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I'm what you call a Batman fan.  And just because of my last comment, it doesn't mean I think that devito was bad, its just that I don't blame them for giving devito a razzie.

This sites not supposed to take sides anyways, right.  If you like something, you ultimately think its better than another version, right?

I know that burton planned to do the "Big Four" from the Adam West series.  Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Riddler.  And they had marlan wayans for the third movie.  When it wasn't made, they dropped wayans.  Burton doesn't like the comic book robin.  But he's sort of obligated to do robin since he's doing the batman franchise, so he's going to do robin his way.  And the Batman Forever guys didn't even have Wayans in their radar.  So it must've come from burton.

He didn't like the concept of robin at all.  At least the comic robin.  If he was doing robin at all, he was doing it his way.  And to him, robin doesn't fight, he's batman's helper, his right arm.  Which isn't demeaning.   Its just that people are scared of batman because he's a bat man.  A character robin is supposed to help batman, hence being a mechanic and helping him.  I found this info on a fan site.  Burton probably thought robin would be best used in the third film, fresh to the viewers.

Well, I don't blame them.  Wheneve people think of batman returns (if you ask them on the street) they think of the freaky, weird, evil penguin who talks about adult material the whole movie.  And he's short.  From a movie perspective, unless they took him seriously as a villain, he's going to get a razzie.  And he did.  I guess the rest of the world sees burtons penguin different from loyal fans, huh?

I think he wasn't joking, but he didn't want to make a big deal out of it, so he laughed it off.  To say that he didn't mean it is sort of demeaning to him.  Because they didn't ask him to help them.  Of course their doing a different take on the joker.  But does that mean they can't get ideas from nicholson.  To even listen to him at least out of respect, to say the least that he was a good joker and he could give some very valuable tips to the new guy on the block.  They could use and throw away some of his tips, which is fine.  But its a respect thing.  Because the joker is hard to play, unlike some characters.  And it isn't like its a huge time jump or anything.  Asking adam west to help bale wouldn't work because of the time period.  But nicholson's joker isn't too far off todays society.  Plus, ledger even said that nicholson was a legend.  Maybe it was all little old christopher. 

I think Christian Bale now is bigger than keaton back then.  And by physique, I mean body mass.  Bigger usually means stronger. 

And as far as his fight skills, another person posted on this and I agree with him or her.  They said that all keaton did was respond to people fighting him.  He never really initiated the fight (except in the "I'm batman" scene where the people were scared to death with him.  With the people that weren't scared with him, he just responded to their attacks.  And thats not the batman I remember.  But like I said, burton made it work well within his movie.

And I think some facts can be conceded without having to make truth out of them, dont you? 

It depends.  If he was doing the whole, showing of batmans origins thing, then I think a little fore thought might have been in order.  But even then, batman movies are sort of easy as far as trilogys (as opposed to the matrix lets say).  You pick a different bad guy for each movie.  And throw a little info from the previous movie to provide continuation.  In the third movie he wanted robin and was preparing by getting marlan wayans.  Because robin is a whole new element in the batman movies.

What really needs to happen is to ask burton what he thinks the third batman movie should be.  Hypothetically of course.  Because I think he had a sound grounding on what he wanted to do, but I don't think he really had an image in mind.  Maybe he could make another one.  Thats not as far fetched as people think.  If he did, it would be the biggest deal in a long, long, long time.  I'm hoping and praying.

LMAO

He was too 'weird' huh?

Whoever walks into a Tim Burton movie expecting something mainstream?

Now I can't help but wonder why Johnny Depp didn't get the nomination for Edward Scissorhands?  

Okay, first off, even the best of directors make movies that are under par.  M. Night Shyamalan got nominated razzies for Lady in the Water.  So its not like any director (or actor- but you have to consider that the actor is doing what the director wants but......) is impervious to a razzie. 
    Second off, you're right.  Edward Scissorhands was weird.   The whole movie was supposed to be weird on an emotional artistry level.  Batman isn't.  Nobody thought the first batman was freakishly weird even though burton directed it.  I know he was given more reigns in the second one but....   Its alright for burton to make weird guys in a batman movie I guess, but the penguin was too weird not to make a razzie.  Because he's supposed to be a batman villain, no way around it. And to say that they didn't understand where burton was going with it, to say they were just looking at the image is sort of denial to me.  But I don't know everything.  What I'm saying is that a lot of people do stuff intentionally thats just a bad idea.  Batman fans probably don't see that because they either are in denial or they really understand something that the rest of the world just can't get.  Something that the artist and the loyal fans understand but the common fan probably won't dig deep enough to get.

But how The Penguin was presented in Batman Returns is superior for me.
That makes perfect sense for everybody else, right?

Okay, you like the penguin that batman returns gave you.  You're still using the penguin as the crux of your choice, whether it is the comic book penguin or the movie penguin is of no difference.  And the lighting and sound all revolve around the movie which is different because of a new villain or villains.

In a nutshell, devito got the razzie because he was too weird.  He wore that pajama outfit most of the time, he had pointed teeth, a black tongue, he lived in a sewer, he was abnormally obese his skin was bleached, and he would talk in grunts and eat fish.

Basically what a razzie means is is that they give it to a movie or actor who they think made a joke out of themselves.  They thought that of devito.  Whether you can blame them is another question.  Whether they were right is another question.  Neither of which I am willing to answer.

As far as nicholson's reason for doing Batman 89, he did it because he really liked what burton's idea was for batman and specifically the joker.  He didn't do it because it was going to be a big name movie.  Give Nicholson a little more credit than that.