A serious thought on TDKR

[Grissom]

Hey bat-folk, I have asked this question on imdb boards and other message boards in general, what if Nolan does an even better job with TDKR, better writing, better action sequences, maybe even an equal or stronger villain, better love interest etc., would people then admit that TDK wasn't the "all-end-all" of Batman films or superhero films in general?

I saw TDK this past Saturday (popped in the DVD), it is a great movie although I have a few quibbles with it, like the Joker just "is" methodology (by Nolan himself), allowing the Joker to do things that may come off as a bit convenient at times, Bale should have had more conflict, the drums of fuel on the ferrys; how come they weren't check by security before the people got on, and a few others.

Other than that, great direction, performances, interesting ideas of morality and chaos in the screenplay and well constructed action sequences and I might be the first to say that I think Nolan may indeed pull off a better film with TDKR, because he's a filmmaker that always pushes the limit of the story and characters. I just hope to push the limits, Nolan doesn' go over the top.

[Azrael]

One has a hard time seeing Nolan going over the top. I think there's only one thing that could work against this movie - the hype. But then, TDK had insane hype too.

As for what you say about plot contrivances and convenient coincidences, agreed, the movie is full of them. There was a satirical site back in summer '08 that documented some of them. It completely fails if you try to watch it as a "realistic" crime drama starring Batman. But, if I remember right (sorry if I misquote) Nolan said that his "mission" was to show "what if all this was real". A visual (or, as others said it, "illusionary") realism is what it's about. It's still a comic book movie at heart.

I read somewhere that Nolan is a Bond fan, and according to descriptions and comments the prologue feels a bit like James Bond (I hope this isn't a big spoiler for those that don't want to see any). Now, most Bond films look much more "realistic" than Batman, but are full of plot conveniences and the viewer's disbelief is suspended a lot. And it's part of the fun.

[Grissom]

Nice thoughts on the film, and you're right, the hype itself might be the deciding factor of whether it lives up to it. The so-called "realistic" approach is maybe what kept it from what people hoped will be an academy award nomination. If you think about it, if it was a staright forward crime drama, without a guy in a bat-suit and a guy with facepaint, it may have gotten that nomination. Who knows?

[riddler]

The nolanites are saying the same thing now about TDK that they were saying about Batman Begins 4 years ago.

I think it could be the best simply because this is the first time a director has gone into a bat film with the notion that this will be his final batman film. So he wont leave any tricks in his back, he'll use his entire arsenal.

[The Dark Knight]

When TDK came out the Nolan crowd said it was the best. Nothing in it would be topped. Ever. It was the best we could hope for in Batman movie.  A few years go by. Those statements are revised into "it will be difficult." A bit more time passes, and it becomes "I think it can be done". And then you get the final war cry of "it will be done". The Nolanites know this is the final Nolan Batman film, so obviously, they are going to throw all of their might into it. They will say it's the best of the three, as it will be the lasting impression. And hey, I hope it is the best as well. But their general attitude about it stinks. As if Batman was a worthless character beforehand, and Nolan finally made something of him. But you know, sometimes it doesn't seem like it, but there are Nolan Batman fans out there that aren't all bad. The likes of BOF just shout the loudest.

[Azrael]

But their general attitude about it stinks. As if Batman was a worthless character beforehand, and Nolan finally made something of him. But you know, sometimes it doesn't seem like it, but there are Nolan Batman fans out there that aren't all bad. The likes of BOF just shout the loudest.

I know very well what you're talking about. This is one reason some keep fairly detached from the Batman fandom - they don't want their experience of the Nolan films to be tainted by the fans that act as if every screen version that came before (outside the much celebrated animated show) was worthless.

[riddler]

I'm pretty much agreeing with the last 2 posts; when I use the word 'Nolanite' I'm talking about those who believe the only 2 superhero films out there are Batman Begins and the Dark Knight.

When TDK came out the Nolan crowd said it was the best. Nothing in it would be topped. Ever. It was the best we could hope for in Batman movie.  A few years go by. Those statements are revised into "it will be difficult." A bit more time passes, and it becomes "I think it can be done". And then you get the final war cry of "it will be done".

If you replace 'TDK' with 'Batman Begins' the rest of your statement still holds true. We already know the dark knight rises will be one of the top 3 comic films of all time in their books, it's just a question of whether it will rank 1st, 2nd, or 3rd

[Grissom]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see TDKR when it's finally released. I think Nolan has done a great job with the series and I find it highly unlikely that this film will be a step down from TDk, most likely on the same level or a step above. Just my opinion.