*SPOILER THREAD* - The Flash

[The Joker]

Another reason for having Cavill in the finale is that it would have offered an emotional conclusion to Supergirl's storyline. The alternate universe is imperilled owing to Superman's absence. Keaton's Justice League try picking up the slack, but ultimately fail. The world needs Superman, and having him return at the end and meet his cousin – a cousin who was heartbroken by her failure to protect and avenge him in the Flashpoint universe – would have ended Supergirl's storyline on a touching familial note.

But Gunn and his colleagues decided the Clooney ending was better, so that's what we got.

Agreed. It would have truly been a more, much more satisfying conclusion to Calle's Supergirl arc, and having Keaton's Batman alongside Cavill's Superman, and Gadot's Wonder Woman in the same scene, even if they didn't interact all that much, would have been a visual treat nevertheless.

A more pleasant and gratifying conclusion. Rather than going for the lulz. Typical.

[eledoremassis02]

Muschietti on not emulating Burton. Think it's rather a confirmation that this is 89 Batman

The Flash Director Didn't Emulate Tim Burton's Visual Style Because It Required Too Many Hats
Warner Bros.
BY JEREMY MATHAI/JUNE 16, 2023 4:15 PM EST
This article contains spoilers for "The Flash."

Now that it's becoming commonplace for modern superhero movies to dip into the past and pull entire characters out of pre-established franchise continuities, more and more filmmakers have to grapple with a bit of a thorny question. When bringing Tobey Maguire's Peter Parker and Willem Dafoe's Norman Osborn out of "Spider-Man" (2002) and into the Marvel Cinematic Universe, should their scenes together in "Spider-Man: No Way Home" have adopted the same stylistic qualities that director Sam Raimi is so well known for? Or take "The Flash," which decided to revisit one of the most visually distinct superhero movies ever made — Tim Burton's "Batman" (1989) — and bring back Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne out of retirement. Andy Muschietti certainly leaves his stamp on every movie he makes (likely including the upcoming "Batman: Brave and the Bold," as was just revealed) , but "The Flash" doesn't exactly borrow any of the Gothic expressionism that Burton so clearly loved.



It should come as no surprise that there's a very good reason why Muschietti didn't want to emulate the Burton movies too much. The plot of "The Flash" involves Ezra Miller's Barry Allen being forcibly shoved out of the Speed Force when traveling back to the past and thrown into a whole other timeline. We're meant to assume that his plan to alter history actually worked without a hitch, saving the life of his mother and preventing his father from imprisonment. But after he runs into his younger self, he realizes that he's erased multiple members of the "Justice League" from existence and discovers that he has no idea who this world's Bruce Wayne is — even though we do.

So why avoid the Burton of it all? It had to do with ... hats. Obviously!


Best of both worlds
Warner Bros.
If you can't beat 'em, best to not even try to join 'em. While some fans may find it jarring to see Michael Keaton's Batman running around in such a modern setting with a wildly different sense of atmosphere in "The Flash," there was a method to the madness. While making a recent appearance on IndieWire's Filmmaker Toolkit podcast, director Andy Muschietti revealed why he felt so strongly about separating himself from Tim Burton's famous aesthetics. In essence, hewing too close to Burton's style would've given away the entire game. According to Muschietti:


"How do we integrate a movie that is, tonally, so different? One thing I knew for sure was that I wouldn't try to emulate the cinematography of [Burton's movies] because it would be completely tonally different, but also, it would alert audiences that the world in which Barry lands is a Tim Burton movie. If you go 100% in that direction, you would have to have people with hats and stuff, and this blue-blasted backlights that are so particular in his movies. The level of fantasy in the design would be prohibitive in my movie, so I tried to blend the two worlds, and I think we managed to reach a balance where it's still believable that the Michael Keaton Batman exists in this timeline."

Read More: https://www.slashfilm.com/1316378/the-flash-director-didnt-want-to-go-too-far-into-tim-burton-territory/

[The Joker]

 A youtuber who's channel is devoted to the history of Batman, Salazar Knight, gives his positive review of "The Flash".

[BatmanFurst]

Muschietti on not emulating Burton. Think it's rather a confirmation that this is 89 Batman

The Flash Director Didn't Emulate Tim Burton's Visual Style Because It Required Too Many Hats
Warner Bros.
BY JEREMY MATHAI/JUNE 16, 2023 4:15 PM EST
This article contains spoilers for "The Flash."

Now that it's becoming commonplace for modern superhero movies to dip into the past and pull entire characters out of pre-established franchise continuities, more and more filmmakers have to grapple with a bit of a thorny question. When bringing Tobey Maguire's Peter Parker and Willem Dafoe's Norman Osborn out of "Spider-Man" (2002) and into the Marvel Cinematic Universe, should their scenes together in "Spider-Man: No Way Home" have adopted the same stylistic qualities that director Sam Raimi is so well known for? Or take "The Flash," which decided to revisit one of the most visually distinct superhero movies ever made — Tim Burton's "Batman" (1989) — and bring back Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne out of retirement. Andy Muschietti certainly leaves his stamp on every movie he makes (likely including the upcoming "Batman: Brave and the Bold," as was just revealed) , but "The Flash" doesn't exactly borrow any of the Gothic expressionism that Burton so clearly loved.



It should come as no surprise that there's a very good reason why Muschietti didn't want to emulate the Burton movies too much. The plot of "The Flash" involves Ezra Miller's Barry Allen being forcibly shoved out of the Speed Force when traveling back to the past and thrown into a whole other timeline. We're meant to assume that his plan to alter history actually worked without a hitch, saving the life of his mother and preventing his father from imprisonment. But after he runs into his younger self, he realizes that he's erased multiple members of the "Justice League" from existence and discovers that he has no idea who this world's Bruce Wayne is — even though we do.

So why avoid the Burton of it all? It had to do with ... hats. Obviously!


Best of both worlds
Warner Bros.
If you can't beat 'em, best to not even try to join 'em. While some fans may find it jarring to see Michael Keaton's Batman running around in such a modern setting with a wildly different sense of atmosphere in "The Flash," there was a method to the madness. While making a recent appearance on IndieWire's Filmmaker Toolkit podcast, director Andy Muschietti revealed why he felt so strongly about separating himself from Tim Burton's famous aesthetics. In essence, hewing too close to Burton's style would've given away the entire game. According to Muschietti:


"How do we integrate a movie that is, tonally, so different? One thing I knew for sure was that I wouldn't try to emulate the cinematography of [Burton's movies] because it would be completely tonally different, but also, it would alert audiences that the world in which Barry lands is a Tim Burton movie. If you go 100% in that direction, you would have to have people with hats and stuff, and this blue-blasted backlights that are so particular in his movies. The level of fantasy in the design would be prohibitive in my movie, so I tried to blend the two worlds, and I think we managed to reach a balance where it's still believable that the Michael Keaton Batman exists in this timeline."

Read More: https://www.slashfilm.com/1316378/the-flash-director-didnt-want-to-go-too-far-into-tim-burton-territory/

This would explain why they skipped right over showing Burton's Gotham in this movie.

[eledoremassis02]

Seems like we'll have a good deleted scene added to the Bluray!

Muchietti said "The insertion of the [Michael Keaton Bruce Wayne] story set up some questions, which is part of a big question that you ask yourself when you're approaching a movie like this. But it was a fun process. How much of [Tim Burton's movies] do we abide by? How much of the aesthetics, how much of the tone? I was very attracted to the idea of finding Bruce Wayne 30 years later and seeing him and basically fantasizing about what his life would have been 30 years later. The idea of, also, the reason why he quit being Batman was very important to me. There's a deleted scene, and you will see in the extras of the digital version of the DVD where that scene is there. We took it out for pacing reasons, but for me, it's very revealing and very important."

Read More: https://www.slashfilm.com/1316409/the-flash-deleted-scene-why-michael-keatons-batman-quit/"

[Gotham Knight]

No white text so be warned.

I've seen the film twice and am ready to talk about it.

I liked it, but I didn't love it. I have two problems with it.

1. The ending. Chalk this up to my knowing too much about the production. I understand why the Clooney ending was used as they want an upbeat ending, but don't want to give false hope for the future of this universe. Not an ideal answer, but an answer. The problem is that it doesn't work for this movie, which even in its final edit feels like it is trying to sell you on having Keaton and Calle stick around. Well, mission accomplished. I want them. The movie scores the sale, intends to make the sale all along, and then bails on it. Now those bright and shining characters who stood out from the pack as audience pleasing are just kinda gone. They're restored, I guess? I'm hoping we get the 2 alternate endings on the Blu-Ray. I know we are getting deleted scenes, but I want those. If they're clean, I'll get my own edit of the film made.

2. The film does entirely too much heavy lifting because it feels like two movies squashed together. Not only does it have the big ambitious multiverse thing that it has to sell, but it also has to do the work of establishing the status quo you expect to find in the first solo picture. We have to remember that thus far we still really don't know much about this version of Barry, so it all feels like Flash 1 and its big ambitious sequel all rolled into one. And when you realize the plot of this film requires a bunch of scenes where Barry has to catch up clueless characters all the time it really bogs the movie down in exposition until it all pays off. Add to that problem number 1 and that the pay off ends up half pregnant because here comes George. 

[KeatonisBatman]

I understand why the Clooney ending was used as they want an upbeat ending, but don't want to give false hope for the future of this universe. Not an ideal answer, but an answer. The problem is that it doesn't work for this movie, which even in its final edit feels like it is trying to sell you on having Keaton and Calle stick around. Well, mission accomplished. I want them. The movie scores the sale, intends to make the sale all along, and then bails on it.

This right here. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[The Dark Knight]

Seems like we'll have a good deleted scene added to the Bluray!

Muchietti said "The insertion of the [Michael Keaton Bruce Wayne] story set up some questions, which is part of a big question that you ask yourself when you're approaching a movie like this. But it was a fun process. How much of [Tim Burton's movies] do we abide by? How much of the aesthetics, how much of the tone? I was very attracted to the idea of finding Bruce Wayne 30 years later and seeing him and basically fantasizing about what his life would have been 30 years later. The idea of, also, the reason why he quit being Batman was very important to me. There's a deleted scene, and you will see in the extras of the digital version of the DVD where that scene is there. We took it out for pacing reasons, but for me, it's very revealing and very important."

Read More: https://www.slashfilm.com/1316409/the-flash-deleted-scene-why-michael-keatons-batman-quit/"

This is exactly the type of content we want to see, and fingers crossed it explains just how Gotham became so safe. I completely endorse fan edits that include all the Keaton related deleted scenes - this one and the endings. I think the Batman stuff we see in the film is good. It's the surrounding content that muddies the waters, and there's no denying a box office bomb hurts how the product is perceived.

[Silver Nemesis]

Seems like we'll have a good deleted scene added to the Bluray!

Muchietti said "The insertion of the [Michael Keaton Bruce Wayne] story set up some questions, which is part of a big question that you ask yourself when you're approaching a movie like this. But it was a fun process. How much of [Tim Burton's movies] do we abide by? How much of the aesthetics, how much of the tone? I was very attracted to the idea of finding Bruce Wayne 30 years later and seeing him and basically fantasizing about what his life would have been 30 years later. The idea of, also, the reason why he quit being Batman was very important to me. There's a deleted scene, and you will see in the extras of the digital version of the DVD where that scene is there. We took it out for pacing reasons, but for me, it's very revealing and very important."

Read More: https://www.slashfilm.com/1316409/the-flash-deleted-scene-why-michael-keatons-batman-quit/"

We must hold him to this promise.

I'm hoping we get the 2 alternate endings on the Blu-Ray. I know we are getting deleted scenes, but I want those. If they're clean, I'll get my own edit of the film made.

I'm looking forward to seeing all the fan edits. The Joker hit the nail on the head in his review when he said the movie had been tinkered with too much. It's a classic case of too many cooks spoiling the broth. But I believe there's a decent film in there somewhere, buried beneath the messy narrative and reshoots. Whenever I watch Batman Forever these days I tend to watch the Virtual Workprint fan edit, as it's much better than the theatrical cut. I'm predicting a similar situation with The Flash, where a fan edit will ultimately supplant the theatrical cut as the preferred version among fans.

I lack the skills and software to make an edit of my own, but I've been brainstorming some ideas for one nonetheless. I'd call my fan edit Batman: Flashpoint or Flashpoint: The Dark Knight Cut, and I'd trim it down to about 90-100 minutes so that it centred on Keaton.

I'd create a new opening title sequence in the style of B89 and BR using the Elfman theme. Then the first scene of the movie would be the conversation between Barry and Affleck (I'd delete everything before that, including the big action sequence with Affleck, Gadot and the babies). From there I'd fade to black, and we'd hear the audio of the Flash being attacked in the Speed Force. Then we'd hard cut to the Flash arriving outside his parents' house in the Flashpoint universe.

There's a lot of exposition in the first hour of the movie, so I'd remove most of that, and as much of Ezra's goofiness as possible, and take the audio of Barry explaining what happened and loop it over a montage summarising the excised footage. I'd try to preserve the flashback scenes involving his parents in their entirety, as those scenes are good and essential for establishing the Flashpoint premise.

My goal would be to condense the first hour of the movie into about 20-30 minutes and get the viewer to stately Wayne Manor much earlier. I'd then restore as many of Keaton's deleted scenes as possible while cutting out as many of Ezra's scenes. I'd want to restore the deleted cameos featuring Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman, Romero's Joker and Meredith's Penguin, and obviously restore the ending with Keaton, Calle and Cavill.

Something along these lines would result in a decent 100-minute Batman movie. I hope someone more talented than myself will create something like this.

[The Joker]

Silver's idea for a 100 minute Batman movie with Keats sounds good to me. Certainly would make the film more rewatchable at home, and overall less inclined to have to fast forward thru all the Miller exposition most of the time.