A Response to Jett's "Batman Returns Blogged" at BoF

[Gotham Knight]

?I knew as soon as I saw the opening with Paul ?Pee Wee Herman? Reubens as Daddy Cobblepot and the dumping of young Oswald into the sewer that something was, um ?wrong.??

I fail to see how the dumping of Oswald into the sewers is ?wrong.? I can only assume that you believe that because the holy scriptures that are the comic books never gave much history to Ossy the film should have followed suit because we all know that the director of a comic book film shouldn?t have a thought or idea that could add dimensions to an otherwise single layered character. Nolan?s idea of Scarecrow and Falcone might as well have been cardboard cutouts with a ?bad guy? index card taped to them. For a rogue who before then had very little back story to go on, making the characters history one fraught with tragedy rather than some character arch who suddenly appears with no introduction whatsoever and begins a crime spree seems to be a better storyline decision in my book but oh well. Maybe your grievance lays in the act itself?the parents abandoning their child?cause that doesn?t happen in real life?no sir. For someone who praises Nolan?s ?realism,? you can?t seem to handle the more difficult truths of reality.   

Oh real deep by the way...I wish I could just wave my hand and say 'wrong' without any explanation and expect to be taken seriously.

Don?t worry about young Oswald, he was found by huge Penguins living in the sewers of Gotham. He?s kinda like Tarzan, you know what I?m sayin?? That?s it, Burton?s Penguin is Tarzan?but a Tarzan raised by Penguins, not apes.

It?s a parallel of Moses, Jett, Moses?not Tarzan. I can?t believe someone as learned as you would miss that. I mean come on...it had the basket and everything. And when Penguin talks about getting the ?recognition of his basic humanity? it?s a parallel of Moses wanting his ?brothers? to no longer be slaves?cause slaves are regarded as property...not people? follow me?just checking?I?m sure you have a problem with that too?cause symbolic citations that don?t actually say are BAD. Oh and before you say anything, Bale saying the word symbols a dozen times doesn?t actuality constitute any symbolism.

Penguin was a double-edged sword, like all the other characters. The film centers around duality. On the one hand Penguin is struggling to break the chains that society has shackled on him with its unwillingness to accept what is different and on the other hand he is lashing out for personal blood lust.

What is the deal with this Max Schreck power plant storyline? Yeah, that?s peaking my interest.

Uhuh?a microwave emitter and a ?gassing the city plot? ripped off of Batman 89 is so much better?

?How in the hell does a guy that?s raised by penguins in the sewers of Gotham and then becomes part of a circus freak show, build a huge underground lair??

Yeah, there?s no way that he might have learned anything that wasn?t EXPRESSELY mention in the story. We wouldn?t want the audience to draw any conclusion of their own. Nope. If the director doesn?t take the time TO SPELL IT OUT, then there is no way it happened. We need to take the Nolan approach and be as overly methodical and explicit as possible and treat the audience like they have attention deficit disorder. I ask you Jett, since when does nothing happen off camera?

?WHY IN THE HELL IS HE SITTING ALONE BROODING IN WAYNE MANOR?! Doesn?t Batman patrol Gotham nightly? Oh yeah, I forgot. Bruce is mentally ill, coo coo, whacko, a nutter, etc. etc?.

?dude?it?s a guy in a bat suit?does that equal normal to you? Lets expand the basic structure of the batman back story that has followed him since November 1939 for a moment shall we and see if you get the picture. A kid is scarred enough by the sight of his parents murder to consider his true identity dead and in its place a creature that will be known as Batman in his adulthood? I need go on?I?ll humor you. He grows up and devotes years of his life to intense training so that he can dress up like a Bat and kick the crap out of criminals?even if we assume that he is also a preachy goody goody idealist as Nolan portrays him?he?s still certifiable.

And the fact that the shot was torn from the very pages of Batman comics, which you believe infallible, defeats your point.

Burton?s vision of Batman in Returns was completely legitimate no matter what you think of it. It is in fact more realistic to see Batman as a product of a ?corrupt system? or a ?corrupt society? and though driven to protect the innocent he reflects the moral system of that society. Nolan?s vision of him, while I can at least appreciate to a degree, is far fetched given Batman?s scarred past and the city he grew up in and eventually alienated himself from as a teenaged youth. It?s not impossible, but far fetched. Burton?s is a more realistic depiction, no matter how outwardly quirky the visuals may be.

The rest or your review is filled with rambling nitpicks about the film and warrant no attention.  I agree with a few. For example, Gordon talking to Batman in the way you described Other than that, some of your problems with the film surprise me in just how little you took from the movie.

If you do end up reading this, Jett, and are wondering the point of this ?response,? if of course you didn?t just skim though it, my answer is very simple. You ?fan site? is a biased Nolanite homage to BATMAN BEGINS and that sucks.

PS: I read your tribute to Mr. Ledger. Your only real concern was for the future of the Nolan franchise and you disguised it with your hollow regards to the loss to his family...it made me sick.

[Darth Vader]

Edit it for grammar and post it on as many Batman-related forums as you possibly can.

[Gotham Knight]

I take you approve.

I will try and put in on as many Bat related places I belong to. I am not part of the BoF forums. Is there anywhere I can assure that Jett will see it?  I might send it to the site direct.

EDIT: I've edited the post around for grammar as you've suggested (I discovered some spelling issues) and I changed some wording for clarity and conciseness.

[Darth Vader]

I'm pretty sure he frequents SHH. Over there your "review of a review" would have to be a catchy thread title with his name. For example, he probably doesn't log onto the Misc. Batman forums section; but when he enters the Batman category, with the various section entrances displayed (TDK Spoilers/Non-Spoilers, The Comics, Products, Viral Marketing, etc.), there's always the title of the thread last active in each section. You know what I'm talking about. So if I were you, I'd probably title it something along the lines of... "Jett unmasked." or "Jett's Anti-Burton Idiocy."

When mailing him personally? Your email needs to catch his eye in another way, or he'll not even bother opening it (different from public exposure/criticism, in which he will feel compelled to open).

Pick something troublesome and controversial pertaining to TDK. Out of respect for the dead, try not to have it involve Ledger.

He opens the email, thinking there's potentially hot news to post on his crap website, and BAM, it wasn't what he expected at all.

[PJ]

I'm sorry, but this is getting silly. I am UK editor of BoF and calling Jett "Anti-Burton" is just downright incorrect. He loves B89, it's just that he hates Batman Returns. That's his preference. BoF does currently have a Nolan slant, of course it does. BB happens to be Jett's preferred film and the Nolan films are current. We all have our bias, just look at this site for example. That's not a slight on Raleagh's site. I love it, but it's clear that his preference is the two Burton movies (mine too pretty much).

To say that BoF is completely biased towards Nolan is just not true. Look around a bit more, you'll see lots of stuff by other writers, Jett included, that covers the whole gamut of Batman on film. I have been inactive due to a heavy workload this past year, but I'm hoping to commit more time to BoF, hopefully that might balance things out in the eyes of some.

Don't be so hard on the guy, he receives hundreds and I do mean hundreds of hate mail a day. You may have valid criticisms of some of the things he says, but it will be lost in the deluge of BS he has to deal with on a daily basis.

If you want to express your points, I invite you to the BoF boards. There is currently a great debate going on in the Burton/Schumacher section. Why not show your support for your favourite films there. Either that or write an opinion piece. If it's good Jett will publish it. Just look at how many Op-ed pieces he's already put up.

Here's some of mine for example

http://www.batman-on-film.com/opinion-PJW-June2704.html
http://www.batman-on-film.com/opinion_pjw_forever.html
http://www.batman-on-film.com/opinion_pjw_returnsretrospective.html

I've also blogged the movies in the same way Jett has, they will be up on the site next week.

And a very positive one on BR from Gregg Bray

http://www.batman-on-film.com/opinion_bray_returns.html

The above is evidence that the other movies have a presence over there, Jett's voice is the loudest because the site is his, but don't think for a second that his is the only opinion that counts.

[Darth Vader]

I'm sorry, but this is getting silly. I am UK editor of BoF and calling Jett "Anti-Burton" is just downright incorrect. He loves B89, it's just that he hates Batman Returns. That's his preference. BoF does currently have a Nolan slant, of course it does. BB happens to be Jett's preferred film and the Nolan films are current. We all have our bias, just look at this site for example. That's not a slight on Raleagh's site. I love it, but it's clear that his preference is the two Burton movies (mine too pretty much).

Of course it's his personal preference. Jett seems to minimally vouch for Batman as a character. Supposedly, he is still a Batman fan. Yet remarkably, when I look at batman-on-film.com (though rarely as it may be for me), with the Batman mythology having taken a back seat, and the Nolan franchise clearly having such precedence, Jett's loyalties and the extent thereof are put into full question.

It's beyond a passive Nolan inclination. On top of that, it's a guy who takes his opinion very seriously, and undeniably DOES have a voice in the fan community, a LOUD one just as you stated.

Thus, we'll play the game. We'll take his essays seriously at least on the objective level that he influences newcomers to the mythology. That means answering his less professional work (if you can call ANY of his work professional... what I see from Jett's style is amateurish at best). He opens himself up for scrutiny by the public with his criticisms of Burton. When a prominent voice in the fan community writes misguided ignorance, it is the order of responsible Batman fans to POINT OUT the ignorance, and make it as wide-spread and readable as he has MADE HIS OPINION.

To say that BoF is completely biased towards Nolan is just not true. Look around a bit more, you'll see lots of stuff by other writers, Jett included, that covers the whole gamut of Batman on film. I have been inactive due to a heavy workload this past year, but I'm hoping to commit more time to BoF, hopefully that might balance things out in the eyes of some.

We look forward to it.

Don't be so hard on the guy, he receives hundreds and I do mean hundreds of hate mail a day. You may have valid criticisms of some of the things he says, but it will be lost in the deluge of BS he has to deal with on a daily basis.

Gotham Knight was presented with definite ways to bypass the piles of bullsh*t. If he proceeds, the situation will grow quite interesting, I daresay.

If you want to express your points, I invite you to the BoF boards. There is currently a great debate going on in the Burton/Schumacher section. Why not show your support for your favourite films there. Either that or write an opinion piece. If it's good Jett will publish it. Just look at how many Op-ed pieces he's already put up.

Thanks for the invitation. Nonetheless... do you really believe any comments vaguely critical of Jett will be tolerated? I think not. If we transfer to the BOF forums our valid points against the BR review, for instance, I don't expect those posts to last long; the deletion of naysayers' words and a clean sweep under the rug is a habit I sense is ubiquitous there.

And a very positive one on BR from Gregg Bray

http://www.batman-on-film.com/opinion_bray_returns.html

The above is evidence that the other movies have a presence over there, Jett's voice is the loudest because the site is his, but don't think for a second that his is the only opinion that counts.

I'll take a peek at them later. Thank you for sharing the links.

[Gotham Knight]

While I appreciate your concerns, I have to concur with Darth Vader?s comments (with his entire [post in general} in saying when one have such a loud voice among the fan community, responsiblity with that sway must be considered. If I can I will post this on SHH. I have no doubts that this wouldn't last long on BoF. I doubt I'd be allowed to have just as strong opinions in the other direction.

I also can't see how it?s silly. His rambling blog stirred a response and I wrote one. I feel strongly about my beliefs as he does. I might have a hostile tone in the response, but his 'review' if you can call it that, was brimming with hostility.


I also have to again disagree on the idea that he ISNT biased. Batman Begins isn?t out yet and he?s already hailed it as the greatest Super Hero movie of all time.


Thank you for the links.

[shadowbat69]

Hey PJ! I responded to you in the other thread. However something I didnt really address is that all the biased seems to come from Jett himself. I know there is more "support" for the other films from other contributors, but we're addressing Jett himself and his attitude. Towards both the non Nolan films and others point of views on them. 

[Paul (ral)]

Hi guys, geez you have been busy!

Posting a response on a forum to an article that is bound to evoke a response is fine, but I would reconsider any campaign to get a message to Jett.

He has had plenty of neg responses to his review in the past few days and I don't really think he would care.

I am closing this thread, we don't need two for the one topic.

continue here http://www.batmanmovieonline.com/forum/index.php?topic=139.0