anyone ever hear any concrete reason as to why no new Keaton presence on the SE dvds? - only shows his old Returns interviews - disappointing!
also i know i saw somewhere where the "where does he get those wonderful toys?" line is followed up by joker saying "well go and ask him!" as he yells at the goons to give chase - of course it's not in the movie but i always thought that was a great 2nd part to that line - anybody remember seeing that footage someplace?
Quote from: WingedFreak71 on Thu, 6 Nov 2008, 04:01
anyone ever hear any concrete reason as to why no new Keaton presence on the SE dvds? - only shows his old Returns interviews - disappointing!
also i know i saw somewhere where the "where does he get those wonderful toys?" line is followed up by joker saying "well go and ask him!" as he yells at the goons to give chase - of course it's not in the movie but i always thought that was a great 2nd part to that line - anybody remember seeing that footage someplace?
Yeah, I've wondered about this. I was surprised that Nicholson gave an interview considering that he almost never does them, at least not on camera. I was expecting Keaton interviews, but not Jack.
As far as "well, go ask him!", I think it was only in the script and they just didn't have him say it. On the VHS it sounds to me like he's telling his men to "Go get those wonderful toys!" because "Where does he..." seemed to be partially cut off for some reason, if I'm right.
Speaking of that scene, I always thought when the Joker asks Vicki "Well, how about a little you-and-me?" it always sounded like "how about a little human being?" which sounded dirty. Then a few years ago, I turned on my CC to find out he didn't say that.
I don't think Keaton really wants the attention.
That was the biggest letdown, Keaton was such a huge part of the films and not having him just plain sucked :(.
Keaton seems to have done more interviews back in 1989 than Nicholson did - gauging by what I have seen.
So perhaps the producers of the docs thought they had enough material from Keaton to go on compared to Jack.
That is one of the things that really did upset me about the SE versions of the Burton films on DVD, it would've been amazing to have new interviews and even commentary on there ( it would have spiced up Burtons boring "put you to sleep" commentary) quite a bit. The only interview footage is from then and around when they were doing BR, that truly is a dissapointment.
Quote from: raleagh on Thu, 6 Nov 2008, 19:39
Keaton seems to have done more interviews back in 1989 than Nicholson did - gauging by what I have seen.
So perhaps the producers of the docs thought they had enough material from Keaton to go on compared to Jack.
Yeah true, but still no Keaton is like haveing st patty's day without green beer.
Quote from: DarkVengeance on Thu, 6 Nov 2008, 19:49
That is one of the things that really did upset me about the SE versions of the Burton films on DVD, it would've been amazing to have new interviews and even commentary on there ( it would have spiced up Burtons boring "put you to sleep" commentary) quite a bit. The only interview footage is from then and around when they were doing BR, that truly is a dissapointment.
LOL agree, both Nolan's and Burton's commentary are well pretty slow to say.
Quote from: Sandman on Thu, 6 Nov 2008, 21:59LOL agree, both Nolan's and Burton's commentary are well pretty slow to say.
It seems like if Burton is doing a commentary with someone else, he is more fun and on track like the Pee-wee DVD with Paul Reubens. I always thought that he should have done a commentary with Sam Hamm for 89 and Daniel Waters for Returns.
Quote from: batass4880 on Thu, 6 Nov 2008, 22:13
Quote from: Sandman on Thu, 6 Nov 2008, 21:59LOL agree, both Nolan's and Burton's commentary are well pretty slow to say.
It seems like if Burton is doing a commentary with someone else, he is more fun and on track like the Pee-wee DVD with Paul Reubens. I always thought that he should have done a commentary with Sam Hamm for 89 and Daniel Waters for Returns.
Yeah i guess it must get kinda boring after awhile lol. That would have been awesome having Hamm and Waters do it with him.
I heard a rumor that Keaton wasn't on speaking terms with Warner's at the time ...but it could be just a rumor
Well, Keaton is Batman. He's a mysterious guy that doesn't like to go out much, and to remain hidden. ;D
i really couldn't see keaton doing alot of what went on in BF like driving the batmobile up the wall or dealing with whiny chris o'donnell - he was definitely a burton fit - wish he had done another but only if burton returned as well
odd that he hasn't worked more since the bat films - one good cop, desperate measures, quicksand, game six, cars (kind of counts) - did he really make enough bat money not to have to work much anymore after 1992? - oh yeah white noise as well
and the "well go and ask him!" line WAS filmed - i saw it somewhere once - just can't remember where - maybe on my 1989 all bat stuff compilation i got at some convention (nerd alert!)
Quoteodd that he hasn't worked more since the bat films - one good cop, desperate measures, quicksand, game six, cars (kind of counts) - did he really make enough bat money not to have to work much anymore after 1992? - oh yeah white noise as well
I hate to say it since im such a huge Keaton fan, But i think he might not have been able to get loads of roles after Batman. Oddly enough one reason he said he didn't want todo BF was he didn't want to get type cast, but you can walk up to anyone (as long as they were alive between 2000-2002) and ask who is Batman and they will say "Michael Keaton" ;D
i want an animated series drawn in the style of the 1st 2 films - voiced by michael keaton - produced and directed by tim burton
get the petition!
Quote from: Sandman on Fri, 7 Nov 2008, 22:11
Quoteodd that he hasn't worked more since the bat films - one good cop, desperate measures, quicksand, game six, cars (kind of counts) - did he really make enough bat money not to have to work much anymore after 1992? - oh yeah white noise as well
I hate to say it since im such a huge Keaton fan, But i think he might not have been able to get loads of roles after Batman. Oddly enough one reason he said he didn't want todo BF was he didn't want to get type cast, but you can walk up to anyone (as long as they were alive between 2000-2002) and ask who is Batman and they will say "Michael Keaton" ;D
I read the Batman Forever Script recently and I gotta say somethings seem to be fit for Keaton, like at one point Chase turns on a screen and supposedly catwoman is fighting batman, and other small references from the past movies. From what I herd keaton ended up not doing it because hd didn't like the direction the movie seemed to be going...
Quote from: Redskull on Mon, 17 Nov 2008, 19:56
Quote from: Sandman on Fri, 7 Nov 2008, 22:11
Quoteodd that he hasn't worked more since the bat films - one good cop, desperate measures, quicksand, game six, cars (kind of counts) - did he really make enough bat money not to have to work much anymore after 1992? - oh yeah white noise as well
I hate to say it since im such a huge Keaton fan, But i think he might not have been able to get loads of roles after Batman. Oddly enough one reason he said he didn't want todo BF was he didn't want to get type cast, but you can walk up to anyone (as long as they were alive between 2000-2002) and ask who is Batman and they will say "Michael Keaton" ;D
I read the Batman Forever Script recently and I gotta say somethings seem to be fit for Keaton, like at one point Chase turns on a screen and supposedly catwoman is fighting batman, and other small references from the past movies. From what I herd keaton ended up not doing it because hd didn't like the direction the movie seemed to be going...
Really that's pretty awesome. Was the script better then the movie?
Stupid question--Did Jack color his hair green or did he wear a wig?
wig
Quote from: The Batman Returns on Wed, 28 Jan 2009, 01:56If the Joker's hair really were a wig, then why are there grey hairlines?
That's why I asked because the shot of him right after he, Bob and that bald goon barged into Vicky's apartment shows tiny streaks of what appear to be natural color. It's clearly visible on DVD and probably very noticeable on Blu-ray.
Nicholson states on the DVD featurettes that it's a wig, because he and Burton were triyng to choose the right color, and Burton wanted one that was too bright/goofy looking, before realizing how bright the green was.
"Less Clarabell [The Clown]." was what Nicholson told him to go for.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 28 Jan 2009, 03:34
Nicholson states on the DVD featurettes that it's a wig, because he and Burton were triyng to choose the right color, and Burton wanted one that was too bright/goofy looking, before realizing how bright the green was.
Nicholson's Joker wig was truly convincing, as well as DeVito's Penguin wig.
Quote from: Sandman on Fri, 7 Nov 2008, 22:11
I hate to say it since im such a huge Keaton fan, But i think he might not have been able to get loads of roles after Batman. Oddly enough one reason he said he didn't want todo BF was he didn't want to get type cast, but you can walk up to anyone (as long as they were alive between 2000-2002) and ask who is Batman and they will say "Michael Keaton" ;D
I dunno if I agree with that. A lot of people have a tremendous affection for Keaton in the role... but the Nolan franchise is so big that a ton of people (even among those who were "of age" in the time span you mention) still prefer Christian Bale. I'll never relate to that mindset but people do have it.
Keaton will always be Batman for me though.
Quote from: The Batman Returns on Wed, 28 Jan 2009, 00:56Michael Keaton fully IMMERSED into the role of Bruce Wayne/Batman! It was all up to him to clean up the mess of silliness that the previous actors before him had left. He displayed all of the emotion that Bruce Wayne has, & all of the darkness that Batman has, something the other actors never displayed. No one will EVER topple Michael Keaton, the one & only live action Batman! ;D
Not sure I see what you mean when you say "the other actors never displayed". If you mean West, Kilmer and Clooney, yeah, I'll go with you on that but if you're including Bale in there, I'll have to disagree. I think you know my views about the Nolan franchise but Bale did a credible job, even if I'll go to my grave thinking of Keaton and nobody else as Batman.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 28 Jan 2009, 03:34
Nicholson states on the DVD featurettes that it's a wig, because he and Burton were triyng to choose the right color, and Burton wanted one that was too bright/goofy looking, before realizing how bright the green was.
"Less Clarabell [The Clown]." was what Nicholson told him to go for.
Oh yeah I forgot about that. Thanks Doc!
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 28 Jan 2009, 03:34
Nicholson states on the DVD featurettes that it's a wig, because he and Burton were triyng to choose the right color, and Burton wanted one that was too bright/goofy looking, before realizing how bright the green was.
"Less Clarabell [The Clown]." was what Nicholson told him to go for.
Nick Dudman has said ?One of the things that had me worried from the beginning was the Joker?s green hair. Green dyed hair very often goes brown on film, taking on a dull muddy tone. So we had to come up with a green color that would photograph well ? which was pretty tricky. Luckily, the hairdresser on the film ? Cohn Jamison ? is probably the top person in the field. He went to work testing greens on all types of hair and finally pinned that down.?
So it might seem like Jack had his hair dyed, but in the SE DVD he talks about wigs, plus...
...as the Joker, his hair is actually thicker and in certain scenes (Vicki's apartment) you can see the wig and white skull cap on his forehead.
^ A-ha, mystery solved. Thanks raleagh!
Like I said before, Nicholson's wig is almost convincingly real. Do any of you agree?
Quote from: The Batman Returns on Wed, 28 Jan 2009, 23:53
Like I said before, Nicholson's wig is almost convincingly real. Do any of you agree?
Yes, that's why I was confused. :)
Here's a quick question....is the gargoyle still on Joker's leg when his body is dented into the ground? I can't recall....
I don't remember seeing it in the shot of his dead body at the bottom of the tower. I would assume that it was shattered to pieces after hitting the ground, though I could be wrong.
I have a question. In Batman Returns, why does Batman throw a tube of napalm at Catwoman's arm? How come he just didn't throw a batarang?
napalm? - is that what that wierd blue stuff was?- i agree it was a strange choice, whatever that blue crap was - should've been a bata-something
also i always found the roof battle odd in as much as where they were landing when they were falling all around up there
Anyone know why he shook that capsule like it was a bottle of chocolate milk right before he hurled it at her?
Quote from: batass4880 on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, 05:09
Anyone know why he shook that capsule like it was a bottle of chocolate milk right before he hurled it at her?
Maybe it was to make the napalm more effective or something? Anyway, what purpose did it serve? It seemed as though he wanted to light her on fire.
Quote from: batass4880 on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, 04:02
I don't remember seeing it in the shot of his dead body at the bottom of the tower. I would assume that it was shattered to pieces after hitting the ground, though I could be wrong.
Yeah, I dont think I can see the gargoyle either. I suppose it could have dropped off in mid air.
And the napalm was meant to sting, and it did just that. Catwoman loosened her grip and Batman got out of that situation. It would be impossible to burn someone?s entire body with that stuff, it just burns that part it is thrown at. And shaking it slightly would mix the ingredients together.
The gargoyle is shattered beside the Joker's body. :)
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, 07:25
The gargoyle is shattered beside the Joker's body. :)
Ah. I'll have to look closer, it's probably due to my poor television resolution or something blurring it out. ;D
I think it's important to remember we don't know what Batman threw at her. She called it napalm but that doesn't necessarily mean that's what he threw. He never said what it was.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, 16:48
I think it's important to remember we don't know what Batman threw at her. She called it napalm but that doesn't necessarily mean that's what he threw. He never said what it was.
From what I've read, it was napalm. But then again, perhaps you're right. I mean, why would he throw flammable gas at her anyway? ???
Quote from: The Batman Returns on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, 16:59
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, 16:48
I think it's important to remember we don't know what Batman threw at her. She called it napalm but that doesn't necessarily mean that's what he threw. He never said what it was.
From what I've read, it was napalm. But then again, perhaps you're right. I mean, why would he throw flammable gas at her anyway? ???
The stuff has to have some potency. It'd be no point throwing a tube of un-set jelly at her.
Kevin Smith--Did he like Tim Burton's Batman or did he not like it?
I ask because I heard him say something along the lines of "Tim Burton knows nothing about Batman and it shows in '89" yet he was on the '89 SE DVD saying nice things about it. Anyone know what his real feelings are on the film?
Quote from: batass4880 on Sun, 15 Feb 2009, 03:29
Kevin Smith--Did he like Tim Burton's Batman or did he not it?
I ask because I heard him say something along the lines of "Tim Burton knows nothing about Batman and it shows in '89" yet he was on the '89 SE DVD saying nice things about it. Anyone know what his real feelings are on the film?
If he didn't like the film, then why would he have appeared in the special features? I mean, was he getting paid or something to give BATMAN a positive view? And yes, I have heard & read about his comments on Tim Burton.
From what I've read, his comments were negative. Why would he say such things? I have no clue. However, it does make him sound very jealous of Burton's trademark talent.
Quote from: The Batman Returns on Sun, 15 Feb 2009, 03:45If he didn't like the film, then why would he have appeared in the special features? I mean, was he getting paid or something to give BATMAN a positive view or something? And yes, I have heard & read about his comments on Tim Burton.
Why would he say such things? I have no clue. However, it does make him sound very jealous of Burton's trademark talent.
Basically, Smith said that Burton stole his idea for the ending for the 2001 Planet of the Apes movie from a comic of his. Burton denied it by saying something like "Anyone who knows me knows I don't read comic books" to which Smith responded "Yeah, that explains Batman".
At first I thought Smith was being sarcastic by basically saying "Oh you don't like comics, yet you made a comic book movie" but I now know he was saying that Burton had no idea what he was doing when he made '89.
That was in 2001. Then to my surprise, he was on the 2005 '89 DVD basically praising it.
Quote from: batass4880 on Sun, 15 Feb 2009, 03:59
Basically, Smith said that Burton stole his idea for the ending for the 2001 Planet of the Apes movie from a comic of his. Burton denied it by saying something like "Anyone who knows me knows I don't read comic books" to which Smith responded "Yeah, that explains Batman".
At first I thought Smith was being sarcastic by basically saying "Oh you don't like comics, yet you made a comic book movie" but I now know he was saying that Burton had no idea what he was doing when he made '89.
That was in 2001. Then to my surprise, he was on the 2005 '89 DVD basically praising it.
But what was his true purpose in 89's special features? Was his positive perspective a way of saying that he was an idiot for saying that BATMAN was directed by an "idiot"?
Quote from: batass4880 on Sun, 15 Feb 2009, 03:59Basically, Smith said that Burton stole his idea for the ending for the 2001 Planet of the Apes movie from a comic of his. Burton denied it by saying something like "Anyone who knows me knows I don't read comic books" to which Smith responded "Yeah, that explains Batman".
He (Smith) talks about this on the first
Evening With Kevin Smith DVD. Basically he noticed that the end of Burton's Planet of the Apes was similar to his ending to the ending of a Jay & Silent Bob comic book he created. From the sounds of it, Smith didn't actually think Burton ripped it off, he just sarcastically told a journalist friend of his something like "I'm ticked about it and I'm gonna sue him". It was intended to be purely for entertainment but the press ran with it and before Smith knew what hit him, he was getting calls from people asking when he's going to file his lawsuit, what exactly he feels Burton ripped off, etc. Burton at one point got in the mix personally and said "I'd never read a comic book, esp one written by Smith". Smith's sarcastic reply was "yeah, that'd explain Batman". I think Smith was just taking a cheap shot there as B89's comic book influences are too clear and specific to be an accident.
QuoteThat was in 2001. Then to my surprise, he was on the 2005 '89 DVD basically praising it.
Quote from: The Batman Returns on Sun, 15 Feb 2009, 04:09But what was his true purpose in 89's special features? Was his positive perspective a way of saying that he was an idiot for saying that BATMAN was directed by an "idiot"?
Whether or not Smith actually liked B89, I think he's not so stupid as to ignore the importance it has/had. In his mind, that likely transcends his own personal feelings about the film. I liken it to when Episode One came out. Love or hate that film, you can't say that 1999 was a bad time to be a Star Wars fan. Plus, the guy is, by his own admission, a "press whore" who will let anybody interview him for just about anything. I think he involved himself in the B89 extras (A) because of his love for being interviewed and (B) because even he recognizes the importance of B89 as a cultural high point of his high school years, and of the 80's, and of comics adaptations, and of film in general.
The modern equivalent seems to be TDK. Whatever I think of the flick, there's no denying the influence it's likely going to have (for better or worse) on future comic book movies.
I heard from Wikipedia that after Sean Young got injured, Tim Burton considered Michelle Pfeiffer to play Vicki Vale but then decided it would be too awkward because Michael Keaton and Pfeiffer were an item at the time.
Anyone know if this was true?
Quote from: batass4880 on Thu, 19 Feb 2009, 19:44
I heard from Wikipedia that after Sean Young got injured, Tim Burton considered Michelle Pfeiffer to play Vicki Vale but then decided it would be too awkward because Michael Keaton and Pfeiffer were an item at the time.
Anyone know if this was true?
Yes.
Another stupid question--"I make art until someone dies". What exactly does that mean?
Quote from: batass4880 on Thu, 26 Feb 2009, 02:11
Another stupid question--"I make art until someone dies". What exactly does that mean?
Simple. He means that his victims laugh themselves to death, and afterwards they have the grin plastered across their face. He considers this art.
Quote from: batass4880 on Thu, 26 Feb 2009, 02:11Another stupid question--"I make art until someone dies". What exactly does that mean?
Jack Napier was always a sick f#!k. But before the acid, he was a hitman. After the acid, he was still a killer but in a different way. He used murder as a means of artistic and psychological expression.
He was always going to be a murderer, the deal is that becoming the Joker changed his perspective (but not so much his basic character and morality). Me? I think he sorta lied to Vicki. He had it backwards. "Someone dies so I can make art."
In his old life, he killed for money. In his new life, he killed to artistically express himself.
You tell me which is sicker...
Well, looking at Alicia (as he calls her, a "living work of art"), apparently he's into disfigurement for fun, and he considers that (and/or the use of Smylex to kill) art. So he really does "make" art until someone dies. He disfigures them repeatedly, until they die.
That's why he tries to hit Vicki in the face with a stream of acid from his flower. He wants to start "making" art with her. If you look at it, he aims straight for her face, and I'd say the damage on Alicia's face might be consistant with acid burns.
And they say Jack's Joker wasn't a sick f***er. ;)
Anyone know why the Penguin action figure by Kenner looks nothing like him from the movie? It's just the comic book one that's all black instead of blue.
^ Good question. That's also strange, b/c every other DeVito Penguin product looks just like DeVito.
Another question is this: how come the Batman action figures aren't wearing the Returns suit (color variations included) for the Returns action figure line?
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Sun, 8 Mar 2009, 03:59
^ Good question. That's strange, b/c every other DeVito Penguin product looks just like DeVito.
Another question is this: how come Batman isn't wearing the Returns suit for the Returns action figure line?
Yeah seriously. If they got the Catwoman figure right, you'd think they'd get those two right also.
Quote from: batass4880 on Sun, 8 Mar 2009, 04:06
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Sun, 8 Mar 2009, 03:59
^ Good question. That's strange, b/c every other DeVito Penguin product looks just like DeVito.
Another question is this: how come Batman isn't wearing the Returns suit for the Returns action figure line?
Yeah seriously. If they got the Catwoman figure right, you'd think they'd get those two right also.
I recall reading that the reason why the Penguin action figure didn't look like DeVito's was b/c it would've frightened children.
I'm sure that as for the Batman figures, that was just pure laziness.
QuoteAnyone know why the Penguin action figure by Kenner looks nothing like him from the movie? It's just the comic book one that's all black instead of blue.
Quote^ Good question. That's strange, b/c every other DeVito Penguin product looks just like DeVito.
Another question is this: how come Batman isn't wearing the Returns suit for the Returns action figure line?
The BR line represented the third time 'round for that particular Penguin mold. My first guess would be that Kenner was being unbelievably cheap. That, or Kenner didn't want to risk crafting a figure that genuinely looked like the DeVito Penguin.
As for Batman, pretty much it's the same for him too... but with less articulation, fewer features and a somewhat redesigned head.
Cuz, y'know, kids HATE it when figures look like their movie counterparts. Looking back at it, pretty much the only one they got "right" was Catwoman.
Still, I'll give Kenner props for more aggressively accessorizing their Batman line. The B89 Toy Biz line had, what, Batman, Joker, Bob, a Batmobile, a Batwing and a cheapass Batcave? I was far more impressed with Kenner's line(s). More figures, more vehicles, more sets, etc.
Quote from: batass4880 on Sun, 8 Mar 2009, 03:53
Anyone know why the Penguin action figure by Kenner looks nothing like him from the movie? It's just the comic book one that's all black instead of blue.
I read that Devito wouldn't approve his likeness...that's why the original animated Series Penguin figure was yanked after a few months of being on the shelves because it was modeled too much after the Returns Penguin.
For the Batman figures, I think they were using old Dark Knight Collection molds. They probably thought that it would be easier to cut corners with the penguin figure as well. The reason the catwoman was accurate was because I don't think there had been a catwoman figure in the U.S. before, so they had to create a new mold anyway.
^ Actually, there was going to be a Catwoman figure released for the DC Super Powers Collection back in 1986, but it ended up getting canceled. And I think I recall seeing Catwoman merchandise before 1992.
Here's two Burton film questions. How did Bruce learn to become a martial artist, & where did he get all of those foreign valuables that are displayed in Wayne Manor?
Keaton's Bruce Wayne probably learned martial art skills from the same people who taught Bale's Bruce Wayne, i.e. Henry Ducard, his mentor (irrespective of whether he was actually Ras Al Ghul or not).
Bruce Wayne's a billionaire, so it would not be very difficult for him to collect various artefacts from throughout the world. I imagine that he collected them as 'research' for his own costume and armour pre-Batman. Alternatively, he might just be a freak with a military history obsession.
^ My guess is that he collected foreign valuables while living within each of the countries he was learning & training in.
Anyone know what that weird look was all about that Knox gave to Vicki, right after he said to Bruce ?Yeah, six is good??
He's trying to mock Wayne by mimicing his words, and like in real life, he doesn't know what Bruce is going to say, so that's why Knox's lipsynching doesn't flow perfectly with Wayne's words.
Bruce had sweetly but rather absent-mindedly sought Knox's approval as to the number of champagne cases he should open for his guests. Knox had rather sarcastically concurred with Bruce's decision to open six cases, and was thus sharing a look with Vicki which acknowledged their earlier conversation about how eccentric the rich (i.e. Bruce Wayne) tend to be.
I love these small moments in Batman '89. They're real 'character moments' in which the actors have been allowed to invest their roles with genuine quirks. Not the ordinary bland, stoic playing you usually associate with 'comic book' movies.
Was the the Joker ever a failed comedian prior to becoming a mob hitman in the novel?
No. I think that interpretation of the character only exists in The Killing Joke.
As far as the novelisation is concerned, there is very little extrapolation as to what you see in the film. There are the occasional deleted scene, such as the Bruce and Vicki horseriding and if memory serves, the scene in the original screenplay in which the Joker holds the Mayor hostage (although I might be wrong about that). But definitely no reference to the Joker being a failed comedian. In fact the film makes it quite clear that Jack Napier is quite young when he makes his 'first hit'.
There is no comedian backstory for the novel. If he were a mob hitman, chances are he wouldn't be trying his luck at comedy clubs. Such an idea would run completely counter to the characterization of Jack Naiper in the novel and film, hence why it's not there.
The novel actually extrapolates A LOT, the novel is the reason why I understand every little nuance in the film. And yes, the extended "mayor as hostage" sequence is in the novel. Frankly, I wish it had been filmed, I don't care if Batman appears in-costume at sunset, it's a badass sequence.
But had it been filmed, it would have added something like another 15 or 20 minutes to the film's running time, perhaps that's why they cut it from the shooting script?
I like the novelisation of this film but whilst I would agree that it occasionally explores the mindset of the characters, what they are thinking and feeling, I don't think it goes into that much detail regarding their backstory other than what we already get from the film.
We don't get much (or in some cases nothing) about Vicki Vale in the Corto Maltese, Bruce Wayne's day-to-day job, Jack Napier's background or Commissioner Gordon's family life. The Batman Returns novelisation, which I've perused on several occasions goes even less into the characters' respective backgrounds and motivations, although there is a great section about Selina Kyle as a girl (the book states she had her own pony and trampoline).
I think Batman '89 pretty much speaks for itself regarding the various nuances of the characters mainly thanks to the exemplary performances of the leading actors.
When Bruce was in the Batcave doing homework on the RTC, was he just doing research on the gang themselves because of what happened at Gotham Plaza or was he trying to prove that Cobblepot was their boss?
That line Alfred says confuses me. He says something like ?Why do you have to prove that the Penguin is not who he says he is??, which implies he was trying to link him to them.
But after Alfred says ?I suppose you feel better now?? Bruce says ?No, now I feel worse?, which implies he just stumbled on him being the leader.
Bruce Wayne was definitely trying to tie Oswald Cobblepot to The Red Triangle Gang. He is after all an obsessive detective. However, once he found out that his suspicions regarding Oswald were founded he didn't take any satisfaction in the bad news.
Exactly. Alfred assumed he's feel better now that he knew he was right, but Bruce actually felt worse, because he was right. Cobblepot is actually a threat, whereas Bruce would have prefurred him to be squaky clean.
At first on the TV news report about the Penguin, notice that Bruce is unassuming. When Cobblepot starts talking about his parents, Keaton looks down, remembering his own parents, and begins to feel sad for himself, and Cobblepot, feeling a certain kinship. When he says "His parents... I hope he find them," He means it. However, it's when Shreck goes right up to him and stands buddy-buddy with the Penguin, that Keaton's face turns to a look of suspicion, as he knows Shreck is no good.
Brilliant character moment.
Does anyone know if the Joker having an interest in art in '89 was written because Jack is an art lover in real life?
Not to my knowledge.
Although it was completely within the makeup of his character, as the Joker has always been vain.
On the subject of the Joker's interests, where did the report on the Jack Napier's aptitude for 'art and chemistry' come from? His high school class report? I can't imagine there was a chemical lab in prison where I assume the psych who compiled the report was based; I can't see it being a good idea for the inmates to experiment with explosive chemicals. ;)
It seems like a pity that someone as academically talented as Jack Napier decided to become a hood - even other Batman villains like Poison Ivy, Two-Face and the film version of The Riddler at least flirted with a respectable career before their descent into full-blown villainy.
At one point in the '89 commentary, Tim Burton starts to talk about Bob Kane and it clearly gets edited. Anybody know why it was cut?
There are many spots that sound like that, I'm sure it's just someone cutting to help Tim get to the point.
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, 04:42
I have a question. In Batman Returns, why does Batman throw a tube of napalm at Catwoman's arm? How come he just didn't throw a batarang?
It wasn't nepalm according to the official magazine of the movie. Instead it was acid and if you remember correctly. Batman had to shake it up before throwing it so that it can cause a chemical reaction.
I honestly don't know. why he didn't throw a batarang? Maybe it had more to do with the position he was in. He probably felt that he couldn't get a direct hit, and if he were to use acid instead he would have better results.
Now, what I really would like to know is why did Tim Burton decide not to have any scenes with penguin smoking a cigarette from a cigarette holder?
Considering, all the marketing with promotional posters, magazines, and photo galleries you clearly see penguin smoking a cigarette. I believe that this was the one element missing in the film.
Quote from: THE "BAT-MAN" on Thu, 19 Mar 2009, 22:23
Now, what I really would like to know is why did Tim Burton decide not to have any scenes with penguin smoking a cigarette from a cigarette holder?
Considering, all the marketing with promotional posters, magazines, and photo galleries you clearly see penguin smoking a cigarette. I believe that was the only element missing in the film.[/color]
It would have made no sense for him to have smoked before running for mayor (it would probably have been considered too human for him). And to add more to this, the strange thing is that there were those posters of him smoking a cigarette, even though he never did so in the film, like you said.
If you remember they did try putting a cigarette holder in his mouth. Apparently they were encouraging him to smoke. I think penguin smoking was needed because its all part of how Bob Kane got the idea for creating him. Bob created penguin from looking at a pack of cigarettes.
Quote from: THE "BAT-MAN" on Thu, 19 Mar 2009, 22:44
If you remember they did try putting a cigarette holder in his mouth. Apparently they were encouraging him to smoke. I think penguin smoking was needed because its all part of how Bob Kane got the idea for creating him. Bob created penguin from looking at a pack of cigarettes.
I knew that, but I just thought that the posters were pretty strange (but then again, I've seen this before in the real world).
Quote from: THE "BAT-MAN" on Thu, 19 Mar 2009, 22:23
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, 04:42
I have a question. In Batman Returns, why does Batman throw a tube of napalm at Catwoman's arm? How come he just didn't throw a batarang?
It wasn't nepalm according to the official magazine of the movie. Instead it was acid and if you remember correctly. Batman had to shake it up before throwing it so that it can cause a chemical reaction.
She did claim that it was indeed napalm, but since when was she ever a scientist or a veteran?
^ When she said he "napalmed my arm..." it was meant to be a figure of speech. Like when you get drunk and you say you're bombed or polluted.
Quote from: batass4880 on Fri, 20 Mar 2009, 00:52
^ When she said he "napalmed my arm..." it was meant to be a figure of speech. Like when you get drunk and you say you're bombed or polluted.
Interesting.
For those of you who have played Returns for the Nintendo/NES, please take a look at this:
http://www.vgmuseum.com/ads/nes/a/konami0034.jpg
Zoom-in on the image and you'll notice that the Batmobile stage has the Gotham skyline in the background, which unfortunately is NOT part of the game.
Anyone know why?
^ The link is not displaying the image you're referring to.
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Sat, 4 Apr 2009, 22:10
^ The link is not displaying the image you're referring to.
Really? It works for me. What does it do?
Quote from: batass4880 on Sat, 4 Apr 2009, 22:16
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Sat, 4 Apr 2009, 22:10
^ The link is not displaying the image you're referring to.
Really? It works for me. What does it do?
It reads, "Hotlinking is not allowed."
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Sat, 4 Apr 2009, 22:18It reads, "Hotlinking is not allowed."
Hmmm... Then just go to www.vgmuseum.com, go to the right-hand part of the screen where it says "game ads", click "NES" then click Batman Returns.
Quote from: batass4880 on Sat, 4 Apr 2009, 22:22
Quote from: Dark Knight Detective on Sat, 4 Apr 2009, 22:18It reads, "Hotlinking is not allowed."
Hmmm... Then just go to www.vgmuseum.com, go to the right-hand part of the screen where it says "game ads", click "NES" then click Batman Returns.
Same results. :(
^ Did you click the link? If so, then don't. Just enter the address from your keyboard.
^ That didn't work, either. :P
Sorry dude, I'm out of options.
try this
go to http://www.vgmuseum.com
then put http://www.vgmuseum.com/ads/nes/a/konami0034.jpg in the address bar and go to that
if you still get a hotlinking warning, hit refresh (f5)
I still can't get to the ad, ral (even after pressing F5). :P Could you post it, please?
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.batmanmovieonline.com%2Fgallery%2F1238954139.jpg&hash=d7d897d98fbaaf603220e0a471858546741061cf)
Thanks a lot! 8)
You know it's funny. I've never actually owned a Batman movie on dvd except the Dark Knight I just got, so I've never ever seen Keaton talking in any interview or off-screen at all. I've only seen him in the movies. I'm wondering what he's actually like as a person?
Quote from: Knight-of-Darkness on Sat, 11 Apr 2009, 15:59
You know it's funny. I've never actually owned a Batman movie on dvd except the Dark Knight I just got, so I've never ever seen Keaton talking in any interview or off-screen at all. I've only seen him in the movies. I'm wondering what he's actually like as a person?
Here's a Keaton interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oxeodxW2TQ
If Gotham City is based on Manhattan then where do you think Wayne Manor is located, figuratively? Upstate NY? New Jersey? Long Island?
Quote from: batass4880 on Thu, 24 Sep 2009, 02:54
If Gotham City is based on Manhattan then where do you think Wayne Manor is located, figuratively? Upstate NY? New Jersey? Long Island?
Although I understand that Gotham in the comics is supposed to be
set in New Jersey, assuming that Gotham City is based on New York, I get the impression that Wayne Manor is situated in Gotham's equivalent of Long Island, specifically The Hamptons or some very exclusive part of the city.
That's a long drive ;D
Quote from: batass4880 on Thu, 24 Sep 2009, 03:18
That's a long drive ;D
Maybe Gotham's not as large as New York/ more compressed. :-\
Yeah, you're right. There's a few comics and screenplays that states that he lives about 20-30 minutes away from the city.