An oscar for Heath Ledger !!

[Sandman]

Nothing personal sport, but i have heard that.....ALOT from many different Nolanites they figure it somehow make's Heath superior . And yes his laugh was pretty awesome.

[The Dark Knight]

I don't see how it makes his version superior either. He put his heart and soul into the film, and he died a while after that. His performance and death have nothing at all to do with each other.

[The Dark Knight]

The Joker in modern comics does not behave the way Ledger's Joker did.  That's not open to debate, it's fact.  The comic book Joker has far greater resonance with Nicholson's portrayal.  This too is fact.  And like I said, my ego isn't at stake here.  If a superior portrayal of the Joker comes along (which I think BTAS in large part is better) I'm ready, willing and able to label it as such... but Ledger's simply isn't.  When it comes to live action, Nicholson's Joker is still top dog.  His character is the Joker; Ledger's character was Hannibal Lecter in makeup.  Ledger did a fantastic job and stole almost every scene he was in but he was the Joker pretty much in name only.

Why does Ledger?s Joker have to resemble the modern comic version?  I don?t see the logic in how that makes Ledger any lesser of a portrayal.

This Joker is based off Batman #1, a timeless tale that represents a realistic film Joker for today, no matter what the current comic Joker may be.

Ledger was the Joker through and through, and stole every scene he appeared in. Personally, the superior Joker has come along, Nicholson is now second dog in the film stakes. Many agree with me as well.

They are black and white. The comic book could be said to be Nicholson, and as a result not as effective. Ledger in comparison could be said to be the graphic novel version. Ledger is chilling and true to the very roots of the character, while Nicholson is tame in comparison.

[thecolorsblend]

Why does Ledger?s Joker have to resemble the modern comic version?  I don?t see the logic in how that makes Ledger any lesser of a portrayal.

He doesn't have to but with so much of the Nolan franchise's inspiration coming from comics published in the last twenty or so years, it's odd (but not in any way a dealbreaker) that Joker doesn't harmonize with them.

This Joker is based off Batman #1

Superficially, yes.  The problem is that the B#1 Joker played for profit.  He had no problem sowing chaos if it would serve his penchant for murder and robbery, but he was not in any way out to chaos just for the fun of it.  He played for profit and to settle personal grudges.

Ledger was the Joker through and through, and stole every scene he appeared in. Personally, the superior Joker has come along, Nicholson is now second dog in the film stakes. Many agree with me as well.

Many people also loved Talladega Nights.

The comic book could be said to be Nicholson, and as a result not as effective. Ledger in comparison could be said to be the graphic novel version.

? ? ?

[Paul (ral)]

shake en bake em!

[DocLathropBrown]

I want it noticed for posterity that the two "Nolanites" (for lack of a better term) started the comparison to Jack Nicholson, not the "Burtonites."

To bring Nicholson into the discussion was unnecessary. And it was the people who were anti-Nicholson who did it.

If you guys think Ledger's performance is so great, than it doesn't need defending. Trying to argue that someone else's opinion is wrong is f***ing retarded. This isn't Superherohype. And Ledger being better IS just your opinion, don't delude yourselves. No matter what you argue, it won't make you right.

Now, keep in mind, I'm not painting you guys the enemy (not trying to, anyway), but the extra hostility in this discussion was brought on because of you. INDEPENDANT of which Joker might be better, Ledger still doesn't deserve the Oscar. Was the performance as great as you guys feel it to be? I agree. But will it win? Nope.

People were just as impressed with Spider-Man 2 or Superman: The Movie, and they were snubbed at the Oscars. If Ledger gets one, it will be because of outside pressure. Regardless of whether the fanboys like TDK more than they did SM2 or STM ("But TDK is so much better than those!" doesn't hold up), the Academy views them all the same. To the academy, it's "comic book movie = not real art." And TDK isn't good enough to change that. Great critical and financial success doesn't change the truth of the matter.

And in my opinion, Ledger was just doing what any good actor does. The only other Batman-related performance I find comparable to it is Keaton's Batman, as Keaton's transformation is very much equatable to Ledger's transformantion. It's unfortunate that Ledger has passed, and his performance was very electrifying, astounding and all those other things..... but he was still just an actor. A great actor. If he was going to get an Oscar, it would have been over something like Brokeback Mountain. This performance of his is not up to Oscar standards. No performance in the Batman film series is.

I find the hostillity directed toward people who disagree with you (although, thecolorsblend is being hostile in return) is childish and doesn't belong here. That's behavior for SuperHeroHype. Not here. Although I agree with thecolorsblend's arguments, the hostility still needs to stop, and you're not helping, colors.

[DocLathropBrown]

And I also feel compelled to add that this over-the-top fonboyish love for TDK at the expense of appreciation of any other interpretation is souring my appreciation for TDK. Looks like I have to abandon ANOTHER forum because of this petty rivalry.

I don't want to be driven to hate TDK as I was BB. Not gonna happen. I'm outta here. I've said before that the two factions cannot exist in peace, and I've always believed it. Frankly, I find the "love Nolan at the expense of other interpretations" behavior sickening. And although it doesn't happen here (for now), I also can't stand the "Our movie of choice is better!" egotisim bullsh*t that most Nolanites pull. And then Burtonites get slammed for defending their prefurred films. Many Nolanites can't seem to believe that people could disgaree with them, and therefore become bigots. But in turn, I can't stand the rare Burtonite who tries to give it back to the Nolanites, the person who the Nolanites in-turn stereotype all Burtonites to be. With the exception of thecolorsblend, I can't think of any "Burtonites" who didn't enjoy TDK. But I'd be willing to bet that isn't what many Nolanites would be willing to believe.

The user "The Dark Knight" here isn't one of these "Nolanite" scum-suckers (although bringing a comparison of Jokers into this conversation was completely unnecessary and childish, it's something that just about every Nolanite does), but I'm leaving because eventually, the scummy ones WILL show up. I'm sick of feeling that I have to defend my right to prefer another director's interpretation, and there's too much of it starting around here already.

This is something that will never end in the Batman fanbase, because of the nature of the character. He will never stop having different interpretations.

It happens at Superherohype all the damned time and it's why I left. Nolanites can't discuss how much they loved the new stuff without bringing in the old stuff to say how inferior it is.  I don't care what anybody thinks. As an observer, I've seen endless times that the problem people in the fanbase are the Nolanites. Not every one of them, but easily 95% of them. If they didn't compare, there'd be no fighting. There wouldn't be the few Burtonites who bash in return if there was no comparison. Blame whoever you want, but the truth is that it all started with the Nolanites. They drew the battle lines. And they keep it going by trying to point the finger at Burtonites, then turning around and shoving their egos down everyone's throats.

As for where I fall, I'm a Batmanite, dammit I loved B89 and I loved TDK. But if prefurring Burton's movies makes me some kind of idiot that likes the wrong movie and makes me a "Burtonite, not a Batmanite" than so be it. I'm an enemy of the fanbase.

[Paul (ral)]

Nicholson is tame.....

wow, never heard anyone say that before!

Doc is right.  I seems that every few weeks, someone is having to step in and say "enough is enough" with the slagging.

I swear to feck, I may have to install an "In My Opinion" button!  The best thing to do is lock this thread, casue it's going nowhere now.