Did you feel sorry/sympathy for The Penguin?

[johnnygobbs]

Bearing in mind some of the recent comments on other polls I thought it would be cool to do a 'definitive' poll as to whether we as a collective of Batman fans felt bad for The Penguin, or alternatively thought he was a thoroughly nasty piece of work who deserved his fate...Any thoughts?

[Catwoman]

should be a middle answer. honestly i didn't feel BAD for him but i'm not COMPLETELY unsympathetic either.

[batass4880]

Well put, same here.

[thecolorsblend]

I think he is a bit of a pitiful character, m'self.  He's a villain, no doubt, but you can somewhat understand his actions even if you can't condone them.

[johnnygobbs]

should be a middle answer. honestly i didn't feel BAD for him but i'm not COMPLETELY unsympathetic either.

A middle answer is too easy - everyone would go for that.  I'm forcing you to get off the fence before you get blisters.   

[The Dark Knight]

He's a villain, no doubt, but you can somewhat understand his actions even if you can't condone them.

I agree. He had a lifetime of hate brewing in him, with plenty of time to brood about it in isolation. Grubby isolation at that. That is sure to send any person to the brink of insanity.

The desire to be treated with respect and love was the root of his desire to 're-emerge'. Even though he was creating his list whilst running for Mayor, he was willing to put that aside for basic human interaction, attention and love. Things he did not have, or at the very least, not enough of.

When he was rejected again, that was it. There was no going back from there. He would claim his revenge against what he viewed as the mean society. Even though he deceived the public and his intentions were aligned with evil. In his eyes, if it was good enough for him to decend into the sewer, it was good enough for any other youngster.

In any case, after his speech, the game was up and he was living on borrowed time. Everyone knew where he lived and he would not be forgiven. Even if his plot did succeed, he was going to die. Drowning children in toxic sludge would have made sure of it.

[johnnygobbs]

The desire to be treated with respect and love was the root of his desire to 're-emerge'. Even though he was creating his list whilst running for Mayor, he was willing to put that aside for basic human interaction, attention and love. Things he did not have, or at the very least, not enough of.

That might be so, and take into account your point about how a life spent in the sewer would skew anyone's sense of reason and morality, but there are several clues to suggest that he may have grown into a wicked human being even if he had not been rejected by his parents, like the infant cat strangulation.  I suspect that had The Penguin not been rejected by his parents he would have still grown up to be a monster, just a 'respected' one like Shreck.

Also, no matter how horrific his childhood was, it's hard to sympathise with someone who was prepared to drown hundreds of children out of spite and bitterness, not to mention his wholly unnecessary murder of a beauty queen just so he could frame Batman and discredit the mayor for his own political ambitions.

[The Joker]

Nope.

There is no timetable between the events of his birth, and the point where the Cobblepot's decided to dump 'lil Oswald into the sewer. Was it a year? Two years? This isn't elaborated upon. If Oswald's introduction to sewer life (with Penguin's no less!) transpired shortly after his birth, then I could find him sympathetic to a certain degree. But otherwise, nope.

Clearly, the Cobblepot's were no saints. Obviously. However, we as a audience get no inclination that Oswald was either. We see him caged up sometime after his birth, and just when we are wondering why is he caged, we then get a quick follow up answer with Oswald slowly reaching for the family cat, only to violently murder the animal. Also note that the Cobblepot's demeanor being incredibly unphased. Implying that this type of behavior has become common place. Which clearly suggests that Oswald has evil tendencies. Even at such a young age.

Being that we know sewer dwelling Penguin's played a role in his upbringing, just as the Circus did at some point (most likely at a young age as well if Burton's art of "Jimmy" given to Devito is any indiction), it's clear that Oswald was most definately cared for, even if somewhat minimally, during the early part of his life and childhood. So yeah, I don't buy the isolation argument.

It's also quite evident that Oswald eventually became quite manipulative towards his peers at some point as well. Which definately played a part in the reason why he was most certainly in charge of the Red Triangle Circus Gang by the time of Returns. As they were certainly ready, and able to do anything he dictated to them. With only one unfortunate fat clown speaking up during the "let's drown the babies" murder plot. That right there is a pretty good indication of the power he had over those people if there ever was one.

In short, Burton's re-imaging of the Penguin is unique. But I personally find the DC Comics version of the Penguin to be much more sympathetic than I could ever possibly find Burton's version to be.


"Until next time, take care of yourselves and each other"

[Kingdjack4500]

yeah i felt bad for him