WHEN and HOW does Joker discover Bruce Wayne is Batman in Batman 1989?

[The Dark Knight]

If Napier didn't know who Batman was in the rest of the film, he surely did at the Cathedral confrontation. It would have clicked why this man is out for revenge for these murders comitted years ago, and who he must be. Bruce reciting that dancing with the devil quote and all...Though I don't think Joker really cared.

[Kamdan]

duh, yeah he did mean 'I know who you are' as in Jack Napier.

I meant he recognized him as the man he droped into the chemicals, not the man who killed his parents, like how you put it.

[The Dark Knight]

Obviously, the guy is Batman. He's the one who dropped him in the chemicals. Same suit and everything. That's pretty easy to connect, just by sight.

[WingedFreak71]

he absolutely says i WAS a kid when i killed your parents so he is most definitely acknowledging what he did - not saying IF i was the one who killed your parents i'd have only been a kid

how'd i miss this issue for so long though?? - i am pissed at myself - unless there is something obvious that i'm missing here - yeah how does he know what Batman's talking about???

only thing i can think of is that he did petty theft like robbing people in alleys (and only that) when he was a "kid" - but it's been ages since he's done anything small time like that - these days it's only bigger stuff - so he believes Batman when he says you killed my parents, even though he might not know specifically which couple he gunned down in an alley he's referring to - he acknowledges it, but he knows it had to have been ages ago

so he doesn't necessarily know who Batman is -

how's that?

update: sorry colorsblend - i see you had a similar point of view on the previous page

[DocLathropBrown]

The novel clears it up.

Batman does not recognize Naiper as his parents' murderer until the apartment scene.

The Joker doesn't seem to really know what Batman means at the end, as it describes the Joker as saying "I was a kid when I..." as "backpeddling," which is what you do when you're just trying to humor someone. Batman was pissed, so the Joker wasn't going to further anger the guy by not agreeing with him.

The Joker was just humoring Bats in an attempt to save his own ass. Naiper was a killer for a living. He probably wouldn't remember such a murder specifically, and if he did, I doubt he realized who it was he murdered.

[The Dark Knight]

The novel clears it up.

Batman does not recognize Naiper as his parents' murderer until the apartment scene.

The Joker doesn't seem to really know what Batman means at the end, as it describes the Joker as saying "I was a kid when I..." as "backpeddling," which is what you do when you're just trying to humor someone. Batman was pissed, so the Joker wasn't going to further anger the guy by not agreeing with him.

The Joker was just humoring Bats in an attempt to save his own ass. Naiper was a killer for a living. He probably wouldn't remember such a murder specifically, and if he did, I doubt he realized who it was he murdered.

Cool, thanks for the explanation.

[batass4880]

The novel clears it up.

Batman does not recognize Naiper as his parents' murderer until the apartment scene.

The Joker doesn't seem to really know what Batman means at the end, as it describes the Joker as saying "I was a kid when I..." as "backpeddling," which is what you do when you're just trying to humor someone. Batman was pissed, so the Joker wasn't going to further anger the guy by not agreeing with him.

The Joker was just humoring Bats in an attempt to save his own ass. Naiper was a killer for a living. He probably wouldn't remember such a murder specifically, and if he did, I doubt he realized who it was he murdered.

That's very credible. I actually kinda, sorta thought the whole "I was a kid..." thing was to set up the "how childish can you get" line but I wasn't sure.

[Batnar]

Very cool topic. This definitely helps clarify that vague moment. 

[phantom stranger]

Batman never says, "When I was a child, I watched you kill my parents in an alley."

All he says is that the Joker killed his parents. Now Jack Napier was always a bad guy. For all we know, he killed a lot of people in his younger days. So maybe he didn't even know who exactly Batman was talking about.

Or maybe he did. The script is ambigous.

[KeatonisBatman]

The novel clears it up.

Batman does not recognize Naiper as his parents' murderer until the apartment scene.

The Joker doesn't seem to really know what Batman means at the end, as it describes the Joker as saying "I was a kid when I..." as "backpeddling," which is what you do when you're just trying to humor someone. Batman was pissed, so the Joker wasn't going to further anger the guy by not agreeing with him.

The Joker was just humoring Bats in an attempt to save his own ass. Naiper was a killer for a living. He probably wouldn't remember such a murder specifically, and if he did, I doubt he realized who it was he murdered.

Sorry I find that a bit hard to believe at least from watching the film repeatedly over the years.  Here's my point of view...

How could Bruce Wayne know that Napier killed his parents during the scene in Vicki's apartment?  Maybe he had an inclination the moment before he was shot, when Joker asked Bruce if he'd ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight.  I don't think Bruce could've/would've known prior to that point... Because that would make the "flashback" sequence in the batcave later in the film moot.  I'm referring to the scene in the Batcave where Bruce remembers the night his parents were murdered (and the "Ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" line jogs his memory).

I'm under the impression that Jack Napier is a pretty smart guy.  I would also think that... in the 20+ years that's gone by since he killed the Waynes, he probably caught wind that he murdered a high profile couple.  Surely in all that time he would've known or heard that he killed Thomas and Martha Wayne.  Put all that together... then you have the Joker in Vicki's apartment speaking with Wayne, and then the confrontation at the bell tower where Batman uses his "Bruce Wayne" voice to repeat the infamous devil line.  I think Napier put two and two together. 

In the end, I think it was a very sophisticated way of "revealing" who Batman was (to the Joker).  If it wasn't intentional, it certainly was a well put together accident.