Batman and Catwoman's relationship

[The Laughing Fish]

Does anybody else feel that Batman and Catwoman's premature romantic relationship is the most complicated and tragic out of all superhero films?

Here in BR, we have two very disturbed people who only find relief in their lives by becoming costumed freaks, based on animals of course. Both find themselves feeling very awkward in social situations, and both adopted their costumed identities based on personal tragedy and revenge - Bruce Wayne losing his parents to Jack Napier, and Selina Kyle losing her sanity once she survived that whole Max Schreck ordeal.

Both people are drawn to each other's mysteriousness, and carry the scars of their fights (as seen when they kiss each other at Wayne Manor). When the two discover their true identities, they have a lot of questions to ask, but they are robbed of the chance because of the Penguin situation. Besides, unless I'm drawing a blank at the moment, when was the last superhero film that had a romance between the hero and the villain?

To me, the saddest part about the ending of BR is not only that Batman and Catwoman couldn't be together, but it's that Batman never knew why Catwoman wanted to murder Schreck so badly. For the first time in his life, Batman saw somebody he cared about tearing themselves apart, and his concern for Selina's troubled state of mind made him ask her not to take revenge, and to spend their lives together at Wayne Manor instead. I reckon that him telling her "We're the same. Split down to the center" is his twisted realization that he truly found a kindred spirit. 

In my opinion, this is the saddest doomed love story in live action comic film adaptations.

[Edd Grayson]

I agree with your points, and I don't know if Bruce and Selina were really meant for each other even if they were similar, I remember how she ultimately despiseda happy ending in a "castle like in the fairy tales ". But it is a doomed love story, Michelle Pfeiffer's acting was spectacular and she really had great chemistry with Keaton, both as Selina and Bruce and Catwoman and Batman.

Perphaps it's a reason why they decided to keep Catwoman alive in the end, as well as to ensure that Michelle Pfeiffer could play her again. But that was never concluded, sadly.

[thecolorsblend]

Neither of them are all that stable. The very thing that attracts them to each other is what will always stand in the way of their happily ever after. There are solid arguments why Batman should've stuck with Vicki or Chase based upon the premise of each of those movies. But it's easy to see why he'd never be able to stick with Catwoman.

Oddly enough, Batman & Robin is the only other live action Batman film to articulately argue why Bruce can never settle down.

[Catwoman]

"He makes me feel the way I hope I really am..."

In spite of the humor of the frenzy Bruce and Selina are both in and the idea of dear old Alfred coming up with a dirty limerick, I always feel my heart crack a little and a tear sting my eyes at this line because of the false hope. Thinking of it and connecting it with "I just couldn't live with myself, so don't pretend this is a happy ending!" will shatter you. Or at least it shatters me. It is one of the most poignant lines in the entire movie and sets up their tragic parting of ways more than any other line spoken. You never see it on lists of best quotes from the movie or whatever but to me it is one of the most important.

Their relationship (in terms of sustainability) is best used in running mediums like comics or the animated series because it is far too complex to survive in the confines of a single movie. They have to break up to make up and for the Bat to start chasing the Cat again. It's what makes it fun and a total fan favorite (I would be shocked if she ever lost a "favorite love interest" poll). That said, I don't think it has ever been portrayed better than in the movie, despite it's inevitable ill fate.

It was so beautifully done, and with no disrespect to Michael at all, you can pin that on Michelle. She played hope and heartbreak as well as anyone and it is so ridiculous that her performance is still a "cult favorite" instead of having it's place as one of the greatest performances of all time. Critics are fools.

[Edd Grayson]

You're right, Catwoman, they have to break up somehow and fight again and still have the feelings in order for this relationship to remain iconic.

"I just couldn't live with myself, so don't pretend this is a happy ending!" is one of the most heartfelt lines I ever heard. It reminds us that fairy tale happy endings aren't really what happens in real life, not even in Batman's world.

Michelle was awesome in this movie and I'd say that she's the definitive Catwoman actress.

[The Laughing Fish]

"He makes me feel the way I hope I really am..."

In spite of the humor of the frenzy Bruce and Selina are both in and the idea of dear old Alfred coming up with a dirty limerick, I always feel my heart crack a little and a tear sting my eyes at this line because of the false hope. Thinking of it and connecting it with "I just couldn't live with myself, so don't pretend this is a happy ending!" will shatter you. Or at least it shatters me. It is one of the most poignant lines in the entire movie and sets up their tragic parting of ways more than any other line spoken. You never see it on lists of best quotes from the movie or whatever but to me it is one of the most important.

Absolutely. Some people will try to dismiss this by saying "how could Bruce and Selina really fall for each other if they only knew one another for a week", but I think they missed the point. Yes, normally it would be very hard to believe two people would fall in love so quickly in only a matter of days, but Bruce and Selina aren't normal. Like I said before, they resembled each other in a lot of ways. Besides, Batman going so far by ripping off his mask during his desperate plea for her to stop her murderous rage had to have been motivated by some genuine love for her. You'd be hard pressed to argue otherwise.

Their relationship (in terms of sustainability) is best used in running mediums like comics or the animated series because it is far too complex to survive in the confines of a single movie. They have to break up to make up and for the Bat to start chasing the Cat again. It's what makes it fun and a total fan favorite (I would be shocked if she ever lost a "favorite love interest" poll). That said, I don't think it has ever been portrayed better than in the movie, despite it's inevitable ill fate.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I tend to enjoy Catwoman as the sexy thieving smartass that we see in comics, games and films nowadays, but I don't think that sort of tragic ending could've worked with that version of the character. In this case, it's always believable that Batman could let her go if she wouldn't change her criminal ways.

It was so beautifully done, and with no disrespect to Michael at all, you can pin that on Michelle.

I agree with you and Edd that Pfeiffer is still the best Catwoman actress to date. But the chemistry she had with Keaton was crucial to make their on-screen relationship work for the audience. If they weren't up to their acting chops, the film would've been poorer in quality.

She played hope and heartbreak as well as anyone and it is so ridiculous that her performance is still a "cult favorite" instead of having it's place as one of the greatest performances of all time. Critics are fools.

Whether Pfeiffer's performance is one of the best of all time or not belongs to another thread, but then again, when was the last time that any actress played a role with such intensity in a male-dominated genre like comic book films?

And yes, critics are fools. But the bigger fools are people who need to validate their taste in films by boasting how critics gave something good reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. That too belongs to another thread though.

[Dagenspear]

Absolutely. Some people will try to dismiss this by saying "how could Bruce and Selina really fall for each other if they only knew one another for a week", but I think they missed the point. Yes, normally it would be very hard to believe two people would fall in love so quickly in only a matter of days, but Bruce and Selina aren't normal. Like I said before, they resembled each other in a lot of ways. Besides, Batman going so far by ripping off his mask during his desperate plea for her to stop her murderous rage had to have been motivated by some genuine love for her. You'd be hard pressed to argue otherwise.

I think it was mainly motivated by Bruce's own emotional desperation to save her because of their similarities.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

[Wayne49]

I really saw Bruce and Selina's relationship has a connection in deficits, rather than a bonding of strengths. Their duality may have been (on the surface) a way for them to relate, but ultimately what drove them to those individual measures were from opposite ends of intent.  Bruce Wayne/Batman was fighting against the network of crime and evil that took his parents. Selina/Catwoman exists in a more ambiguous world. In the Burton interpretation there are so many motivations that range from very strong feministic statements to fundamental issues about morality as it pertains to the weak and disadvantaged. But it all plays on a very jaded emotion for Selina, not so much a commitment to a principle or discipline such as Batman. On the surface, they may seem more relatable in costume, but they probably couldn't be more opposite as the people who reside underneath. So while Catwoman might find herself in a situation where she saves a woman from a mugger, she's just as quick to demean her for allowing herself to be in those circumstances by assuming a man (or Batman) would be there to save her. So she is very conflicted and judgmental regarding parties on both sides of a common conflict.

[Cobblepot4Mayor]

You're right, Catwoman, they have to break up somehow and fight again and still have the feelings in order for this relationship to remain iconic.

"I just couldn't live with myself, so don't pretend this is a happy ending!" is one of the most heartfelt lines I ever heard. It reminds us that fairy tale happy endings aren't really what happens in real life, not even in Batman's world.

Michelle was awesome in this movie and I'd say that she's the definitive Catwoman actress.

What's special about her performance now is I never realized at the time just how special she was to begin with! You took these early Batman films and performances for granted at the time as kids. But the image I can't get out of my head is her debut in the alleyway: "Always waiting for some Batman to save you"....That moment is a cinematic triumph. Just look at how spectacular she looks in that closeup! Sexy and actually scary (Michelle is the only Catwoman I do on occasion find myself fearing).

I defy anybody to tell me that Anne Hathaway is a better Catwoman after a single moment like that. I really do pity the fools who can't see the magic I see in that single shot. It's a total insult to even say she's on a "respectful" equal footing with Michele. She's nothing of the sort let me tell you!

[Wayne49]

You're right, Catwoman, they have to break up somehow and fight again and still have the feelings in order for this relationship to remain iconic.

"I just couldn't live with myself, so don't pretend this is a happy ending!" is one of the most heartfelt lines I ever heard. It reminds us that fairy tale happy endings aren't really what happens in real life, not even in Batman's world.

Michelle was awesome in this movie and I'd say that she's the definitive Catwoman actress.

What's special about her performance now is I never realized at the time just how special she was to begin with! You took these early Batman films and performances for granted at the time as kids. But the image I can't get out of my head is her debut in the alleyway: "Always waiting for some Batman to save you"....That moment is a cinematic triumph. Just look at how spectacular she looks in that closeup! Sexy and actually scary (Michelle is the only Catwoman I do on occasion find myself fearing).

I defy anybody to tell me that Anne Hathaway is a better Catwoman after a single moment like that. I really do pity the fools who can't see the magic I see in that single shot. It's a total insult to even say she's on a "respectful" equal footing with Michele. She's nothing of the sort let me tell you!

I agree. To date, this is the finest interpretation of Catwoman. It studies her psychosis as much as it celebrates the reasoning behind her appearance. Without question, it is a respectful celebration of the comic book character. That is something I will always give Burton enormous props for. He always understands how to tackle the mythology of these characters. He really has a unique gift for capturing that world by crafting a surrealism that compliments all the components that make these characters fascinating.