Box Office Thread

[thecolorsblend]

I had a look at what Jett from BOF is saying, and I agree with him. The shared universe on film should be forgotten about and the Gunn reboot is risky beyond belief. What is going to change? All this hype talk about products that nearly always end up being embarassing box office bombs. Then we have the actors who become associated with that - who would want to be?

To piggyback on this, I think we should all start considering the likelihood that DC on film is an irreparably damaged brand.

The Flash notwithstanding, everything under Batman's umbrella seems healthy enough. But everything else is risky at best and already radioactive at worst.

I sincerely have no idea what it would take to rescue the DC brand at this point. And if I'm a talent manager in Hollywood, I've got a LOT of reservations about recommending my clients for any DC-related work. The risks just seem too severe to me.

Black Adam's failure alone should be enough to put the fear of God into that entire town when it comes to non-Batman DC characters.

EDIT- WBD has left a LOT of bodies in their wake. Zack Snyder, Henry Cavill, Ben Affleck, Michael Keaton (for now anyway), Sasha Calle, Gal Gadot, Patti Jenkins, David Ayers, Chris Nolan, the list just goes on.

If you're a talent agent, does recommending your client work for WBD in general and for a DC property in particular really seem like a good idea to you?

[The Dark Knight]

I agree. The current economic climate is not an excuse either because other movies are making big money. We just have to look at Super Mario, Top Gun Maverick, John Wick 4, Spider-Verse and I think Dead Reckoning will join them next month. Moviegoers have DC on film figured out and they're not interested in either the characters or the way they're handled. Calling something a reboot doesn't change perceptions or fortunes like magic. But that seems to be the logic of Gunn and sections of the Twitter crowd.

The black label films are where DC thrives and they're the movies we most want to see. They have a sense of danger and emotional pull that the main DCEU lacks, but they're considered secondary. As much as I like BvS and ZSJL, you have to admit it would've been more ballsy rock and roll if WB resisted the shared universe concept and simply kept doing solo films as they're doing now with Reeves.

[thecolorsblend]

Knowing what we know now, it's hard to argue, frankly.

Years ago, I started a larpy thread about how to move on from the DCEU by doing bunches of disconnected solo films. I'm convinced those ideas were viable back in 2018.

But if something along those lines had been WB's play starting in 2013 (rather than making MOS), I can't guarantee it would've succeeded. But I also can't imagine how things would've turned out worse than what we have now.

Either way, it's done. So, bring on Oppenheimer and Mission Impossible.

[Silver Nemesis]

A significant factor that's contributed to the depreciation of the DC brand, and one which I think the studio has underestimated, is the poor quality of their television output. For every DC movie they've released in the past decade, there have been two or three bad TV shows, either on the CW or HBO Max. Most of these shows were terrible, but WB kept churning them out. Fans seldom got hyped about seeing a character leap from the comics onto the big screen, because many of those characters had already made multiple leaps onto the small screen with underwhelming results.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think if WB had taken more care with the TV side of things, insisting on quality over quantity, making fewer shows and restricting access to certain characters (especially those from the Batman franchise), then the novelty of seeing those characters and stories translated into live action films might have been stronger. Marvel's made the exact same mistake in recent years by flooding Disney+ with subpar MCU shows, and the diminishing financial returns on their theatrical projects is a reflection of that error.

We also have to take into account the declining quality of the comics themselves. The Woke Age of comics will not be as fondly remembered as the earlier ages. Not if the precipitous sales drops are anything to go by. If no one's reading the comics anymore, why would they be hyped about seeing those comics adapted in live action?

[The Dark Knight]

So, bring on Oppenheimer and Mission Impossible.

When you look at his filmography, Nolan hasn't made a dud and his general template (The Batman/Joker) is succeeding at the box office. I have to give him his dues in that regard. Tenet was one of the first movies I saw after the shutdowns and I'll be there for Oppenheimer.

Dead Reckoning is on track to have a franchise opening record at $90 million: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/tom-cruise-mission-impossible-dead-reckoning-box-office-tracking-1235521598/

Cruise and Nolan have standards and wouldn't accept massive failure like we're seeing now. They both have reputations that resonate with the audience and with that comes expectations. DC have the wrong reputation and expectations. And I agree with Silver's comment about the TV output. It all adds up.

[thecolorsblend]

A significant factor that's contributed to the depreciation of the DC brand, and one which I think the studio has underestimated, is the poor quality of their television output. For every DC movie they've released in the past decade, there have been two or three bad TV shows, either on the CW or HBO Max. Most of these shows were terrible, but WB kept churning them out. Fans seldom got hyped about seeing a character leap from the comics onto the big screen, because many of those characters had already made multiple leaps onto the small screen with underwhelming results.

This is probably true. I enjoy the first two seasons of Arrow. The first season of The Flash (TV show) is solid too.

But the great majority of Arrowverse shows are just plain BAD. And DC's Legends Of Tomorrow is a good example. It probably leads the pack (of awful shows), frankly.

And the non-Arrowverse shows aren't exactly Taster's Blend either.

[Silver Nemesis]

Courtesy of Deadline:

Two animated movies, Disney/Pixar's Elemental and Sony Animation's monolith Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse, have punked The Flash and are in a fierce fight for No. 1 at the weekend box office with about $18 million apiece after Fridays that are estimated around $5.4M each.

[...]

Meanwhile, Warner Bros/DC's The Flash is looking at a second Friday of $4.3M and second weekend of $14M, right now down a massive 75%. Should that hold, it will be worse than the 66% second-weekend drop weathered by Warner Bros/DC's Green Lantern back in 2011. The running total for Flash by Sunday will be around $86.3M at 4,256 theaters.

https://deadline.com/2023/06/box-office-the-flash-no-hard-feelings-jennifer-lawrence-1235422274/

Ouch.

[GBglide]

Is Paul busy or am I being ignored?

Paul, would you consider posting this as a poll on Batman-Online Facebook page?


Would you re-watch "The Flash" on a prescribed day to tell WB how much we want a Michael Keaton "Batman Beyond" movie? If the sales shot up on one day, it would send a message.

Yes

No

[thecolorsblend]

Courtesy of Deadline:

The Flash is looking at a second Friday of $4.3M and second weekend of $14M, right now down a massive 75%.

https://deadline.com/2023/06/box-office-the-flash-no-hard-feelings-jennifer-lawrence-1235422274/

Ouch.

Different sources seem to have different numbers. The range I'm seeing is 69% to 75%.

Either way, this is painful.

The post-mortem on this should be a thing of beauty. I don't think there are enough disgruntled Snyderstans boycotting the movie to do this kind of damage. Which is what some people are claiming. But I think every single Snyder true believer could've bought a ticket for TF and it wouldn't have made a big difference to the bottom line.

It looks like TF is the victim of a unique set of factors. Namely, disgust with Miller and his various offenses combined with (let's face it) a growing disenchantment with superhero fare. That double whammy seems to be what's doing the damage to TF.

If I'm James Gunn, I'm concerned about the viability of my superhero universe.

It's starting to look like WBD's best play right now would be washing their hands of DC and superheroes entirely and developing other franchises and tentpoles to carry them into the future. Because I can't kill enough brain cells to convince myself that Aquaman 2 and Blue Beetle will somehow do much better than Black Adam or TF.

[The Dark Knight]

I think the Snyder element being offside is a factor (the fan base far from being united has to mean something), but it's not the defining one. I think number one in the case of The Flash is Ezra Miller. He is radioactive. The general public must have got word of the headlines and wanted nothing to do with his movie. But the frustrations of Cavill and his timeline being ripped apart are going to linger, I think. Mix it in with big, dumb CGI superhero fatigue and you have this outcome. Even we aren't interested in the solo films like Blue Beetle and the like - how can we expect anyone else to be?