Eckhart seems like maybe Chris changed his mind about Harvey being dead or alive check this out!
http://www.mtv.com/videos/movies/331069/could-harvey-dent-be-alive.jhtml
He'll be back. Thanks DV! ;)
Sure thing, glad to spread the info, from the way Aaron is hiding the answer, it really seems like maybe they decided to bring back 'ol Harvey Two-Face afterall!
Quote from: DarkVengeance on Mon, 12 Jan 2009, 19:42
Sure thing, glad to spread the info, from the way Aaron is hiding the answer, it really seems like maybe they decided to bring back 'ol Harvey Two-Face afterall!
Yeah, I think Eckhart should rule out working for the CIA!
Nolan probably reconsidered Dent being dead because of Ledgers death. If Ledger were still alive, Dent would probably remain dead but we still have to wait and see.
I sure as f*** hope so. Harvey in this film was a performance I loved maybe even more than the Joker, just because prior to Eckhardt, we never had a portrayal even CLOSE to right for Two Face, at least Ledger carried on the great tradition of great Jokers.
In my opinion this makes sense because Dent's death was never finalized for the audience. If you ask me, simply showing a half second shot of a memorial doesn't finalize it.
It would be AMAZING if Harvey back in Batman 3. But... what about Batman's sacrifice? If Harvey is alive, the people of Gotham would loose hope in the good men, and Batman's sacrifice would make no sense.
In my opinion, Harvey's returns is unecessary. It would be great to have Two-Face in Batman 3, but it would make no sense to Batman's sacrifice. ;)
There couldn't be too much hope left in Gotham.
2 DA's killed in a year.
2 major terrorist campaigns carried out in a year.
2 high ranking public officials killed.
If those are washed out of the script it would be an awful shame.
Chances are, Gordon and Batman would go to great lengths to keep from Gotham the fact that this new villain Two Face is formally Harvey Dent. Two Face isn't like the Joker, he isn't going to appear on TV and make threats. There's a big chance that he he could operate and go unseen in Gotham, kind of like a Batman type prescence.
Can you guys tell me (cause I really don't know) going from what is in the comics is there much more they can do with the character of Two-Face?
Or have they gone as far as they can?
It could just be a cameo role - locked up in Arkham.
I think there is plenty more they could do with him in the next film, but thats just me. I was personally so upset when I found out 3 months before seeing TDK that TF was going to die at the end, but I ended up being ok with it and seeing what it meant to the story arc of the film and the character of Harvey Dent, and what challenges it left open for Batman to face after the events of the film.
But if there is a chance we can have TF back im cool with a small change in themes, just so we can have him back, I feel like that was only the start of destruction that Two-Face could cause in Gotham, but of course to live he might need a little bit of help, considering with his face like that in real life with burns that serious you wouldnt live long and thats for sure!
Quote from: raleagh on Tue, 13 Jan 2009, 00:19
Can you guys tell me (cause I really don't know) going from what is in the comics is there much more they can do with the character of Two-Face?
Or have they gone as far as they can?
It could just be a cameo role - locked up in Arkham.
There's more they COULD do... I personally don't think, however, that it could go too far beyond a lot of the basic themes already explored in TDK. Two Face was anything but masterfully handled in TDK but I don't think there's much juice to be had from a film where he commits crimes based upon the number 2.
I don't know if anyone on here has ever read the Two-Face GN called Batman: Jekyll & Hyde, but it is really, really dark and twisted. I think it would be a good story for the production team to play off of for the next film. It's a story that with a little twist, could plausibly involve Scarecrow also.
Interesting. He might be toying with the fans after getting so sick of the question though. I would like him to appear, but I don't really mind if the character if alive though. We could have him in flashback form, showing the people he killed.
The only thing I don't like with Dent's/TF's story was his relationship w/ Rachel. He should've been married to Gilda b/c it would've added more drama to have Gilda react to Harvey's transformation & murders. Besides, Rachel can't seem to choose if she wants to be w/ Bruce or Dent. What a ****! :P
Quote from: The Batman Returns on Sat, 17 Jan 2009, 15:05
The only thing I don't like with Dent's/TF's story was his relationship w/ Rachel. He should've been married to Gilda b/c it would've added more drama to have Gilda react to Harvey's transformation & murders. Besides, Rachel can't seem to choose if she wants to be w/ Bruce or Dent. What a ****! :P
Thats nowhere near the definition of a **** my friend, maybe thats just your personal experiences with women, flashing before your eyes before posting.
Im glad they used Rachel the way they did, it was perfect, again Ill state that it fits with the story arch for all the characters, sometimes I wonder if some of you actually understand what a story or character arch is.
The Dark Knight was about Harvey's fall from grace; AND Batman's fall from grace. If so, the point of the next film, in my opinion, would be redemption. How better for Batman to gain redemtpion in the eyes of the city than for Harvey(who I never thought was dead) to gain redemption for what he really did. It could almost be like Harry in Spider-Man 3 only handled WAAAY better.
I know certain people have stated that A: it's in the script that he's dead; and B: There was a funeral.
A: Scripts are blueprints, not facts. Things change. What about Indy shooting the swordsman in "Raiders"? That wasn't in the script. It was decided to change the scene because Harrison Ford wasn't feeling well. If you followed the script for Batman(89), Alexander Knox would have died at the end.
B: It is already etsablished in the film that Batman and Gordon play things and I quote "Close to the Vest". If anything it was a closed coffin service, and anything could have been in there to simulate a bodies' weight. I think Gordon spirited him away, possibly to Arkham.
As for what his role could be in the sequel, a friend of mine and I thought of this scenario; Harvey obviously escapes, stating that he tried to achieve order in Gotham Gordon's way, now he means to achieve it through shadier means, maybe even getting the remaining mob players to work for him. And of course, borrowing a little from Batman Forever(but better!) trying to snuff the Bat for the death of Rachel. The coin judged Batman guilty, and so far Batman escaped his sentence. Harv would want to finish the job.
We'll know for sure when the next film comes out, but I just don't see Nolan wasting Two-face on the finale of the previous film. It felt more like an appetizer for the character than the main course.
Quote from: gordonblu on Mon, 16 Feb 2009, 00:10
We'll know for sure when the next film comes out, but I just don't see Nolan wasting Two-face on the finale of the previous film. It felt more like an appetizer for the character than the main course.
Originally, I believed that Two-Face survived that fall. I didn't want to see him wasted in such a way. But now, I don't see where he could fit into the sequel. What else is there for him to do? Get his revenge on Batman for pushing him? Doesn't sound like a good idea. Plus, he wanted to avenge the death of Rachel Dawes, who I thought was the weak link of both films (I also personally disliked her).
I thought Aaron Eckhart did an awesome job at portraying Harvey Dent/Two-Face, & I wanted to see him return, but now I'm starting to agree w/ some of the other members about the sequel having him appear in a flashback form (I'd also like to see him in Arkham if anything). Like I said before, what else is there for him to do in the sequel?
[
There is something i've been waiting to see on film that is mainly important only for me, and that is
I WANNA SEE A KNOCK-DOWN DRAG-OUT BLOODY KNUCKLED FIST FIGHT BETWEEN BATMAN AND TWO-FACE!!!!!
Did I mention I love fight scenes?
Seriously, I know Two-Face is a psychological character and I want that in the film too, but I've always felt Two-Face is also a very physical character, and is in many ways Batman's equal when it comes to fighting. I felt like they hinted at it, or I filtered it through my own preferences, when Harvey socked the guy in the courtroom prompting Gordon's line about "a hell of a right cross". But they won't let him use that right cross on Batman? Granted, Harvey doesn't have the same training that Bruce had in Batman Begins, and logically it might not work, but emotionally and tonaly it just feels right to me.
Also, Two-Face wouldn't be after Batman for pushing him, Batman told him to judge the actions of the three of them, Batman, Gordon, and Harvey, and the coin judged Batman guilty. Two-Face has to fulfill it's decision. But Batman is still alive, so it's not fulfilled, hence Two-Face needing to finish the job.
Two-Face is my favorite of all Batman villains and I'm not satisfied with his treatment in live action. This last one was closer, but still didn't feel like he was really given his due
Quote from: DarkVengeance on Sun, 18 Jan 2009, 19:32Ill state that it fits with the story arch for all the characters, sometimes I wonder if some of you actually understand what a story or character arch is.
Not sure how I missed this before. I can't speak for everyone else but I at least know how to spell it.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 16 Feb 2009, 04:35
Quote from: DarkVengeance on Sun, 18 Jan 2009, 19:32Ill state that it fits with the story arch for all the characters, sometimes I wonder if some of you actually understand what a story or character arch is.
Not sure how I missed this before. I can't speak for everyone else but I at least know how to spell it.
Eh... I don't know where he was trying to go w/ that statement.
OHHH YEAHHH! ;D
Hey folks, newbie here and am having a great time reading the posts on this board. Seems like you guys really know your Bats and I'm looking forward to conversing with you all in the future. Just wanted to add a thought here.
Could a potential Two-Face return for Batman 3 be in the form of flashbacks? You know, to show us the other people ke killed besides Wertz, Maroni's driver and *possibly* Maroni himself? I may need to watch the movie again, but I was never clear on who the other 2 were out of the 5 dead Gordon mentioned. Or, maybe he'll appear in dreams as Batman/Wayne is carrying heavy guilt for doing what he had to do to save the boy.
Just a thought.
Quote from: Matuatay on Sun, 31 May 2009, 18:04
Hey folks, newbie here and am having a great time reading the posts on this board. Seems like you guys really know your Bats and I'm looking forward to conversing with you all in the future. Just wanted to add a thought here.
Welcome, Matuatay. :)
Quote from: Matuatay on Sun, 31 May 2009, 18:04
Could a potential Two-Face return for Batman 3 be in the form of flashbacks? You know, to show us the other people ke killed besides Wertz, Maroni's driver and *possibly* Maroni himself? I may need to watch the movie again, but I was never clear on who the other 2 were out of the 5 dead Gordon mentioned. Or, maybe he'll appear in dreams as Batman/Wayne is carrying heavy guilt for doing what he had to do to save the boy.
Just a thought.
Ah, I definitely agree with you about Two-Face flashbacks. His "end" came too soon IMO, & since I found TDK's characterization of Dent/T-F to be great, I think it'd be best to have him in Arkham, as well, as he'd be sort of misplaced if he were to continue his vengeance throughout the whole film. It would be such a wasted opportunity if it's decided to not give him at least a role of some sort in the next film.
Welcome man! ;D
Well, I think this idea of flashbacks is really good, specially if B3 show Batman's redemption.
Quote from: GuedesGothamKnight on Sun, 31 May 2009, 18:28
Well, I think this idea of flashbacks is really good, specially if B3 show Batman's redemption.
True. I would like to see Dent appear in flashback form & deliver his "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" line when Batman is in a time of doubt.
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Sun, 31 May 2009, 18:38
Quote from: GuedesGothamKnight on Sun, 31 May 2009, 18:28
Well, I think this idea of flashbacks is really good, specially if B3 show Batman's redemption.
True. I would like to see Dent appear in flashback form & deliver his "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" line when Batman is in a time of doubt.
Yeah, it would be very interesting.
Thanks for the welcome, Dark Knight Detective! :D
I'm sort of grasping at straws here because, even though I can accept he's dead (falls from 3+ stories without body armor can do that to ya) I really want to see more. Two-Face became my favorite Bat-villain the minute I saw him leave his hospital room in B:TAS and I don't think I'll ever get enough! I'm even a big enough sucker to have found something to like about Two-Face in 'Forever'. Granted, that one thing being his costumes (the zebra stripe one being my fave). And personally I think Tommy Lee Jones was more than equipped as an actor to have given us a very dark, brooding Two-Face, I attribute what we ended up with more to bad direction, studio pencil pusher interference, and lack of research of *good* source material.
I think another cool option could be to have Two-Face show up in Part 3 as Scarecrow-induced hallucinations. They could really do some neat (and gruesome) effects with his face in a fear toxin trip. It gives Scarecrow (if he comes back) some great ammo to cripple Batman with and feeds on Batman's guilt for having to kill him.
Quote from: Matuatay on Sun, 31 May 2009, 18:53
Thanks for the welcome, Dark Knight Detective! :D
Your welcome. :)
Quote from: Matuatay on Sun, 31 May 2009, 18:53
I'm sort of grasping at straws here because, even though I can accept he's dead (falls from 3+ stories without body armor can do that to ya) I really want to see more. Two-Face became my favorite Bat-villain the minute I saw him leave his hospital room in B:TAS and I don't think I'll ever get enough! I'm even a big enough sucker to have found something to like about Two-Face in 'Forever'. Granted, that one thing being his costumes (the zebra stripe one being my fave). And personally I think Tommy Lee Jones was more than equipped as an actor to have given us a very dark, brooding Two-Face, I attribute what we ended up with more to bad direction, studio pencil pusher interference, and lack of research of *good* source material.
Have you been reading my mind? :D
Quote from: Matuatay on Sun, 31 May 2009, 18:53
I think another cool option could be to have Two-Face show up in Part 3 as Scarecrow-induced hallucinations. They could really do some neat (and gruesome) effects with his face in a fear toxin trip. It gives Scarecrow (if he comes back) some great ammo to cripple Batman with and feeds on Batman's guilt for having to kill him.
Well, if Scarecrow is used, I want to see him in his comic book outfit & play a huge role in the film. Also, Batman could have hallucinations of the night his parents were killed by Joe Chill, making him feel guilty for their deaths.
If Two-Face comes back, it will almost certainly be in the form of flashbacks. I have no interest in seeing the character come back as an alive and active threat, because that would completely kill the conclusion of The Dark Knight IMO. Two-Face needed to die for his story to work in that film, and he should remain dead.
Quote from: zDBZ on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, 00:36
If Two-Face comes back, it will almost certainly be in the form of flashbacks. I have no interest in seeing the character come back as an alive and active threat, because that would completely kill the conclusion of The Dark Knight IMO. Two-Face needed to die for his story to work in that film, and he should remain dead.
Entirely agreed.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, 02:23
Quote from: zDBZ on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, 00:36
If Two-Face comes back, it will almost certainly be in the form of flashbacks. I have no interest in seeing the character come back as an alive and active threat, because that would completely kill the conclusion of The Dark Knight IMO. Two-Face needed to die for his story to work in that film, and he should remain dead.
Entirely agreed.
Same here.
Quote from: Batnar on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, 03:16
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, 02:23
Quote from: zDBZ on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, 00:36
If Two-Face comes back, it will almost certainly be in the form of flashbacks. I have no interest in seeing the character come back as an alive and active threat, because that would completely kill the conclusion of The Dark Knight IMO. Two-Face needed to die for his story to work in that film, and he should remain dead.
Entirely agreed.
Same here.
I guess it's better than not having him play a role at all....
What if the ending of The Dark Knight isn't what it seems, and things change in the new film? Even so, with the ending, Harvey doesn't have to be dead for the side-plot of Batman being the bad guy to work. Maybe they will try some of the really twisted, dark Two-Face stories. Maybe restore his face and then have him snap again and scar it himself.
I could also totally just envision a shot of Harvey from the back and then him turning around in a cell in Arkham or something.
Quote from: Batmoney on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, 05:00
What if the ending of The Dark Knight isn't what it seems, and things change in the new film? Even so, with the ending, Harvey doesn't have to be dead for the side-plot of Batman being the bad guy to work. Maybe they will try some of the really twisted, dark Two-Face stories. Maybe restore his face and then have him snap again and scar it himself.
I could also totally just envision a shot of Harvey from the back and then him turning around in a cell in Arkham or something.
Yep, I totally agree.
I don't.
Quote from: Batmoney on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, 05:00
What if the ending of The Dark Knight isn't what it seems, and things change in the new film? Even so, with the ending, Harvey doesn't have to be dead for the side-plot of Batman being the bad guy to work. Maybe they will try some of the really twisted, dark Two-Face stories. Maybe restore his face and then have him snap again and scar it himself.
I could also totally just envision a shot of Harvey from the back and then him turning around in a cell in Arkham or something.
Except that the script for
The Dark Knight explicitly states that Harvey dies from that fall.
If he were to somehow survive and return in the third film, then that film would have to spend a good chunk of time explaining how he survived and what Gordon and Batman did to cover up what happened, at the expense of the story for that particular movie.
Two-Face is in my Top 3 as far as Batman villains go, and I'd love to see him on film again. But in this series, it needs to be in the form of flashbacks to avoid ruining the arc that Harvey went through in
The Dark Knight.
This is why i don't read comics nor follow movie plots ever again. :( It's all crap. Writers that can't make up their minds. And or succumb to the laws of money making and not the original concept to begin with. Makes it even more fake to allow my emotions to tap in respectfully and follow. Hence why I totally slept through TDK after 10 minutes into it, the second time i went to see it with friends.
I'm currently writing a story for a future official release. If a character dies in my book, you can sure bet he wont be coming back. DEAD IS DEAD. If they don't want to kill a character off, they shouldn't do it in the first place. That's why when someone dies, even in an obvious body dismembering explosion, I can't help but think... maybe he/she survived it?? lol... That's crap.
This is what I call "the boy who cried wolf syndrome". These guys keep screwing with us with twists and turns, and finally, I no longer care if Batman himself dies. He'll be back in some form. So there's really no danger element anymore. Point a gun at a person's head, who cares?! He/she will be back in part 2 anyways or perhaps part 3.
blagh... :P
If Harvey comes back, TDK is spoiled for me.
Part of what made the ending so strong in TDK, was Harvey's death.
...Sides... if he didn't die from that fall, surely his bacteria infested half of his face should do him in within a couple of days of hardcore infection. I mean seriously... lol.
Harvey was handled all wrong anyway he was introduced,turned and killed far too fast it should have been a slow burn to insanity after his accident not wakingup one day and being persuaded by a serial killer that it was gotham/batman/gordons fault which made no real sense to me.
Harvey's death was so crucial to the story, it would be kinda ruined if he came back for a third, I highly doubt he will even though in some ways I would love to see him again.
Quote from: DarkVengeance on Fri, 5 Jun 2009, 15:18
Harvey's death was so crucial to the story
was it though? or could harvey's death be two-face's birth. either way, harvey didn't die for something...Batman took the blame for harvey's actions, he probably would have done that even if harvey had lived (cause harvey would now be clinically insane and locked up in arkham)