John Blake (SPOILERS)

[thecolorsblend]

It's the mere fact of Batman co-existing with this colorful superpowered universe that never sit right with me (for the record, I like Superman). In the comics, in certain cases where appearances of the DCU really work in the story's favour (like, say, in Miller's TDKR and anything illustrated by Alex Ross), I'm fine with it. As long as the bulk of Batman's own stories are Gotham-centric (as is the case, really), the "existence" of the DCU, the aliens, Darkseid, all this can be easily ignored. A live action film, however, that is also intented as Batman's "re-introduction", is a different thing altogether.

TDK and TCB in unison- "It's a different."

But seriously, I guess my beef with that line is that it seems to be informed by a view of Batman as a general fiction character rather than specifically a comic book character. If the injection of other superhero characters interferes with the tone of Batman, there's something wrong with how Batman's tone is being, I dunno, processed? Interpreted? Conceptualized? Whatever.

I guess apart from that, a common problem I've seen with Batman in a JLA movie is that it's a human on a team of people with superpowers. My answer to that is that Black Widow and Hawkeye both worked fine in the Avengers movie. Nobody seems to complain about them because they were doing things the other team members couldn't. I don't see how putting Batman into a JLA thing is a greater or lesser "problem".

The entire point is that the JLA is all about DC's heavy hitters all on one team. Batman's inclusion won't damage him but his exclusion could damage the movie. Either way, whether there's a JLA movie in the next couple of years or not, I don't see a new Batman franchise starting any time soon so there's nothing for a JLA movie to "conflict with" or harm.

[Azrael]

But seriously, I guess my beef with that line is that it seems to be informed by a view of Batman as a general fiction character rather than specifically a comic book character. If the injection of other superhero characters interferes with the tone of Batman, there's something wrong with how Batman's tone is being, I dunno, processed? Interpreted? Conceptualized? Whatever.

Haven't we argued (by "we" I mean all fandom) that Batman can, and has already been, interpreted and depicted in several different ways? The most succesful films of the last 20+ years (especially since 2005) presented Batman as the lone "extraordinary" figure in a semi-realistic setting; Nolan's were said to transcend the confines of the superhero genre, while Burton's did that too, in their own way, in the early 90s. If "general fiction character" as opposed to "specifically a superhero character"* means as free of the most colorful tropes and aesthetics usually associated with "traditional" superhero comics, well, he has already been treated as such.

*(I assume that by comic book you mean superhero)

The films were rich in influence and visual nods to the comics themselves, yes, but the comics that influenced them, like the most often cited examples (the original run of late 30s/early 40s, The Killing Joke, TDKR, Dark Victory etc.) were largely of the "Batman as Gotham's crimefighter" side than "Batman as a member of the DCU that teams up with JL to fight aliens". I don't know if my own view of Batman's tone is a mis-interpretation because it happens to be informed by the films and such comics.

I guess apart from that, a common problem I've seen with Batman in a JLA movie is that it's a human on a team of people with superpowers. My answer to that is that Black Widow and Hawkeye both worked fine in the Avengers movie. Nobody seems to complain about them because they were doing things the other team members couldn't. I don't see how putting Batman into a JLA thing is a greater or lesser "problem".

Yes, but who are Hawkeye and the Black Widow, how does their presence there affect their solo film franchises, and who is the Batman?

The entire point is that the JLA is all about DC's heavy hitters all on one team. Batman's inclusion won't damage him but his exclusion could damage the movie. Either way, whether there's a JLA movie in the next couple of years or not, I don't see a new Batman franchise starting any time soon so there's nothing for a JLA movie to "conflict with" or harm.

I think the point has always been that JLA has the potential to seriously damage Batman for the foreseeable future - if we were talking about solo DC films, with maybe the possibility of a team-up in the future after audience's interest is built (the Marvel way), then most would be supporting it or at least wouldn't have much of a problem. But WB is rushing things. It has been proven that Batman is popular enough to sustain any damage and resurrect after a misfire, but this is a possibility some don't find very attractive.

[thecolorsblend]

I think the point has always been that JLA has the potential to seriously damage Batman for the foreseeable future

Don't see how. The Nolan movies built a lot of affection for the character. One team up film of dubious quality isn't going to change much of anything.

if we were talking about solo DC films, with maybe the possibility of a team-up in the future after audience's interest is built (the Marvel way), then most would be supporting it or at least wouldn't have much of a problem.

All due respect but I have no idea where that's coming from. Many segments of the fanbase had a chance to support that Superman/Batman team up movie that was rumored in 1999 or 2000. They didn't. They said individual franchises should've been established first.

They had a chance to support a post-Batman Begins/post-Singerman team up movie. They didn't. Now they were saying the individual franchises should get a sequel first.

They had a chance to support Justice League: Mortal. They didn't. Now they were saying the individual trilogies should be completed first.

Now that we're basically back to square zero with both Batman and Superman, those same people are saying individual franchises should be set up first.

The simple fact of the matter is that history shows us that an entire section of the fanbase will not support Batman as anything other than a solo character in his own universe at any time under any circumstances. They'll contrive any number of bullsh*t reasons to justify it but at the end of the day their real objection is that Batman is one of many superhero characters rather than the only game in town. Anything else they is an excuse.

But WB is rushing things.

How so? Isn't Justice League of America supposedly scheduled for summer 2015? "Development" (of some kind) has been under way since June 2012. If we assume JLA is set for a June 2015 release, that gives the film three years in development. If a movie studio can't get a film together in three years, they need to find a different line of work.

It has been proven that Batman is popular enough to sustain any damage and resurrect after a misfire, but this is a possibility some don't find very attractive.

And they'll always have their Chris Nolan DVD's to console them.

[BatmAngelus]

I'm thinking we should open up a Justice League forum, since WB seems intent on making it now and it would be the best place for these JLA movie discussions.

As for JGL, it looks like he's in the running for one of the leads in Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy.  Could this mean that he's not in consideration for Batman in Justice League?  Would Marvel even be considering him if WB's planned a continuing role for him in the Batman franchise?  I guess we'll see.
http://www.deadline.com/2013/01/joseph-gordon-levitt-joins-the-guardians-of-the-galaxy-race/

[Paul (ral)]

I'm thinking we should open up a Justice League forum, since WB seems intent on making it now and it would be the best place for these JLA movie discussions.

Good call.