Beautiful Lie

[Dagenspear]

I dont get peoples hate for "another" death scene. Do people not realize his parents death is the reason he becomes batman?! lol

And Uncle Ben's death is the reason Peter Parker becomes Spider-Man, but people don't want to see that again.

Because people hate Snyder and relish knocking BvS whenever they can.

Them hating Snyder is also the reason they hate seeing Uncle Ben get killed too.

Let's not sit here and pretend there aren't those who just want to knock it out of sheer pettiness. When the Nolan Batman films were in full swing, the snide comments towards the Burton films, which just prior to Batman Begins enjoyed a rather positive reception, was getting raked over the coals. For evidently, no good reason, other than push the agenda that the Nolan Batman films were far superior than anything we got before the summer of 2005. 

There's always gonna be an element of that. But let's also not pretend that that's just what it is. It's a thing for some though, those that pretend that certain things are problems, when it isn't. The Nolan films have gotten that too, even here. Have a very great day everyone!

God bless everyone!

[The Laughing Fish]

Batman Forever style:

That's the best mash-up I've seen out of all of them so far.

Somebody edited another mash-up with the 1989 version, but it's not great. It doesn't have a title sequence, and it's in black and white for the most part.

[thecolorsblend]

The opening scene was great, without a doubt. Some people may complain that the origin story is redundant, but we're getting Batman's background edited into an opening montage to convey his personal tragedy, without stretching it for over an hour. Pacing wise, I found it to be very economical and effective.

Totally. And what works for me is that it's probably the most faithful version of the Wayne murders ever put into live action. Burton modified the murders by setting Jack Napier as the killer. I don't begrudge him that change... but it IS a change. Nolan says Ra's was indirectly responsible for the murders. Another change.

Snyder understood that the Wayne murders were random and senseless. "The world only makes sense when you force it to". In not attaching any significance to the murders except what Bruce himself attaches to them, Snyder allows Batman to be driven but without a specific target. The identity of the murderer should be irrelevant. Even if it's Joe Chill, being able to attach a name and a face to the crime shouldn't change the meaning (or lack of meaning) to the murders. It should be a random crime rather than a targeted assassination, the machinations of a future supervillain or whatever else.

Gotham City has to be broadly guilty of the Wayne murders rather than a specific individual with a specific agenda. It makes Batman's quest all the more interesting inasmuch as he's struggling against the city's character and trying to remake it using the city's own methods. The wisdom of that approach is and should be up for debate.

[The Dark Knight]

It's the best version of the Wayne murders. No question.

[Travesty]

Nolan says Ra's was indirectly responsible for the murders. Another change.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, or where it was applied in the movies? Unless I'm forgetting something?

[thecolorsblend]

Nolan says Ra's was indirectly responsible for the murders. Another change.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, or where it was applied in the movies? Unless I'm forgetting something?

What I (perhaps wrongly interpreted) is that the League used economics to cripple Gotham which caused their financial problems... and their crime problems... and indirectly positioned Chill to murder the Waynes. All unintentional on the League's part, of course, but a consequence of their actions nevertheless.

Flip ahead to 1:52:

Assuming I'm right, there was a deeper meaning and an ugly cause behind the Wayne murders in the Nolanverse.

In the DCEU (at least so far) there's no inherent special significance to the Wayne murders. The world doesn't make sense... unless Bruce forces it to.

[Silver Nemesis]

What I (perhaps wrongly interpreted) is that the League used economics to cripple Gotham which caused their financial problems... and their crime problems... and indirectly positioned Chill to murder the Waynes. All unintentional on the League's part, of course, but a consequence of their actions nevertheless.

Assuming I'm right, there was a deeper meaning and an ugly cause behind the Wayne murders in the Nolanverse.

That was always my take on the situation. Obviously the League didn't actively pursue the Waynes' deaths (the fallout from their martyrdom only frustrated Ra's' earlier plan for the economic and social destabilisation of Gotham). But the fact remains Chill was driven to desperation as a result of the recession engineered by the League. In that sense, Ra's was indirectly responsible for the Waynes' deaths.

[The Laughing Fish]

Here are two fascinating videos on YouTube analysing the opening scene of the film.

Off-topic: the first video does read too deeply into similarities and contrasts in scenes between MOS, BvS, and WW. But it occurred to me while listening to the analysis on 14:07 about how the sunlight woke Superman up after he destroyed the World Engine in MOS, the sunlight motif repeats in BvS when Superman's body is restored and he regains consciousness soon after the nuclear missile had struck him and Doomsday in space.