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#81
Other DC Films & TV / Re: Wonder Woman (2017)
Last post by The Joker - Wed, 16 Oct 2024, 02:24With Gal, I think she could have easily pulled off a Wonder Woman 3 with minimum fuss. Shazam 2 came out, when? Last year? Gal had a small cameo in that, and I don't know? She looked pretty good to me. Course, when you have a amplitude of positive goodwill from the GA/fans (which I think Gal has with the role), they are more willing to overlook a lot in suspending disbelief just to see the actor reprise the role again and again.
Unfortunately, CBM's are not the sure-thing hit nowadays, and there's just no appetite for a WW3. Audiences are just not going to show up for nearly anything Superhero related like they did in the past, and sequels to billion dollar films can very easily fall flat on their face at the box office. Since 2019, outside of some very select outliers, it's pretty much been a series of diminishing returns...
#82
Batman (1989) / Re: Michael Biehn's Batman sto...
Last post by The Joker - Wed, 16 Oct 2024, 02:04Yeah, even though Robin Williams will always be best remembered for being a brilliant comedic actor, he was also amazing playing darker characters. "Insomnia", "One Hour Photo", his appearance on "Law & Order" ... we really missed out with Williams as the Riddler.
#83
The Batman (2022) / Re: The Penguin (2024)
Last post by The Joker - Wed, 16 Oct 2024, 02:02
Sofia Falcone, you have never done a thing wrong in your life.
#84
Movies / Re: Are You Afraid of the Dark...
Last post by Silver Nemesis - Mon, 14 Oct 2024, 16:44 #85
Current Runs / Re: Absolute Batman
Last post by thecolorsblend - Sun, 13 Oct 2024, 18:13What I've seen of it, the art looks like a cross between Tim Sale and Frank Miller. The two great tastes... that don't taste great together, sadly.
#86
Batman (1989) / Re: Michael Biehn's Batman sto...
Last post by thecolorsblend - Sun, 13 Oct 2024, 01:39Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 12 Oct 2024, 02:25I believe Robin Williams' name was associated with Batman movies no less than three times.His absence from the Batman films will always be one of the great misfortunes of cinema history. I love Carrey's performance. But I'd trade it in a heartbeat for Williams.
1. Essentially used as bait to persuade Jack Nicholson to sign on as the Joker. (Batman 1989)
2. Pursued for the role of the Riddler by Joel Schumacher. Williams (per Schumacher) remained cordial, but ultimately noncommittal. Role eventually was offered to Jim Carrey instead. (Batman Forever)
3. Williams openly opined that he would like a "role" in Chris Nolan's followup to "Batman Begins" around 2006. I can't remember if "The Dark Knight" title was settled at that point, but this sparked speculation that Robin Williams might appear as Nolan's version of the Joker. (The Dark Knight 2008)
I vaguely remember Robin Williams was also brought up somewhat when there was online speculation on which villain was going to be used for "The Dark Knight Rises" prior to Bane being announced. Riddler was one for sure. I think Hugo Strange was also another.
"The things we could've done together..."
#87
Other DC Films & TV / Re: Wonder Woman (2017)
Last post by thecolorsblend - Sun, 13 Oct 2024, 01:35She was 30 on the nose when she filmed the first Wonder Woman film. She looked 25.
To put it delicately, Gadot, um, doesn't exactly look 25 anymore these days. Hell, she doesn't even look 30, frankly.
Now, I like her portrayal of Wonder Woman as much as the next guy. But are we supposed to pretend like we're surprised that a ~40 year old woman has been disqualified from playing the character? Even if WW84 had been a masterpiece (which it wasn't), there would still be a VERY strong argument that Gadot has just plain aged out of playing an immortal/eternally young character.
On a more practical level, I just love Connie Nielsen's girl math. "Herpa derpa the first one made $800 million!" Apparently, the second one making (at best) -$30 million shouldn't matter to anyone.
Batman & Robin brought the franchise to a screeching halt... even tho it technically turned some kind profit at the box office. Nobody calls WB's decision to close out the old franchise and reboot with a new one a narcissistic business decision. On the contrary, their decision to do so is generally considered to be one of the greatest masterstrokes in the history of cinema.
To put it delicately, Gadot, um, doesn't exactly look 25 anymore these days. Hell, she doesn't even look 30, frankly.
Now, I like her portrayal of Wonder Woman as much as the next guy. But are we supposed to pretend like we're surprised that a ~40 year old woman has been disqualified from playing the character? Even if WW84 had been a masterpiece (which it wasn't), there would still be a VERY strong argument that Gadot has just plain aged out of playing an immortal/eternally young character.
On a more practical level, I just love Connie Nielsen's girl math. "Herpa derpa the first one made $800 million!" Apparently, the second one making (at best) -$30 million shouldn't matter to anyone.
Batman & Robin brought the franchise to a screeching halt... even tho it technically turned some kind profit at the box office. Nobody calls WB's decision to close out the old franchise and reboot with a new one a narcissistic business decision. On the contrary, their decision to do so is generally considered to be one of the greatest masterstrokes in the history of cinema.
#88
Joker 2: Folie à Deux / Re: Joker: Folie à Deux (2024)
Last post by thecolorsblend - Sat, 12 Oct 2024, 21:13As far as I'm concerned, this is the spoiler thread. So, I don't really see much of a point in masking spoiler info. If you're trying to avoid that, go someplace else.
No, this movie does not stack up to the original. Not for me anyway.
But having said that, I do like the idea of the Joker struggling to live up to his own legend. I do see that as a reasonable interpretation of the character. Hell, post-A Death In The Family, there was an arc in the comics where the Joker truly was afraid of himself.
Plus, my interpretation of the Joker is that deep down inside, he knows he's a wannabe showman who isn't as funny or as clever as he pretends. There's a reason his trademark is murder rather than punchlines.
On that basis JFAD shows us a Joker who is living that struggle out a lot more openly. Is he Arthur, the loser? Or the Joker, the icon?
Depending on how you want to bend the spoons, you could see Arthur's struggle in the film, esp the pivotal "it was me" moment in the courtroom as his Come To Jesus moment, his last attempt to be accepted for who he truly sees himself to be rather than the monster he has occasionally transformed into.
Sadly, even the only "true love" he's ever experienced wants nothing to do with Arthur The Man and everything to do with Joker The Murdering Celebrity. Lee doesn't actually care about Arthur the man.
And in a way, Arthur really only has himself to blame. His attorney laid it all out for him. She told him exactly what Lee's agenda is. But Arthur made the wrong choice anyway.
It wouldn't have changed the jury's verdict, of course. But at least Arthur would've been found guilty of being a murderer rather than being found guilty for trying and failing to be something other than himself.
If I didn't need a second film, I certainly don't need a third one. But if a third one does somehow get made, then a film where Arthur finally learns his lesson and becomes the Joker as much because it's own dark side as well as because it's only refuge could be fascinating.
A third film seems highly unlikely at this point. Especially if you take the final shot of the movie purely at face value. Still, I don't think this was entirely a waste of time. Granted, I've only seen the movie once. But it looks like the creators all had their hearts in the right place and the fandom menace contingent are overreacting.
Or maybe I'm underreacting?
Time will tell.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 4 Oct 2024, 05:33It's a real deal sequel and a good one. It's undeserving of the strong hate and it seems a lot of people are buying into that without actually seeing it themselves. Or not approaching it from the right perspective when they do. They are way too hung up on 'who is the real Joker' and the ending. The crux of the movie is the cult of celebrity worship and the pressure of expectation.Once more, I never needed this film to exist. I was perfectly content for the original JOKER to be a one-and-done triumph. But a $1 billion box office has a funny way of making people reconsider the idea of sequels that seemed unnecessary.
IMO Arthur is absolutely the Joker of this universe regardless if we want to take that road, it's just that the legend outgrew him and took on a life of its own. I don't think he wanted to create a movement but he nonetheless was at the centre of it. Joker is mostly a construct in Arthur's mind for escapism, and a fantasy the followers fell in love with. It took too much of a toll on the real man behind it. When he gave them what they wanted he took the full brunt, especially away from the cameras. It didn't benefit him personally in the long term.
Philips and Phoenix should be getting praise - segments of the audience rejecting Arthur is proving the film's point. I love this movie the more I think about it. It's a different look at the character and I'm glad it exists.
No, this movie does not stack up to the original. Not for me anyway.
But having said that, I do like the idea of the Joker struggling to live up to his own legend. I do see that as a reasonable interpretation of the character. Hell, post-A Death In The Family, there was an arc in the comics where the Joker truly was afraid of himself.
Plus, my interpretation of the Joker is that deep down inside, he knows he's a wannabe showman who isn't as funny or as clever as he pretends. There's a reason his trademark is murder rather than punchlines.
On that basis JFAD shows us a Joker who is living that struggle out a lot more openly. Is he Arthur, the loser? Or the Joker, the icon?
Depending on how you want to bend the spoons, you could see Arthur's struggle in the film, esp the pivotal "it was me" moment in the courtroom as his Come To Jesus moment, his last attempt to be accepted for who he truly sees himself to be rather than the monster he has occasionally transformed into.
Sadly, even the only "true love" he's ever experienced wants nothing to do with Arthur The Man and everything to do with Joker The Murdering Celebrity. Lee doesn't actually care about Arthur the man.
And in a way, Arthur really only has himself to blame. His attorney laid it all out for him. She told him exactly what Lee's agenda is. But Arthur made the wrong choice anyway.
It wouldn't have changed the jury's verdict, of course. But at least Arthur would've been found guilty of being a murderer rather than being found guilty for trying and failing to be something other than himself.
If I didn't need a second film, I certainly don't need a third one. But if a third one does somehow get made, then a film where Arthur finally learns his lesson and becomes the Joker as much because it's own dark side as well as because it's only refuge could be fascinating.
A third film seems highly unlikely at this point. Especially if you take the final shot of the movie purely at face value. Still, I don't think this was entirely a waste of time. Granted, I've only seen the movie once. But it looks like the creators all had their hearts in the right place and the fandom menace contingent are overreacting.
Or maybe I'm underreacting?
Time will tell.
#89
Current Runs / Re: Absolute Batman
Last post by The Dark Knight - Sat, 12 Oct 2024, 04:34I didn't like it unfortunately. Felt too try hard. I find the axe dumb and still don't like Batman's design.
#90
Joker 2: Folie à Deux / Re: Joker: Folie à Deux (2024)
Last post by The Joker - Sat, 12 Oct 2024, 02:39Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 11 Oct 2024, 08:42Yep. There's disappointment and confusion circulating about who the 'real Joker' is. Some viewers are adamant the inmate who stabs Arthur was actually the Joker all this time because he begins laughing and carves his own face. To me that's nothing more than Arthur's legacy, which wasn't originally intended - he was acting independently in the first movie, as he says "do I look like the kind of clown that could start a movement?" To me, The Joker of this series is both a real man and an idea. Arthur took on the title, abandoned it, then the followers sought to preserve the spirit of Arthur's original appearance on Murray Franklin. Arthur did take on the moniker first. He put on makeup and dyed his hair green. He had various traits of the comic character, namely suicidal ideation, off color jokes, extreme thinness, killing people on television, etc. He had his own version of Harley albeit with a twist to their relationship. The point is that NOBODY can live up to the shadow of what it all stands for, not even Arthur's killer who carved himself a smile. In this more real setting he's staying locked up in jail and probably getting a death sentence too. A point is that people only see the anarchy and not the mentally troubled man behind it all.
That's exactly how I see it as well. I've seen videos and read theories about the guy being the *real* Joker, or even Ledger's Joker (which I can't wrap my brain around, but I also remember people thinking "Batman Begins" was a prequel to "Batman 1989", and I just never understood how that possibly works or even makes sense?), but nah. In this iteration, Fleck is the original and defacto Joker. It's just his persona/shadow eventually swallows up the man behind the Joker alter ego, and who's 'shadow' simply looms large, and will continue to loom large, long past the innovator himself.
QuoteInteresting comparisons to Ted Bundy in the movie too. He got rid of his defence team, represented himself and had a delusional female (Carole) strongly fighting his case. The difference is that she believed Ted was innocent. Lee liked Arthur for his killing. When Bundy admitted to being a murderer in his last days (mainly as a last ditch tactic) Carole stopped talking and wanted nothing to do with him. Her delusion was over. In contrast, Lee walked away too but her warped mindset continued. They both loved the man on the stands for who they thought them to be.
QFT. We already are aware of the Gacy/Pogo connections with Phillips' iteration of the Joker, and I also have no problem envisioning there being a blatant Ted Bundy influence. Especially considering Bundy is probably considered one of the more charismatic when considering high profile serial killers.