*SPOILER THREAD* - The Flash

[Kamdan]

Supposedly, this theater had a midnight showing for "Batman and Robin" just last weekend.

In regards to "The Flash", that's timely!

That's Quentin Tarantino's theater. They're known for playing 35mm prints.

I'm frankly kind of disappointed that there haven't been opportunities for screenings of Batman '89 & Returns in anticipation of Keaton's return in The Flash. Warners is notorious for holding moratoriums on their previous movie when a new version comes out. You'd think they'd allow a couple of screenings to help drum up the excitement. A 4K edition of Mask of the Phantasm is coming out just in time for Batman Day. Maybe they'll throw in the two Keaton films if The Flash is a hit.

[The Joker]

That's Quentin Tarantino's theater. They're known for playing 35mm prints.

I'm frankly kind of disappointed that there haven't been opportunities for screenings of Batman '89 & Returns in anticipation of Keaton's return in The Flash. Warners is notorious for holding moratoriums on their previous movie when a new version comes out. You'd think they'd allow a couple of screenings to help drum up the excitement. A 4K edition of Mask of the Phantasm is coming out just in time for Batman Day. Maybe they'll throw in the two Keaton films if The Flash is a hit.

The local theater to me has provided numerous opportunities to see "Batman '89" as apart of their 'Flashback Cinema' screenings over the past 7-8 years. However, absolutely zero screenings for Returns/Forever/B&R. "Batman The Movie 1966" was shown a few times in prep for "Batman v Superman" back in 2016, but hasn't been provided since. I had the opportunity to check out "Mask of the Phantasm" as it was apart of a special 'one night only' Fandango screening two or three years ago, but that's about it. I've seen an advertisement on Twitter where at least one theater somewhere is providing a "Batman '89/The Flash" double feature. That would be pretty fun.

[Travesty]

Ok, it's the spoilers thread. I'm not writing in white, because....its' the spoilers thread. So yeah, I'm openly talking here.



I don't know how I feel about it? Overall, I liked it enough, but I don't think it's an overall great movie. It's just ok. Now, I was totally happy with the Keaton stuff, which is why I even went to the theater, but all of the Flash stuff was pretty mediocre. I actually think Grant Guston's Flash is way better, and did a better job at handling some of these beats and story lines. I did laugh at some of the jokes, but there were quite a few that fell completely flat, and I hated young Barry. His "dude-isms" were just so over the top annoying, it really took me out. I'm just not a fan of his Barry Allen.

So, I dunno, it was ok. But I was a bit miffed that there was no Cavil cameo. I guess you can kinda claim that was him on the TV with the laser beams, but man, WB really hates that guy for some reason, lol. I was expecting a Nic Cage cameo, and of course, we got it and it was amazing. Way better than I was expecting. The spider was hilarious, but man, he looked good. Other than that, the movie literally played out exactly how I was expecting. I already thought Dark Flash was going to be Barry, and it was obvious the second he started taking shrapnel. So I dunno, if you read Flashpoint and watched the trailers, you pretty much know exactly how the movie will play out.

So again, it was an ok movie. Something I don't need to see again in theaters, but will definitely watch again when it comes to home release. I'll be re-watching the Keaton scenes over and over again. But that's about it.

[Silver Nemesis]

After a long, long wait, I've finally seen it.

I thought it was ok. Not as good as I'd have liked, but not as bad as I'd feared. It's definitely nowhere near as good as Joker (2019) or The Batman (2022), but I enjoyed it a lot more than the Batman '89 comic.

The Keaton material is generally great. He doesn't get the Jake Skywalker treatment as we'd feared, but is depicted as stronger and faster than ever, assuming a leadership role in the alternate JLA and showing off his skills, ingenuity and intellect to impressive effect. In the old movies he was knocked to the ground by handgun fire, but now he can absorb rifle fire from multiple gunmen at close range without losing his footing. I loved his fight scene against the Russian soldiers (though it was somewhat ruined by the comedy shots of Barry vomiting – hopefully someone will upload a clip of that fight to YouTube with the Barry shots removed), and his performance during the final battle was equally impressive. Batfleck managed to defeat Superman with the aid of kryptonite, but Keaton temporarily subdues Nam-Ek without kryptonite. The last time we saw Keaton's Batman in a one-on-one fight against a comic book villain, he was beating up the Penguin. Now he's facing off against Nam-Ek. That one helluva steep difficulty curve.

I liked seeing Keaton's Batman in a sci-fi context I've not seen him in before. In his earlier adventures he was fighting criminals in Gotham City, but in The Flash we get to see him leading his own mini JLA against a global threat. He's fast enough to stand toe-to-toe against speedsters and Kryptonians, and his new costume and weapons all look great. Keaton himself faultlessly slips back into the role, and I appreciate that they gave him some quieter reflective moments amid the action and comedy.

Keaton is the one aspect of the movie that I'm more or less happy with. My only criticism of his return is that they could have capitalised more on the unique mythos surrounding his Batman. They could have referenced Pfeiffer's Catwoman or Billy Dee Two-Face, or they could have made the alternate universe resemble the aesthetic of the Burtonverse. Instead the only references to the earlier movies take the form of fan service lines of dialogue or visual nods. Remember this object from Batman '89? Remember when Batman said this line in Batman '89? That's about as deep as the connections to the earlier movies get. It could just as easily have been Kilmer's Batman or Clooney's. I'm glad it was Keaton's, and his performance brings depth to the part, but I just think the script could have done more with those connections.

Other than that, I'm happy with Keaton's return. He had about half an hour of screen time in Batman Returns, and I imagine he has a roughly similar amount of screen time in The Flash. So there's going to be plenty for us to talk about and analyse in the future.

Moving on to other aspects of the film.

I've never liked Miller's interpretation of the Flash, and I've been a vocal critic of his since long before the allegations of misconduct emerged. He's bad enough as a comic relief sidekick, but as the main protagonist he's insufferable. He does a good job during the quieter emotional moments, but those scenes are too few to offset the irritation he provokes throughout the rest of the film. Hopefully this is the last we'll be seeing of his Barry.

There weren't many people at the screening I attended, and the few present were my age or older. There were no kids in the audience, which was just as well given the amount of swearing and stabbing scenes. Did they really have to say "sh*t" quite so many times, let alone drop an f-bomb? The movie's tone is juvenile, yet the violence and swearing make it unsuitable for the younger demographics that would best appreciate its humour. It's very tonally uneven, drifting from slapstick silliness to moments of sombre emotion that would've worked better in a less campy film.

Some people in the audience laughed at the jokes, but I didn't personally find them funny. The humour is the formulaic kind displayed in most modern CBMs: someone says or does something inappropriate to undermine an otherwise dramatic moment, pop songs play during action scenes to juxtapose the upbeat melody against the violence, heroes trade banter filled with pop culture references (usually to eighties movies or Star Wars), someone says "WTF", etc. If you find the first two Tom Holland Spider-Man movies funny, you'll probably like this too.

But if you're hoping for something on a par with No Way Home – which was the only film in Holland's trilogy that I liked – you might be disappointed. The Flash is a full-on comedy, which is odd considering it's based on Flashpoint. Flashpoint isn't a comedy, but a dark dystopian tragedy about Barry having to let go of his mother and the life he could have shared with her. That concept is still definitely present in the movie, and the film works best when emphasising Barry's emotional bond with his mother. However those scenes, effective though they are, feel incongruous in what is otherwise a slapstick comedy. I wish they'd played it more serious. A little humour is welcome, but I felt they overdid it here. The best parts of the film are the darker and more serious moments, and I wish there'd been more of them.

The movie is also too long. There are a lot of comedic and expository scenes in the first hour that could easily have been trimmed, and the final battle, as in most CBMs, is overblown. I don't understand why infantry were being deployed against alien air craft, or why the human soldiers kept slowly walking towards the Kryptonians firing rifles that had no effect on them. The Kryptonians also seemed slower and less durable than in Man of Steel. In Justice League, Superman was able to match the Flash's speed, but here the two Barry's were able to literally run circles around the Kryptonians and even incapacitate one of them with a vibratory strike to the chest. And Batman was able to knock out Nam-Ek with a bat-bomb. This struck me as inconsistent with the pre-established durability of the DCEU Kryptonians, though I didn't mind too much as it made Keaton seem more formidable.

I know some critics have compared the CGI in this film to a Playstation 3 game, and they weren't exaggerating. The Flash contains some of the worst special effects I've seen in a modern movie. There must be a story behind that. Maybe the artists didn't have time to finish them properly, or perhaps the reshoots meant they were given too many scenes to animate. Whatever the reason, I'm sure an explanation will emerge in time. I can imagine Corridor Crew doing a video about this movie at some point, and perhaps fixing some of those effects themselves.

I can also imagine this being the sort of film that will inspire fan edits. I'd like to see a more serious cut that trims the running time and reduces Miller's goofy dialogue to a minimum. I like to re-watch most movies in their entirety, but occasionally I'll see a film where one viewing is enough. After that, I prefer to just re-watch the best bits on YouTube. The Flash is one of those movies. I probably will get the DVD when it comes out, but I expect I'll be less inclined to re-watch the entire movie than just my favourite scenes. It's that kind of a film.

I've got many more things to say about The Flash, but I'll stop here for now. The score by Benjamin Wallfisch is good, and I enjoyed the cameos, even if they were poorly animated and only there for cheap fan service (Cage's was the best). If I were evaluating this film objectively, I'd say it's an average 5/10 CBM. However, Keaton's return strikes a personal chord with me, and that elevates it slightly. Fans of the Burton-Schumacher Batman series will enjoy this more than most, but without the Keaton element I don't think it's strong enough to stand on its own. So it's an average/mixed response from me.

[eledoremassis02]

Just got done with it and it's pretty much what I expected. The pre time travel stuff felt more like the theatrical cut of justice league but a bit more controlled. Affleck felt off, but he also felt off in the nightmare stuff in ZSJL.

Keaton has not missed a beat and him doing comedy and drama served this movie well. He felt in line with his Burton counterpart. The 89 call backs worked for me. The joker bag shows there must be a trophy room (I mean having a memento from the death of your parents killer is something!)

I think the one thing that does suck is that it appears that the theatrical cut of justice is the cannon tho Flash going back in time has nice call backs to when he did in ZSJL

Young flash was annoying but he was supposed to be and I was glad about that. It was like young flash was theatrical justice league and older flash was Snyder's.

Super girl surprised me and I really liked her, she's almost up there with cavils superman. It is interesting how she had the codex in her and not Clark. However, it still pays service to Snyder's Superman because in the end, the world needed superman.


Now if this is an amalgamation, what's interesting is that 78 superman and 89 are now officially set in the same universe but Tim Burton's Superman also was supposed to have Keatons Bruce Wayne and Schumacher was also supposed to be that same batman.

Clooney was a fun callback and a nice way to end the movie and respect the history of Burtons Batman (it ends with Clooney) but this time Keaton had a proper send off this time.

[GBglide]

I was pleasantly surprised to find that Keaton's Batman succeeded in cleaning up Gotham. Has that ever happened with any other version of Batman (comic or movie)?

[BatmanFurst]

After a long, long wait, I've finally seen it.

I thought it was ok. Not as good as I'd have liked, but not as bad as I'd feared. It's definitely nowhere near as good as Joker (2019) or The Batman (2022), but I enjoyed it a lot more than the Batman '89 comic.

The Keaton material is generally great. He doesn't get the Jake Skywalker treatment as we'd feared, but is depicted as stronger and faster than ever, assuming a leadership role in the alternate JLA and showing off his skills, ingenuity and intellect to impressive effect. In the old movies he was knocked to the ground by handgun fire, but now he can absorb rifle fire from multiple gunmen at close range without losing his footing. I loved his fight scene against the Russian soldiers (though it was somewhat ruined by the comedy shots of Barry vomiting – hopefully someone will upload a clip of that fight to YouTube with the Barry shots removed), and his performance during the final battle was equally impressive. Batfleck managed to defeat Superman with the aid of kryptonite, but Keaton temporarily subdues Nam-Ek without kryptonite. The last time we saw Keaton's Batman in a one-on-one fight against a comic book villain, he was beating up the Penguin. Now he's facing off against Nam-Ek. That one helluva steep difficulty curve.

I liked seeing Keaton's Batman in a sci-fi context I've not seen him in before. In his earlier adventures he was fighting criminals in Gotham City, but in The Flash we get to see him leading his own mini JLA against a global threat. He's fast enough to stand toe-to-toe against speedsters and Kryptonians, and his new costume and weapons all look great. Keaton himself faultlessly slips back into the role, and I appreciate that they gave him some quieter reflective moments amid the action and comedy.

Keaton is the one aspect of the movie that I'm more or less happy with. My only criticism of his return is that they could have capitalised more on the unique mythos surrounding his Batman. They could have referenced Pfeiffer's Catwoman or Billy Dee Two-Face, or they could have made the alternate universe resemble the aesthetic of the Burtonverse. Instead the only references to the earlier movies take the form of fan service lines of dialogue or visual nods. Remember this object from Batman '89? Remember when Batman said this line in Batman '89? That's about as deep as the connections to the earlier movies get. It could just as easily have been Kilmer's Batman or Clooney's. I'm glad it was Keaton's, and his performance brings depth to the part, but I just think the script could have done more with those connections.

Other than that, I'm happy with Keaton's return. He had about half an hour of screen time in Batman Returns, and I imagine he has a roughly similar amount of screen time in The Flash. So there's going to be plenty for us to talk about and analyse in the future.

Moving on to other aspects of the film.

I've never liked Miller's interpretation of the Flash, and I've been a vocal critic of his since long before the allegations of misconduct emerged. He's bad enough as a comic relief sidekick, but as the main protagonist he's insufferable. He does a good job during the quieter emotional moments, but those scenes are too few to offset the irritation he provokes throughout the rest of the film. Hopefully this is the last we'll be seeing of his Barry.

There weren't many people at the screening I attended, and the few present were my age or older. There were no kids in the audience, which was just as well given the amount of swearing and stabbing scenes. Did they really have to say "sh*t" quite so many times, let alone drop an f-bomb? The movie's tone is juvenile, yet the violence and swearing make it unsuitable for the younger demographics that would best appreciate its humour. It's very tonally uneven, drifting from slapstick silliness to moments of sombre emotion that would've worked better in a less campy film.

Some people in the audience laughed at the jokes, but I didn't personally find them funny. The humour is the formulaic kind displayed in most modern CBMs: someone says or does something inappropriate to undermine an otherwise dramatic moment, pop songs play during action scenes to juxtapose the upbeat melody against the violence, heroes trade banter filled with pop culture references (usually to eighties movies or Star Wars), someone says "WTF", etc. If you find the first two Tom Holland Spider-Man movies funny, you'll probably like this too.

But if you're hoping for something on a par with No Way Home – which was the only film in Holland's trilogy that I liked – you might be disappointed. The Flash is a full-on comedy, which is odd considering it's based on Flashpoint. Flashpoint isn't a comedy, but a dark dystopian tragedy about Barry having to let go of his mother and the life he could have shared with her. That concept is still definitely present in the movie, and the film works best when emphasising Barry's emotional bond with his mother. However those scenes, effective though they are, feel incongruous in what is otherwise a slapstick comedy. I wish they'd played it more serious. A little humour is welcome, but I felt they overdid it here. The best parts of the film are the darker and more serious moments, and I wish there'd been more of them.

The movie is also too long. There are a lot of comedic and expository scenes in the first hour that could easily have been trimmed, and the final battle, as in most CBMs, is overblown. I don't understand why infantry were being deployed against alien air craft, or why the human soldiers kept slowly walking towards the Kryptonians firing rifles that had no effect on them. The Kryptonians also seemed slower and less durable than in Man of Steel. In Justice League, Superman was able to match the Flash's speed, but here the two Barry's were able to literally run circles around the Kryptonians and even incapacitate one of them with a vibratory strike to the chest. And Batman was able to knock out Nam-Ek with a bat-bomb. This struck me as inconsistent with the pre-established durability of the DCEU Kryptonians, though I didn't mind too much as it made Keaton seem more formidable.

I know some critics have compared the CGI in this film to a Playstation 3 game, and they weren't exaggerating. The Flash contains some of the worst special effects I've seen in a modern movie. There must be a story behind that. Maybe the artists didn't have time to finish them properly, or perhaps the reshoots meant they were given too many scenes to animate. Whatever the reason, I'm sure an explanation will emerge in time. I can imagine Corridor Crew doing a video about this movie at some point, and perhaps fixing some of those effects themselves.

I can also imagine this being the sort of film that will inspire fan edits. I'd like to see a more serious cut that trims the running time and reduces Miller's goofy dialogue to a minimum. I like to re-watch most movies in their entirety, but occasionally I'll see a film where one viewing is enough. After that, I prefer to just re-watch the best bits on YouTube. The Flash is one of those movies. I probably will get the DVD when it comes out, but I expect I'll be less inclined to re-watch the entire movie than just my favourite scenes. It's that kind of a film.

I've got many more things to say about The Flash, but I'll stop here for now. The score by Benjamin Wallfisch is good, and I enjoyed the cameos, even if they were poorly animated and only there for cheap fan service (Cage's was the best). If I were evaluating this film objectively, I'd say it's an average 5/10 CBM. However, Keaton's return strikes a personal chord with me, and that elevates it slightly. Fans of the Burton-Schumacher Batman series will enjoy this more than most, but without the Keaton element I don't think it's strong enough to stand on its own. So it's an average/mixed response from me.

I  agree with a lot of what you've said here. This was my most anticipated comic book film of the year partially because of Keaton's performance, but also due to the word of mouth. Ultimately I came out thinking it was just fine. It's the same way I felt about Guardian's 3 and the majority of comic book movies that come out nowadays.

Regarding Keaton's Batman, it didn't really feel like you get a real sense as to what he's been up to since Returns. Him seemingly being a hermit of sorts didn't seem like that big of a stretch since that version of the character has always kept to himself. However, I did find it strange that there was zero security at Wayne Manor and in the Batcave. I also thought it was weird that there was no real acknowledgment of his age. When he's in the Batsuit he's fighting as if he's in his 30's.

And yeah Silver, I also found the use of old lines and references to the Burton films eye rolling at times. Think about this for a second, does it make any sense for Batman to have Joker's laugh box from the end of the original film? Not only was he not the one to find the box, but why would he keep a memento from his parents killer? That's purely in service of a "Hey, remember this?" moment rather than anything that makes character sense. It did reek a bit of what bothered me in No Way Home. That's another example where it felt like the writers didn't actually know how to write the other Spider-Men, so instead they just coasted on jokes and references.

The cameos at the end were also cringe and eye rolling for me as well. The CG was poor, and injecting versions of other heroes into superhero films has become tiresome for me at this point.

Walking out of this film I did have the distinct feeling of being over the genre at this point. It feels like everytime I've gotten my hopes up for a comic book movie within the last few years I've always been let down. It's crazy to me that X2, Spider-Man 2, and The Dark Knight came out nearly 20 years ago and yet they're all so ahead of the usual comic book movie fare that comes out nowadays. Why aren't we getting films of that caliber on a yearly basis? It honestly feels like this cinematic universe bs is really holding the genre back from realizing it's full potential.

[BatmanFurst]

I was pleasantly surprised to find that Keaton's Batman succeeded in cleaning up Gotham. Has that ever happened with any other version of Batman (comic or movie)?

Not that I've read, but I did like that detail as well. It would've bothered me if he's retired and his whole crusade was for nothing.

[GBglide]

I was pleasantly surprised to find that Keaton's Batman succeeded in cleaning up Gotham. Has that ever happened with any other version of Batman (comic or movie)?

Not that I've read, but I did like that detail as well. It would've bothered me if he's retired and his whole crusade was for nothing.

True, I've never liked the comic idea that Gotham is literally on cursed soil. It makes Batman's job impossible, the best he can do is keep everything in check.

[The Dark Knight]

I was pleasantly surprised to find that Keaton's Batman succeeded in cleaning up Gotham. Has that ever happened with any other version of Batman (comic or movie)?

Not that I've read, but I did like that detail as well. It would've bothered me if he's retired and his whole crusade was for nothing.

True, I've never liked the comic idea that Gotham is literally on cursed soil. It makes Batman's job impossible, the best he can do is keep everything in check.

It's a general statement that doesn't give context as to how it happened. I lean on the side of not liking the idea crime vanishes from Gotham like magic. Because of that, I'm imagining that perhaps this Batman's other villains met similar fates to that of the Joker and the Penguin, and any other remaining lower level threats were kept in line with drones patrolling the streets in the real Batman's physical absence.