The Death of "Superman Lives:" What Happened?

[zDBZ]

Anyone else caught this documentary?

It was clearly made on a budget, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. I don't know how good a film Superman Lives would have been, but it would certainly have been interesting, and it would have been a much sharper break from the "established" cinematic Superman than anything done on film and TV since has been.

[riddler]

I did. Check the 'miscellaneous Burton' forum for my thoughts on it

[thecolorsblend]

I rather enjoyed it. I might've wanted a title card to say something like "Watch the first Evening With Kevin Smith DVD for his take on what happened" and then skipped him and his buffoonery altogether. But Smith is still a marquee name for some of this documentary's core audience so he pretty much had to be included even though his participation repeats stuff he's said in depth elsewhere.

It does give a different spin on the movie though. I don't think fandom will ever admit they had that movie all wrong (or at least prejudged it) but from my view it's just not open to debate that the movie Burton would've made isn't the movie people feared. Or at least not entirely.

Above all, it amuses me that a movie that never even existed has what amounts to a Behind the Scenes DVD special. Burton wasn't kidding when he said the only thing they didn't make for that movie was the movie itself.

[riddler]

here are are a bunch of points I found interesting;
1) Kevin Smith re iterated the 3 rules he was given by Jon Peters; supes can't fly, can't wear the suit, and has to fight a giant spider. Peters denies not allowing him to fly
2) surprisingly Smith admits his first choice for director was Tim Burton based on the success of his batman films. I found this interesting as Smith has criticized Burton for departing from the comics. Smith blames the projects failure as having too many cooks in the kitchen (too many people making too many demands)
3) Burton acknowledged that he hated super heroes, when asked why he made Batman Returns, he indicated that he learned a lot making the first film and wanted to apply what he learned to a sequel.
4) When asked about Jim Carrey as Brainiac, Burton's response was "was he even born yet" (interesting because it was just mentioned he played the Riddler.) Burton confirmed his choice for Brainiac was Christopher Walken.
5) It seems Nicholas Cage was the only choice for supes. Cage said that while he stayed attached to the character after Burton left, he dropped out around 2002. He wasn't interested in the nostalgic version which ended up being Superman Returns. Cage stated he wanted to turn the character upside down.
6) Something kind of humorous is that Bryan Singer had a picture of Cage in the superman suit which he flashed at WB several times when receiving resistance on choices in SR saying "this is what you wanted"
7) Burton acknowledged he'd usually done dark films he said he wanted a challenge of doing a lighter film.
8 ) In Smiths first script (which had the death of super man), Batman addresses metropolis about their fallen hero. This is something WB enjoyed. It was never stated who was slated to play Batman.
9) Tim Burton had dissention with WB as he felt Joel Schumacher F****d up the Batman franchise.
10)interesting side note; in the first Batman film it was actually filmed at the begging for Keaton to tell johnny gobs "I'm Batman mother f**er" WB censoring out the profanity
11) Confirmed that Chris Rock was cast as Jimmy Olson. Also confirmed that Kevin Spacey was the only choice for Lex Luthor
12) the main reason for the nixing of the project is that WB had far too many big budget flops from 96-98: Steel, Batman and Robin, Sphere, the Postman, Major league abck to the minors, Mad City. There were a lot of exectutives fired at WB during that period. At the end of the day they didnt feel Tim could bring a commercial superman to the screen starring Nicolas Cage. It was too dangerous of a film at the time and couldn't afford another bomb. At 1998 it wasn't completelly cancelled, it was only deferred for a potential 2000 shoot with funds and resources deferred to Wild Wild West. Brainiac concepts were used on Kenneth Branaughs character with the giant spider used in the finale. Of course WWW bombed as well which pretty much killed Superman.
13 ) Jon Peters talked about casting Keaton as Batman he said clean and sober is what sold him citing he thought Keaton was a genius. He did say the first batman was his favourite movie he ever produced
14) One thing I wasn't able to deduce is if it would have been a sequel to the Reeves films. Peters, Smith, Burton, and Cage all indicate they wanted to show a superman that had never been done in live action before.
15) Jon Peters called Kevin Smith an amateur and cited his script was not very good.
16) Krypton and Kryptionian technology would have been a big concept in the first act with Kryptonian technology reviving superman.
17) Brett Rattner and McG were the next directors attached after Tim Burton left the project. Basically once Burton committed to Sleepy Hollow he never again had serious discussions to return.
18) Jon Peters believes JJ Abrams Flyby script was the best one never produced, mainly due to a required budget of about $300 mil. One big change in that script would have been making Lex Luthor a Kyrptonian. This was the last rejected script prior to Singer signing on for Superman Returns. He did speak highly of Singers vision but felt Man of Steel was better mainly because it explored outer space and Krypton mroe.
19) As far as how close it got, they were less than a month from shooting before it got nixed. The shoot would have been in Pittsburgh.

[thecolorsblend]

18) Jon Peters believes JJ Abrams Flyby script was the best one never produced, mainly due to a required budget of about $300 mil. One big change in that script would have been making Lex Luthor a Kyrptonian. This was the last rejected script prior to Singer signing on for Superman Returns. He did speak highly of Singers vision but felt Man of Steel was better mainly because it explored outer space and Krypton mroe.

Abrams apparently deleted that aspect of the character in the next draft of the script.

It's an interesting behind the scenes story as Abrams tells it. He touched on it in an essay he wrote about how the Internet has affected filmmaking. His point was that once upon a time, filmmakers could work through their creative process in relative secrecy until the movie's premiere. The Internet has, according to Abrams, robbed filmmakers of their artistic evolution. Films develop negative buzz based on ideas or concepts that the filmmaker discarded six months before the rumors began floating around. But it becomes an albatross that the filmmaker is never able to overcome in the modern age.

The example he used from his own work was Lex Luthor in Flyby. He wrote he started Lex out as a fellow Kryptonian in the first draft, refined him into a CIA agent (or some such) in the second draft and supposedly would've turned him into the CEO of Lexcorp in the third draft... but there isn't a third draft of the script because he no sooner realized the CIA agent concept wouldn't work than rumors about the Kryptonian thing leaked online... and killed his movie.

His point was that he was on his way to making a movie Superman fans might've really loved... but we'll never know because the fans themselves killed it.

[The Laughing Fish]

It's an interesting behind the scenes story as Abrams tells it. He touched on it in an essay he wrote about how the Internet has affected filmmaking. His point was that once upon a time, filmmakers could work through their creative process in relative secrecy until the movie's premiere. The Internet has, according to Abrams, robbed filmmakers of their artistic evolution. Films develop negative buzz based on ideas or concepts that the filmmaker discarded six months before the rumors began floating around. But it becomes an albatross that the filmmaker is never able to overcome in the modern age.

This only makes me wonder how Iron Man 3 managed to get away with doing that Mandarin plot twist. I remember a few websites spoiling the reveal two months before the film's release, though I was unaware of it at the time because I didn't want to ruin it for myself. Not that I cared really, in fact, I rather enjoyed that unexpected twist. Besides, it's not the first time a film got away with doing drastic changes to villains i.e. making Henri Ducard and Ra's al Ghul the same man. I should mention I just never cared about the Mandarin as a villain anyway.

Something kind of humorous is that Bryan Singer had a picture of Cage in the superman suit which he flashed at WB several times when receiving resistance on choices in SR saying "this is what you wanted"

Heh, and yet, Singer delivers a Superman movie that gets reviled for its unnecessary 'Superman-is-a-dad' plot twist. Or, as the detractors describe it: turning Superman into a stalking deadbeat dad. 

[The Joker]

The example he used from his own work was Lex Luthor in Flyby. He wrote he started Lex out as a fellow Kryptonian in the first draft, refined him into a CIA agent (or some such) in the second draft and supposedly would've turned him into the CEO of Lexcorp in the third draft... but there isn't a third draft of the script because he no sooner realized the CIA agent concept wouldn't work than rumors about the Kryptonian thing leaked online... and killed his movie.

The whole Luthor saga in the Abrams drafts is interesting. If memory serves, Lex Luthor, as presented in the 1st Abrams draft, was introduced as a CIA Agent who essentially investigates paranormal cases like that of say, Fox Mulder from X-Files. It's not till near the climax of the film, where Lex finally reveals to Superman that he is infact Kryptonian himself, which subsequently leads to a battle with Supes that, I would assume for it's time, would have been atleast in some ways similar to Neo vs Agent Smith in Matrix Revolutions.

Now, considering that this initial interpretation Abrams wrote of Lex was what fans and casual fans got a peek at, I can understand how it was viewed as being a huge negative. Given that a change like this, would have dramatically altered the character and may have even led to some sort of influence in the DC comics version as well.

However, there was a 2nd draft, and again, if memory serves, Abrams took a different approach with Lex Luthor for the second go-around. This time introducing Lex as a failed door-to-door shoe salesman sometime following Kal's arrival on Earth. Although Lex has no direct contact with the Kent's or baby Kal, he does witness a Kryptonian space pod that crashes in one of Smallville's open fields one night on his way home. Upon investigating, Lex disovers that the space pod contains a mortally wounded Kryptonian alien (one of many sent out into deep space in search of Kal-El by Ty-Zor I believe), along with being surrounded by some glowing green rocks (of course we know what those are). The Kryptonian alien then suddenly grabs Lex and essentially transfers it's intelligence into Lex. Not taking over his mind, but rather giving Lex an extreme upgrade. Personally, my first time watching the film Limitless, reminded me of what I believe Abrams was going for with his 2nd draft version of Lex. It's during this transference that the dramatic lightning effect is incorporated, followed by rain that literally starts to wash out Lex's hair in the process. The next time we meet Lex is years later, following Clark going to Metropolis, where Lex is CEO of Lexcorp, and basically a Bill Gates/Steve Jobs hybrid in terms of power/influence in the modern world.

Speaking for myself, I found this version of Lex a much improved interpretation by Abrams, and would have had a easier time going with rather the the initial Agent Luthor interpretation that was heckled by the internet community during the early 2000's. Sure, it changes the dynamic between Lex and Superman to some extent, but certainly not to the extent of the 1st draft where Lex is revealed as a full blown Kryptonian. I also don't recall there being a spectacle battle between Supes and Lex in the 2nd draft review either. Any battles Superman had in that draft, was provided by Ty-Zor and his crew.

Similar to Burton's Superman Lives, I've also had a strong interest in the Abrams 'Flyby' scripts as well. I'm sure it may have been as polarizing as some people found Man of Steel to be, but on the flip side it may have also given the Superman film franchise that shot in the arm reboot that was sorely needed and missing from what we ultimately ended up with back in 2006, and as fate would have it, went absolutely no where.


     

[zDBZ]

There are a few Superman Lives scripts floating around the Internet, and I recently read three, one each from Smith, Wesley Strick, and Dan Gilroy.

Smith described his script in the documentary as "real fanboy w**k stuff;" at least he's honest. It was a really poor work IMO. Structurally, the plot wasn't in awful shape, but the dialogue was hokey, Superman had some truly terrible one-liners, and the characterisation of Lois Lane was insufferable.

Strick's script is the most forgettable of the three. I seem to recall liking some of the stuff between Lex and Braniac, but its take on Superman himself was way off.

Gilroy's script was pretty sound IMO. It anticipated some of the stuff that got done with Superman in MoS (existential feelings of not fitting in and all that), but IMO executed them much more effectively, and without denying the audience a chance to see Superman be outwardly idealistic, heroic, and capable of multitasking. I don't know why this script decided to create a Superman who doesn't know he's an alien until he's grown-up and an established superhero, but that angle was as well done as I think it could be. Clark's relationship with Lois, and Lois's with her niece, were well-written as well. It wasn't a perfect script by any means; Supes is too Batman-ish in his first scene, Lex was written out early (and his characterisation was...iffy, at best), Doomsday might as well have been any generic monster (though you could say that of the character in general), and there was some truly terrible "banter" between Supes and Braniac in the final battle. But if this script represented the basic gist of what was going to get shot, and if it saw some further polish (and some careful editing on Burton's part during filming and post), then the film would've been built on solid ground.