Batman Forever: Virtual Workprint

[thecolorsblend]

Kevin Smith may have fallen off in recent years, but this is a great move. At face value, it'll simply be informative to know all the nitty gritty details. Another effect is that having Kevin Smith signal boost this movement is going to do wonders for getting the word out.

Pretty much. Personally, I preferred Kevin Smith The Filmmaker to Kevin Smith The Teary-Eyed Influencer.

But if getting the extended/workprint cut out there requires him to performatively cry, well, we take the bad with the good, I suppose.

Considering the reevaluation Schumacher's films have undergone in the past several years, I think it's reasonable to guess that a longer edition of BF would boost the film's profile.

One question I've always had is why the cuts were ever made in the first place. The deleted scenes are mostly good. Mostly. So, it makes you wonder if this was a running time issue or what.

[eledoremassis02]

I was looking at what he was saying with regards to the opening
"You know how the movie starts with Two-Face busting into the bank and sh*t like that. That don't happen for like 15 minutes in the original cut"

The virtual workprint has two-face show up at the 9min mark. I know there is a longer intro to Bruce Wayne being greeted and bombarded with papers, and there is a possibility of longer edits (like Edawards "in the flesh" line) but 15 minutes seems to be a lot.

Tho Kevin Smith could be stretching it

Sounds like he might show it (or clips) at the Scum and Villany Cantina (I am assuming in LA) when he does the show
https://twitter.com/CutSchumacher/status/1667282305784717313?s=20

I do also wonder what the temp score is?

[Gotham Knight]

I was looking at what he was saying with regards to the opening
"You know how the movie starts with Two-Face busting into the bank and sh*t like that. That don't happen for like 15 minutes in the original cut"

The virtual workprint has two-face show up at the 9min mark. I know there is a longer intro to Bruce Wayne being greeted and bombarded with papers, and there is a possibility of longer edits (like Edawards "in the flesh" line) but 15 minutes seems to be a lot.

Tho Kevin Smith could be stretching it

Maybe, though possibly not much. If this is indeed the fabled 160-170 minute version it is quite possible that it takes that long. We have to remember that this is likely the assembly cut before any real serious editing had been done. I liken it to the 3 hour version of Superman: The Movie where aside from a few deleted scenes the vast majority of new material is numerous but small additions that are usually cut for good reason because they dilute the overall product and are trimmed to tighten everything to a more harmonious narrative. You also have numerous instances where shots just awkwardly linger and end up being basically static that get tossed once they really go after the edit. If this is that edit I'm sure every, and I do mean every scene, will have multiple additions, many of which may actually dilute the film as it did with Superman.

If there is an official release, I'd like someone to go through Dennis Virkler's notes if they exist and find out what the movie looked like before the first act was reordered.

[eledoremassis02]

Kevin Smith is now live! Waiting to hear about the workprint!

Some takeaways

- Under 3 hours but 2 hours 35 min 
- Two-Face mostly redubbed in final cut and is more subdued in this edit
- Two-Face origin (montage?) showing the courtroom scene in the begining of the film
- No Robin laundry scene
- No ADR on security guard
- John Favreau has lines as Waynes stock broker
- Outside the Batman Forever theme the temp score is Batman, Batman Returns and Interview with a Vampire
- Missing edawards "why can't I kill you scene"
- Enhances the film, and feels more in line with falling down and lost boys
- Kevin Smith is getting a better quality version and showing it atleast twice "for free" (July 1st & August 25th) at his pivate screeings for his films but wont release it online (for legal reasons)

[Kamdan]

So, all we gotta do is find this Joe Black guy now. There are fans who will do exactly what he got tired of doing for a month and could knock it out in a week. Would make a better presentation for Smith's upcoming theatrical screenings of it.

Managed to track down his YouTube account where he uploaded his portion of the podcast on his own page.

[The Dark Knight]

The edit I saw years back with the deleted scenes reinstated was superb. One of the best Batman things I'd seen, to be honest. Unless Smith revealed this on his show (I haven't watched it yet) I'd like to know he got a hold of the cut and what WB thinks of what's he's saying and doing about it.

[eledoremassis02]

The edit I saw years back with the deleted scenes reinstated was superb. One of the best Batman things I'd seen, to be honest. Unless Smith revealed this on his show (I haven't watched it yet) I'd like to know he got a hold of the cut and what WB thinks of what's he's saying and doing about it.

So, he got it from the Joe Black guy as part of a payment for some Kevin Smith film memrobilia. Joe Black got it from "connections" in Hollywood. Keven Smith said he got his Flash ticket from WB after the news of him getting the cut went viral. So he's unsure what WB thinks, but it's being verbaly careful when showing it, so he's showing it "for free, if you stick around" after his screening of his stuff

[The Laughing Fish]

I remember Akiva Goldsman saying he saw a cut of the film a couple of years ago, but we didn't hear any updates until now. I suspect they've been working on polishing the Schumacher cut for a while, particularly if Two-Face's scenes are more serious in this and the over-the-top lines such as Riddler saying "why can I just kill you?" are missing.

I really convinced the official Schumacher cut is going to come out in the near future. And when it does, it will be the first time DC movie I'll become interested in since ZSJL. And let's face it, with the financial troubles and box office bombs WB have been getting lately, the very least they can do is release this cut.

[eledoremassis02]

My brother found this on reddit from one of Kevin Smiths screenings

The deleted scenes are reported to say Workprint 11/94

I also attended! I'm going to be honest, maybe my memory is fuzzy due to how late at night... er, early in the morning it took place, but I don't remember Two-Face being all that different? I didn't think his delivery sounded all that different from his theatrical performance. I did notice that the dialogue, in general, sounded a bit different - some deliveries were less over-the-top, but they seemed like subtle changes.

I have a big list of notes that I took after I left the theater, for those interested - would love to see more from others who attended, and corrections due to my sh*tty memory. Warning, not very organized because I was rushing to write stuff down before I forgot:

•   ⁠Completely different score, perhaps a temp score, utilizing elements of Elfman's work from Batman and Batman Returns. Notable examples include the old Batman theme during the first suit-up sequence, some of the Red Triangle Gang's theme during certain action sequences, and my favorite, a few notes of Catwoman's theme playing after Chase references Catwoman, which concretizes the allusion (it's a real shame it isn't kept in the final release)
•   ⁠Starts with the famous sequence at Arkham Asylum, in which Dr. Burton enters Two-Face's cell, finds a dead man hanging from the ceiling, and the graffiti "The Bat Must Die" on the wall
•   ⁠The opening is largely re-arranged. In this version, we go from the intro sequence at Arkham immediately to a slice of Bruce Wayne's life up in the tower, where he's swarmed with requests for various things by various secretaries. It's a lightly comedic scene. More interestingly, this directly segues into the scene where Edward Nygma presents his invention to Bruce and gets shot down for ethical questions, which serves as a pre-title sequence a la Batman Returns (the final film opens with the titles, just like Batman 1989). Because of this, the Bat-Signal summon that ends the scene isn't Chase trying to score a booty call, but rather, just a call for Batman to go to the bank that Two-Face is robbing. Thus, this version actually explains why Batman is there in the first place. (The "Bat-Signal as a beeper" sequence still happens, just later.)
•   ⁠The next major deleted sequence is after the first confrontation with Two-Face (saving the man from the acid trap), after Batman brings down the helicopter and falls into the water himself. A sort of quasi dream sequence follows in which Bruce hallucinates about his parents' deaths, with the voice echoing and overlapping. It's surreal and helps to establish the memories of his past that torment him. In general, the subplot about his memories works better in this version because we actually see the memories surfacing throughout the film.
•   ⁠Minor differences in certain scenes. Lots of dialogue appear to be different, less refined takes (pre-ADR?) These are generally inferior to the final version, usually offering less emotion and clarity. But, in some cases, they lack the over-the-top goofiness of the final version.
•   ⁠Some scenes are slightly extended. Notable examples:
   ⁠•   ⁠Two-Face gets additional dialogue at the bank before he meets Batman, including the "If the Bat wants to play, we'll play" line that was heard in some trailers.
   ⁠•   ⁠Two-Face also gets more screen time with Batman after the bank situation when they're both fighting on the helicopter, in which he refers to Batman as a killer.
   ⁠•   ⁠After Nygma kills his boss Stickley, the scene of him reveling in the murder and then menacing the security camera is a bit longer and showcases his sinister side a bit more as he rants about how much he hates Bruce and wants to make him pay. He takes a photo/article (something that depicts Bruce Wayne at any rate) and smashes it on the ground. Not too tonally different but makes the scene a bit creepier.
   ⁠•   ⁠After Robin is convinced to stay, the scene continues for just a bit longer, showing him follow Alfred back into the mansion and hold the door open for him
   ⁠•   ⁠Robin hitting Bruce in anguish continues for a little bit, and features Bruce stoically standing there and continuing to take Robin's blows while calmly telling him that he will do whatever he can to help. It seamlessly cuts to Robin's dialogue in the next scene, where he tells Bruce that in order to help, he should help him kill Two-Face.
   ⁠•   ⁠When Two-Face teaches Riddler to punch out guards and Riddler fails, Two-Face chides him for punching weakly and knocks out the guard himself.
   ⁠•   ⁠Bruce's second(?) meeting with Chase, in which she gives him the dream doll, starts earlier. It begins with an exterior shot of her office, while you hear Bruce having a conversation with her, and zooms in to reveal them. Notable dialogue includes a line in which Bruce says "thanks for the help with Dick." Quite a heartwarming little addition, and shows the extent to which Bruce cares for Robin and help him navigate his own trauma of seeing his family die.
   ⁠•   ⁠When Nygma taunts Bruce for being too cowardly to try the brainwave machine, he has an additional line emasculating Bruce in front of Chase.
   ⁠•   ⁠After Riddler forces Batman to choose between Chase and Robin and does the mock countdown, there's additional footage of Batman testing a step forward and finding that the floor in front of him is actually an optical illusion, with his foot going straight through the "ground" to reveal a pit. He gets additional dialogue, in which he deduces that "death surrounds him, everywhere" and that this isn't a choice he's meant to win at all.
   ⁠•   ⁠Riddler's final scene, in which he's gone insane and is visited by Chase, is extended a bit - just showing more of his insanity as he believes that he's Batman
•   ⁠The scene in which he has a manor date with Chase plays out differently, with different dialogue. In the Final Cut, this scene does most of the heavy lifting with Bruce's flashbacks, as he basically narrates to Chase how he became Batman. This flashback occurs after Chase knocks down a vase of flowers, triggering Bruce - the same thing happens in the work print but it's instead framed as just another flare-up. Some of the flashback footage used in this scene was originally shown in the much earlier flashback when Batman fell in the water after blowing up Two-Face's helicopter (namely, the footage of young Bruce falling down, though he isn't shown actually falling into the cave as in the final). Interestingly, in the work print, Chase doesn't seem to catch on that Bruce is Batman because both of them react to Bruce's flashback differently - he doesn't narrate his past, instead just telling her that "it's happening again" and the memories are coming back, and she just gives him generic clinical advice. Her finding out that he's Batman by comparing the kiss is not present at all.
•   ⁠Another major addition comes before the final battle, and is another well-known cut, in which Bruce enters the cave containing the old diary and confronts the giant bat. This occurs right after he gets knocked out and then wakes up. Due to the injury, he loses his memory temporarily, not remembering who Batman is while Alfred reminds him that he was knocked on the head. They head down to the Batcave where Alfred points out a cave entrance in the wall and Bruce asks what's inside. Alfred tells him that his fears are inside, and he encourages him to go in and confront his past. The entrance leads to a large, natural-looking cave (not built out like the Batcave itself) which has a swarm of bats on the ceiling that Bruce briefly acknowledges, before turning his attention to the ground covered in rocks/sand. He brushes aside some sand and uncovers the old diary that he has dreamed so much about. He opens it up, flips open to the final entry, and learns that his parents had actively chosen to watch a different movie than he wanted ("Bruce's cartoon will have to wait"). An emotional scene follows in which Bruce tears up, realizing that their death wasn't his fault, and he repeats "Not my fault... not my fault..." This both reminds him of his Batman identity and gives him the resolve to resume being Batman, whereupon the giant bat finally appears (though it seemed pretty clear to me that it was meant to be imagery/symbolism rather than the actual massive bat physically being in the cave with him). It flies towards him, gets a couple of close-ups revealing its grotesque, terrifying, snarling face (it's honestly pretty scary-looking with red glowing eyes looking straight at the camera). But Bruce stands and looks at it fearlessly, then the camera pans around them both as Bruce raises his arms to match the bat's. The scene ends with Bruce coming out of the cave, telling Alfred that he's Batman again, and ends with a cool visual of a flock of bats swarming out towards the camera.
•   ⁠The final addition, which is honestly pretty significant, is at the very end of the film (right before the shared ending of Batman/Robin running in front of the signal) - after Batman says goodbye to Chase, a scene shows Alfred talking to Chase in the car (shot in the style of similar scenes in the Burton films), in which she asks him if Batman's work is going to go on forever, which Alfred affirms. Chase's reaction to this isn't very clear, but she seems to smile and be okay with it.
•   ⁠Some scenes are missing. A notable example includes the final "epilogue" of the final fight in which Batman finds the drained Riddler who, frustrated, asks him how he can possibly be both Batman and Bruce. This scene is not present at all in the work print. The weird scene where Robin does "kung-fu laundry" is also not present.
   ⁠•   ⁠Two-Face's final scene, of the coin landing in his palm as it slides with his corpse under the water, is not present - in the work print, the last we see of him is just him falling down the shaft
•   ⁠More minor line omissions exist too, like the guard at the beginning not yelling "it's boiling acid!" In an over-the-top campy tone.

[Kamdan]

Such a shame that this edit will likely never be seen on a wider scale other than at Smith's theater. It's obviously not a complete edit that restores every known deleted scene and was completed before reshoots and additional ADR occurred. It, along with various other leaked workprints, provide an interesting insight into the filmmaking process. This sort of thing doesn't appeal to the average consumer and would only appeal to film buffs, especially in terms of this utilizing a temp score.

I really don't understand why Smith gets to show this edit for free without apparent consequence. It would be the same difference if it was shared online. Podcasters at the theater sounded pretty adamant that no recordings were to be made during the screening which is rather trivial since this is illegally obtained footage to begin with. When the workprint of Blade Runner got accidentally leaked in the late 80's, people made recordings of it before it appeared decades later on the Blu-ray. Smith's only doing this to drum up attendees at his theater that is obviously struggling by resorting to gimmicks like this.

Hope something can be done right away. I'm much more interested in seeing this workprint as it is instead of going back and making it as slick and polished as Snyder's cut of Justice League was.