Schumacher's Wayne Manor

[burtongenius]

I don't necessarily hold to the rich being necessarily bad thing but I completely understand what you mean.  The only thing I could think of would be a rich mob family- isn't that where arnold wesker comes from?  Other wise, I would think crime would just come from basic capitalism problems, rich- poor- crime.  (only as it related to rich people- there are plenty of other factors for crime)

[Azrael]

I always liked to imagine that the Waynes were only one of the richest families in Gotham.  I can't help thinking that if the Waynes were truly the most powerful family in the city, things would be a lot better without Bruce having to dress up and fight crime as Batman.  Maybe I'm exposing some of my socialist leanings here, but I genuinely believe that crime often spirals top-down, and that the people at the bottom only turn to crime thanks to the guys at the top of the social pyramid.  Otherwise, Bruce simply becomes just some rich bully beating up those with less power than him.

You don't have to be a socialist to realize that in the real world the worst criminals never get their own hands dirty, let alone rot in prisons. Street level crime is merely a symptom of a larger disease.

Anyway, I think a ""superhero"" comic book world is much more simplistic, even one with some gray moral areas like Batman. I love seeing Batman living in a rich man's neogothic/baroque mansion that makes the Spencer mansion from Resident Evil look like a guardhouse, it simply adds up to the iconography.

[johnnygobbs]

Anyway, I think a ""superhero"" comic book world is much more simplistic, even one with some gray moral areas like Batman. I love seeing Batman living in a rich man's neogothic/baroque mansion that makes the Spencer mansion from Resident Evil look like a guardhouse, it simply adds up to the iconography.

Sure, I agree with you to some extent but part of the fun aspect of that 'black and white' universe is casting the villains as these untouchable rich characters who make life a misery for everyone beneath them.  Max Shreck is a good example, as is Roman Sionis, Roland Daggett and Rupert Thorne in other Batman media.

[burtongenius]

I personally dont think the upper crust have a real direct influence on crime except for the whole capitalism thing.  Except for mob families (arnold wesker) I don't think there is a connection between crime and richness.  Though I do think that if there were more rich people like bruce the city would be a lot better off.

[johnnygobbs]

I personally dont think the upper crust have a real direct influence on crime except for the whole capitalism thing.  Except for mob families (arnold wesker) I don't think there is a connection between crime and richness.  Though I do think that if there were more rich people like bruce the city would be a lot better off.

Well, that's a pretty big 'thing'.  Also, bear in mind that most rich people aren't like Bruce.  If they were, like you say, things would be better for the people at the bottom.  The fact that many od Gotham's citizens are so deprived suggests to me that the people at the top of the tree aren't doing their bit.

Actually, one of the few things that annoyed me about Nolan's Bat-films (especially in contrast to Burton's Batman films and the animated series) is the suggestion that the wealthy citizens are shown to be pretty decent in contrast to the working class (with the exception of Gordon, who was a beat cop not so long before bhe became commissioner).  At least Burton's films had Shreck and various other rich characters who were shown to be just as flawed and possibly corrupt as the guys at the bottom end of society.

[burtongenius]

Your right.  Most rich people aren't normal, nice guys like bruce.  But does that make them necessarily evil?  I'm sure their stuck up.  I don't know.  Definetely Max Schreck and guy fighting morgan freeman though.  "Aren't you tired of seeing the sanctimonious robber baron rising up when he should be six feet under?"- catwoman

And as far as the whole "rich people have a duty to the poor", I don't know.  Classic argument but you can't really blame the rich because their rich.