Did Batman kill the Ice Princess?

[BatmanFanatic93]

I wonder what would have happened if Chip Shreck had been taken by the Penguin instead of Max.  Would Batman have made any effort to save him? 

Yes he would have cause despite what max has done in the past he wouldn't want chip to die as they are the only family they have left for each other plus if penguin did kill chip & max found out he would hire hitmen & gotham's best swat team to hunt down batman for not saving his son in time but not penguin cause he would be dead like in the film.

[johnnygobbs]

I wonder what would have happened if Chip Shreck had been taken by the Penguin instead of Max.  Would Batman have made any effort to save him? 

Yes he would have cause despite what max has done in the past he wouldn't want chip to die as they are the only family they have left for each other plus if penguin did kill chip & max found out he would hire hitmen & gotham's best swat team to hunt down batman for not saving his son in time but not penguin cause he would be dead like in the film.

I'd have liked to find out that the Ice Princess's nearest and dearest hired a taskforce or hitmen to take down Batman for letting their precious princess die.  I think that's how 'Batman Returns' should have ended.  With Batman still mistrusted by the public.

Anyway, it's not as if Max hadn't placed his son in danger before.  What about the beginning of the film where Max flees for his life whilst leaving his son to deal with the Red Triangle Circus Gang?  Could you see anyone doing that to the Ice Princess?

[BatmanFanatic93]

I'd have liked to find out that the Ice Princess's nearest and dearest hired a taskforce or hitmen to take down Batman for letting their precious princess die.  I think that's how 'Batman Returns' should have ended.  With Batman still mistrusted by the public.

Anyway, it's not as if Max hadn't placed his son in danger before.  What about the beginning of the film where Max flees for his life whilst leaving his son to deal with the Red Triangle Circus Gang?  Could you see anyone doing that to the Ice Princess?

...Man you really love the ice princess huh gobs?   

Anyway, it's not as if Max hadn't placed his son in danger before.  What about the beginning of the film where Max flees for his life whilst leaving his son to deal with the Red Triangle Circus Gang? 

That's why i think he redeemed himself quite abit at the end by letting penguin take him instead of chip just to show he'd rather die than his own son plus let's not forget they plan the whole attack during the celebration & penguin probably told them not to harm chip as he knows max is a powerful man in gotham & would've done anything to make sure he'd have their heads.

[johnnygobbs]

That's why i think he redeemed himself quite abit at the end by letting penguin take him instead of chip just to show he'd rather die than his own son plus let's not forget they plan the whole attack during the celebration & penguin probably told them not to harm chip as he knows max is a powerful man in gotham & would've done anything to make sure he'd have their heads.

Perhaps, but Max doesn't know that.  He believed the Gang were going to kill him, which is why he fled, so for all he knew they might have caused real harm to his 'beloved' son.

I can see Max caring more about his son because of his legacy though.  He wanted Chip, his one and only male heir, to live and carry on the Shreck line and thus one day become as powerful and dominant a fixture in Gotham as the Wayne family had once been.

[Catwoman]

"Don't move, be careful."

The princess then proceeds to nod intently as if this instruction is equivalent to defusing a nuclear weapon.

this made me giggle so hard.

[johnnygobbs]

"Don't move, be careful."

The princess then proceeds to nod intently as if this instruction is equivalent to defusing a nuclear weapon.

This is very funny but what did you expect her to do?  Tell Batman to 'f-off' and put her fingers in her ears whilst hopping from foot to foot and humming a little tune?

[The Dark Knight]

This is very funny but what did you expect her to do?

Stepping off the ledge would've been a good idea. Her feet weren't glued in place.

The joke is the character needed a slow, step by step instructor for everything in life.

She never had to think for herself.

[johnnygobbs]

This is very funny but what did you expect her to do?

Stepping off the ledge would've been a good idea. Her feet weren't glued in place.

The joke is the character needed a slow, step by step instructor for everything in life.

She never had to think for herself.

In that case I think we're in complete agreement. 

Do you think there were always people around her taking care of the basics?  She doesn't strike me as a person who'd know how to cook her own meals or pay her own bills.  However, she was probably a 'straight A student' when it came to filing her nails or choosing which shoes to go with a particular dress.

[Catbat]

I'd like to be proven wrong, but at this moment it does make me quite angry that Batman's action and inaction led to this beautiful woman's death. 

Hi johnnygobbs,
your's an interesting point. Just some thoughts I had on Batman's options and choices.
I guess Batman could have imagined the Ice Princess' kidnapping was conceived as some sort of trap for him, but he couldn't ask for Commissioner Gordon and GPD's help since they already considered him involved in that crime. Second, he had to improvise once he found her and preferred to move quickly instead of studying the battlefield better. Third, there was a big obstacle to the rescue: Catwoman. In my opinion, she played a crucial role in the Ice Princess' bitter end because she forced Batman in a fight and slowed him down - her intervention bought time for the Circus Gang to finally put the Princess on the ledge and inform the GPD of what Batman was apparently going to do on the rooftop.
As long as the non-intervention option is concerned, could Batman have really left the whole rescue to the Police? This might have even worked, but it wouldn't have completely cleared his name, not even if Batman had shared his information on the Princess' whereabouts.
I'm personally not that sure that the Ice Princess would have survived had Batman not showed up: once the Penguin had seen that the bait had not worked, he probably would have her killed anyway, since she knew - at least vaguely! - the truth about the kidnapping...
Hope this has restored your esteem on the Caped Crusader! 

[JokerMeThis]

If Bruce Wayne behaved like a normal person and didn't run around dressed like a bat and take the law into his own hands, including murdering criminals in cold blood, the Ice Princess wouldn't have been kidnapped because Penguin and Catwoman wouldn't have had a need to frame him. I believe that Bruce Wayne has caused a lot of evil to come upon Gotham because of his Batman activities. Gordon pretty much tells him this at the end of Batman Begins.

I think Batman might have froze when he was on the roof with the Ice Princess. Everything happened so fast and we know he isn't all that mentally stable to begin with. If you look closely Batman does start to run towards the Ice Princess right before she falls. I hate to think that this scene wasn't written or directed well. I prefer to think that we're supposed to interpret Batman's response as being meaningful. I think someone once said that Batman might have had a flashback to his parents murder when this was happening. Perhaps it was in the novelization. Unfortunately I've never had the opportunity to read it.