OK lets try this again.
We all know how bad B&R is so what would be you idea's to fix it?
i'd go with:
-Keep Val Kilmer, Sure he wasn't th best but he did great with what he had and Val is just such a great actor with better script and no Schumcher who know's how well he could have been.
-NO Schmacher, I think that speaks for itself.
-Keep Nicole Kidman, She wasn't that bad and was 1000 times better then Elle Macpherson that was next to useless. I also hate when they never say what happened to his girlfriends what is this Bond or Batman.
-Keep Robin but NO BATGIRL, We all ready got Robin can't get rid of him without screwing somthing up and O'Donnell's fine for the most part just make him less whiney...but Batgirl...just not needed.
-Ditch the Neons.
Your ideas?
Rewrite the script in a vein that was closer to Forever. Really kid friendly, but could still be taken as a serious piece of film. Find a weight and a emotional center. (Example: Bruce passing on his knowledge of a life lived for revenge and its folly to Dick was the center of Forever)
For me, I would eliminate Batgirl and use the Scarecrow and Catwoman as the villains. I never really cared for the Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy characters.
Shoot Schumacher. Hire Nolan earlier than 2005 so he can start his series sooner. ;D
I think one villain also would be good enough for this movie. Just have freeze in it. We don't need both villains because one will be some secondary to the other.
But yeah I think Val being batman again would have helped the movie, even if it was the only thing that was changed in the movie.
Oh and no batgirl for sure!
No bane either!
But yeah Kidman back instead of the other love interest would have helped too.
1) Give the filmmakers the scripts for a few Batman: TAS episodes.
2) Tell them to plagiarize every word.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 22 Oct 2008, 01:55
Shoot Schumacher. Hire Nolan earlier than 2005 so he can start his series sooner. ;D
Erhhh I should have said from the start that its not about Nolan, what are the ways that you would fix it without rebooting it.
And no stupid "Nolan is god" crap either.
Nolan isnt god, but we all know he is the only one to continue batman the way he should've been done and in a new interesting take, that in my opinion no one else could've thought up, that guy is amazing just as Burton is, both very good visionary directors!!
The whole topic is how to fix Batman and Robin NOT reboot it, i love Nolans films but that's not what were talking about. So please lets try and keep it back on topic K.
Well then maybe you shouldnt have mentioned Nolan then huh? ;)
Quote from: DarkVengeance on Sun, 26 Oct 2008, 05:13
Well then maybe you shouldnt have mentioned Nolan then huh? ;)
'The Dark Knight' mentioned Nolan, not Sandman.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sun, 26 Oct 2008, 20:28
Quote from: DarkVengeance on Sun, 26 Oct 2008, 05:13
Well then maybe you shouldnt have mentioned Nolan then huh? ;)
'The Dark Knight' mentioned Nolan, not Sandman.
I stand corrected! ;D
back on topic.
Completely new script.
Fire Schumacher. Bring back Burton.
Fire Ah-nuld. Hire Patrick Stewart.
Fire Clooney. Hire Keaton.
Fire O'Donnel.
Fire Silverstone.
Fire and ex-communicate Akiva Goldsman.
Tone down the kiddy'ness and stupidity.
Play Freeze as society's Frankenstein.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 27 Oct 2008, 04:36
Wash, rinse, repeat.
lol, nice touch. All those things would work excellently, no doubt.
I still maintain that IF you had to keep Joel, the best thing they could have done was rewrite the script in a similar line of Forever, even if that meant duplicating it (still be better than ultimately what we got), also making sure to delete a few characters like Bruce's new and utterly useless new beau, Batgirl, Bane, and maybe even rething the choice of villains.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 27 Oct 2008, 04:36
Completely new script.
Fire Schumacher. Bring back Burton.
Fire Ah-nuld. Hire Patrick Stewart.
Fire Clooney. Hire Keaton.
Fire O'Donnel.
Fire Silverstone.
Fire and ex-communicate Akiva Goldsman.
Tone down the kiddy'ness and stupidity.
Play Freeze as society's Frankenstein.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
If only all of that was as easy said as done!
Having Keaton come back is having a dream come true, esp if he is taking on Patrick Stewart Frezze. LOL everyone wants him for frezze i guess he just is Frezze.
There is a French film called the City of Lost Children. In the Film a mad scientist is unable to dream so he kidnaps children and hooks them and himself up to a machine in order to experience their dreams. But all of the kids have nightmares because they are afraid of the scientist. Ron Perlman plays a circus strongman looking for his missing brother who just so happens is the only kid who not afraid of the scientist. You ask me where I'm going with this? The actor playing the villain is a man named Daniel Emilfork, he is the boniest, most gaunt person I've ever seen and ever since I can't se anyone but him as Mr. Freeze.
As for Fixing Batman and Robin? NO BATGIRL! Give Uma Thurman a better written part for Poison Ivy. Lose the neon, nipples, and the stupid ice puns. Give Robin his original costume back(the title is Batman and Robin, not Batman and Nightwing), have Freeze try to take revenge against Ferris Boyle, who could serve as a Max Schreck type of third villain, and take the time to get the script right!
The big problem was it was
A. directed by Schumacher who does dramas well(The Client, A Time To Kill) but does terrible with any kind of fantasy.
B. Pressure was put on the production to make it "toyetic"
C. Released too soon after Batman Forever. All of the previous films had three years between them. Of course that didn't help Batman Forever in the story department, but the film was a financial success, more than likely due to the passage of time, and Jim "wreck my childhood favorites" Carrey was a big deal at the time.
We all know that Batman & Robin can't be fixed, but here is an interesting video clip that attempts too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dcEwVNdi5s
Quote from: gordonblu on Mon, 16 Feb 2009, 04:54
The big problem was it was
A. directed by Schumacher who does dramas well(The Client, A Time To Kill) but does terrible with any kind of fantasy.
I don't entirely agree with you there. The Lost Boys and Flatliners are both to some extent decent fantasy films, and their respective tone (especially Flatliner's) would have lent itself well to a Batman film. Schumacher even stated in a later interview that he'd wish he could have made The Dark Knight Returns, and whilst I have my reservations about any adaptation of that particular graphic novel I still believe that it's a pity he wasn't allowed to direct a darker Batman; he was certainly capable of doing so. I'm not saying that Schumacher could have done as good a job as Burton (or Nolan has now done), but he could easily have had a fair stab at it.
To be fair, the fault lies with the studio, and only with Schumacher in as far as he didn't tell them where to go with their 'toyetic' concept and the absolutely awful screenplays he chose to direct.
Quote from: THE "BAT-MAN" on Wed, 22 Apr 2009, 04:51
We all know that Batman & Robin can't be fixed, but here is an interesting video clip that attempts too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dcEwVNdi5s
The film is PERFECT the way it is - it's Batman Forever's "mean twisted soul" revealed without "dark Wayne moments/Dick Grayson character scenes" pretensions. ;D I would remove ONE thing, just ONE thing - the bad saxophone music that is heard every time Poison Ivy appears. This sax is even worse than the music heard in "erotic" scenes of bad B-grade DTV cop thrillers of the 90s.
Quote from: THE "BAT-MAN" on Wed, 22 Apr 2009, 04:51
We all know that Batman & Robin can't be fixed, but here is an interesting video clip that attempts too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dcEwVNdi5s
The video was actually pretty good. Even though there's no way on Earth to fix all of Batman & Robin, it's nice to see people give it a try at certain scenes. 8)
You know what's one thing that bugged me about this film? Besides all of it. lol.
Was that they used what's her face to play Batgirl. >_< I have a dirty name for her but I wont say it here as hilarious as I find it to be in my own childish mentality.
And I really didnt understand what the point was of giving her a cool Batgirl cowl, when she only used it in one small clip that lasted seconds before she ended up using the robin-like face mask. UGH!!! KEEP THE COWL ON YOU FREAK!
lol... ok, rant over.
Yeah, the costumes made me want to say "Good Lord, man!" I think Freeze had it the worst, though, butt plate & all. :P
(Why bash Ms. Silverstone? She's hawt! 8))
Not to mention his wonderful lines. "Stay CCOOOUUUHHHLLLL" "CHILL OWUT"
I won't dare watch it again. It's been years since. I recently saw Batman Forever. It wasn't as bad as BandR but those bright greens, yellows, pinks purples and blues were a bit much for me. And Jim Carrey was too Jim Carrey for me as well. lol :P
At least Batman Forever could be watched without your brain rotting, unlike the drug trip that is B&R!
Thats true ;)
True, but one could say that something outright BAD (B&R) is more entertaining compared to something that's simply lame (Forever) ;D
I don't find Forever to be lame. True, I definitely would prefer to have seen Burton's third, but I actually find Forever to be quite entertaining (even though it has scenes that could've been expanded, increased character development, etc.).
Some of you might be thinking, "WHAT!? This guy is a Burtonite, yet he likes Schumacher's Batman Forever?" But hey, that's just me (besides, I've seen worse). :)
One thing I cannot do, is watch Forever, let alone Batman & Robin, right after watching BATMAN and Batman Returns. Those last two totally raped the feel and structure of the first two. The tacky stuff becomes really obvious when you try to follow up one after the other in one sitting.
You really have to watch the latter films with a different mind set for any type of enjoyment to emerge and in individual time frames. ie. Watch BATMAN today, watch Batman Forever next week. lol :P
The last 2 are just silly as heck. There's some silliness in Batman Returns, but the flick was so dark, it needed some of that to balance out.
This is why Im such a fan of the first BATMAN film. :)
Quote from: Batnar on Tue, 28 Apr 2009, 00:00
You really have to watch the latter films with a different mind set for any type of enjoyment to emerge and in individual time frames. ie. Watch BATMAN today, watch Batman Forever next week. lol :P
When should one watch B&R? In the next 10 years... or never? :D
The best time to really enjoy Batman Forever is to watch it once a year during the Halloween season. As for Batman & Robin I say it's hard to enjoy it almost anytime, unless your really bored and your entertaining little kids who like to watch toy commercials.
Quote from: THE "BAT-MAN" on Tue, 28 Apr 2009, 20:13
As for Batman & Robin I say it's hard to enjoy it almost anytime, unless your really bored and your entertaining little kids who like to watch toy commercials.
Indeed. :D
Sometimes I read retrogaming forums and sites, and a humorous review I quite enjoyed had a user comment that said something like "Although this game sucks, I can't imagine my Genesis library without it, for some reason. And every now and then, I find myself firing it up to give it another go". It was a review about none other than Acclaim's Batman Forever for Genesis/Mega Drive. I think it was in the www.sega-16.com
Nostalgia is a strange beast if you're near 30. BF and B&R are awful movies, but they carry their own memories. This is a reason I can't imagine a DVD/BlueRay collection without them ;D
Quote from: silenig on Thu, 30 Apr 2009, 16:27
Sometimes I read retrogaming forums and sites, and a humorous review I quite enjoyed said, among other things, something like "It's an awful game, but for some reason, I keep returning to it from time to time for a quick play". It was a review about none other than Acclaim's Batman Forever for Genesis/Mega Drive. I think it was in sega-16
Nostalgia is a strange beast if you're near 30. BF and B&R are awful movies, but they carry their own memories. This is a reason I'll never avoid having those toyetic movies on my DVD/BlueRay shelf ;D
Believe or not, I actually liked the game when I was 3 (must've been b/c of its Mortal Kombat gameplay). Even though I think it was poorly made now (but not the worse), there's still just something appealing about it.
And to be frank, I own B&R on Blu-Ray (with the rest of the films from the Anthology), but just for its comedy & nothing more. Originally, I hated it in every way, shape, & form, but now, it's just so stupid that it's hilarious! :D
I'm ashamed to admit that Batman Forever (the game) has a similar effect on me. From time to time, once a year maybe when me and friends dust off the old consoles from the attic with pizzas and beers for remembrance time, I'll fire it up in the old Mega Drive (that amazingly still works) for a quick trip ;D
Maybe the old "So Bad It's Good" motto applies to some videogames as well ;D
Too bad my old PSX isn't working anymore, and PS3 isn't compatible with PSOne discs. It's been a decade since I played *shudder* Batman & Robin.
Quote from: silenig on Thu, 30 Apr 2009, 16:50
Maybe the old "So Bad It's Good" motto applies to some videogames as well ;D
LOL :D
Quote from: silenig on Thu, 30 Apr 2009, 16:50
Too bad my old PSX isn't working anymore, and PS3 isn't compatible with PSOne discs. It's been a decade since I played *shudder* Batman & Robin.
Wow, I remember first playing PS1's B&R. Good Lord were the controls God awful! And the lighting... just who on Earth could see what they're doing with that darkness (yes, I know it's possible)? :P
Hey don't feel bad. I own Batman and Robin for SNES too. And I actually beat that damned thing recently, after owning it for so many years... LOL...
I still play my Batman Returns snes game though. I love that one. Very much like Final Fight.
I wish they made a B A T M A N 89 game for the snes though. If it were anything like Batman Returns, Id so be playing it everyday.
I used to program 16 bit video games believe it or not, about 6-7 years ago. I had a very elaborate piece of software that allowed you to create 16 bit games on your pc from scratch. Just to make a decent 5 level game on your own, took me over 1 year. Making the music from scratch, the sprites and the commands. So tedious.
I wish I still had the time I used to. Id so make a BATMAN 89 game for us. lol.
Hmm... If I ever go on a long vacation, I may actually jump into making a MUGEN version of Batman 89 and Batman Returns with all the main characters from the first movie in them. That would be most fun! =]
Hmm.... my brain is tingling. :)
that would be..so..cool. do it now!!!! ;D
lol, I won't lie, I'm actually looking into softwares right now so I can use to hack the SNES version of Batman Returns and redesign it all in favor of 89 Batman. lol
I think I still have my original "make from scratch" game software back home. (i just got in Allentown PA yesterday:) )
If I cant retrieve those files, then I will resort a Mugen. That one is far easier to use.
Me too, I'd love to see something like this ;D