Best Batman "gotcha" moment

[The Laughing Fish]

An underappreciated detail about Batman Returns is the Caped Crusader constantly outsmarting the villains, and showing no mercy while doing so. There are moments in other movies where Batman outwits villains in the last thirty years, but not to the extent we see in BR.

My favourite "gotcha" moment is when Bruce hacks into the Penguin's press conference and ruins his election campaign, by playing the recording of his contempt for Gotham City during the hijacking of the Batmobile.

Yes, I know it's a bit ironic considering Batman failed to foresee the possibility of the Batmobile getting compromised in the first place, but it shows how resourceful he is. While getting framed for crimes he didn't commit and stuck in a remote-controlled death trap, Batman thinks fast and records the Penguin's words on CD, and would eventually use it against him. He'll find the way to not only expose you, but retaliate in the most humiliating way possible. In Penguin's case, not only did Batman drag his name through the mud as he did by framing him for the Ice Princess murder, it would pave the way for Cobblepot to return to his savage ways.

If you agree, great. But if not, what is your favourite moment?

[thecolorsblend]

I like the "You missed" bit because it's devastating... but not necessarily lethal.

[The Dark Knight]

I like the "You missed" bit because it's devastating... but not necessarily lethal.

Your example would probably be the most memorable (and referenced in Assault on Arkham). The strongman incident is arguably more so, especially in terms of controversy. The firebreather takedown is my pick though, for the sheer irony of it all. A man dressed in a red devil outfit getting a dose of instant karma. Seems like a fair course of action if the gentleman in question is all about fire. If it's good enough for everyone else...

[Catbat]

This is a very interesting topic: actually in BR Batman gets challenged by his foes more often that in the previous movie, thus giving him the chance to show his wits when facing difficult / dangerous situations and eventually overcoming them most of the times.
I'd say his sabotaging the Penguin's press conference is the most effective and it somehow "balances" the Penguin's attempt to frame him for the murder of the Ice Princess. Also, him burning the red devil clown with the batmobile booster is deadly efficient and is a good second for me.

I personally believe the only villain Batman was not able to outwit in BR was Catwoman, who basically dominated him in every encounter. Sure, he fought back and managed to at least contain her in the two main fights, but overall she proved to be an incredibly insidious enemy for him. During the first battle on the rooftop she severely beat him (I guess that was the only time we actually saw Batman retreating), and later deceived him by pretending a sudden erotic attraction toward him. Their second fight also followed a similar path, with Batman ultimately resorting to sheer violence to stop her - the fact that she didn't manage to pierce the batsuit as deeply as she had done the night before was probably due to his upgraded armor, but also to the fact that she hit him where the suit was thicker. On both occasions however, she seemed more inclined to challenge him sexually in order to undermine his vigilantism, which possibily made the audience wonder if at that point their confrontation was more psychological than physical. This is also in keeping with her idea to degrade Batman by smearing his image before destroying him, which can be seen as her attempt to outsmart him - of course Batman eventually turned the hacking of the batmobile against the Penguin, but it's worth noticing that the sabotage was Catwoman's idea in the first place, while the clown gang merely execute it.

Let me know what you think!

[The Laughing Fish]

This is a very interesting topic: actually in BR Batman gets challenged by his foes more often that in the previous movie, thus giving him the chance to show his wits when facing difficult / dangerous situations and eventually overcoming them most of the times.

I reckon it's reasonable to suggest ever since Batman struggled with the large Joker goon at the cathedral in B89, he learned how to think fast and one-up the villains on a more regular basis, By the time we see him in BR, he using these ingenious tactics to eliminate threats that more strange and dangerous than your regular mugging.

Comic book purists and hypocrites may complain Batman should always look for another way when it comes to how he dealt with the firebreather and the Strongman. But I'll paraphrase one of the screenwriters for the movie said, the world in Gotham City takes place in dark times. You can't just always tie up a criminal in front of a police station. The situation dictates your response, and sometimes, you're going to get blood on your hands to defend yourself and to protect the greater good.

I personally believe the only villain Batman was not able to outwit in BR was Catwoman, who basically dominated him in every encounter. Sure, he fought back and managed to at least contain her in the two main fights, but overall she proved to be an incredibly insidious enemy for him. During the first battle on the rooftop she severely beat him (I guess that was the only time we actually saw Batman retreating), and later deceived him by pretending a sudden erotic attraction toward him. Their second fight also followed a similar path, with Batman ultimately resorting to sheer violence to stop her - the fact that she didn't manage to pierce the batsuit as deeply as she had done the night before was probably due to his upgraded armor, but also to the fact that she hit him where the suit was thicker. On both occasions however, she seemed more inclined to challenge him sexually in order to undermine his vigilantism, which possibily made the audience wonder if at that point their confrontation was more psychological than physical.

I think it's both psychological and physical. Catwoman equaled Batman in combat - if not bettered him, simply because of her agility, and like every male counterpart she meets, she knew how to trick him and degrade him. But Selina and Bruce did share a romantic chemistry together, and when you put that together with Catwoman's dominance over Batman for the majority of the time, it makes their potential romance coming to a premature end even more tragic. The one woman Bruce Wayne has more in common with, and not only she is able to undermine him, but her desire for revenge and hatred was even more destructive than his own thirst for vengeance. Had they been on the same page, who knows what good they could've achieved together.

This is also in keeping with her idea to degrade Batman by smearing his image before destroying him, which can be seen as her attempt to outsmart him - of course Batman eventually turned the hacking of the batmobile against the Penguin, but it's worth noticing that the sabotage was Catwoman's idea in the first place, while the clown gang merely execute it.

As I said before, it was a massive oversight on Batman's part that the Batmobile could get so easily compromised in the first place. The lack of a failsafe was critical once the Red Triangle Gang hacked into the car. Particularly when you consider they managed to do so just by studying the Penguin's Batmobile blueprint. There's no denying it, Batman fell for the trap. But I'll repeat, he was still smart enough to survive and overcome the ordeal by exposing the Penguin for the deviant he really is.

[The Dark Knight]

This is a very interesting topic: actually in BR Batman gets challenged by his foes more often that in the previous movie, thus giving him the chance to show his wits when facing difficult / dangerous situations and eventually overcoming them most of the times.

I don't think Batman was ever genuinely challenged physically. He gets punched on his armor by the strongman, but Keaton isn't worried. He's relaxed about it all throughout the entire encounter and disposes of his foe easily.

The firebreather was never going to injure him or even his vehicle, and he was also dispatched with ease. Same thing with for the taser clown. These incidents show Keaton had full confidence in his own abilities, and his enemies underestimated him for whatever reason. He took people by surprise by thinking ahead.

During the big brawl in the street with the circus members the only nuisance he had was the dog running away with his batarang. Catwoman had skill, and the whip served as a shield between the two, but a degree of that was Batman not wanting to hit a woman. He's apologetic when she feigns weakness, and he probably never shook that mental barrier - especially when he discovers it's Selina behind the mask.

The biggest issue for Batman was being framed as it set the police onto him, and more importantly progressed Penguin's agenda as a mayoral candidate. So indeed, Batman's biggest challenge in Returns was more mental and less physical.

B89 challenges Batman physically in a more threatening way. Shot down on the roof by the punks, falling from the grapling gun as Vicki lets go and then being shot, enduring the batwing crash and being knocked around by Ray Charles. Batman also had a shaky reputation which he had to overcome.

[Catbat]

I reckon it's reasonable to suggest ever since Batman struggled with the large Joker goon at the cathedral in B89, he learned how to think fast and one-up the villains on a more regular basis, By the time we see him in BR, he using these ingenious tactics to eliminate threats that more strange and dangerous than your regular mugging.

I totally agree on this: Batman's ability to improvise and adapt his fighting skills to weird and exhotic threats clearly was evident during his confrontations with the Circus Gang. Not only he singlehandedly dispatched them despite their numbers, but also turned their own attacks against them on many occasions. Even his multiple strike with the batrang came very close to actually neutralize all his opponents, and was eventually thwarted by the only occurrence he didn't have the time to consider, namely the trained poodle. Interestingly, the chain of events that followed the loss of the batrang later brought about Batman's (almost simultaneous) "confrontation" with the three main female foes: indeed, the following night we had the Knifethrower Dame dismantling the protections of batmobile, the Poodle Lady overseeing its sabotaging and Catwoman ambushing him while he attempted to save the Ice Princess. Speaking of challenges, I think that although the three conducted their attacks separately and had different goals, the combined effect of their actions had definitely more dangerous ramifications if seen as a whole strategy: for example, Catwoman's intervention not only slowed down and weakened Batman, but also bought time for the other traps to be set.

I think it's both psychological and physical. Catwoman equaled Batman in combat - if not bettered him, simply because of her agility, and like every male counterpart she meets, she knew how to trick him and degrade him. But Selina and Bruce did share a romantic chemistry together, and when you put that together with Catwoman's dominance over Batman for the majority of the time, it makes their potential romance coming to a premature end even more tragic.

Absolutely - one of the most interesting features of Catwoman is that she's more than a match for Batman when it comes to physically fight him. That somehow goes beyond the mere fact that, just like him, she's a creature of the night (and thus unaffected by the intimidating factor of his costumed persona) - Catwoman actually seemed even more at ease with the ways of her own vigilantism than him. Her self confidence probably stemmed from the early successes she had (the mugger, the destruction of Shreck's store - as you correctly wrote, she had the ability to trick and degrade her male counterparts) and of course her superior agility was a plus. Possibly, the intense romantic chemistry they had as Selina and Bruce had a sort of twisted dark side when they wore their costumes. If you compare Bruce's first date with Selina with the final part of their first fight as Batman and Catwoman, it's possible to notice some details that seemingly give the idea of two conflicting instincts struggling to cohesist, but that are ultimately destined to create more trauma and frustration. Catwoman caressed Batman's face with her clawed hand, a gesture that might have been a sign of affection in other circumstances but became dangerously ambiguous and dangerous since they had been fighting each other until moments before. Selina passionately kissed Bruce by the fireplace, but then her hand touched the spot where she had punctured him, renewed his pain and hampered their "normal" romance. Even more, Catwoman apparently became (and sounded) sexually aroused while stroking Batman's abs protections, but it remained unclear whether her attraction toward him was genuine or she was just trying to deceive him by objectifying his body armor. Catwoman's equivocal worshipping of Batman's body got reflected by Bruce's vagueness in describing his romantic past to Selina, to the point she abruptly kissed him to get rid of the stress caused by the prolonging of his clumsy explanations. Given all due differences, Catwoman "disentangled" the sexually tense situation on the ledge by puncturing Batman's flank - although more erotically charged in tone, her attack bore some similarities with the way they brusquely parted ("I can't do that" - "Neither can I") as they reckoned their inability to know each other any deeper. I guess these details further corroborate your idea that their relationship could have had great potential, but, together with the theme of "wearing masks" and their respective costumes working as bordelines, it all rapidly became mentally traumatizing for Selina and, due to Catwoman's physical and sexual dominance, increasingly painful for Batman.

[The Laughing Fish]

Interestingly, the chain of events that followed the loss of the batrang later brought about Batman's (almost simultaneous) "confrontation" with the three main female foes: indeed, the following night we had the Knifethrower Dame dismantling the protections of batmobile, the Poodle Lady overseeing its sabotaging and Catwoman ambushing him while he attempted to save the Ice Princess. Speaking of challenges, I think that although the three conducted their attacks separately and had different goals, the combined effect of their actions had definitely more dangerous ramifications if seen as a whole strategy: for example, Catwoman's intervention not only slowed down and weakened Batman, but also bought time for the other traps to be set.

I like your connection between the three female villains making their contribution to set Batman up.

Sadly, this only reminds me of my belief if the movie were to be made today, there would be some backlash from a minority of sexist fanboys who'd claim Batman got "cucked" by all the women in the movie, while ignoring every moment he one-ups somebody. And if the critics were to highlight Catwoman as a feminist icon - in today's hostile sociopolitical climate - I'm convinced the movie would've been accused of promoting an agenda by anti-SJWs. Basically, what I'm saying BR would've even more misunderstood today if it were released right now, instead of the year 1992.

And yes, the juxtaposition between Batman and Catwoman's scars as they fight and how they feel their scars while sharing an intimate moment together as their alter egos in Wayne Manor is amazing.