Fighting Style of the Burton Batman

[thecolorsblend]

The Burton Batman also displays a proficiency at the Filipino martial art of Escrima when dealing with blade-wielding opponents. I'm pretty sure the choreography during the fight against the swordsman is derived from Escrima.

This could be considered off topic. But rewatching that gif now, I've always been very impressed with the swordsman. His posture, balance and that lunge at the end there all look pitch perfect to me.

Since I don't think I ever talked about your escrima point, that sequence alone indicates that Keaton's Batman subjected himself to some pretty intensive escrima training... and then adapted it for unarmed defensive combat.

If I'm interpreting that right, then I think that fact alone elevates Keaton's Batman to a level of mastery that none of the other Batmen can quite lay claim to. Because off-hand, I can't think of any other Batman who adapted a martial art form in quite such an ingenious way as improv in the middle of a life-or-death fight.

[The Dark Knight]

What I liked in TF was the racing against the clock type of Batman. Breaking open the floor and escaping getting crushed by a millisecond is in line with the spirit of Adam West, and that's what I'd like to see more of.

[Silver Nemesis]

This YouTube creator has posted his own breakdown of the fighting styles used by the different cinematic Batmen. I don't know if he used our threads as a reference (I suspect he might have), but a lot of what he says concurs with our own analyses and research.

At the end he says he thinks Batfleck could beat the other Batmen in a fight. I would've agreed with that prior to seeing The Flash, but now I think Keaton would stand a very good chance of dominating Affleck. I've noted some new martial arts Keaton's Batman added to his repertoire in that movie, and now I'm just waiting for some decent quality clips to be uploaded to YouTube so I can post about it.

[The Dark Knight]

At the end he says he thinks Batfleck could beat the other Batmen in a fight. I would've agreed with that prior to seeing The Flash, but now I think Keaton would stand a very good chance of dominating Affleck. I've noted some new martial arts Keaton's Batman added to his repertoire in that movie, and now I'm just waiting for some decent quality clips to be uploaded to YouTube so I can post about it.

I've made my mind up about that. An older, out of practice Batman like Keaton shouldn't win against Batfleck. I'm at the point I don't believe what we're shown in The Flash. How he nimbly clambers over Nam-Ek, or takes down the guards after saying "this might hurt" doesn't ring true to me. Keaton didn't fight like that even in his prime. Perhaps he could've after Returns (adventures we didn't see), but not so long afterwards. Being older means experience, but is the body going to respond? That's the issue I can't shake from my mind.

[The Joker]

At the end he says he thinks Batfleck could beat the other Batmen in a fight. I would've agreed with that prior to seeing The Flash, but now I think Keaton would stand a very good chance of dominating Affleck. I've noted some new martial arts Keaton's Batman added to his repertoire in that movie, and now I'm just waiting for some decent quality clips to be uploaded to YouTube so I can post about it.

I agree, as it's perceptible what the overall purpose was with BatKeats being now being so incredibly fluid and imperious during his fight scenes.

Being that BatKeats was intended to be the main DCEU Batman Post-The Flash, there's a very commonplace incentive to "offer more than/raise the ante" with abilities regarding variations/reboots of often-rebooted characters.

Keaton's return as Batman is no exception to this, and would have (had the original plans come to fruition) assuredly, been conveyed as a highly skilled powerhouse incarnation of Batman that could more than hold his own against theoretical battles with other Batman's.

[thecolorsblend]

This YouTube creator has posted his own breakdown of the fighting styles used by the different cinematic Batmen. I don't know if he used our threads as a reference (I suspect he might have), but a lot of what he says concurs with our own analyses and research.

At the end he says he thinks Batfleck could beat the other Batmen in a fight. I would've agreed with that prior to seeing The Flash, but now I think Keaton would stand a very good chance of dominating Affleck. I've noted some new martial arts Keaton's Batman added to his repertoire in that movie, and now I'm just waiting for some decent quality clips to be uploaded to YouTube so I can post about it.

It seems dumb to ask. But I'll ask anyway. Keaton's fight scenes were done by a stuntman, correct?

Like TDK, I have trouble believing that Batman would be as nimble as he's shown to be in TF at his age. It didn't ruin Keaton's participation in the movie for me. But I don't buy it either.

Still, as presented in TF, yeah, I think Keaton's Batman could overcome Affleck's Batman. However implausible that is, the character shown in TF went toe to toe with a Kryptonian and more than held his own.

This is a pretty important comparison because Cavill's Superman fought Nam-Ek in MOS (to a virtual standstill, in fact) and then fought Affleck's Batman in BVS. Frankly, Superman gave as good as he got against Affleck's Batman until that second helping of Kryptonite vapor. Affleck was pretty well on the ropes until that moment... even tho Affleck had been planning that fight for weeks, if not months.

Meanwhile, Keaton's Batman is shown doing quite well against Nam-Ek despite having virtually zero prep time.

If you ask me, those are factors which should be considered if we're going to reevaluate Keaton's prospects against Affleck.

EDIT- I'll give you a little more.

No matter what Keaton's agility and endurance are shown to be in TF, he's still OLD. And that's when energy conservation becomes the name of the game.

If we're going to hypothetically pit 71 year old Keaton Batman (his age right now) against 43 year old Affleck Batman (his age when BVS came out), we should take physical conditioning into account.

[Silver Nemesis]

Being that BatKeats was intended to be the main DCEU Batman Post-The Flash, there's a very commonplace incentive to "offer more than/raise the ante" with abilities regarding variations/reboots of often-rebooted characters.

Presumably the post-Flashpoint DCEU Batman would've been the ultimate fighter, since he would've been a composite of Keaton and Affleck, combining all of their skills and combat feats into a single being. That would've been something.

It seems dumb to ask. But I'll ask anyway. Keaton's fight scenes were done by a stuntman, correct?

Keaton's fight double on The Flash was British martial artist Ashley Beck. According to his IMDb page, Beck is a 5th degree black belt in Freestyle Kickboxing and has also trained in Capoeira, Taekwondo, Aikido and Karate (Shotokan and Wadō-ryū styles).

As well as performing Keaton's fight scenes, Beck served as his stand-in throughout the movie. He also doubled for him on the Batgirl film, which means Beck was the one wearing the suit in those first costume pics that leaked online early last year.

The fighting style Batman uses against the Russians is actually pretty close to the one shown in the Burton films, relying heavily on kickboxing (Shotokan and Taekwondo) mixed with some Aikido. The choreography is more fluid, as reflects modern trends, and there's some wirework at play, but it's still largely consistent with how he fought in the earlier films. The techniques he uses against the two Barrys and Nam-Ek are different, but I expect that's because in those scenes we're seeing him fight in a different context (out of costume, against a superhuman foe). Allowing for differences in how modern action scenes are shot and edited, I thought his martial arts skills in the silo fight were reasonably consistent with the old films.

Even so, his fighting style has definitely evolved. Batman now employs spinning back kicks, which he never used in B89 or BR. Spinning back kicks are fairly easy to execute. If you can perform a side kick while maintaining your balance, then you can probably perform a spinning back kick. The tricky part is that you have to turn your head to look at your target before throwing the kick itself, and this would've been impossible to do in the old batsuits. Had Lea or Keaton been able to turn their heads in the old costumes, then I'm sure they would've used spinning back kicks as well. So that move doesn't feel out of place in The Flash.

In Batman Returns Keaton made frequent use of headbutts and backhand strikes, neither of which I recall him using in The Flash. So that's another difference. Obviously he's also a lot more agile in The Flash than he was in the older films. Some might say too agile. Other than that though, his fighting style is mostly consistent. I spotted techniques from at least three new martial arts in The Flash that he didn't use in the earlier films. But again, I'd rather wait until decent quality clips appear online before going into more detail about that.

Here's a quote from Michael Keaton regarding his very first costumed fight scene in Batman '89, where he battles the two muggers on the rooftop. Carl Newman performed the wirework and shots of Batman spreading his cape in that scene, and Sean McCabe would've taken the fall after Batman gets shot by the muggers, but it was Keaton himself who performed the bit where Batman kicks Eddie through the door.

Here's what Keaton had to say about it.

"I could barely move in that suit. To this day, one hip has not been right because I practiced when I first kicked that guy on the roof, and it was very difficult to get my foot up that high. It was like fifty thousand rubber bands holding you down."

https://www.slashfilm.com/1322342/michael-keaton-updated-batsuit-the-flash-practicality/

Supposedly he did multiple takes of that shot and ended up pulling a muscle in his hip. That injury might have been a factor in why Dave Lea was brought in midway through the shoot.

If we're going to hypothetically pit 71 year old Keaton Batman (his age right now) against 43 year old Affleck Batman (his age when BVS came out), we should take physical conditioning into account.

When I compare them, I like to imagine both Batmen being young and in their prime.

It's hard to say when Keaton's Batman was at his physical peak. He's obviously past it in The Flash, though still highly capable. And I don't think he'd reached his prime yet in Batman '89, since he was still in his Year One phase back then and something of a rookie.

That leaves Batman Returns as our best look at Bat-Keaton in his prime. Either that or the flashback fight scene from Batgirl, which we might never get to see. I like to think that Keaton was approaching his prime in Batman Returns, and that he would've peaked sometime afterwards. Perhaps when he fought the Riddler and Mister Freeze.

[Kamdan]

Here's a quote from Michael Keaton regarding his very first costumed fight scene in Batman '89, where he battles the two muggers on the rooftop. Carl Newman performed the wirework and shots of Batman spreading his cape in that scene, and Sean McCabe would've taken the fall after Batman gets shot by the muggers, but it was Keaton himself who performed the bit where Batman kicks Eddie through the door.

Here's what Keaton had to say about it.

"I could barely move in that suit. To this day, one hip has not been right because I practiced when I first kicked that guy on the roof, and it was very difficult to get my foot up that high. It was like fifty thousand rubber bands holding you down."

https://www.slashfilm.com/1322342/michael-keaton-updated-batsuit-the-flash-practicality/

Supposedly he did multiple takes of that shot and ended up pulling a muscle in his hip. That injury might have been a factor in why Dave Lea was brought in midway through the shoot.

That shot of Batman kicking always concerned me as it looked like he fell over conducting that kick. Could always tell that was Keaton by the facial expression alone and I will freely admit that I fell over myself trying to do this kick and I didn't have a Batsuit on. Another reminder of how taxing these films are on the actors.

[The Dark Knight]

Like TDK, I have trouble believing that Batman would be as nimble as he's shown to be in TF at his age. It didn't ruin Keaton's participation in the movie for me. But I don't buy it either.

We're also meant to believe the explosives Batman uses on Nam-Ek are stronger than anything MOS Superman can muster. On one hand I like that Keaton's in the movie because the actual acting he does (not the CGI stuff) is good, as is his general character arc. But now that it's over and done I'm wondering if it was worth it? The Flash was a flop. For better or worse his time in the role came to a close in 1992.

Bale was apparently harassed to appear in The Flash but he said no. I have to say good on him. People can say what they want about Dial of Destiny, but in contrast that accurately leans in to Indy's age and the last we see him he's alive (even if that part was a reshoot, it's for the best and goes against the current trend). But Harrison coming back in the first place is also up for debate - there's something to be said for remaining a treasured memory. People like him and Keaton have nothing to prove or gain from doing more other than the financial side.

[Silver Nemesis]

Here's my take on Keaton's updated fighting style in The Flash. Feel free to correct me if you think I'm mistaken, or to add your own observations.

Keaton's Bruce is highly skilled at using throwing weapons. We saw him throw a couple of batarangs in the earlier films, but his skills have now evolved to Bullseye-levels of improvisation.

Perhaps the most impressive example of this is during the silo fight where he ricochets a batarang off the wall to hit a target behind him.

In the earlier movies we saw Keaton throw weapons in a boomerang fashion so that they curved through the air to hit or trip their targets, but in The Flash we see him throwing weapons directly like shurikens. So I'd say Shurikenjutsu should be added to his list of martial arts.

When Bruce fights the two Barrys at stately Wayne Manor, he adopts a crouched stance atop the kitchen table, keeping his centre of gravity low and swinging his entire body with each attack. This might be a stretch, but I think the technique Bruce is employing here is derived from the Afro-Brazilian martial art Capoeira. Mostly with regards to the crouched rotational way he moves his body.

Keaton's stunt double Ashley Beck has trained in Capoeira and Barry actually mentions this martial art in the dialogue at one point. Also note that Bruce is barefoot during this fight scene, as Capoeira is traditionally practiced barefoot.

Alternatively, he could be using the Drunken Fist form of Shaolin Kung Fu in this scene. He certainly moves like a drunk, and even swigs from a bottle at one point, yet the fact he appears perfectly sober immediately afterwards suggests his movements are intentional. So it could be Drunken Fist. But if I had to pick one martial art as the basis for this scene, I'd go with Capoeira.

I don't know what you'd call this move.

Earlier in the thread I highlighted the flying body press Batman tries to execute during the cathedral fight in B89 as an example of wrestling. I suppose you could describe this as a wrestling technique too, though it's clearly very OTT. He lifts an enemy up with one hand and slams him down into the ground again, somewhat like a choke slam.

Bruce also performs a suplex in the Batman '89 comic, further suggesting he has some wrestling skills. I don't consider that comic part of the canon, but since we're discussing the Burton Batman's wrestling abilities I thought it was relevant to mention.

Keaton still uses kickboxing, but now he's expanded his skills to include Muay Thai, also known as Thai boxing. A good example of this is the following sequence, where he floors one opponent with a low kick sweep...

...before taking down another with a combo that includes a spinning back elbow.

These are both Muay Thai techniques.

Dave Lea also trained in Muay Thai, and some of the shin blocks Batman used in the earlier films could've been derived from that discipline.

Batman throws a soldier using a two-handed grip. This resembles the double lapel grab, which I was taught in both Judo and Ju-Jitsu classes. Many other martial arts use it, but Batman's use of the grab here is probably an example of Aikido.

We already noted Batman using some Aikido techniques in Batman Returns, and Ashley Beck has definitely trained in that martial art (as had Dave Lea), so I'm going to list this throw as an example of Aikido.

To sum up, the Keaton Batman's fighting style across his three movies seems to incorporate techniques from the following:

•    Ninjutsu
•    Hapkune Do
•    Shotokan Karate
•    Taekwondo
•    Muay Thai
•    Escrima
•    Capoeira
•    Aikido
•    Boxing
•    Street fighting
•    Wrestling
•    Shurikenjutsu

If I'm right, then he's proficient in at least a dozen different styles of fighting. That's the same number of fighting styles we counted for the Nolan Batman.