A bulldozer is infront of the Batmobile.
Batman and Vicki Vale get out of the bulletproof and practically indestructible Batmobile for no good reason.
They then run down some random alley putting themselves and nearby civilians in danger.
Surely there is a navigation system in the car so he could sit and wait protected in the car's armor, then when the bulldozer is gone just continue on his way.
There was a side street right there, so why not turn that way?
Why not throw the car into reverse?
Why not turn on the armor and stay in the car?
I find the scene pointless. There's no logic to it - and it reeks of an excuse for an obligatory fight scene.
Must of have been clearing for the anniversary celebration!
Don't even get me started on moments more pointless than this, PLEASE!
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Sat, 6 Jun 2009, 03:28
Don't even get me started on moments more pointless than this, PLEASE!
I am addressing this scene, nothing more, nothing less.
So you admit the scene is pointless?
Can you offer any form of explanation to it?
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 6 Jun 2009, 03:29
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Sat, 6 Jun 2009, 03:28
Don't even get me started on moments more pointless than this, PLEASE!
I am addressing this scene, nothing more, nothing less.
So you admit the scene is pointless?
Can you offer any form of explanation to it?
Well, this moment is a little silly, but I was talking about scenes from other live action Batman films that were more pointless than this.
All of these are excellent questions and no, I cannot answer a single one of them. However, I can add one more: Why did it take an hour into the film before the Batmobile makes its debut?!
The only things off of the top of my head are the following:
Tim Burton had no idea how to shoot a car chase, let alone an action scene. At this point in his career his biggest chase scene was Pee-Wee Herman rescuing his bike on the Warner Bros. lot. He had to get them out of the car so that he could get comfortable as a director and could handle the material better. But then again, with the writer's strike going on, perhaps he had to improvise, and change the script. I do not know as I haven't read every single draft of the screenplay floating around out there. This also is where your second unit director steps in and shoots these scenes. A good second unit director can make a hack look like a magician. Not calling Tim Burton a hack, but you will hopefully get my point.
Perhaps Batman didn't trust his car to do the job, so he abandoned it and returned to the familiar territory that was the dark alley ways and the rooftops of Gotham City. However if this was the case, we, the audience, never learned this directly, but can only speculate as to why he would leave his car in the first place.
The other reason I can think of getting Batman and Vale out of the Batmobile is probably the silliest and dumbest reasons of all: despite Gotham City being a metropolis, there just was no room on the set to shoot a full blown out car chase. I can hear it now, "There goes the Monarch Theater. And Parliament. Again." (Brownie points if you get that reference!) as the Batmobile and the Joker's Goons in their yellow and purple cars go zooming by in the most un-inspired car chase ever commited to celluloid. Could this scene and a lot of other scenes be handled much better? Absolutely! Besides, if they hadn't exited the Batmobile, we wouldn't have learned that Vicky Vale weighs 108 pounds, or so she claims.
Quote from: Tarzan1941 on Sat, 6 Jun 2009, 03:40
All of these are excellent questions and no, I cannot answer a single one of them.
Neither can I.
I challenge anybody on here to do so, in a logical manner.
And I don't want discussion of any other silly moments from Batman films taking place here. I am talking about THIS one. Hence the thread about it.
Quote"There goes the Monarch Theater. And Parliament. Again." (Brownie points if you get that reference!)
National Lampoon's European Vacation!
Thought so. Nobody can give any explanation to this scene.
They either make side jokes or say they will post a different pointless moment later on. Just diversion tactics.
Sure it was always a little daft.
But the claustrophobia of Gotham always made that "nowhere to run" thing a little more plausible.
And assuming you rolled with it, Bats and Vicki leaving the batmobile introduced a whole element of vulnerability to that chase. They're suddenly in the open. In that city. After all, a car chase in an indestructable car is gonna be pretty boring :P
It ups the threat. I, for one, really liked it, and am willing to suspend my disbelief. :)
It actually makes a fair amount of sense.
*They're already causing enough of a commotion, and the Joker's goons don't give a damn about hurting innocent civillians. Better to draw them into an alley, away from the bystanders who, in true comic book fashion, would probably just stay in the way and get themselves hurt by gawking. Instead, they're left gawking at the Batmobile, not following them into the danger.
*Had things gone smoothly, they could have double-backed via the roofs to elude the Joker's thugs and get back to the car, without risking confrontation. Yes, Batman won, but he's no fool, he's skilled, but sh*t could have happened. If the thugs hadn't been lousy shots, they would have hit Vicki when they fired up at her. See? Big risk, luck that the bullets missed her. Avoiding confrontation at all would have been safer/more logical.
*The bulldozer probably wasn't going to move. As I said before: commotion. The guy running the thing is gonna be too tripped out by the Batmobile to get enough brainpower flowing to move in time for Batman and Vicki to safely get away. The guy running the bulldozer ain't just gonna cotinue as-usual while the Batman is right there.
*Bulletproof glass isn't totally invincible, it's just really damn resiliant. It's meant to keep you safe while you GET AWAY. Enough impacts, and it shatters. I'll bet that the shields cut off all oxygen, so you probably wouldn't want to be inside while it's sealed. An oxygen supply? Maybe. But enough to stay in the car while the Goons tried continuously to get in, with no way out because of all the commotion around? Bale's Batman would just blow sh*t up to get a clear path, I guess, but that ain't Keaton's Batman.
*Not to mention the fact that if they stay in the car, as sitting ducks, unable to go anywhere, the police would try to remove the Batmobile (in the novel, it's mentioned that during the alley fight, the Police brought in a Tow Truck to try to remove the shielded Batmobile), and it's better for the car to be lost by itself than to be towed away inside the car, thus unable to get away and being taken right to the police.
In the book, Batman, in a way, prettymuch sums all this up with three words. Right when they stop, Vicki starts to suggest something (which we're left to imagine): "Couldn't we...?"
Batman replies: "Too many people!"
There, that says it all. To try anything else would have put the gawkers around at risk. Not to mention make them sitting ducks, logically, for either the Joker's men or the police. Better to take the fight away from the populated areas, and that way, you have more options, you're not backed into a corner. The Batmobile clearly had no way out once they did stop, as there would have been traffic around it.
Logic, man. Logic!
The Doc's right.
How long do they sit there? Batman is a wanted vigilante - the cops would have done everything to bring him in (notice the tow-truck as the Batmobile drives away) and the Joker's goons would have done anything to kill him - even of that means killing civilians.
Batman made a decision to draw the fight away form the public and escape via rooftops. whether his grapling hook was able to lift 2 is another question, perhaps Batman made a mis-judgement; but that gives a more human dimension.
And as Doc says - he ain't Bale-Batman - he doesn't blow up sh*t in his way.
Solid arguments there, guys. You've washed away my doubts. I really do want to look at this scene in a positive light.
If he remained in the Batmobile any longer, the police would have surrounded him. He would've been blocked in with nowhere to go, except being towed back to Police HQ against his wishes. He couldn't have really done anything about it, either.
With the bulldozer blocking his path and Joker's goons fast approaching from behind, Batman would have had a feeling of wanting to be on the move and getting away at all times.
And with a surrounded Batmobile, Joker's goons would have fired upon it all night and day (eventually probably getting stronger weapons such as rocket launchers). And, like you say, the fight would have escalated into a police vs Joker goon war, with civilians in the cross fire.
That takes care of the remaining in the Batmobile scenario.
mmmmmmmm, because the police were behind them???
If it weren't for this, they would have gone right to the Bat Cave. If you count, this is about the second time Joker assults the public eye. The allyway fight is supposed to also be the ending of the assult on the museum in Joker's second appearance most likely, only with Joker's goons doing this rather the police. It is the film's version I would presume.
One thing is certain, without this, this part from the comic would not be there.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Sat, 6 Jun 2009, 09:27
It actually makes a fair amount of sense.
*They're already causing enough of a commotion, and the Joker's goons don't give a damn about hurting innocent civillians. Better to draw them into an alley, away from the bystanders who, in true comic book fashion, would probably just stay in the way and get themselves hurt by gawking. Instead, they're left gawking at the Batmobile, not following them into the danger.
*Had things gone smoothly, they could have double-backed via the roofs to elude the Joker's thugs and get back to the car, without risking confrontation. Yes, Batman won, but he's no fool, he's skilled, but sh*t could have happened. If the thugs hadn't been lousy shots, they would have hit Vicki when they fired up at her. See? Big risk, luck that the bullets missed her. Avoiding confrontation at all would have been safer/more logical.
*The bulldozer probably wasn't going to move. As I said before: commotion. The guy running the thing is gonna be too tripped out by the Batmobile to get enough brainpower flowing to move in time for Batman and Vicki to safely get away. The guy running the bulldozer ain't just gonna cotinue as-usual while the Batman is right there.
*Bulletproof glass isn't totally invincible, it's just really damn resiliant. It's meant to keep you safe while you GET AWAY. Enough impacts, and it shatters. I'll bet that the shields cut off all oxygen, so you probably wouldn't want to be inside while it's sealed. An oxygen supply? Maybe. But enough to stay in the car while the Goons tried continuously to get in, with no way out because of all the commotion around? Bale's Batman would just blow sh*t up to get a clear path, I guess, but that ain't Keaton's Batman.
*Not to mention the fact that if they stay in the car, as sitting ducks, unable to go anywhere, the police would try to remove the Batmobile (in the novel, it's mentioned that during the alley fight, the Police brought in a Tow Truck to try to remove the shielded Batmobile), and it's better for the car to be lost by itself than to be towed away inside the car, thus unable to get away and being taken right to the police.
In the book, Batman, in a way, prettymuch sums all this up with three words. Right when they stop, Vicki starts to suggest something (which we're left to imagine): "Couldn't we...?"
Batman replies: "Too many people!"
There, that says it all. To try anything else would have put the gawkers around at risk. Not to mention make them sitting ducks, logically, for either the Joker's men or the police. Better to take the fight away from the populated areas, and that way, you have more options, you're not backed into a corner. The Batmobile clearly had no way out once they did stop, as there would have been traffic around it.
Logic, man. Logic!
Brilliant Doc. Good to see you again.
WOW! This is one great argument here, though It was one of my favorite parts of the film!