DC's Legends of Tomorrow

[The Laughing Fish]

The CW is making another TV series that's based on Arrow and The Flash, starring Brandon Routh as the Atom. Here is the debut trailer for the new show.

Now that Sara Lance has been brought back from the dead for a third time, let's hope she punches the sh*t out of her dad for being a petty douchebag on Arrow this season. 

[BatmAngelus]

Agreed. The dead-then-not-dead back and forth they've done with Sara has been ridiculous and hopefully this is the last death and resurrection of her. What's more maddening is the fact that her death was the catalyst for the nosedive that was Arrow Season 3 and kicked off a whole lot of contrived drama. Now, her resurrection seems like an easy band aid for all that. If that's the case, let's hope she does tell everyone she's alive and ends the whole Lance drama & Thea's guilt for good, rather than keep it a secret for some really contrived reason, too. At this point, the less drama over secrets on that show, the better. It's gotten really old.

I'm looking forward to this spin-off more than the next season of Arrow. Glad that the Atom really is going to shrink and that Firestorm is appearing (and not just Stein in civilian form the whole time). Curious if Sara will be resurrected by Nyssa, as well as her reasons for switching to the white costume.

I also think this should be the last spin-off set in this universe, simply 'cause the showrunners can only handle so much and it'll get ridiculous if there's an Atom spin-off plus Firestorm spin-off plus Suicide Squad spin-off, etc. all on the same network. Legends of Tomorrow should be the show to spotlight all the other superhero characters who aren't Arrow or Flash (or their series regular sidekicks).

I also hope this means a little less costumed heroes on Arrow now. Keep it to him, Thea's Speedy, Black Canary, and whatever mask/costume they might have for Diggle, with the occasional Flash, Atom, or White Canary visit.

Season 3 felt like these other characters were all shoved in- The Atom's origin felt like it was just there to set up the spin-off and have a third wheel in an Oliver-Felicity love triangle, Katana was way underused (made no sense to me that she didn't want to join in saving the city from the epidemic that killed her son), and Wildcat was a joke.

When it comes to the series regulars, Arsenal barely played a role into things and Thea's development into Speedy was rushed. Laurel's transformation into Black Canary was probably handled the best out of the group and even then, it could've been handled more organically. Hell, her trademark Canary Cry wasn't even covered in Arrow, it came about in the Flash. And when it WAS used in Arrow, none of the other characters seemed to care.

[The Laughing Fish]

Agreed. The dead-then-not-dead back and forth they've done with Sara has been ridiculous and hopefully this is the last death and resurrection of her. What's more maddening is the fact that her death was the catalyst for the nosedive that was Arrow Season 3 and kicked off a whole lot of contrived drama. Now, her resurrection seems like an easy band aid for all that. If that's the case, let's hope she does tell everyone she's alive and ends the whole Lance drama & Thea's guilt for good, rather than keep it a secret for some really contrived reason, too. At this point, the less drama over secrets on that show, the better. It's gotten really old.

Quentin can feel angry at Laurel all he wants, but the fact of the matter is she eventually told him the truth about Sara. It's not like he found out thanks to someone else. Laurel was only keeping her sister's death a secret because she was worried that the devastating news could further damage her dad's ailing health (which miraculously disappeared after he learned the truth). But later on, she couldn't cope with the guilt of lying to him any longer and thought it was best to do the right thing. Instead, it turned out she was woefully mistaken because Quentin's pettiness nearly destroyed Team Arrow. Apart from undoing all the good work in building Quentin Lance's character, the most offensive thing about his turnaround is the message that the show is saying to the audience: "Don't ever tell your parents the truth because they might take the news very badly".

Another extremely dumb thing about Arrow this season is this: the police discovers the Arrowcave underneath the Vermont nightclub, but they didn't bother to arrest Oliver and company for being accessories after the fact and obstructing justice. It makes Quentin look even more stupid, doesn't it? Especially when he boasted how he finally caught Oliver.  Quentin Lance used to be one my favourite characters of this show, and the way the writers took a big dump on his character, as well as all the idiotic plot holes that have plagued this season, was an absolute disgrace.

As much as I have been enjoying The Flash's debut season, I'm beginning to feel very worried for that show's future. What if the reason The Flash has been good so far is because we're only being introduced to Barry Allen's story? After all, if the same people behind both shows could screw up the other one so badly, then who can guarantee that The Flash won't suffer the fate like Arrow's third season one day? In fact, there are a couple of things from this week's Flash episode that didn't make much sense e.g. Oliver suddenly taking the time to help Barry stop Reverse-Flash, and Barry being betrayed by Captain Cold...yet according to this trailer, we're supposed to believe that he'll still trust Captain Cold in Legends of Tomorrow?!

[BatmAngelus]

Anyone check this out yet? So far, it's been a lot of fun, though I liked part 1 more than part 2 of the pilot and I think it does well in capturing each of the characters in its expansive cast.

In other news, Stephen Amell will be guest starring in episode 6, sporting the Neal Adams goatee and will have an arm missing like in The Dark Knight Returns, alongside Connor Hawke. Apparently in this continuity, Connor will not be Oliver and Sandra's son. Considering that the character is multi-racial, I'm thinking that maybe Connor is a descendant of John and Lyla Diggle.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01/28/dark-knight-returns-inspired-version-of-green-arrow-to-appear-on-legends-of-tomorrow

The news feels more exciting than the last two seasons of Arrow...

[The Laughing Fish]

I watched the two-part pilot, and the crossover episodes on The Flash and Arrow as well. Both were prequels serving to LOT, and we get introduced to Vandal Savage, Hawkgirl and Hawkman. We get a fairly good backstory to the latter duo, who keep getting reincarnated ever since they were first killed by Vandal Savage in ancient Egypt, and he keeps killing them over again to gain immortality.

It's okay. Not quite as good as The Flash, but that doesn't matter. Still early days.

The news feels more exciting than the last two seasons of Arrow...

Doesn't surprise me. The Arrow crossover episode had more unnecessary drama of Oliver keeping a secret about his son from Felicity and the two fight, and IIRC, break up. Oliver's distress leads him to making a terrible tactical decision which results Vandal Savage killing the Hawks and dooming everyone else in Star City. Luckily, Flash was able to change the timeline. But of course, it goes to show how dumb Arrow has become nowadays when Oliver and company are still being duped by Merlyn, who (once, if I remember right) looks to have brought Savage back to life after collecting his ashes. As I said elsewhere, I won't bother wasting with Arrow any more, unless it involves future crossover episodes.

I think I like Jefferson Jackson better than Ronnie Raymond, and the contrast between Jackson's jock personality to Martin Stein makes for a better partnership. It helps that he gets to wear the classic Firestorm costume too.

I'd say Brandon Routh was one of the few highlights of Arrow last season. And I like him better here now that he's more of a scientist than the big shot of a corporation, which rightly or wrongly made comparisons to Tony Stark (without Robert Downey Jr.'s snarky humour). Though I still see occasional complaints that he's a combination of Iron Man and Ant-Man. I haven't read too many comics or watched too much material involving Atom before, but from what I've seen, he comes across as a bit more passive than Henry Pym, who is a known pacifist. So I can forgive the producers for wanting Atom to be equipped for having a armored suit.

Call it nitpicking, but I still can't get behind the idea that Heat Wave and Captain Cold were selected to join a group of other heroes.

I can't help but feel that Hawkman wasn't originally supposed to appear in LOT, because we didn't see him in the first trailer at all. In fact, Arrow and The Flash don't even address the group with Rip Hunter at all, and the whole scene was completely re-shot.

***SPOILERS***Now that Savage has killed Hawkman, I guess that Hawkgirl's desire for revenge will grow with Carter and Dr. Aldous Boardman gone. If not, she'll definitely have an important arc for the remainder of the season.

[BatmAngelus]

I'm thinking that Hawkman was meant to be the one to bring Kendra into the world and then make his exit early on.

That trailer was mainly a promo piece that they used to sell the show and before they finished writing the pilot, which is why none of the moments from it ended up in the pilot episodes and certain elements, such as Oliver wearing the old Arrow suit and being there on the rooftop, Flash joining the fight against Savage with no Hawkman in sight, and Sara's resurrection, are all different from the canon.

[BatmAngelus]

Well it looks like Season 2 will focus on the JSA. While this is exciting, I haven't been too impressed with the portrayal of JSA characters in the Arrowverse so far.

Wildcat was underwhelming and a letdown.

Jay Garrick is now just a disguise for Hunter Zolomon (though we'll see if he's actually the "Man in the iron mask" that people will hope).

Hawkman's character is rather boring and pretty inferior to the Michael Shanks version in Smallville. Same with Hawkgirl compared to her JL/JLU cartoon incarnation.

Atom Smasher from both Earth One and Earth Two are dead, with the Earth One version just being an innocent victim and the Earth Two version being a villain.

Dinah Drake Lance is just a mom. You could say that Sara/White Canary can take her place since she's technically the original Black Canary in this show.

And Hourman's cameo last night was also eh. I like Patrick Adams on Suits, but he seems to lack the gravitas required for a JSA character.

Other potential members on the JSA roster:
- The Spectre/Jim Corrigan- now that Constantine is in continuity, perhaps we'll see Emmett Scanlan take on the role and get to become the Spectre.
- Dr. Fate- since his helmet appears in the Constantine pilot
- Atom- maybe we'll see the Al Pratt version. Perhaps in this continuity, Pratt is the Earth Two Atom or he's gonna be Palmer's successor.
- Red Tornado- Supergirl takes place on an alternate earth and they had their version. Perhaps we'll see the Earth One equivalent.
- Power Girl- perhaps Melissa Benoist can guest star as this Earth's Kara, aka Power Girl. Though she wouldn't be a regular since she has to lead her own show with Supergirl.

Arrow's Mister Terrific and Flash's Jesse Quick are also JSA members, though neither have evolved into their heroic personas yet.

[The Laughing Fish]

I caught up and finished watching the first season yesterday.

Plotwise, I think the show is a mess. Particularly the part where Mick Rory sells the entire team out to the pirates, and then Snart has him abandoned in the middle of nowhere until the Time Masters recruit Mick and turn him into another Chronos. And Ray Palmer, Kendra Saunders and Sara Lance are stuck in the fifties for two years, while Sara trains with the League of Assassins and gets brainwashed, until her and the team reunite to stop Mick/Chronos. It's rather odd that Hawkman was the first casualty in the pilot, but he gets reincarnated in the last three episodes of the season. It's all over the place for my taste, but time travel has always been like that.

But you know? I don't care! This show is so fun to watch. 

Brandon Routh may have underwhelmed as Superman, but he owns the role Ray Palmer/The Atom. Love his quips and references to pop culture. Dominic Purcell as Mick Rory grows into the role similar to the angry anti-hero type reminding me a little like Hugh Jackman's Wolverine (without the beserker rage). Favourite line moment from him is asking "Why does this station only play reruns?" when watching Welcome Back, Kotter on TV, completely oblivious he's in the seventies.

Wentworth Miller's voice as Leonard Snart is as goofy as David Caruso from CSI Miami. Makes me laugh. But we'll see if he's dead for real, or they'll rewrite back in the story through time travel.

Sara Lance had more an easygoing personality than she had on Arrow, with her camaraderie with Snart and other members of the group. Though it made me roll my eyes when this time - her sister Laurel has died. 

I'll definitely be checking the second season.