Dexter: Original Series/New Blood/Original Sin/Resurrection

Started by thecolorsblend, Sun, 10 Oct 2021, 05:41

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Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 20 Aug  2024, 15:27And so we have season seven, a cataclysmic (sorry Colors) disaster
Based on your criticisms, it seems that some elaboration is in order.

Basically, I like the Isaac Sirko aspects of season 07. He's a good villain and for once, a season's villain has a personal grudge against Dexter. Historically, that hasn't been the case on the show. Plus, the viewer is expect some sort of pitched battle between Sirko and Dexter. Instead, Dexter is forced to team up with Sirko to rescue Hannah. Considering that previous seasons usually end with the villain splayed out on Dexter's table, this subversion of expectations is pretty welcome in my book. Because ultimately, Dexter isn't the one who wipes Sirko out.

I like that precisely because of what it says about Dexter. He willingly spared Hannah (who deserved what Dexter was about to do to her) and he was unable to take Isaac out. For me, that says a lot about how much Dexter has lost his way. Turns out, Harry was kind of right when he said that personal relationships would be a distraction for Dexter. His relationships with Rita, Lumen and, ultimately, Hannah took him off his game.

Now, yes, the show never truly addresses that implicit subplot. Or at least, it doesn't entirely resolve it. But the subplot still exists. And for me, that stuff is a big reason why season 07 plays like gangbusters. Because Dexter in season 01 would've taken Sirko out pretty swiftly. But by season 07, he was more than a match for Dexter even tho he shouldn't have been.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 20 Aug  2024, 15:27I wont even justify the incest plot with an analysis except to say that the story began as an obvious plant late in season six trying to sell you early on the nonsense that was coming.
Apparently, that isn't the case. When I was watching the pilot episode for the first time, I even wondered about Deb. She seemed pretty affectionate toward Dexter considering their adopted sibling relationship. So, I wondered if something was going to happen there.

Jennifer Carpenter claims that she was told literally from day one that Deb was subconsciously in love with Dexter. Because of that, she knowingly incorporated that aspect of Deb's character into her performance. And... I think it adds up. I mean, yes, it's very strange. Adopted or not, they grew up together as kind of siblings. That's not an easy foundation to change.

But I can kind of see it. Deb interpreted Harry's treatment of Dexter as favoritism. It wasn't, obviously, but that's still how Deb saw it. More than anything, she wanted Harry's approval. And she never quite got it to the level that she wanted. So, I think she would be capable of clinging to Dexter as sort of the next best thing. Combine that with losing both her parents when she was barely old enough to drink, and I think it makes a lot of sense that Deb would fall for her "brother".

It also makes sense that she would lash out at first if someone ever questioned her about it. But she would mull all that over and take some time with it. And... in a horrifying moment of self-realization, yeah, she'd realize that's exactly what happened.

Frankly, I buy that subplot. I also buy that discovering Dexter's true nature would put the kibosh on those feelings forever. She would love him as a brother, of course. But anything more than that would be impossible to her.

I mean, incest subplots are very uncomfortable to watch in media. Even if they're between adopted family members. Nobody (hopefully) enjoys that. I'm just saying that I think it makes a certain amount of sense for Deb to feel that way about Dexter. And it makes perfect sense that Dexter would NEVER be able to see Deb that way.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 20 Aug  2024, 16:30
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 20 Aug  2024, 15:27And so we have season seven, a cataclysmic (sorry Colors) disaster
Based on your criticisms, it seems that some elaboration is in order.

Basically, I like the Isaac Sirko aspects of season 07. He's a good villain and for once, a season's villain has a personal grudge against Dexter. Historically, that hasn't been the case on the show. Plus, the viewer is expect some sort of pitched battle between Sirko and Dexter. Instead, Dexter is forced to team up with Sirko to rescue Hannah. Considering that previous seasons usually end with the villain splayed out on Dexter's table, this subversion of expectations is pretty welcome in my book. Because ultimately, Dexter isn't the one who wipes Sirko out.

I like that precisely because of what it says about Dexter. He willingly spared Hannah (who deserved what Dexter was about to do to her) and he was unable to take Isaac out. For me, that says a lot about how much Dexter has lost his way. Turns out, Harry was kind of right when he said that personal relationships would be a distraction for Dexter. His relationships with Rita, Lumen and, ultimately, Hannah took him off his game.

Now, yes, the show never truly addresses that implicit subplot. Or at least, it doesn't entirely resolve it. But the subplot still exists. And for me, that stuff is a big reason why season 07 plays like gangbusters. Because Dexter in season 01 would've taken Sirko out pretty swiftly. But by season 07, he was more than a match for Dexter even tho he shouldn't have been.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 20 Aug  2024, 15:27I wont even justify the incest plot with an analysis except to say that the story began as an obvious plant late in season six trying to sell you early on the nonsense that was coming.
Apparently, that isn't the case. When I was watching the pilot episode for the first time, I even wondered about Deb. She seemed pretty affectionate toward Dexter considering their adopted sibling relationship. So, I wondered if something was going to happen there.

Jennifer Carpenter claims that she was told literally from day one that Deb was subconsciously in love with Dexter. Because of that, she knowingly incorporated that aspect of Deb's character into her performance. And... I think it adds up. I mean, yes, it's very strange. Adopted or not, they grew up together as kind of siblings. That's not an easy foundation to change.

But I can kind of see it. Deb interpreted Harry's treatment of Dexter as favoritism. It wasn't, obviously, but that's still how Deb saw it. More than anything, she wanted Harry's approval. And she never quite got it to the level that she wanted. So, I think she would be capable of clinging to Dexter as sort of the next best thing. Combine that with losing both her parents when she was barely old enough to drink, and I think it makes a lot of sense that Deb would fall for her "brother".

It also makes sense that she would lash out at first if someone ever questioned her about it. But she would mull all that over and take some time with it. And... in a horrifying moment of self-realization, yeah, she'd realize that's exactly what happened.

Frankly, I buy that subplot. I also buy that discovering Dexter's true nature would put the kibosh on those feelings forever. She would love him as a brother, of course. But anything more than that would be impossible to her.

I mean, incest subplots are very uncomfortable to watch in media. Even if they're between adopted family members. Nobody (hopefully) enjoys that. I'm just saying that I think it makes a certain amount of sense for Deb to feel that way about Dexter. And it makes perfect sense that Dexter would NEVER be able to see Deb that way.
I will admit that I like Ray Stevenson. I think his performance does a lot of heavy lifting, especially since much of his story-line feels like they're writing it as they go, but it isn't helped by Ray's scheduling issues that forced him to wrap up early or the general feeling of a flatness in the writing that has been around since season five. I like the team up, but it all feels extremely contrived. The turning of his underling just kind of happens. It isn't really precipitated by anything, they just need it to be a thing.

One note on Hannah. Dexter might be lost, but the show insists that Hannah is the person who finds him and puts him back on track. Unacceptable, considering who she is. The shows insistence on this dominates season eight and feels like fan fiction. Play all the soft sweet music you want, she was on the table for a reason, a reason that gets waved in the face of a Dexter who refuses to see. Then season eight forgets and decides she's a damsel that needs saving. (Rest in peace Julian Sands.)

As for Jennifer Carpenter's claims, I have no reason to doubt her, but I don't track it at all and I suppose that's the thing, it all comes down to whether you buy it or not. It is the axle upon which all must revolve. If it clicks with you then the season works, and it isn't my place to tell you that you are wrong. You can't really be wrong here. Nobody watches the same movie/tv show. You saw and felt what you did. What I would ask is for you to meet me half way, accept that I never saw it, never felt that from her, and what that would feel like if you didn't see it. Contrived, like you can see the machinery turning and all to keep the cash cow producing. It has nothing to do with feeling uncomfortable, there is so much more to be freaked out by this show than siblings boffing, it's just that that the salesman isn't good at selling and I'm not buying.

And there's that word again. Contrived. Dexter always had this problem and it was a tiger that had to be tamed every season. I suppose it was inevitable that it would catch up and feast, especially since the suits wouldn't let their biggest show go, and of course there was also the mandate that Dexter never die or face consequences. Enter the series finale.

Speaking of which, I saw it and have nothing really to say except that it confirmed my aforementioned suspicions that the suits had way too much say in the creative side of the show. Deb, irretrievable, must be sacrificed so the cash cow can say goodbye for now, but not forever.

I've also seen the first two episodes of New Blood and so far I love it. I know that has a lot to do with it being a belated return that uses the long hiatus, the new location, and new people as a way to lose all the scar tissue of the original series' two year death spiral. Having Clyde Phillips back injects an energy that was absent from the last season, which felt tired, unfocused, and going through the motions. I especially like the cinematography and Clyde's attention to making Iron Lake a character the way Miami felt like one. I  instantly fell in love with the quiet New England setting. Dexter comes to Stephen King Country.

Anyway. On I go!

Wed, 21 Aug 2024, 22:48 #22 Last Edit: Tue, 27 Aug 2024, 12:59 by thecolorsblend
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 21 Aug  2024, 14:28It has nothing to do with feeling uncomfortable, there is so much more to be freaked out by this show than siblings boffing, it's just that that the salesman isn't good at selling and I'm not buying.
I assumed that was at least partly your objection. If I'm wrong, then that's on me.

I didn't have a big problem with Remember The Monsters. But it was definitely divisive. Still, the last few minutes of the episode play for me the same way as the conclusion of TDKRises, where different characters have their moment of daydreaming that Batman somehow survived the explosion. Same thing here. What I thought we were seeing in the final minutes of the finale was Hannah's wish that Dexter somehow survived the hurricane.

Obviously, that interpretation had to go straight out the window the instant New Blood was announced.

I'm very interested in your views on New Blood. There are definitely moments where the Phillips influence comes out in full force and it feels like the show's glory days. Clancy Brown is a great addition to the cast as well.

Hope you're enjoying the ride.

Mon, 26 Aug 2024, 14:30 #23 Last Edit: Tue, 27 Aug 2024, 14:14 by Gotham Knight
So I'm just going to be mister contrarian all around it seems. I loved New Blood...like...really loved it. It's damn near my favorite season.

It's my understanding that the big criticism the show draws was for the ending. To an extent I can understand that. They wanted Dexter captured and in Miami, they wanted him to face Angel, Quinn, Mathews, Masuka, and the fine folks at Miami Metro, but here's the thing. New Blood is pulling double duty. It is an ending, but it also has the task of making you feel like the show used to make you feel. It really can't do that if we're in Miami.

I mentioned last time that part of why NB works is because the time and distance removes us from the scar tissue of the original Series' failings. I now realize it is all of why it works. If you wanted to see the show done right before the end, it had to take you back to why it all worked initially. It worked because Dexter moved through two worlds that brushed against one another, spinning a web, and fighting other players, all in close quarters while trying to balance relationships. It was a web, but the web of Miami was too tangled to play in. So, they place the responsibility on Harrison who carries the weight of finally ending it. And it feels right. "Open up your eyes and look at what you've done!" I gaped. No way!

By time of the letter reading my eyes were wet. It was the only way to say goodbye in a way that allowed the show to hold its head up high and say yeah, actually, I was great.

BUT...

HE LIVES!

I'm now very hesitant about Resurrection. How does one reopen what was ended so nicely? If nothing else, it might improve NB's reputation if it all doesn't work out. I'd like to see people come around on it. Until then, if it has Clyde Phillip's name on it as show-runner, and he has as much to do with it as he did with NB, then I'll trust it. No matter what happens, I'm glad to be here for it.

I liked New Blood well enough, but truth be told I need to watch the whole series all over again as a refresher. It's been a while. I did not see either of these projects coming. At all. I thought Dexter as a franchise was thrown overboard and down in the depths never to be seen again. But here we are. I'm not sure how Dexter himself is resurrected for real other than being a dark passenger for Harrison. But I'm open to be proven wrong there if the execution (ha) is up to scratch. Consider me interested regardless. Same goes for Original Sin. Especially now I'm finding myself more interested in my true crime stuff (Bundy, Ramirez, etc) than fictional entertainment, give or take a few new things that occasionally pique my interest.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 27 Aug  2024, 10:01I liked New Blood well enough, but truth be told I need to watch the whole series all over again as a refresher. It's been a while. I did not see either of these projects coming. At all. I thought Dexter as a franchise was thrown overboard and down in the depths never to be seen again. But here we are. I'm not sure how Dexter himself is resurrected for real other than being a dark passenger for Harrison. But I'm open to be proven wrong there if the execution (ha) is up to scratch. Consider me interested regardless. Same goes for Original Sin. Especially now I'm finding myself more interested in my true crime stuff (Bundy, Ramirez, etc) than fictional entertainment, give or take a few new things that occasionally pique my interest.
Hall did an interview where he hinted at what the deal with Resurrection might be. He pointed out that the ground that Dexter fell on was cold. Very cold. I (and others) took this to mean that Dexter survived New Blood.

And honestly, Angela's case against Dexter is mostly circumstantial. Dexter could have that exact same evidence against him and be 100% innocent. The one thing that can't get swept under the rug is the murder of the deputy. And I have no idea how that can get addressed.

I'll check Resurrection out. But I think Original Sin sounds far more interesting. There's the potential to revisit a lot of the same material from the Early Cuts stuff you can probably still find on YouTube. I'm expecting Original Sin to have far more mojo to it than Resurrection.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 27 Aug  2024, 13:03I'm expecting Original Sin to have far more mojo to it than Resurrection.
I think I agree. Original Sin has the ability to bypass a lot of issues whereas Resurrection has a mountain to climb. From what I'm hearing DR is supposed to be a multiple season thing, and I cannot imagine how it could be anything but Dexter on the run. I can't even see it trying the NB model again. Dexter sets up somewhere else again doesn't work now that Angel knows he's alive. Maybe they try a spin on 'The Fugitive' where Dexter is in the Kimble spot? Seems like the only thing that could reasonably work without the audience balking at it. 

A few comments I've seen say Dexter could've worn a bulletproof vest, which is why he told Harrison where to shoot him. Or the wound simply wasn't fatal. I don't know. I don't believe any of those ideas would've been the original intention. But if they really want a living, breathing Hall back these are the types of hoops they'll have to jump through. Original Sin does offer a cleaner canvass to build on, and the psychology is bound to be strong given we're dealing with the beginnings of a killing career. That aspect captivates me a lot, because it's the very roots of everything that follows.