"How Batman Really Began- Comic Canon vs. Nolan"

[The Dark Knight]

I still think its too late for him now.

Basically. Learning on the job while being Batman isn't acceptable. All of that should have been covered in Batman Begins. But if Wayne is to start his gadget building journey, it's the best Nolan can offer.

On the other hand, he doesnt have to learn it. Fox can do it for him and even if not,m theres still plenty of military toys lying around in Wayne Enterprises. Plus, its impossible to learn so late and in a short time such advanced technology from scratch.

Yeah...there's plenty of toys lying around. I think TDKR will force Bruce's hand in that regard. Tumblers and other equipment are stolen from his company. People probably assume the wanted murderer Batman has funded/supplied these terrorists. After that, I can see Bruce becoming paranoid and prepared ala the comics. Having all of his gear stored in the batcave at least. So it's all contained. And if he ever attempts development himself, he could have full creative control. But yeah, becoming an instant technological genius would be a huge leap in logic.

[ElCuervoMuerto]

Nolan's Batman has all the techno and chemical work done and delivered by Lucius. Not bashing, I love Nolan's Bats but thats how it is

I think something has to change there. Perhps Lucius can meet an untimely end, and Bruce then resolves to take on equipment building himself. And by the end of TDKR, he's the final product.

But still, such engineering skills like that cannot be learned in months. It must be learned in years and years since youth, like in the comics and presumably in Burton's movies. The Nolan's Batman is basically an angry and buff guy with no technical, chemical or detective skills (every case and clue he solves with Lucius' toys). I dont know why but I havent realized it before

I would very much disagree with saying Batman had no technical or detective skills in the Nolan films. While he didn't build most things from scratch, he heavily modified the equipment Fox gave him in Begins to suit his own needs (he made the armor into the Batsuit, molded the memory cloth into the cape, assemble the cowl from different parts, etc). They also show him building his own batarangs. In TDK he re-programed the sonar project to track the Joker. In TDK he also used forensics to get prints from the Joker's lackeys from that shell casing. And in TDKR (not one of my favorite Bat-films admittedly) it's implied that he worked on the reactor project himself. So while they may not show as much detective/technical work as in the comics, it's definitely precent.

As for the tread topic at had, I definitely gotta sit down one of these days and read it. This is what I love about this place, it's like you guys have multiple Phd's on Batman. 

[greggbray]

TDK demonstrated his detective skill, I really don't have any doubt about it there.

That being said, I would have liked if BB included some more 'detective in training.'  Of course the martial arts training is important, Batman needs to know how to fight.  Theatricality, etc., are all part of the game.  But I wouldn't have minded just a little detective work in there.  It could have easily tied into 'mind your surroundings,' ie--seeing details that other people missed. 

[BatmAngelus]

I'd say the first 15 minutes of TDKR demonstrated Bruce's detective skills the best (Me praising TDKR?  Yes, the world is ending...).  His deductions when meeting Selina Kyle for the first time plus his research into her background with the Batcomputer showed shades of the World's Greatest Detective.

How ironic that this all occurs when Bruce is NOT Batman.

[riddler]

Most people think of two different interpretations of the word detective; one being the sherlock holmes mastermind type looking for clues, analyzing and deducing 'this person did it'. The other more police oriented being going after those who did it, more interviewing brute witnesses and acting like a 'smart cop'

Batman in his truest form of 'worlds greatest detective' is a little of both. In the original series all the films except Batman forever showed Bruce/Batman down in the batcave looking for evidence, sitting back and examining the clues. With bale we see sprinkles of it;

-the famous hanging rooftop scene in Begins
-the beginning of the dark knight with him investigating the bank robberies
-the interrigation of the Joker
-the dark knight rises him in the bat cave researching selina and bane.

The dark knight was kind of a let down in the sense that Nolan indicated he'd use his detective skills more but he doesn't an awful lot. Now of course he's the only one to successfully track the Joker.

[Bobthegoon89]

What we got of an origin from Burton was pitch perfect, yo.

Ehh I liked it alot for sure, but the only origin we saw was his parents dying, and thats about it. Personally im glad we got what we got in 89 everything fits perfectly and I wouldnt change one thing about the film, if we never got that then we would've never gotten the origin story we got in Begins, which all around gives us two awesome different versions of Batman origins!

I agree with your opinion exactly! They could have done the whole origin from start to finish and contrary to belief they DID attempt it in earlier drafts. The reason they dumped it is because it seemed too close to Superman (they even had Tom Mankiewitz for cripes sake lol).

Starting the film off straight with Batman was more dramatic, exciting and bloody clever. It pulled the audience in immediately. Whereas now it all becomes so linear. The only attempt at the Batman 1 way was actually Daredevil! I think an all too familar superhero movie today is crying out for that kind of opening formulae (though we kinda got it in Thor too).

There is just one thing that bothers me about the two origins (and comics in fact too). In Begins Joe Chill clearly panicked and unintentionally killed the Wayne's whereas Jack Napier took great glee at blasting them to death. In the original comics by Bob Kane the murder was also clearly intended and then Frank Miller suggested in Dark Knight Returns that the gunman was also in a panic state.

Both are viable but my issue with the panic approach was it for me undermines Batman's whole motivation. If he understands and has sympathy for the gunman's actions where is his thirst for vengeance/justice??? Why not just rehabillitate criminals as a humanitarian type. If he however witnesses the horror of his parents death being a sick form of entertainment that to me justifies better a lifelong mission of revenge.

[The Dark Knight]

^ Good post, bobthegoon89. Makes a lot of sense from my point of view.

[Paul (ral)]

BatmAngelus you mentioned Detective Comics #0 in your comparisons.

I actualy pulled out that issue last week (Love Nolan's cover on it). There is a part where Bruce and Alfred are checking out the cave for the first time. Bruce has the suit on minus the cowl, cape and insignia - just like in Begins!