"It's Penguin, I am not a human being....I am an animal!!"

[Bobthegoon89]

I'll never understand why various fans despise Batman Returns simply because of it's portrayl of The Penguin. This often appears to be the main reason why so many hate Tim Burton. In short what is the big f***ing deal?

Returns has often been granted the uncredited title of "Tim Burton's Batman Returns". This wouldn't be far from the truth in honesty. It's his version of Gotham City and it's populace. And you know what, what on earth is the problem there? Frankly it works contrary to some geeky opinions. As Stan Winston says on the dvd the "Beetlejuice-like" face make up (white skin with black marks around the eyes) works perfectly for the character and also gives him that required creepy tone. It's ironic that years later we got a Joker as imagined by Nolan that also had great big black splodges around his eyes in almost a Tim Burton tribute. Now I don't know about you but I never recalled the Joker having such perdy eyeliner before. I never disliked however and was willing to accept it. Slight changes to a character never bother me as long as their esscence remains (it is the same with Bane and that snazzy coat they added rather greatly). I find it bemusing however that fans can single out The Penguin of 1992 and praise this rather radical (and bizaare) new look for The Joker however.

Fact is certain things in a comic do not always retain their impact when translated to screen. Burgess Meredith's 100% translation of The Penguin worked because the tone of that tv series was right for it. Take that version and slap it into Batman Returns (as some fans believed should have been the case) and you'd have a very poor follow up to Jack Nicholson's Joker.

The origin story of The Penguin in the comics I've always found crap. How many comic villains have been bullied at school and decide to use their cruel nicknames as their modus operandi? Scarecrow, Marvel's Dr Octopus ect. It's a total cliche. Frankly that story of a kid with a love for birds and the need to carry an umbrella is such a poor concept for a film script. It's nowhere near as edgy or scary as an Alan Moore Joker origin or Sam Hamm's iteration of The Joker as always being a raving lunatic. Fact is the filmmakers needed a strong follow up to Jack Nicholson's Joker and with The Penguin in an unsatisfactory shape they made him a stronger character while still keeping his esscence. Daniel Waters (and uncredited writer Wesley Strick's) ideas for the sequel were a vast improvement to me. Making him literally "The Penguin" added a much need scare factor and obvious sympathy, both traits found in villains in stories like The Killing Joke? I still found myself having a little chuckle when Batman clearly towers over Cobblepot in their final battle but his mutant form also gave him a much needed threat-factor against the Dark Knight. The filmmakers clearly added elements of the popular "Mutant Leader" from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

The thing which really should have been incorporated into the comics was the idea of The Penguin's parents and their wealthy backgrounds. Having them as a dark and twisted version of the Wayne's wouldv'e made for some interesting stories. I wanted to know more about Esther and Tucker Cobblepot and DC totally wasted a creative well there I think. It further goes back to the popular idea of having villains with a strong connection to Batman/Bruce Wayne. It even helps with that attitude of The Penguin feeling he truly belongs amongst high society. Where else would there be a reason for that monocle, umbrella and cigarrete holder? It's a pitty the concept of Max Schreck as Penguin's brother was dropped. That too may have given Christopher Walken's character a entry into the comic world. One of the plot holes for me of Batman Returns is where did the Cobblepot's fortune go after their deaths? The Penguin would certainly be entitled to that (for once!). Having Schreck as the brother would have clearly resolved this and built up further an antagonism between them.

Changing characters around is done so often these days it makes this Penguin criticism look absolutely bloody stupid. Especially when they are sometimes praised for their efforts. What about Alfred Molina's Dr Octopus, complete with his tragic wife Rosie and those sentient robotic tentacles (who are more the villains of Spider-Man 2 than Ock himself is)? Then there's Ra's Al Ghul who not only steals the identity of another comic character (Henri Ducard) but also lacks any Lazarus Pits to make him the demonic, immortal threat fans know and love? A villain more outlandish and demonic in fact on the page than anything put on screen in Burton's Penguin. Or how about Bane clearly lacking that venom enhanced strength? Might make punching through a concrete pillar that much more difficult (still he goes and does it toward the end of Rises). I could go on and mention the drastic changes made to Marvel's Doctor Doom but I won't. That clearly didn't work so the idea of changing a character isn't entirely successful. But for The Penguin it did. Isn't about time we let go of all this daft criticisms therefore and grant credit where it's due?

[thecolorsblend]

My hope is that the anti-Burton sentiment will die down when people realize Nolan reinvented/changed at least as much stuff as Burton did. The Penguin is a good example, in fact. The Penguin always had a taste for high society and the finer things. All Burton did was give him a reason for it and throw in some deformities for good measure.

Meanwhile, Nolan wholesale reinvented several characters.

This may sound mean, elitist, condescending or whatever else but I don't care. I firmly believe that if Burton had used the name "Rupert Thorne" rather than "Max Shreck" in BR and made Penguin more resemble the comics version, the haters would probably keep their mouths shut most of the time. They feel perfectly at liberty to criticize aesthetics and appearances but are way the fvck out of their depth when it comes to plot analysis or character study. You only need a room temperature IQ to say that something is or isn't attractive to you. But meaningful commentary about the nuts and bolts of plot and character require some brains... which is why you hear gripes about how small Keaton was, how ugly Penguin's teeth were, how Selina should've been a brunette but not much on how similar Shreck is to Thorne except name and appearance. Appearances are always easier to criticize (which is one reason why the "bat nipples" sh!t really gets under my skin these days). And that's all some folks are really qualified to talk about.

[The Dark Knight]

Reclaim your birthright - he chooses to spit out the cigarette holder and bite the guy's nose.

DeVito's Penguin was having a constant struggle with his animalistic desires and nature. To be what he had always been deep down in the sewer.

Max thrust upon him a new, civilised world which promised so much. Women, power and respect.

He would view this as a distraction at points, but in others he'd be into it. But as soon as it fell through, he relapsed big time.

He put down the martini glasses and bubbly and picked up a pot of raw fish.

Burton's Penguin has the material and iconography there, just differently.

[The Laughing Fish]

After watching The Elephant Man earlier this month, I'm fascinated by the contrasts between that film and BR over the freakish characters and the world surrounding them.

As the majority of people in London in TEM love to gawk, shriek in horror and play along with visiting poor Merrick but secretly revel in their disgust at his physical deformity, the people of Gotham City in BR are more compassionate, albeit easily fooled. They overlook the Penguin's freakish appearance because they're genuinely charmed by his apparent kindness and charisma, unaware of his true sinister nature.

Merrick occasionally suffers from abuse, but he slowly begins to be treated with dignity as people get to know him better and are touched by his compassion, wit and loving personality. In the end, he gains the respect from the wider public, as the audience in the theater give him a standing ovation. Whereas in BR, the Penguin loses respect because of his conniving personality. After Batman exposes him, Oswald escapes by diving into the lake from the angry mob and retreats back to the zoo; it not only mirrored how his parents abandoned him in the beginning of the film, but he ultimately rejects any sort of humanity and birth name altogether. Hence, he recites the very same quote that this thread is titled after, which is worded oppositely from Merrick's heartbreaking plea for humanity earlier on in TEM.

I'd like to see DeVito's Penguin replacing Merrick in TEM and serve the role as the antagonist hellbent on terrorising London. His fashion sense would definitely fit well in the Victorian era.

But putting that little joke aside, I'm sad to know John Merrick was actually based on a true story. How tragic.