Definitive versions of the characters

[zDBZ]

Borrowed this from davebgray of Batman-on-Film.

Be it from comics, serials, TV, animation, movies, newspaper strips, video games, or otherwise - pick one (or meld several) that represent your definitive takes on the following characters:

- Batman (either in combat or as detective)
- Bruce Wayne (playboy)
- Robin (all of 'em)
- Alfred
- Gordon
- Batgirl/woman/assorted female sidekicks
- Joker
- Catwoman
- Riddler
- Penguin
- Scarecrow
- Freeze
- Poison Ivy
- Bane
- Two-Face
- Ra's al Ghul/Talia
- Killer Croc
- Mad Hatter
- Batmobile
- Wayne Manor/Batcave

And I'll start:

- Batman (either in combat or as detective): Give me the costume from Returns (with improved mobility), Keaton's voice (and minimalist use of it), the detective skills and overall consistency of character from TAS (and, from the larger DCAU, the way his relationships end and where he is in life as an old man), and the menace of Tim Sale's artwork. Speaking of Sale, he describes Batman on his website as "...just eight years old. I think in some ways he's the least mature character of them all." I think having just a touch of that quality helps the character.

- Bruce Wayne (playboy): I don't like the playboy Bruce. I honestly think the Burton/Keaton take is an improvement on the character. The playboy whose face is plastered all over town would IMO always have to contend with tabloids and gossip rags alluding (at the least) to the possibility that he's Batman. Hell, in Year One, Gordon and partner pretty much figure the whole thing out. A Bruce Wayne who is physically unremarkable, socially awkward and withdrawn, and rarely thought of by the press or townsfolk seems much more likely to get away with what he gets away with. And I think the fact that it's not all an act in the Burton films is an improvement too. I would say that, if the Burton/Keaton take had caught on in other media, I would have liked a gradual evolution into a more confident figure who's comfortable being in public, and carrying on the family's philanthropic legacy.

- Robin: Eh...I just don't get Robin, especially not in the Post-Crisis Batman. When he was introduced in the 40s, Batman had no one to talk to at all, so it at least made sense in technical, storytelling terms; having someone around to talk to gives Batman a probable reason to explain what's going on. But Post-Crisis, Alfred's always been there, so Batman has someone to talk to; why on Earth would he endanger a kid like that? Dark Victory came the closest to making sense, but "closest" isn't very close here. I loved the Teen Titans animated series when it was on, so I guess that counts as my "definitive" take on Robin. I could appreciate the character of Dick Grayson there without stopping to wonder how he fits in to Batman's world.
That said - if I were to have a Robin in there, I would combine the three main ones: he would have Dick Grayson's name and overall personality from the 70s (and a future as Nightwing and leader of the Teen Titans), the youth and optimism of Tim Drake from TAS, and an end to his career as Robin that would combine Jason Todd's fate with Tim Drake's from Return of the Joker.

- Alfred: The design of TAS, the personality of Gough, and a background including both medical training and some sort of role in Mi6.

- Gordon: Hmm...I do like Gary Oldman's performance, but I also like the older Gordon of TAS. Maybe something that fills the middle ground between them.

- Batgirl/woman/assorted female sidekicks: These characters make even less sense to me than Robin. If Barbara (Gordon's biological, only child) were wheelchair-bound from the start, and spent her whole career by Batman's side as Oracle, that could be interesting.

- Joker: I really don't think there's been a bad version of the Joker in film or TV. Aesthetically, I like Alex Ross's Joker with Nicholson's fashion sense, but in terms of personality: I like a Joker who's funny and scary. Someone who uses the gag weapons, but you're never sure if they're just gags or truly deadly. I like the "super sanity" concept of Arkham Asylum, I like how frightening Ledger could get, I like how amusing Jack and Caesar could get, and I love Mark Hammil's ability to do both. If I read certain comics from the 70s, I more or less get all of that, so I suppose the 70s Joker is my pick.

- Catwoman: Another tough one. I like the sense of fun Julie Newmar brought to the role (you get some of that in the early seasons of "The Batman," too). Michelle Pfeiffer turned in an amazing performance, I love her costume, and I like that she's blonde. Her relationship with Batman is my favourite part of Hush. I liked the handle Nolan had on her morality. Her social status in the early episodes of TAS was interesting. So give me a blonde Selina with the TAS social standing, a Catwoman with a Pfeiffer-esque costume and whose standard mode is a more light-hearted, playful one, like Newmar or the Tim Sale comic "Date Knight," but with the ability to make the dark turns seen in Returns or Rises. And a Selina/Cat who eventually moves into Hush territory with Bruce/Bat.

- Riddler: I kind of like "The Batman's" take on Riddler. Give that Riddler the first TAS costume and we're pretty close.

- Penguin: TAS struck a good balance between the earlier "gentleman of crime" with a bird fetish of the comics with the "outcast freak" elements Burton brought in. The first TAS design, Paul Williams' voice (and the overall personality he brought to it), with the mob boss angle worked in would be my definitive take.

- Scarecrow: I like the final TAS design, but I also like Loeb's penchant for having the character speak in nursury rhymes. Put those two together and we're in business.

- Freeze: TAS. Though I do find Ah-nohld quite entertaining

- Poison Ivy: Loeb/Sale. A great take on the character; the only one I find genuinely creepy.

- Bane: Not a big Bane fan. I suppose I'd say Nolan's take, as it was an improvement IMO, but that's relative here.

- Two-Face: I liked the "Big Bad Harv" concept from TAS. The cause of his split personality may need to be made more severe than a scuffle with a childhood bully to work outside a "kid's" show, but I really do think that's an improvement on the comics. The transition from Harvey to Two-Face in Dark Knight is actually a relative weak spot in that film IMO. Once he becomes Two-Face, I'd say my favourite take is The Long Halloween.

- Ra's/Talia: The original Ra's al Ghul story is fantastic. He's a character who I think may be a tad overused now. I imagine him in that original story with Neeson's voice. I don't like Talia at all.

- Killer Croc: Meh...the idiot looked down on by the rest of the villains from TAS was kind of fun.

- Mad Hatter: His initial appearance in TAS was nice, but that characterisation didn't really hold up in later episodes. The Loeb/Sale take had some menace to him, but was underdeveloped. This guy could use some work.

- Batmobile: Burton's.

- Wayne Manor/Batcave: Batman Returns.

[The Dark Knight]

I'll start with a few:

Batman: My ideal version: The lone wraith who scarcely speaks from the Burton verse. The ultra-violence of All Star Batman and Robin. The distrust, suspicion and prep time of Tower of Babel. The chip on the shoulder of TDK Returns.

Alfred: The gentleman's gentleman of Michael Gough pretty much is my Alfred. Though I liked the 60s and BTAS' Alfreds who would help out in the field if needed.

Joker: Overall, Nicholson. He has The Killing Joke origin where he falls into the acid, which I consider legit. And they did their own thing with the gangster origin, which makes the most sense to me. BTAS carried this over.

[BatmAngelus]

Fantastic thread idea, zDBZ.

I'll just start with the main heroes:

Batman/Bruce Wayne: Pretty much the BTAS/DCAU Batman, with a bit of Grant Morrison's "everything is canon" treatment for his life experience.  He has the Batman Family (Robin Batgirl, etc.), is a member of the JLA, and the head of Batman Incorporated (which, I thought, was a cool development in expanding his war on crime to a bigger scale). 

He's a genius, a master martial artist, and the World's Greatest Detective.  This Batman is a superhero through and through while his alter ego, Bruce Wayne, is a businessman/philanthropist.  Essentially, in his civilian guise, he helps improve the world in order to continue his family legacy while, as Batman, he fights crime to grapple with the loss of his family.  I also subscribe to the "three personas" approach that Bale/Nolan went with- there's the playboy Bruce, the Batman, and the real Bruce, whom only a trusted few know.

Costume-wise, his suit would evolve over time, like in the comic history and as explained in DC: The New Frontier.  He'd start out in the black-and-gray Bill Finger 1939 costume with some Mazzuchelli Year One variations (bat insignia, utility belt, gloves), evolving into the more standard black-and-gray suit we've seen in the Arkham games.  When he starts Batman Inc., he adopts the light-up yellow oval, turning his persona into more of a branded symbol.

Closest Live Action Incarnation: Bale's "private" Bruce Wayne, Keaton's Batman, and West/Kilmer/Clooney's public Bruce Wayne

Alfred: The DCAU/Post-Crisis comic book version that's a little younger than the live action incarnations we've seen (barring William Austin).  He was a young servant who was loyal to the Waynes when they died and did his best to take care of their young son, Bruce.  He has his own army medic background and, in the pre-Robin days, was the one to help Bruce/Batman in the field (ala the 60s show, BTAS, Beware the Batman, the newspaper strips), mainly as a way of watching his back and tending to him if he were wounded.

Closest Live Action Incarnation: Alan Napier's active Alfred from the 1960s show with the look of William Austin, Michael Gough's paternal warmth, and Michael Caine's backstory.

James Gordon:  I loved the idea of Gordon being the cop who was there for Bruce the night of the Wayne murders, which was finally realized in Batman Begins (though it's worth nothing that a similar idea was in Steve Englehart's treatment for the 1989 movie as well as Sam Hamm's first draft.  I also believe it was implied in The Batman cartoon, though never confirmed in the show).  There's also the Wizard Magazine Ultimate Batman idea that Gordon tried to investigate their deaths and it was the one case he could never solve.  Personally, I dig these ideas better than Gordon being an outsider from Chicago, like in Year One.  I'd go with this and have Gordon around the same age as Thomas Wayne (as Bruce said in the "I Am The Night" episode of B:TAS).  Keep him as the tough cop from the cartoon and the Miller comics.

Closest Live Action Incarnation: Gary Oldman's friendship and backstory with Batman, mixed with Lyle Talbot (the 1949 serial) and Pat Hingle's gruffness.

Robin/Richard Grayson: I'd play a bit with Dark Victory in the origin, solely in the fact that Robin's origin happens after Harvey becomes Two-Face and Robin's presence provides Batman hope.  I'd go with the BTAS timeline where Bruce took the boy in at a young age, but he didn't get to go out into the field until he was older. 

I'd also use the Post-Crisis/Batman Forever idea that he uses the name Robin because of a nickname his parents gave him, rather than a take-off on Robin Hood. 

Costume-wise, I'd go with the Tim Drake-type Robin suit (basically- no bare limbs) and a Red Robin cowl because I think Bruce would want his partner's head to be protected just as well as he does.  Plus an RR cowl can give off a bird-like silhouette that would fit the Robin persona.

Closest Live Action Incarnation: The look of Burt Ward, Johnny Duncan's (the 1949 serial) competence (the guy was pretty much Batman's equal in the serial and wasn't the "Boy Hostage" that Ward was famous for being), and Chris O'Donnell's "angry youth."  If Joseph Gordon-Levitt counts, then I'd say throw in John Blake's proactive nature and detective skills.

Batgirl/Barbara Gordon: I'd go with the Batgirl: Year One version.  I also would keep it simple to the Pre-Crisis/BTAS/Beware the Batman version of Gordon's family.  No Barbara Snr. or James Jr. or Barbara being the niece-who's-now-his-adopted-daughter-who-might-actually-be-his-real-daughter.  She's his real daughter and Gordon's a single dad.

Robin/Jason Todd: I love the Under the Red Hood movie, so I'd go with most of what we saw there.  Jason was a street kid who needed a different way to channel his anger and was in danger of becoming a future criminal.  He was a different type of Robin than his predecessor- insubordinate and rage-driven.  He was supposedly killed in a bomb, thanks to the Joker.

Here come the differences: after the bombing, Batman finds a burnt body with a Robin cape over it and assumes it's Jason.  Everyone believes that the kid's dead.

Then awhile later, a new player comes to Gotham.  And in my version, it's not the Red Hood.  While I got the point of him taking on Joker's former persona as a way of reminding Batman of his previous failure, it only worked once.  Post-Under the Red Hood, it didn't make much sense for him to continue under that name.  Now, Jason's fighting crime in the New 52 under Joker's old persona.  Why? 

So I would have Jason return as someone else: Hush.

I'm not a huge fan of the Hush character.  I think Thomas Elliot was shoehorned into Bruce's backstory and it was incredibly obvious that the new character from Bruce's life would turn out to be the new villain.  He's pretty much a mix of Roman Sionis's backstory and Hugo Strange's M.O.  The most memorable part of the story, to me, was the part where Bruce thought that Jason had come back and I think it would've been better if Jason actually was Hush.

I also think "Hush" actually makes more sense of a persona for Jason than it did for Thomas Elliot.  The purpose of the "Invisible Man" type outfit would be to cover up his burnt scars from the explosion (obviously the body Bruce found was someone else and Jason was never actually killed, so we can avoid the whole Superboy-Prime-punches-reality or Ra's-dips-him-into-the-Pit explanation). 

And he would've used the name "Hush" because Joker mockingly sang "Hush little baby" while beating him in front of his mother (imagine how creepy that type of scene could be).  Thus, the costume and the name have a lot more significance and tie into Jason's revenge.  He calls himself "Hush," not just as a callback to his near-death experience (and the death of his mother), but also because he wants to silence Joker once and for all.

Robin/Tim Drake: Pretty much what we saw in A Lonely Place of Dying, with a bit of the Carrie Kelley origin.  I'd have him getting saved by Batman and Robin, which gives him more motivation to want to join them and shows the impact that the Dynamic Duo's actions can have on the average Gothamite (They're doing a bit of this with Roy Harper on Arrow).

[The Laughing Fish]

Bruce Wayne/Batman: I thought that The Animated Series was the best screen portrayal, whether it may be animated or live action. He can be cold and cerebral when he wears the cape and mask, but he is still a human being. The Mask of Phantasm especially showed Bruce's humanity and tragedy of becoming Batman; which not only it happened because of his grief for his parents, but also because losing Andrea Beaumont to circumstances he didn't know or control. The loss of that relationship, like losing Catwoman in Batman Returns, was the only way that Bruce could live a normal life.

I should also say the Steve Engelhart/Marshall Rogers run made me favour that era of the comics. First, it showed his brilliance as a detective and a problem solver, and secondly, it shows his tragic inability to keep romantic relationships because of what he does. Silver St Cloud decides it would be best to break it off with Bruce because she couldn't bear to worry about him being in danger every night. Bittersweet end to that Sign of the Joker issue.

Gordon: Even though it shows Bruce becoming Batman, I always felt that Year One was more like a Gordon story - to the point where it felt like it was being seen through his eyes at times. I never gave this plot much of a chance in the past, but I liked that Gordon here was a take-no-nonsense cop fighting an inherently corrupt system, while highlighting that he had character flaws too. He was a man who regretted cheating on Barbara, and felt undecided that Batman could change Gotham for the better, even though he is still technically a criminal too.

Joker: Once again, I think The Animated Series is distinctive because the Joker is at his unpredictable best. He could be shown as a trickster clown in one moment, and then he could be poisoning someone to death with smiling gas the next. And I'll use another Mask of Phantasm example - when it looks like he's about to grab a knife, he grabs a salami instead and beats the Phantasm with it. Gold.   

[zDBZ]

BatmAngelus - I updated the list to include some of the characters you added. And while I hate the decision to resurrect Jason Todd, your take on it is a marked improvement over what actually happened.

[Azrael]

Visually, the Arkhamverse offered an almost "definitive" character/costume design for some players; Robin, The Penguin, Harley Quinn (in City), Mad Hatter, Two-Face, Mr. Freeze, Clayface..