*SPOILER THREAD* - The Flash

[DocLathropBrown]

I ping pong when it comes to this film.

I can't decide if I like it a fair amount, or if I find it mediocre.

It has a fair set of issues--not the kind that make a movie unwatchable to me, but flaws all the same. After how WB foolishly tried to overhype this flick, I can say that it didn't live up to that hype. For me, the worst thing a film can be is boring or lifeless, and The Flash was not.

It had a lot of things going for it--a genuinely decent through-line and heart. But it's in service to a Barry Allen I've never liked. Regardless of Miller's real life escapades, their Barry Allen has never been "Barry Allen" to me, and that impacts everything. They continued to make Barry an obtuse, fidgety neophyte--and it's not like I didn't know that was possible, going in. They were certainly better than before (and the younger Barry was there for greater contrast), but still, it isn't an ideal portrayal of The Flash... and it adapts a storyline I don't care for. The Barry Allen I knew and loved (Pre-Crisis) was wise and seasoned enough to know not to mess with time. This isn't the film's fault--that's just a case of Geoff Johns changing Barry's character to make such a stupid mistake.

The film's execution leaves much to be desired--it's routinely fine, most of the time... but the fact remains that the comedy should have been dialed back by at least 20%. They didn't interject comedy into the middle of important scenes and that's commendable given the comedic sensibilities on display--I thought for sure we were going to head that way based on the type of jokes they were doing. In spite of all this, the film somehow managed to never irritate me. Perhaps because outside of one aspect (we know which one), I wasn't expecting real greatness.

But you know what? It's all water under the bridge at the end of the day--because this film gave me back my hero, and in full force.

As prettymuch everyone unanimously agrees, Michael Keaton rocked this sh*t, and he rocked it hard. Some of the best Batman stuff put to film--an older, trustworthy hero who, in spite of the amateurs he had to look after, never once lost his cool or failed. Calculating, quick thinking and the bravest man on the planet. Prettymuch single-handedly rescued Supergirl (The Barrys were no help and despite Kara, I think he could have managed to take the guards on the surface), and while any Batman whooping Kryptonians is a tall order without them magic green space rocks, Keaton gave everything he had. Fought until his body could do no more. THAT's how a hero goes out.

The fact that he basically was a main character for the last hour and a half of the film just blows my socks off. It's fair that he not have more screen time than the main character, but in today's world, he could have easily been in the film much less--they gave me enough that I was satisfied, despite the fact we know there was the chance for more. With the plans for Keaton to stick around, they might easily have only had him in this for a measly fifteen or twenty minutes.

His heart-to-heart with Barry at the Batcomputer was a wonderful thing--his movies before were made in a time where too much dialogue from Batman would be demystifying, but in a world that fully embraces superheroes, Keaton finally gets to exposit a bit on Wayne's state of mind and it kind of brings a wonderful cap on his time in the cape and cowl. This is a man who has had time to reflect on his life and see it for what it is. No excuses and no regrets. After all, he succeeded in his task.

But when the world needed him, Batman returned.

His death scene was lovely--very meaningful to me and very reverently performed by Keaton. There was a great sense of acceptance on Bruce's part--again, no regrets. He knew the sacrifice he made had been worth it, even if it was doomed. After all, what more could he do? I think the only thing that could have brought him regret was a refusal to try.

What an experience. I'd probably give the film a 4/10, but Keaton makes it a 7.

[thecolorsblend]

Colors going to a cinema? Seems like a special event rarity from what I understand. Naturally I'll be interested to hear what you think of both the movie and the cinema going experience itself.

I think I can do it. Besides, it's Keaton as Batman, amirite?

The cinema going experience can be hit and miss. The hit is always the big screen, the darkness and the sound. But who you're seated with is luck of the draw. If things escalate in there make sure you don't miss when you go to hit.

Don't expect a movie like Joker or The Batman as the tone is different to that. I still mostly enjoyed the movie though for what it was going for, even if I'd have to push it down my Batman movie appearance ranking as other films are much purer, Batman world centric adaptions.

I was able to get out of the house today after all.

My investment in this movie begins and ends with Keaton. Everything else is secondary (at best).

Bruce has settled into a comfy retirement. As I've said, my personal biography for comic book Batman goes that somewhere in his forties, he's going to wake up one morning and decide that his parents never would've wanted this life for him. After that, he'd retire from Batman activities, destroy any evidence linking him to Batman, lock stately Wayne Manor up, move away from Gotham and... who knows? Maybe marry Selina? Or just vanish into obscurity? It'd be something, I think.

TF uses some of that. It would feel disingenuous for this version of Bruce to get married, have kids, live a public life or even leave Gotham City. But he seems to have found some amount of peace. And after cleaning up the city, he seems perfectly content to hang around stately Wayne Manor munching pizza or SpaghettiOs or something.

The collection of previous Batsuits (however you want to contextualize them) sang to my inner 10 year old, who collected Kenner's Dark Knight Collection and Batman Returns lines. In fact, there seemed to be a fairly noticeable Kenner influence on other aspects of the production, such as Batfleck's Batcycle.

I enjoy the ambiguity of Keaton's final fate. Is he gone forever? Or did he simply return to his own timeline/universe and resume his retirement? I prefer the latter, honestly. I never wanted this version of Batman to ever be killed off. So, going back to the quiet life suits me fine.

Sasha Calle won me over as Kara. It looks like this version of the character is destined to get nuked off the map one way or the other. And in a way, that's a real shame because Calle brings actual strength and gravitas to the role in the (relatively few) scenes she appears in. Certainly, she's a lot more captivating than I was originally expecting.

I could take or leave Ron Livingston as Henry. He makes the most of his scenes. But casting him does seem like a bit of thumb of the nose at Snyder's canon. Still, it's not like Crudup did something with the character that no other actor could hope to match. Livingston is fine.

Casting Maribel Verdú just seems like pandering. This will never make sense to me.

There seems to be debate going around as to how permanent Clooney will be. Some are saying this is a one and done cameo for Clooney to wink at one of his most infamous roles. But some people seem to be arguing that he's The Man going forward. Which, if true, would certainly be a pretty ironic turn of events.

As ever, my grievance with the multiverse as presented in DC adaptations up to now is that there's little to distinguish one version of a character from another. Is Cage's Superman all that different from Cavill or Reeve's?

But the Pre-Crisis multiverse showed real and meaningful differences in one universe as compared to another. On Pre-Crisis Earth 1, Superman is the GOAT. On Earth 2, he's a significant hero but way less powerful than Earth 1. On Earth 3, he's a villain. On Earth 4 (and others), he didn't exist at all. So on and so forth. Point being that all these different Earths/universes are VERY different from each other.

But in today's world, "multiverse" means "let's bring back a bunch of previous incarnations of identical characters".

I had low expectations of TF. And the movie did not disappoint me, to be fair. My sparsely filled screening (MAYBE 50% full?) seemed to genuinely enjoy the movie tho. They laughed at the jokes and even applauded when credits rolled. Whatever fate holds in store for TF at the box office, I'm guessing word of mouth will be generally positive.

[eledoremassis02]

I think I found the mouse used on the Batcomputer. It looks like its the Kensington Expert Trackball Mouse , and according to Amazon, it was first available on ‎July 7, 2004

[The Dark Knight]

Do hope we get them on the bluray, tho I feel like we might not ever see them. Seeing Keaton with DCEU Superman and Wonderwoman would be something!

I liked the way Keaton dismissed the name Superman as being 'on the nose'. Even though it's the first time he's heard of the guy and has no idea who he is, it hints at the friendly rivalry they usually have in traditional timelines. The two titans of the DC universe. Lennon and McCartney.

As prettymuch everyone unanimously agrees, Michael Keaton rocked this sh*t, and he rocked it hard. Some of the best Batman stuff put to film--an older, trustworthy hero who, in spite of the amateurs he had to look after, never once lost his cool or failed. Calculating, quick thinking and the bravest man on the planet. Prettymuch single-handedly rescued Supergirl (The Barrys were no help and despite Kara, I think he could have managed to take the guards on the surface), and while any Batman whooping Kryptonians is a tall order without them magic green space rocks, Keaton gave everything he had. Fought until his body could do no more. THAT's how a hero goes out.

I think it's extremely likely that in every variation of his death, Keaton dies on his own terms and heroically. The two deaths we see are in that spirit. There's no reason to suspect the others wouldn't have been the same.

The scenes from B89 and BR are probably always going to take precedence, but the whole stretch from the Barrys meeting Bruce to Bruce in front of the mirror after rescuing Supergirl is some of the best stuff we've seen from Keaton. Really good stuff there and it justifies the comeback.

What an experience. I'd probably give the film a 4/10, but Keaton makes it a 7.

I'm along the same lines. The Keaton content pushes the score up to around that mark.

I enjoy the ambiguity of Keaton's final fate. Is he gone forever? Or did he simply return to his own timeline/universe and resume his retirement? I prefer the latter, honestly. I never wanted this version of Batman to ever be killed off. So, going back to the quiet life suits me fine.

I like that too. I'm of the opinion he's in his long hair, retired state and completely oblivious as to what happened with the other timeline. But if the world was at serious risk again in the future, like in The Flash, he'd be willing to suit up again and enter the fray. But as it stands Gotham is crime free and he actually achieved his mission. Seeing him again instead of Clooney would've been good, but in the end I don't think it was essential to scream out that he was definitely saved. You can work that out in your head, and he also gets closure in Barry's arms. The movie gets to have its cake and eat it too.

There seems to be debate going around as to how permanent Clooney will be. Some are saying this is a one and done cameo for Clooney to wink at one of his most infamous roles. But some people seem to be arguing that he's The Man going forward. Which, if true, would certainly be a pretty ironic turn of events.

I don't think it will happen at this stage, but I now think he could be a fine Batman in a lighter toned but better sculpted film. He has the charisma for Bruce Wayne and could sell the mentor side of things well. Let's see what happens.

I had low expectations of TF. And the movie did not disappoint me, to be fair. My sparsely filled screening (MAYBE 50% full?) seemed to genuinely enjoy the movie tho. They laughed at the jokes and even applauded when credits rolled. Whatever fate holds in store for TF at the box office, I'm guessing word of mouth will be generally positive.

I've seen a statement that a sequel, presumably with Keaton, would be greenlit if this one makes money similar to The Batman. For the sake of Keaton alone I'm hopeful that occurs, but right now I'm feeling uncertain that total will be reached. The critic score is average on Rotten Tomatoes, but the audience score is currently 85%. Perhaps word of mouth will bump up ticket sales, and audiences are having a good enough time with what they're seeing. Like you, and seemingly everyone here, we at least enjoyed what the film did with Batman.

[Silver Nemesis]

A new HollywoodReporter article going over all the multiple endings.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/the-flash-inside-george-clooney-return-batman-1235517975/

The more I think about the Clooney ending, the more I dislike it. Everything about that scene was lazy. Clooney phoned it in, exuding none of the magnetism that Keaton and Affleck gave off whenever they were on screen. It didn't even feel like Clooney was playing the Schumacher Bruce Wayne. It was more like he was just being himself. 'Remember that guy who played the worst Batman? Well here he is!' It reminded me of those Nespresso coffee ads he used to do, where it was just, 'oh look, it's George Clooney being George Clooney'.

He brought no energy or sparkle to The Flash IMO, and I say that as someone who has a lot of nostalgic fondness for his Batman and B&R in general.

The dialogue was also lame. There were no nods to Clooney's meme-worthy dialogue in B&R. He could've at least said "This is why Supergirl works alone" or something along those lines. But no. We got nothing. Just a character dropping an f-bomb in a PG-13 film, which is one of the laziest and most overused comedy tropes in modern cinema.

If they'd done more with it, it might have worked. Like if they'd had O'Donnell show up too, or at least a stand-in wearing the Robin motorcycle helmet, and then looped in some dialogue where Dick says something like, "Yo Bruce! Get it in gear! Domino's closes in ten!" That would've been lame too, but at least it would've been in the spirit of B&R. Instead they picked the worst of the three possible endings and invested minimum effort or creativity.

And to think, we could've got a more earnest scene with Keaton and Calle returning, confirming that their deaths were not permanent. We could've seen them meet Cavill's Superman. Cavill could have appeared for real instead of as a CGI cameo, and we could've seen him interact with Keaton.

Instead, thanks to Gunn, that scene was sacrificed in favour of a cheap sight gag. If this is a taste of what's to come under Gunn's leadership, then I'm not impressed. Bringing Clooney back was a fun idea that had potential, but I don't think The Flash capitalised on it effectively.

It does seem as though something went down behind the scenes between Cavill and the studio. The way they've treated him since Gunn took over is pretty bad. Maybe he asked for too much money. Or maybe Gunn asked him to cameo in Peacemaker and Cavill told him to sod off, and now Gunn's taking his revenge. Whatever the reason, Cavill should have been in The Flash. If this was the big send-off for the DCEU, then the actor who started it should have made an appearance. That final scene should have been a curtain call for the entire DCEU.

Oh well. As long as the deleted scenes get released, the fan edits can fix this.

What an experience. I'd probably give the film a 4/10, but Keaton makes it a 7.

I'm along the same lines. The Keaton content pushes the score up to around that mark.

Several people have asked me if the film's any good, and I find that a difficult question to answer. The movie itself isn't particularly good, but the Keaton material, which was my only reason for watching it, is excellent. So... is it good? Well, no... and yes. I loved the part of the film I was hyped about seeing, but the rest of it is just ok. It doesn't live up to the absurd 'one of the best superhero movies ever' hype, and yet it didn't disappoint me where it counts.

Without Keaton it'd be another generic disposable CBM, but the Batman storyline is so satisfying that it definitely elevates the overall product. It's been a long time since I felt this conflicted about a movie.

Sasha Calle won me over as Kara. It looks like this version of the character is destined to get nuked off the map one way or the other. And in a way, that's a real shame because Calle brings actual strength and gravitas to the role in the (relatively few) scenes she appears in. Certainly, she's a lot more captivating than I was originally expecting.

I liked Calle's Supergirl too. I wasn't particularly interested in that storyline before seeing the movie, but I thought she did a good job and the overall depiction of the character was different enough from Slater or Benoist's versions to feel interesting. It would be a shame if they didn't bring her back in some form.

[BatmanFurst]

So I saw it again last night and intentionally went to a drive in. A drive in does help to mask bad special effects depending on where you're sitting, so I wasn't as distracted by the VFX like I was in my first viewing.

I did enjoy it a little more now that I'm aware of what kind of movie it is. However, I think the weakest portion for me is the second act stuff with alternate Barry. It eventually does pick back up when Bruce (Keaton) is introduced into it and has good pacing from there until the climax.

[BatmanFurst]

And to think, we could've got a more earnest scene with Keaton and Calle returning, confirming that their deaths were not permanent. We could've seen them meet Cavill's Superman. Cavill could have appeared for real instead of as a CGI cameo, and we could've seen him interact with Keaton.

Again, this is just the problem with doing cinematic universe's on film. That ending is purely in service of the larger picture rather than being in service of this story. I care about the fate of the characters I've been following for the past 2 hours over a wink at the audience cameo. Again, I'm ready to just see these heroes being in self contained universes because putting them all together holds the quality of the movie back imo.

And yes it's definitely a reshoot because Miller looked noticeably different to me.

[Silver Nemesis]

The Critical Drinker has posted his review. He hated everything about it except Keaton.

[Silver Nemesis]

Another reason for having Cavill in the finale is that it would have offered an emotional conclusion to Supergirl's storyline. The alternate universe is imperilled owing to Superman's absence. Keaton's Justice League try picking up the slack, but ultimately fail. The world needs Superman, and having him return at the end and meet his cousin – a cousin who was heartbroken by her failure to protect and avenge him in the Flashpoint universe – would have ended Supergirl's storyline on a touching familial note.

But Gunn and his colleagues decided the Clooney ending was better, so that's what we got.

[BatmanFurst]

I'm sure someone else has mentioned this by now, but I really liked the bullet proof cape. Idk if it was a direct reference to this, but in Sam Hamm's original draft and in the comic book adaptation of the 89 film the cape was originally how Batman deflected Napier's bullet at Axis Chemicals.