difference right there.

[Travesty]

I need to rewatch this movie. What they did to Thor and Hulk were so damn stupid, I couldn't go back to it.

Maybe I'll get to it sometime soon?

[The Laughing Fish]

I'm not saying Hulk was good in Endgame, but I couldn't stand him in Infinity War. Terrible characterisation, terrible performance by Mark Ruffalo. One of the biggest reasons why I really didn't like that movie. The writing is terrible and strays away from the Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde appeal of the character to the point he has become a jokey parody. Even the Hulk's CGI isn't even up to par compared to Avengers 2012 and AOU. I'm aware that the Professor Hulk look is a homage to the comics, but I wasn't too impressed with how it was done in Endgame.

It seems to me the MCU dumbed him down for two reasons: 1) comedy relief under the Marvel banner sells, and 2) there are complications in making another solo Hulk film without Universal, which I heard still co-own the rights.

[BatmanFurst]

I'm not saying Hulk was good in Endgame, but I couldn't stand him in Infinity War. Terrible characterisation, terrible performance by Mark Ruffalo. One of the biggest reasons why I really didn't like that movie. The writing is terrible and strays away from the Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde appeal of the character to the point he has become a jokey parody. Even the Hulk's CGI isn't even up to par compared to Avengers 2012 and AOU. I'm aware that the Professor Hulk look is a homage to the comics, but I wasn't too impressed with how it was done in Endgame.

It seems to me the MCU dumbed him down for two reasons: 1) comedy relief under the Marvel banner sells, and 2) there are complications in making another solo Hulk film without Universal, which I heard still co-own the rights.

Finally, yes Mark Ruffalo is pretty bad in Infinity War. It doesn't even feel like the same character from the first and second Avengers films.

[thecolorsblend]

I'm not saying Hulk was good in Endgame, but I couldn't stand him in Infinity War. Terrible characterisation, terrible performance by Mark Ruffalo. One of the biggest reasons why I really didn't like that movie. The writing is terrible and strays away from the Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde appeal of the character to the point he has become a jokey parody. Even the Hulk's CGI isn't even up to par compared to Avengers 2012 and AOU. I'm aware that the Professor Hulk look is a homage to the comics, but I wasn't too impressed with how it was done in Endgame.

It seems to me the MCU dumbed him down for two reasons: 1) comedy relief under the Marvel banner sells, and 2) there are complications in making another solo Hulk film without Universal, which I heard still co-own the rights.

Finally, yes Mark Ruffalo is pretty bad in Infinity War. It doesn't even feel like the same character from the first and second Avengers films.

I think it's interesting that barely anybody even mentions the Norton Banner. If you squint, the first Avengers Banner has some mild continuity with Norton's version. But from that point on, it's like the character has gotten invisibly retconned to such a level that I think it's fair to ask if Leterrier's TIH is even canon anymore.

Weirdest of all, TIH has aged better than nearly all the MCU films.

[Travesty]

I've always liked TIH.

[The Joker]

I need to rewatch this movie. What they did to Thor and Hulk were so damn stupid, I couldn't go back to it.

Maybe I'll get to it sometime soon?

I went ahead and purchased this when it came out on bluray (have all the other MCU movies, so might as well ... being a completionist will do that), but have had virtually no desire to re-watch the film whatsoever.

If I had to pick between what is the better film; Infinity War, or Endgame? I would have to go with Infinity War and it's not even close. Endgame simply had too many cringe inducing scenes, portrayals/characterizations that do nothing but signify what we already know. These are superhero action comedies, and have been for quite some time. Especially post-2012. Where the comedy, outside of perhaps a very select few examples, really seemed to get ramped up (Whedon effect?).

It's a formulaic, comedic, extremely family friendly approach that obviously works well with general MCU audiences (and not so much with the Star Wars audience .... no matter how many 'yo mamma jokes they want to throw in), but I personally found it to be a increasingly monotonous style of approach to storytelling. Especially by the time we finally got to IW/EG. Where I was basically all but completely detached from the story line being presented. And to which why I always appreciated, specifically in the 2010's, the worthwhile X-Men films under FOX, the DCEU (more with Snyder and Jenkins, less so with others), Dredd, some of the Sony Spider-Man and Spider-Man related films, and the Netflix Daredevil seasons. Where moments of levity are present, but the overall approach to storytelling is committed to being consequential, and isn't looking to consistently break the tone and give the audience a chuckle every 5 minutes or so.

Basically anything to break the monotony.

[The Laughing Fish]

I think it's interesting that barely anybody even mentions the Norton Banner. If you squint, the first Avengers Banner has some mild continuity with Norton's version.

If memory serves me right, the only in-continuity reference Avengers 2012 had was when Ruffalo's Banner commented about "breaking Harlem", which was a nod to the final battle with the Abomination at the end of TIH. There was another reference to the deleted scene of Norton's Banner attempting to commit suicide.

The only discrepancy Avengers makes is Ruffalo goes on to say he tried to put a bullet in his mouth, "and then the Other Guy spat it out". I heard that Whedon loved the deleted scene so much that he wanted to write it back into continuity as much as possible. What an edgelord.

But from that point on, it's like the character has gotten invisibly retconned to such a level that I think it's fair to ask if Leterrier's TIH is even canon anymore.

As time goes on, continuity got very loose. The only thing that connects TIH with present day MCU Hulk is William Hurt playing Ross again. But aside from him, there's nothing else. Betty Ross is simply forgotten about, and Norton and Ruffalo play the character as two different people. And no, this has nothing to do with character development either.

Weirdest of all, TIH has aged better than nearly all the MCU films.

I'd definitely take TIH over any Avengers sequel any day. This is what I don't understand about fanboys who brag about how perfect the MCU is. They say that, and argue the DCEU should've followed the Marvel formula of standalone films first and then team-ups later - but then they turn around and play down the importance of the Phase 1 films. In most cases, they outright dismiss them, aside from Iron Man and Avengers. It goes to show how they're so full of it. Bandwagon rubbish.

[thecolorsblend]

Without putting too fine a point on anything, I get the idea that a lot of MCU fans are considering this the end of the line for their own participation in the series. People are suggesting that the MCU from here on in could be diminishing returns.

I'm not predicting anything. I haven't even seen the movie. But based on the spoilers you posted, it sounds like a lot of fundamentals about the MCU will change in a big way going forward and it's reasonable to ask how much that could affect the Marvel brand.

This seems to be happening. The biggest MCU fan I know absolutely adored Infinity War but came away somewhat let down by Endgame. He broadly enjoyed it but he has serious problems with how certain character arcs got wrapped up. He's not calling it a dud, exactly, but he does admit he's not really all that satisfied with how things turned out.

It's been over a year at this point. In theory, he's got hindsight working in his favor at this point. But he hasn't budged. Not one inch.

Apart from him, the general consensus seems to be "I loved the MCU!" Past tense. It's a thing that has concluded. Yeah, more stuff may be coming but the REAL meat was from 2008-2019. A lot of people are expressing attitudes similar to that.

In comics, DC has been careful to never give a true ending to characters. They dabbled with that with Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow? back in the 1980s and they mostly got away with it. The contingent of Superman fans who bowed out after WHTTMOT were more than made up for with the massive influx of new readers attracted to Byrne's revamp. But since then, DC has been wary about concluding characters, especially big ones.

Because there's a chance that if you conclude the story, some number of readers won't come back for whatever comes next.

I don't know if Marvel Studios will be immune to that. But the sense I get from a lot of people is that Marvel could never make another movie again because Endgame was the ultimate for them. Anything after that will be a letdown on some level.

Again, I'm not predicting anything. But the MCU wrapped up a lot of characters and storylines when credits rolled for Endgame. It's a bit ridiculous to think that at least a few people haven't had their fill of the MCU yet. We'll see, I guess. Just don't be too surprised if future Marvel movies don't necessarily hit the same numbers that Marvel hit from 2015-2019.