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Tim Burton should start over to show what a real Tim Burton BatMan or Joker should be

I believe he has already shown what a real Joker should be like. His Joker struck a perfect balance. The point is that Nicholson's prissy comic Joker (white skin, clown toys, etc) contrasts with Ledger's punk creation. I don't see the point in trying to out-gruesome Ledger's Joker. Don't acknowledge it. Stick to the real intent of the comic, cos' Burton nailed it first time - with or without limitations. Yin and Yang, man!

I already know the contrast between both Jokers. I'm not really talking about actually trying to out-gruesome Heath either, but that it could do better than him in what people perceived in darkness or being creepy in 08 in the end run. Who knows. Its something I'd like to see, is all. Most called Jack's Joker camp by now and no less, and yet, this truer Burton take could be even more so messed up than anyone of them put together, while still using some "toys". Still, the joker you see here in 89 was based heavily more on Steve's line of comics, which the producer's cobbled together with other sources for the film's take. TKJ was released in the same year the shooting draft was made and not much was there Burton could do on adding references or key character traits, lightly different here, in that time with the limits to his directing.

I'm not even certain as to what you mean by "he" nailed it in the head the first time, as Burton was so far away he was nearly a blip, regardless to what his fans think of his role on the film. Most of this film is without much of his imagination. You know it when Burton doesn't even like the tone of it itself. It would end up about the same way it did without him to one point, though maybe not to the letter of what we have today. So really, there isn't even a first time to one extent.

Remember, I say this having noted him having to input his favorite TKJ material into another character. My mind frame was bent on seeing what he would do with the ability to input its inspiration or references in correctly, where they belong, with Joker.


EDIT: Just to note, while this is what I'd rather him do, I still would like to see simply a third film too. I wouldn't mind it, even with the above said. I'm not separating the film that far from any of Burton's more involved sequels. Almost rather seamless to me. I always wanted a real third film too. Maybe about ScareCrow or other. I think Tim would go hand in hand with the art and characteristics of the character.

I'd rather him redo the first film into his own intent, rather continuing.

Nah. That's the last thing I'd want. You can't top perfection. Such talk is alright for fan speculation, but nothing more. And frankly, there's a bit too much emphasis on such things sometimes. If Burton came back, onwards and upwards. The past is just that. The past. Burton likes creating new worlds from the ground up, and doesn't like going over old ground. A brand new adventure would excite me a whole lot more.

Well, I don't mean to redo the film or franchise as a whole. If it were free to Burton, it would be a brand new film on its own. Its just incomplete that he had to use sources he wanted to out of order. So no, this most definitely wont be old ground or to call anything to the 89 film's glory, just it would be his golden opportunity to finally be alone to make his incarnation of a BatMan vs Joker plot in general.

If Burton continued, he'd only get back lashed or parodied by the larger Nolanites and school boy idiots of today who destroyed Burton's imagination as to being of no different per movie (versus I don't know, say a casual theme or core character many movie makers take on for their films). And that all they can say is that Burton is the reason for mostly all the direction of the 89 film, most naysayers who can't enjoy or call legitimacy props to both films would ruin the third proposed film anyhow. Even Penguin was effected in a way, not by externals, such as the voice tone or talent playing him, but in that he was made more psychotic than he should have been. In essence, Penguin's original character coming within the sources is intertwined with TKJ in such a way that the character of the insanity is simply a different class to that of Joker's.

Tim Burton should start over to show what a real Tim Burton BatMan or Joker should be, un-effected by another direction or authority over a studio. Remember Burton's statement of going into the weird with a lighthearted approach, well with Sleepy Hollow and more, this stereotype is not the case. That Joker would be no less gruesome than some of Burton's more vicious films, maybe even top the Heath Joker in his actions and doings.

After this do I say he should tackle the other villains, such as Scarecrow.

I'd rather him redo the first film into his own intent, rather continuing. I'm wondering what he'd do with Joker, given the darkness involved in Penguin and his love for killing joke (which got shoved to being more in BMR than BM). I'd also want to see Jack do a very dark, near Shining esque role, but he's too old now!

Its odd seeing a movie in the making. Its almost as if some nut just ran out in a Spider Man suit and someone caught it at the right time by coincidence.

Whats also weird is that even if its being shot at night, they have this huge search light to make it appear as if its being shot in daylight. I'm wondering if it will end up being daylight here.

Its noticeable that his web cartridges ran dry here. I kind of liked the fact that the spider would give him this ability organically. Additional, I'm wondering how they are doing the wall climbing as well. If it turns out its the suit, then its to hell with the spider giving him anything other than the contortion ability. Then again, he could be just athletic in school too!

Wow, did I just make a pitch for a Nolan version of Spider Man. Though seriously, Nolan isn't restricted to gross realism. I think the elite realism in his bat mans come from the fact that bat man isn't really a superhero in that sense, so he took the realistic approach and made everyone else into bat man in their existence.

Still, even though I wont mind the web carts, I think I like the idea that the spider did the whole thing. I mean, it was seriously repetitive in the cartoons when he just ran out of web and then "OH NO!!! Commercial Break!", then he just so happens to simply throw in his reserve. Maybe it wont be like that, but it seriously hinders his ability and seeing the Raimi films having Spidey in full control makes it now a laugh that he needs to run the streets when he runs low. I mean, at least Spider Man 2 paid up to that with the moment he began losing his senses and abilities. We don't need it all the time.

Thinking about it makes me quiver, though. If the suit did do everything, then we'd just have a stupid trend emerging from Nolan's BM films. Yet again, Nolan has the ability to do it here more to character, since its half realistic in the Bat's universe too. With the treatment, it feels to be in the realm of the original universe thankfully.

After this, that treatment is just that, a treatment. A treatment is the "Story By" card and is when the story is in its basic idea stage. Who knows what it had been directed into being. I wouldn't worry about it, though its possible it is the final outcome. Like BatMan 89, its dependent on the additional authority coming from the producers and director's liking.

EDIT: By the looks of that treatment, it appears as though they will take the Nolan route on the bad guys. The Lizard with be the first villain, then the sequel will likely be about Green Goblin's appearance.

I think 1 and 2 have continuity on the fact that DC #28's story is about a monicle wearing guy who frames batman. This fits in with how 27 has a prelude to the Joker's origin and chemical plot.

Returns is issue #28 along with newer Penguin stories, just as 89 was #27 with newer Joker stories. I never see them as too different.

A third film may have to break that line and choose the previously mentioned villains, however.

I beleive a Burton ScareCrow would have been freaky and awsome and to hell with anyone who thinks his scarecrow should be ruined by the role of a top pop culture icon like 3 and 4 (Stern...no, even if I do like him and I say 3 and 4 because they were sloppy with what they could have chosen). I hope that Nolan wises up and sees the Docter in him is about over. I don't always want him half the stereotypical bussiness suit guy from Double Dragon, Street Fighter (Chun Li) or other.

Realy, I don't like the direction I think he may go in as ScarCrow needed to become a loner psychopath and start using the Streight Jacket for now on to mimick the original book's look.

He still could later and then it will be more like the comic, so I hope he was planning this all along. It needs to be that he became influenced by his own spray of his chemicals and starts thinking about using the image of the insane one to inflict fear. It looks near on par with the comic and fits right in with the Nolan universe of BatMan.

I saw this the other day, however, I had to go out to dinner afterwards. I missed 2 and forever.

I agree with this thread...and hi i'm back. I may have said it elsewhere, but just to recount things again and my extra input at the end.

I agree as I analyzed that with accuracy, it changed nothing on the story of the film.

In the first film, we only had Peter getting out of school, getting his own apartment, going into collage, as well as a splicing of the story and looks of Mary with Gwen. It really wasn't too off and they would only need 5 minutes of Mary Jane shots as another actress if that was Gwen and she died that night.

However, I agree that fanboys ruined it, like with having Gwen there, as now this simple merging is not so as if and we have an odd Felicia merged with Gwen situation now! She gives me the vibes and back story of Felicia. Gwen is shadow cat? Why not make it Felicia then? Ugh.

Moving on, Peter Parker as Venom stories always use a villain getting the best of our hero, with Venom nearly ending up making him kill the villain almost. We didn't need this as with Burton and Nolan's, they already have this apart of the story with Joker making Two-Face and BatMan or Ra's Al Ghul training BatMan. Here however, IT WAS correct and is not the same as complaining about something they did from the start. All we need is a few scenes cut out and Spidey Venom not saying anything in the subway area.

After that, it ruined the way it worked. Even if the original could have been an accident, it would be more a struggle and Parker is to blame thus still. Here however, it's like he pats SandMan on the back and whoops! After forgiving SandMan, he could then just as well forgive himself and even the other dude. The only thing that keeps him SpiderMan now is the magically appearing villains that now just show up ever since he's been SpiderMan. It sounds like he is the problem all along now, like they cause this to gain attention from him.

Lastly, the meteorite is a dead stereotype versus the space shuttle crashing into the ocean. Meteorite Man...WOOT! I mean the fan trailers that shown elements of other films that resemble it A WHOLE LOT were way more dynamic. Perhaps we can replace the crane scene with this, still getting him the key of the city. However, on a side note, this film makes it out to that spidey is so loved, it's not half/half and a gritty dark tone. It's just too happy that only JJJ hates SpiderMan, so, using the source here more so is good also. The Felicia and Mary Jane thing could have happened all the same even without the key of the city and doing the trademark kiss thing, though perhaps he saves her too like Jane instead.

You see, after that we se it would have been similar enough, we cannot say these arguments are not valid. I mean, I DOUBT HEAVILY that it's due to the amount of villains as there are only 1 with major time. Venom is only about 15 minutes of the ending until he dies. GG's son is only a single confrontation, who later teams up with him just after we forget completely about him. I say it's what they did with them and how they have only 15 minutes of the other Venom before he dies.

It's something else. I mean there ARE soooo many contradictions that they even forgot that Eddie was mentioned in number 1. So, instead of the scrawny little new guy, it should have been the dimmer football player sized brute that?s not seen for being too low in the production line until now, due to a promotion of course. I say it was due to Sam getting a chance to write it, but many miscommunications occurred between the previous writer's works.


EDIT: What i'm saying is that their new input (like even getting the key) is actually what ate up too much time for other stuff as without some of the unneeded stuff, we get more time for the love triangle/other.

wasn't vicki supposed to be dead by that point?

I read someone else's post alleging that Vicki was meant to be dead.  As far as I knew, the only person other person to die in Sam Hamm's original screenplay was Alexander Knox.

I seen that he said this from "Hollywood got the last laugh" article from here. I also havn't found this in the scripts I've seen, but it's half true though with the scene being altered from the shooting draft. What I think happened is that when Burton finally got on the set, in which a draft or two had already been writen, Burton desided on this and merely they went with the script all along.

I think that Burton only saw bits and peices of the newest drafts so far and then it was the producer's idea to use the script more, or it may have been wished by him to add it too. They had control with what they wanted the film to be more so as we read from an expert who graduated from a school of this subject.

Thanks for merging the topic. Anywho, it looks to recapture a great BatMan game whereas several in the past on ps2 failed miserably. I think the most recent good or decent BM games have been the BB game and Lego BM. This looks to top everything.

I love the BatMobile on this one A LOT. I think it's fit for a film adaptation. It's the one Burton's films should have used if they ever updated the looks on it at all.

The instore demo was horrible in GameStop, just joker throwing thugs at you. I'm glad they gave more to the dldable one.

Lastly, I would love to play Joker on the ps3 verison. He isn't available on 360, so I don't know. Perhaps as a dld, but I don't think he'll make it as dldable content, many ps3 exclusive content isn't. Maybe you should get a ps3 in october GGK. Not to push anything, but if you want to ever play as Joker enough, you could get the 80GB ps3. It's just $399 now.

PS3's price range is now well similar enough with the amount you need to apply on the 360 (universal laptop HDD and price for new 500GB ones from newegg at $60 vs 360's max space for over priced HDDs, wireless, lag free networks aside slowdlown in Home and BTW, Home is also fantastic now!) Also, it may RROD on you as many of my freinds have ones that do and youtube show alot of people having their fith 360 already! The fail rate is 17% off of happening half the time if you think about it.

This is of course if your not hard press for cash and can only afford an arcade 360. I'm only telling you this option if you plan to buy a normal one or an Elite, as they are similarly priced.

Has anyone played the Arkham Asylum Demo on PSN for PS3 yet?

It's a great game and looks fantastic.