Arrow TV series SPOILER thread

[greggbray]

^ I hope I did that right. If not, kill this.

I think the Arrow pilot and premise sounds interesting. There have been recent rumors and at least two confirmations RE: DC characters making appearances in the show--based on this alone, WB has my interest.   

Given the review posted by riddler:

saw the first episode of the Arrow series at a private screening today. Sorry for not doing this as a PM but would a mod/admin be kind enough to let me know how you'd like me to proceed with that? Should I make a spoiler post in a different colour? Should I create a new thread with the word spoiler in the title? Or should I wait until it's on TV before discussing it? Until I get the go ahead, I will not post any spoilers in fear of ruining anything for anyone. I certainly will respond to any PM's I get in the meantime from those asking questions. Here's my general thoughts without spoiling any plot points;
Also the screening was with the 4 main cast members I will post some of their responses to the questions (these are not huge spoilers)
-the cast and crew did speak highly of the show LOST. The first episode has plenty of lost style 'time jumps with a handful of flash backs. The cast and crew did indicate this sort of thing will happen early but it will be cut down. If you watched LOST, it did this pretty much every episode except the first and last. The first 3 seasons had a lot of flash backwards. The last 3 had quite a bit of flashing forward (also amplified by the fact that half the cast goes back in time). They claimed the rationale is that the back story is extremely important but did not want it to be a linear story as it wold take quite a few episodes to get to where we ant to get.
-continuing on the previous point, part of the reason for all the flashbacks is that the entire episode was basically shot like a big puzzle; Quite often they'd show a 'present' scene' and then have a flashback which fills in a missing piece or explained what just happened and/or why it did.
-very minor spoiler here but while many super hero stories try to avoid setting themselves in a specific time period, this once clearly establishes the present as being 2012.
-the topic of smallville came up in the Q and A. Nobody disrespected that series but they basically said they are operating independently. They acknowledged the fact that it must have done something right to stay on the air for 10 seasons and welcomed the comparisons. That being said they will not be handcuffed by any continuity from smallville.
-there's a lot of questions about the star Stephen Amell and why did they not cast Justin Hartley. Seeing the episode and trailer for the full season, the character is very different than smallville and (no disrespect to anyone reading this), a soap opera actor such as Hartley may not have been able to fill that role
-there weren't any big references in the first episode from comic characters coming from outside the immediate Green Arrow verse. But the question came up and the answer was there'd be references to other DC characters and their stomping grounds. They did not say which one. The question of the green lantern came up. The answer was 'never say never' but it doesn't seem to be happening. They did say they'll be shooting it gritty with no super powers, just enhanced skills for the title character and villains.
-this has been brought up in the thread why is the title 'Arrow' and not "Green Arrow'? Amell said the original plan was to call it 'Oliver Queen' and they would have if they could get away with it. He did say the colour green will be prevolent but they felt 'arrow' was the most appropriate title.
-when asked about the comics, here was the vibe; the writes are HUGE comic fans but the cast is being instructed that while they are free to read the comics their source material should be the script. The question was asked 'for fans who want to brush up or learn about the character they are about to see, which comic stories should they read? The answer was green arrow; year one and Green Arrow/Black Canary (the crossovers).

Now to answer the inevitable question of 'will i like it?' I'll just say this: If you can read this post, you will LOVE the pilot episode.

...I'm actually more excited for it.

My only concern is that in the previews it seems that Arrow kills people.  Maybe that's not that big of a deal, but for a long time the comic character was a pacifist (though, to be fair, I'm basing this on comics I read when younger and the Timm-verse.  I haven't read any recent comics due to some time and fiscal constraints).  Hence the boxing glove arrow. 

Still I'm curious to see where they go with this.  To be honest, I would have welcomed a GA spin-off from Smallville, but I'll admit to being intrigued by how they're handling him here despite my initial concerns.  I'll be watching. 

[riddler]

saw the first episode and the screening, here's a synopsis with MAJOR spoilers

It starts off with Oliver Queen seemingly stranded in a jungle attacking a tribe from afar using his bow and arrow. He then returns to star city (not starling) we find that he was away for 5 years, he was on a boat crash and presumed dead. In fact he was the only survivor of 7 with one being his father.

He returns a changed man, while not directly stated, it's presumed he learned his fighting and archery while stranded. I found it similar to iron man; attempted to be assassinated via targeted attack but escaped. After the boat attack and just prior to dying, his father gave him a black book of those who were crooked and had robbed him indicating he needs to avenge the wrongs.

Starling city is portrayed similar to Nolan's Gotham city minus the mob; extremely corrupt to the extend where the rich can corrupt police and judges via bribes. Katie cassidy plays a legal aid attorney set to take on some of these rich industrialists. She's mocked by her own office as it's difficult enough in the real world for a legal aid attorney to take on rich corporations but even more so in this world when the rich can easily corrupt the legal system. Cassidy was Oliver Queens girlfriend prior to leaving. Just prior to him leaving, Queen started cheating on her with her sister. Her sister was on the fatal boat with him and thus Cassidy is extremely hostile towards Queen.

The oliver queen character has a resemblance to Christian Bale's batman but with a different spin; Bruce Wayne acts like a rich playboy ditz to essentially mask his alter ego but acts completely different in the confines of others. Queen was a rich partying playboy prior to leaving. His experience changed him but upon returning clearly does act like a playboy still despite the fact that it no longer comes natural to him. This is again to mask himself. Now unlike Batman, this character will kill and not just in self defense. It seems that the duality for the public will be played out similar to Peter Parker/Spider-man, twice Queen was found to be in close proximity to an attack from the arrow. The police believe Queen only knows the arrow or that the green arrow is protecting him. They don't seem to believe he actually IS that vigilante.

It is an intriguing game of cat and mouse; Oliver is going after those in the book while the people who set up the attack on the boat are still trying to have him killed (you do find out who put the hit on him at the end of the episode but I wont spoil that part. If you really want to know this, send me a PM). As far as his status as a hero? At least in the first episode he doesn't seem to be acting like Spider-man or Superman in the sense that he waits around for someone to get in trouble and swoops in to save them. Every person he attacks is due to a personal vendetta. That being said though it's not as simple of a case of 'you wronged me, I go after you', his targets are in fact bad people who either have or will wrong others. Cassidy's character becomes a target for attacking corrupt corporations legally and thus there essentially is a 'hit' on her. Queen knows this so he feels he needs to protect her.

The archery part is extremely well done. A lot of people liked hawkeye's trick arrows from the avengers, well this film takes that to the next level; he has different arrows for different functions including, attacking, hacking, killing electricity, and escaping. I'm not big into archery but I think this will be an excellent part of the show.

There are many people who wish Justin Hartley played this character. Nothing against Hartley but he is intense and physical and dark and I can not see Hartley pulling it off. Amell has also been an archer since child hood and this seems to be a critical thing going forward.

[Paul (ral)]

TOPICS MERGED

[riddler]

^ I hope I did that right. If not, kill this.

I think the Arrow pilot and premise sounds interesting. There have been recent rumors and at least two confirmations RE: DC characters making appearances in the show--based on this alone, WB has my interest.   

Given the review posted by riddler:

saw the first episode of the Arrow series at a private screening today. Sorry for not doing this as a PM but would a mod/admin be kind enough to let me know how you'd like me to proceed with that? Should I make a spoiler post in a different colour? Should I create a new thread with the word spoiler in the title? Or should I wait until it's on TV before discussing it? Until I get the go ahead, I will not post any spoilers in fear of ruining anything for anyone. I certainly will respond to any PM's I get in the meantime from those asking questions. Here's my general thoughts without spoiling any plot points;
Also the screening was with the 4 main cast members I will post some of their responses to the questions (these are not huge spoilers)
-the cast and crew did speak highly of the show LOST. The first episode has plenty of lost style 'time jumps with a handful of flash backs. The cast and crew did indicate this sort of thing will happen early but it will be cut down. If you watched LOST, it did this pretty much every episode except the first and last. The first 3 seasons had a lot of flash backwards. The last 3 had quite a bit of flashing forward (also amplified by the fact that half the cast goes back in time). They claimed the rationale is that the back story is extremely important but did not want it to be a linear story as it wold take quite a few episodes to get to where we ant to get.
-continuing on the previous point, part of the reason for all the flashbacks is that the entire episode was basically shot like a big puzzle; Quite often they'd show a 'present' scene' and then have a flashback which fills in a missing piece or explained what just happened and/or why it did.
-very minor spoiler here but while many super hero stories try to avoid setting themselves in a specific time period, this once clearly establishes the present as being 2012.
-the topic of smallville came up in the Q and A. Nobody disrespected that series but they basically said they are operating independently. They acknowledged the fact that it must have done something right to stay on the air for 10 seasons and welcomed the comparisons. That being said they will not be handcuffed by any continuity from smallville.
-there's a lot of questions about the star Stephen Amell and why did they not cast Justin Hartley. Seeing the episode and trailer for the full season, the character is very different than smallville and (no disrespect to anyone reading this), a soap opera actor such as Hartley may not have been able to fill that role
-there weren't any big references in the first episode from comic characters coming from outside the immediate Green Arrow verse. But the question came up and the answer was there'd be references to other DC characters and their stomping grounds. They did not say which one. The question of the green lantern came up. The answer was 'never say never' but it doesn't seem to be happening. They did say they'll be shooting it gritty with no super powers, just enhanced skills for the title character and villains.
-this has been brought up in the thread why is the title 'Arrow' and not "Green Arrow'? Amell said the original plan was to call it 'Oliver Queen' and they would have if they could get away with it. He did say the colour green will be prevolent but they felt 'arrow' was the most appropriate title.
-when asked about the comics, here was the vibe; the writes are HUGE comic fans but the cast is being instructed that while they are free to read the comics their source material should be the script. The question was asked 'for fans who want to brush up or learn about the character they are about to see, which comic stories should they read? The answer was green arrow; year one and Green Arrow/Black Canary (the crossovers).

Now to answer the inevitable question of 'will i like it?' I'll just say this: If you can read this post, you will LOVE the pilot episode.

...I'm actually more excited for it.

My only concern is that in the previews it seems that Arrow kills people.  Maybe that's not that big of a deal, but for a long time the comic character was a pacifist (though, to be fair, I'm basing this on comics I read when younger and the Timm-verse.  I haven't read any recent comics due to some time and fiscal constraints).  Hence the boxing glove arrow. 

Still I'm curious to see where they go with this.  To be honest, I would have welcomed a GA spin-off from Smallville, but I'll admit to being intrigued by how they're handling him here despite my initial concerns.  I'll be watching. 

He kills multiple people in the first episode on purpose. It fit well and was logical; he killed people whom are endangering the lives of others and turning them into the police is not an option as the ones he killed work for the rich corrupt type whom can tamper with the legal system. The corruption even went further than gotham city (which has dirty cops); the judges themselves take bribes. It's somewhat daredevil style vigilante justice The difference being if Bale's Batman saw a bad guy about to kill a good person he'd think to himself "I have to find a way to save the civilian without killing the thug".. if this Green arrow was in the same dillema, it would be "ready, aim, FIRE" It's not that he wants to kill or has deemed himself the judge, jury, and executioner it's that if he sees it as a necessity he will do it.


also as far as characters coming in, the black canary and huntress are confirmed.

They're not necessarily spitting or disrespecting smallvie the way that the Incredible Hulk, Dark Knight, and amazing spider-man kind of did to their predecessors. The cast and crew openly stated that smallville was a successful show to be able to stay around for that long. But its very obvious that they simply could not take the show where they wanted to take it while maintaining the smallville continuity; Oliver develops his skills in that show. In Arrow we are led to believe that Oliver obtained his skills for the 5 years he was 'shipwrecked'. By the way I didnt say it previously but he stayed away that long not because that's how long it took him to escape, he stayed away because he needed to take out the people on the island he ended up on, basically finishing what they started. Once he did, he chose to return home.  Also they did state one rule is 'no superpowers' so while Metropolis or coast city could be mentioned, do not expect to see Green Lantern and superman flying around or the flash running at mach 10 speeds. A gritty batman could fit in here.

I posted it in the other thread but it's implies that the boat crash was in 2007 and the return was in 2012; one character names all the superbowl winners since he was gone and remarks the president is black now.

[thecolorsblend]

Still I'm curious to see where they go with this.  To be honest, I would have welcomed a GA spin-off from Smallville, but I'll admit to being intrigued by how they're handling him here despite my initial concerns.  I'll be watching. 

Had Hartley/Queen not become a central part of the show starting in season 8, I'd agree. But SV really did mine that version of Ollie pretty well. I'm not cool with how this show sounds like it's shaping up but a new continuity from SV? Can't blame 'em too much for that.

I do wish it had been another DC character though (Jack Knight/Starman, I'm looking pretty much right at you).

[greggbray]

Hey Riddler.

You know, given your review and some of the follow up confirmations about other characters in the show, color me excited. 

I really enjoy GA (though I admit to not having picked him up in a while as mentioned earlier) so of course I'm game for a show about him.  Premieres in October?

[riddler]

confirmed october yes. And it sure was amazing. I mean really i cant see a scenario where anyone who enjoys any of the batman films would not enjoy the pilot. Takes elements of daredevil, batman, and iron man. And I mean the dark elements

[thecolorsblend]

I knew I remembered an Arrow thread somewhere around here.

Didn't watch the show very long. But I did catch the great majorities of the third and fourth seasons as they aired. But fans say the show was almost entirely different in the first season, which I never saw. So, I decided to give it a test-drive. And yes, it is very different from the tone and style of subsequent seasons.

And for me, that's a good thing. I like that for NOW, this version of Green Arrow is very much his own thing in his own world. Obviously, this won't last too long. But so far, I'm enjoying what the first season is doing.

[The Laughing Fish]

Arrow was at its peak in the first season and a half, gritty for CW standards with Oliver wrestling with his own demons and dilemma over what sort of crusader he wanted to be. I thought the show was already beginning to expose some cracks with Deathstroke's admittedly flimsy motivations for his revenge in the second season, but the third season with Ra's al Ghul and the undoing of character arcs in the previous seasons was when it jumped the shark for me. That, and Felicity Smoak should've remained as a faithful sidekick among Oliver's steam. As soon as Guggenheim and co decided to pair her and Oliver romantically, she became unbearable.

I still maintain Arrow and The Flash should've been it for the Arrowverse. I enjoyed that Brave and the Bold crossover far more than any of subsequent crossovers. Especially the shoddy adaptations of Crisis on Infinite Earths.