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What are your thoughts on Tim Burton's canceled project, Superman Lives!?
Here are the details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_(film_series)#Superman_Lives

I never liked the idea, nor the way Superman looks. If anything, Superman movies were 100% Richard Donner material.

I don't see how it could've been any worse than Singerman.

That being said, I think we can all agree we should set our sights a bit higher when it comes to Superman films.

As Batman films should embrace the fantasy angle, Superman films should embrace the sci-fi angle.  There's nothing remotely "realistic" about those characters so why force either of them into a world to which they don't belong?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 20 Mar  2009, 21:02
I don't see how it could've been any worse than Singerman.

Frankly, Superman Returns, while it wasn't that great of a film, seems like gold after comparing it to these scripts, esp. the first one.

Burton's sensibilities don't line up with Superman's and he was always the wrong guy for the job, but at least when his movie tanked WB would likely have made a course correction and given us something more in line with the comics.

My fear is that some tool at WB thinks Singerman *DOES* line up with the comics and nothing could be further from the truth.  Singer's abortion of a film doesn't have the obvious flaws that Burton's thing would have had and that may work against comics fans, I fear.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 20 Mar  2009, 21:35
My fear is that some tool at WB thinks Singerman *DOES* line up with the comics and nothing could be further from the truth.  Singer's abortion of a film doesn't have the obvious flaws that Burton's thing would have had and that may work against comics fans, I fear.

Oh yes, now I definitely know how you feel (this also includes my concern for the Batman films).

Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Fri, 20 Mar  2009, 20:33
I never liked the idea, nor the way Superman looks. If anything, Superman movies were 100% Richard Donner material.

While i still would have liked to have seen it, I do agree with you Burton should stick with Batman.

I would have liked to seen the film and Cage's Clark. I think it would have been visually stunning but it likely (Most definitely) wouldn't reflect the man of steel. An S that turns into blades is badass, but not superman.

Burton's Superman would have rocked. Sure, it'd be his take on the character, but it would be equally enthralling. A lot better than that pathetic Singer movie.

^ But let's not get too out of character. Things like that give birth to films such as Catwoman.

Difference being quality. Catwoman is a absolute disgracefully made film. It is atrocious. I doubt Burton would have done anything on that level. We know at least that visually, it would have been stunning.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 21 Mar  2009, 01:49
Difference being quality. Catwoman is a absolute disgracefully made film. It is atrocious. I doubt Burton would have done anything on that level. We know at least that visually, it would have been stunning.

Agreed.

But what's it worth if the fundamentals of the character are wadded up and thrown out the window?  An awesome comic book film is less awesome if it doesn't get the spirit of the comics/characters down correctly.  Burton's Batman films work beautifully because they knew when to take directly from the comics and when to leave the comics out.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 22 Mar  2009, 01:50
But what's it worth if the fundamentals of the character are wadded up and thrown out the window?  An awesome comic book film is less awesome if it doesn't get the spirit of the comics/characters down correctly. 

That's why I mentioned Catwoman earlier (even though there's nothing awesome about it). They left out everything mandatory for that film. And had Superman Lives been produced, I'm sure it would've suffered the same fate (even though it might've had at least some elements from the comics/graphic novel).

On that much, I agree.  Burton's film would have had unspeakably awful buzz before it opened.  Given that it would've probably cost between $80-$100 mill to make (hardly chump change even by today's standards), it would've been an up hill battle for it to meet even B&R numbers, I think.

Plus, when you look back on it, was the 1990's really the decade for a Superman film?  People were largely happy with their President, the economy was coming along nicely, employment was fairly high, the dot com boom was just 'round the corner (as was the bust, to be fair), etc.  I don't think even a pitch-perfect Superman film would've gone over like gangbusters back then.

I think it would be a big mistake. Burton may understand Batman's universe, but he clearly don't understands Superman's world.

It would have been interesting, and I was very interested in what Cage would have done with the character, but overall the only thing I was disappointed about when it was cancelled was the fact that I woudn't be able to HEAR Danny Elfman's take on Superman.


I have problems with Singer's Superman film, lack of action, the stuper kid, but I liked it a lot better than Superman III or IV. plus I've always wanted Kevin Spacey to play Lex Luthor, and while some found him hammy I thought he was absolutely perfect in the role. I jst want some sort of super-powered  villain ( aside from Doomsday whom I don't care much for) for Superman to actually HIT numerous times!

I made this

http://www.youtube.com/v/7MmYq9uHL3g&hl=en&fs=1

Cool stuff, man. Loved the Elfman styled music. 8)

THAT'S WILLIAM'S MUSIC, BUB!
Sorry, Gotham Knight. It comes off more as, "You'll Beileve A Man Will Commit Suicide!"

Quote from: Darrell Kaiser on Thu, 26 Mar  2009, 22:16
THAT'S WILLIAM'S MUSIC, BUB!

Odd. I've never heard Williams compose pieces that had a dark vibe to them.

Quote from: Darrell Kaiser on Thu, 26 Mar  2009, 22:16
THAT'S WILLIAM'S MUSIC, BUB!
Sorry, Gotham Knight. It comes off more as, "You'll Beileve A Man Will Commit Suicide!"

:P

Gotham Knight, what's the name of that musical piece?

Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Thu, 26 Mar  2009, 23:06
Gotham Knight, what's the name of that musical piece?

"Return of the Green Crystal." It's Ken Thorne's adaptation for Supes II of Willaims bit for parts of the FOS scene in I.

Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Thu, 26 Mar  2009, 22:20Odd. I've never heard Williams compose pieces that had a dark vibe to them.

Um, whaa?  You never heard bits of the Temple of Doom score?  A substantial portion of the Star Wars prequels?  JFK?  Obviously that wasn't his work but he's been known to do it.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 27 Mar  2009, 00:16

Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Thu, 26 Mar  2009, 22:20Odd. I've never heard Williams compose pieces that had a dark vibe to them.

Um, whaa?  You never heard bits of the Temple of Doom score?  A substantial portion of the Star Wars prequels?  JFK?  Obviously that wasn't his work but he's been known to do it.

Funny you should mention that. ToD and JFK are my fave JW scores.

Cool trailer. 
Hope you don't mind me asking- What movie did you get the footage from?

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Fri, 27 Mar  2009, 02:53
Cool trailer. 
Hope you don't mind me asking- What movie did you get the footage from?

City of Angels (1998). Nick Cage movie where he, an angel, falls in love with a human woman.

Interesting trailer Gotham Knight,  for some reason trailers have an insane effect on how people will judge a movie.  Whether it is positive or negative. I've seen trailers that were done very poorly and people think, oh! this is gonna be a flop and the movie turns out to be an epic, and then their are trailers that are done in epic scale and people say that's going to be awesome but then the movie turns out to be a letdown.

This suggestion probably does not belong on this forum, but anyway here it goes.  I think it would be cool to see a trailer of Batman (1989) utilizing the music from the Godfather films by composer Nino Rota and Carmine Coppolla and have the trailer feel like the Godfather.  I actually tried doing this with a vhs recording of Batman that I had edited and I mixed it with pieces of music from the Godfather films and to my amazement the music fit perfectly. I mainly concentrated on the 40's/mafia aspect of Batman.  The music gratified the film to a whole new level.  The reason why I had attempted this was because alot of people were suggesting that nolans TDK film was  an epic like the Godfather, which I know is not true, and then I thought to myself the only Batman film that can truely capture the same spirit and tone of the Godfather films  is Tim Burton's Batman 1989 picture if it was done right.  Anyway, that is my suggestion.

Excellent suggestion, I actually watched quite a few fan-made trailers for Batman '89 and some of the music fits quite well. Therefore this is a shout-out to those editing experts on batmanmovieonline to try to get this done. It will be great as an addition to the 20th Anniversary celebrations in June, even before that.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 27 Mar  2009, 15:22

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Fri, 27 Mar  2009, 02:53
Cool trailer. 
Hope you don't mind me asking- What movie did you get the footage from?

City of Angels (1998). Nick Cage movie where he, an angel, falls in love with a human woman.

I had a feeling that was the one.  Thanks.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 27 Mar  2009, 00:44

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 27 Mar  2009, 00:16

Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Thu, 26 Mar  2009, 22:20Odd. I've never heard Williams compose pieces that had a dark vibe to them.

Um, whaa?  You never heard bits of the Temple of Doom score?  A substantial portion of the Star Wars prequels?  JFK?  Obviously that wasn't his work but he's been known to do it.

Funny you should mention that. ToD and JFK are my fave JW scores.

Another really cool DARK Williams score is for the Fury. The main title is SO haunting.

Bumping this one up due to this picture floating around in the past day or two.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg19.imageshack.us%2Fimg19%2F7452%2Fcageassupes.jpg&hash=16808d0d2cf709fc3a07c382b379424eb7ff8b4a)

There's a new Kickstarter campaign to fund an ambitious documentary about this film.


You can read more about it here:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1270411036/the-death-of-superman-lives-what-happened

That trailer made me wish I could actually contribute to the funding of the Kickstarter campaign. As for that picture of Cage, it's funny how in B&W it reminds me a lot fo the current Empire MOS cover. The costume is also surprisingly a lot more traditional than I expected. The Schumacher like rubber muscles look silly in this context, but I do like that S-Shield quite a bit.

^ It's funny that a lot of concept art pics out there have some really outlandish designs but the Cage test-fittings (or whatever these things are) tend to be variations on a relatively traditional Superman costume. I wonder that the director of that documentary may shoot for an angle of "Burton would've done more of a traditional Superman movie than you may think" as I think he may be behind this newest leaked pic.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 30 Jan  2013, 08:01
^ It's funny that a lot of concept art pics out there have some really outlandish designs but the Cage test-fittings (or whatever these things are) tend to be variations on a relatively traditional Superman costume. I wonder that the director of that documentary may shoot for an angle of "Burton would've done more of a traditional Superman movie than you may think" as I think he may be behind this newest leaked pic.

That's actually the truth. I forget where I found it out, but actually the film that almost went into production had a script that did away with all that Kevin Smith-era silliness and was actually a straightforward Superman movie with some darker themes/elements. Knowing Tim, it actually would have been exceptional. The version that Kevin Smith worked on was actually before Tim got involved. The Superman costume you're seeing in the B&W photos was actually the traditional colors-albiet darker a'la Superman III's evil Supes. And he would have been wearing it prior to getting killed by Doomsday in the film. Upon returning, he would be wearing the see-through glowing veiny suit, which, like the actual comics, was his 'resurrection' suit that helped sustain his life.

And Kevin Spacey as Lex? That was Tim's casting choice.

I really want to see this documentary get made, especially the scene recreation stuff. This film is intriguing.

Interesting, I too hope it gets made.

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 30 Jan  2013, 08:06
And Kevin Spacey as Lex? That was Tim's casting choice.

Would have been interesting to see Spacey portraying Lex without having to adhere to the script of the Donnerverse love letter.

After seeing these new pictures and skimming through Strick's script (not perfect, but very interesting), I am REALLY sad this wasn't made.

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 31 Jan  2013, 03:27

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 30 Jan  2013, 08:06And Kevin Spacey as Lex? That was Tim's casting choice.

Would have been interesting to see Spacey portraying Lex without having to adhere to the script of the Donnerverse love letter.

I'm not convinced that it would've made much of a difference with his performance, which I never thought was very Hackmany to begin with.

Kevin Spacey was one of the best things about Superman Returns for me. He had the menace and the humor and felt like a continuation of Hackman but without playing it like Hackman (as colorsblend stated previously). If you want to talk about actors stuck playing roles like the originals, lets discuss Routh ;D.

I was expecting alot more out of the performance from Kevin Spacey, but was severely disappointed with the end result. And this is coming from someone who went in thinking, if anything, Spacey would be the saving grace of the film. Well, his performance didn't exactly get there, and to a large extent, was pretty forgettable overall due to having to adhere to elements of Hackman's Lex, as well as delivering some hammy lines that I think would have been more enjoyable coming from Hackman than Spacey. Especially considering I feel Hackman is much more talented on the comedic front than Spacey ever could hope to be. And that was a major flaw in the said performance as well.

With Routh, I wouldn't even say he played it like Reeve. That's an insult to Reeve's portrayal. It was NEVER that wooden!!!

Routh wasn't cast to play Superman/ Clark, he was cast because he looked and sounded similar to Reeve. Because he didn't have a lot of acting experience at the time, and because he was put into this box to begin with, it came across wooden. I would like to see what he would do with it now after he's had a few more films under his belt.

And I still disagree about Spacey, I loved him in the role. To each his own.

Routh has worked with some big name directors (Bryan Singer, Kevin Smith, Edgar Wright) as well as several TV directors. Some of these directors have pulled good performances out of people who aren't even actors by trade to begin with. In everything Blandon does, he comes across wooden and awkward. Sooner or later, you have to conclude that the actor, not the director, is the problem. And Routh is the problem.

Quote from: gordonblu on Tue,  5 Feb  2013, 15:47
Routh wasn't cast to play Superman/ Clark, he was cast because he looked and sounded similar to Reeve. Because he didn't have a lot of acting experience at the time, and because he was put into this box to begin with, it came across wooden. I would like to see what he would do with it now after he's had a few more films under his belt.

See, I didn't think neither the first time I saw a picture of Routh shortly after being announced as being cast, nor when the laughable first official image of him in the suit, that he resembled Chris Reeve. I'm aware that's what Singer probably had in mind, and was ultimately aiming for considering the storyline he had put in place, but again, I just never saw it.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1092.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi416%2Fjokertdk%2FVarious%2520Images%2Fsuper0_zps5b467e62.jpg&hash=a0b8531fd950f0eca5d8d7239c6b0a75d5de6b10)


If anything, Brando looks more like Chris Noth's younger brother than he does Reeve's.

QuoteAnd I still disagree about Spacey, I loved him in the role. To each his own.

That's cool. To me, Spacey as Lex is just one of those things that will fall into that category of what COULD have been provided a better script and direction (Similar to Tommy Lee Jones as Harvey Dent/Two-Face in '95) that, in this particular case, wasn't so smitten with what was already previously established.

Jon Schnepp's managed to get Tim Burton for his documentary!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1270411036/the-death-of-superman-lives-what-happened/posts

He's also interviewed Wesley Strick, Steve Johnson and Kevin Smith. Now if he can just land an interview with Nicolas Cage...

Wow!  This sounds awesome Silver Nemesis.  I love these 'what if' type documentaries.  Have you read David Hughes' 'The Greatest Sci-Fi Movies Never Made' by any chance?

I haven't, but it sounds like the sort of thing I'd enjoy reading. Presumably it covers near misses like Jodorowsky's Dune adaptation?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 23 Mar  2014, 20:08
I haven't, but it sounds like the sort of thing I'd enjoy reading. Presumably it covers near misses like Jodorowsky's Dune adaptation?

The copy of the book I possess, published in 2001, covers the following unmade films: "The Star's of My Destination", "Childhood's End" based on an Arthur C. Clarke book, "Star Trek: Planet of the Titans", "Night Skies" (which I'd like to see, but am in some ways am pleased was never made because it means we got the 'sweet' version of the story instead, "E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial"), "The Tourist", various versions of "Dune" including the Jodorowsky one, "Ronnie Rocket" and "One Saliva Bubble" (both unrealised David Lynch projects), various unmade versions of "Alien" sequels, Cameron's "Spider-Man" (and curiously enough, "Terminator 3" and "Avatar"), Ridley Scott's "I Am Legend", earlier proposed versions of "Watchmen" and "Fantastic Four", "Silver Surfer", "Superman Lives" (of course), a "The Six Million Dollar Man" movie, earlier proposed versions of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" and "Thunderbirds" movie, "Dead Star" (the original version of what became the barely seen "Supernova") and Richard Stanley's original version of the "Island of Dr. Moreau".

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 23 Mar  2014, 14:32
Jon Schnepp's managed to get Tim Burton for his documentary!

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/779/705/ffbe7a10efcb2688f9f451bb09f5fd1a_large.JPG?1395419029)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1270411036/the-death-of-superman-lives-what-happened/posts

He's also interviewed Wesley Strick, Steve Johnson and Kevin Smith. Now if he can just land an interview with Nicolas Cage...

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1092.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi416%2Fjokertdk%2FABucket%2520Folder%25202%2F5843_zps6ba98561.gif&hash=5f1d3004ac1e628406edb2511c7f366c2da7881c) (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/jokertdk/media/ABucket%20Folder%202/5843_zps6ba98561.gif.html)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt9fxWq5qg0

And another documentary I am anxiously awaiting to check out.

I didnt think Spacey was bad as Lex Luthor, he certainly did better than Bosworth or Routh but I was let down. He's had so many performances he could channel into Lex Luthor including House of Cards, the usual suspects, and even his cameo in Austin powers 3. Jack Nicholson was so great as the Joker because he was so erratic and all over the board, you never knew what he was going to do next. Spacey certainly had the acting range to do that but played the character the same for the entire film. Great villains either make the audience hate them or are devilishly entertaining and Spacey did neither.


I like that 16 years later, this project is getting popular again.

FLASHBACK 1998

Wizard Magazine article on "Superman Lives".

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9NaFrJacAAlMDQ?format=jpg&name=large)

Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 25 Oct  2023, 16:10FLASHBACK 1998

Wizard Magazine article on "Superman Lives".

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9NaFrJacAAlMDQ?format=jpg&name=large)

Akiva Goldsman was working on the script? I know he worked on a cancelled Batman vs. Superman movie, but I don't remember hearing his name connected with Superman Lives before. And this was 1998, after the studio had seen the negative response to his Batman & Robin script.

1½ out of 5 seems a bit harsh for Superman III. All the criticisms mentioned are fair, but it has its merits too. The special effects and production values are high quality, Reeve and O'Toole have natural chemistry and both deliver good performances, the synthetic kryptonite storyline – adapted from the red kryptonite plot in 'The Splitting of Superboy' (Adventure Comics V1 #255, December 1958) – is compelling, and the set pieces involving the chemical factory fire and junk yard fight are well staged. I'd give it 2½ out of 5.

I agree. I love Bronze Age Superman and it's very easy to find stories where a guest star somewhat takes centerstage and drives the narrative along just like Gus Gorman does in Superman III.

I can understand if some of the silly humor with Richard Pryor isn't too everyone's taste. But there's just no denying that Superman III owes a LOT back to the source material. I find the movie very enjoyable and very reminiscent of the late Seventies/early Eighties Bronze Age comics that inspired it.

The Daredevil comics had a number of celebrity guests over the years too, including Johnny Carson, Uri Geller and... Lois Lane? From Daredevil Vol 1 #353 (June 1996).


This issue was written by Karl Kesel, who also penned numerous issues of the Superman and Superboy comics.

Iirc, the Kesel run was primarily illustrated by Cary Nord. Nord was interesting because his work was either rock solid or so amateurish that you wondered if a kindergartener drew it.

I enjoy aspects of the Kesel run. But the art wasn't always a high watermark for the title, that's for sure.

Wizard Magazine's "Superman Lives" article from the 1998 Superman Special (including some material on Superman TAS as well).

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIJ_ncXaYAAY9aR?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIJ_ncYbEAAYJob?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIJ_ncVaQAAQN4d?format=jpg&name=large)

In 1999, Wizard Magazine gave Kevin Smith the opportunity to cast his "Superman Lives" script for publication. Not surprisingly, Smith cheekily casts his friends, and actors he previously worked with for the film, but some of his picks are interesting to think about. Especially for the Peters mandated polar bears.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNvRWi_aMAA9O7U?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNvSXaJaYAALytX?format=jpg&name=large)

1999 Report on where things stood with "Superman Lives" at the time.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUkAn84aAAA3Jcd?format=jpg&name=large)