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The real Dark Knight returns. This deserves its own thread.

As much as I wish there had been tweaks to the cowl... that voice! Like the man never left!

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 12 Feb  2023, 23:22
(https://i.postimg.cc/wMT5wsBF/2.gif)

Ngl, this shot looks pretty legit.

I've been extremely skeptical about this movie, but that trailer was something else. Wow!

I'm pretty stoked for this movie, now.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 12 Feb  2023, 23:04
The real Dark Knight returns. This deserves its own thread.

No doubt about it.  8)

I approve.  8)

Edit: I just noticed you can see the underside of Keaton's nose. Interesting cowl change.

I can't tonight. We will talk tomorrow. For right now..

BATMAN RETURNS.

ALERT. THERE IS A TV SPOT WITH MORE!!!!!! BAT VAULT. I CANT POST IM ON MOBILE SOMEBODY SNAG IT!!!

More!!!!!!!!
https://youtu.be/M0zdJOM_5Vg

1989 SUIT WITH BATTLE DAMAGE IS IN THE VAULT!!!

(https://i.redd.it/sqyvzokppuha1.png)

The idea that Keaton's Batman had two suits before the '89 one is just silly, since he's still new in that film. In spite of these allusions to comic book history, I also take some umbridge with the idea that he would have straight-up carried handguns on his person.

That said, that shot is a bigger bummer to me, seeing specialized underwater and snow (?) suits for him as it suggests a rich history and other adventures... which we would have gotten to see under Hamada's plan. Also, the '89 suit being damaged means he retired it right after the night the Joker died, I reckon.

You can actually see a 'timeline' of the batsuits. There are two batsuits that have the 89 emblem that seem to predate the 89 suit my freaking God. We need screen shots STAT! ONE HAS GUNS. Bruce started with guns! FIRST APPEARANCE SUIT

The 'Vault of Suits' picture brightened up a bit.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FozsIiwWcAEA5em?format=jpg&name=large)


Plus a few more.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FozowBtaQAAhSQB?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FozwulMagAMnJNc?format=jpg&name=large)

;D

all the leaked promo art made it look like Keaton had a weak chin. Very glad to see that was wrong. Very pleased! I did not expect to see Keatons Batman fight in the daylight.

cant wait!

Before I say anything else, let's be clear that Keaton is King. His slight growl Bat voice is still there and it's still the template. I love how the cave looks and the action sequences are going to allow him to demolish enemies in ways we didn't see in B89 or BR. Keaton's entrance in the suit is visually fantastic, similar to Darth Vader striding out. Having him utter his famous catchphrase had me smiling from ear to ear. I'm a happy fan at the moment, but have to admit the exclusion of Keaton from the ending makes me nervous about his ultimate fate. But right now, I like what I see.

I had my doubts about giving Keaton the respect he deserves, but this trailer helped to reassure me. Both in the framing and and the fact that so many people are excited about him as well; it looks like most of the comments were about him. It feels weird to see him shot on digital and with CGI enhancements, but that just comes from being so used to the movies. I'm pumped.

The arsenal now looks like a museum, I love it. As others have pointed out, it does suggest a chronology. The blue and gray is obviously a standout. The one on the far left is interesting; it has a similar cowl shape to the Detective Comics 27 design, alongside the 1966 logo. Though the guns are a little concerning. Keaton technically used guns, but for some reason the guns on the Batmobile and Batwing felt different and less personal. Batman never actually carried a pistol in the Golden Age; there was a famous splash page of him brandishing, along with illustrations of him with a holster, but never carried with the intention to kill. I don't know - there's many ways to interpret the golden age comics, so I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to anything.

The shot of the suits also seems to suggest that this film will not be counting the Schumacher films, noting the omission of those suits. Also, the Riddler had previously destroyed the Batcave and all previous suits. These aren't mere replicas, since the '89 suit has the same battle damage as the end of the film.

This doesn't present a continuity issue because DC already created a branch timeline in the Batman '89 comic that excludes the Schumacher films. But that timeline also included Christopher Reeve's Superman, so I feel like we'll get a definitive answer to whether this film can fit nicely or not.

Quote from: Slash Man on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 04:04
The blue and gray is obviously a standout.

The blue and gray suit could be viewed as something a nod towards Bob Ringwood's concept art for B89 back in the day.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9drxpKWkAEjmCT?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Heck, it even appears to have the white eye lenses from what I can tell.

QuoteThe shot of the suits also seems to suggest that this film will not be counting the Schumacher films, noting the omission of those suits. Also, the Riddler had previously destroyed the Batcave and all previous suits. These aren't mere replicas, since the '89 suit has the same battle damage as the end of the film.

This doesn't present a continuity issue because DC already created a branch timeline in the Batman '89 comic that excludes the Schumacher films. But that timeline also included Christopher Reeve's Superman, so I feel like we'll get a definitive answer to whether this film can fit nicely or not.

I'm thinking the B89 comic won't be acknowledged, and will end up being another timeline/Earth that has the Burtonverse as a template.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlkaUmaagAE_0A8?format=jpg&name=medium)

Being that Christopher Reeve's Superman (appearing with what looks like Terence Stamp's General Zod), and George Reeves' Superman are appearing in separate 'bubbles' in this image (I seem to recall Adam West's Batman, and Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman are also making similar cameos), if it's not outright stated, it's probably going to be heavily implied that the Donnerverse and the Burtonverse are indeed disparate and not sharing the same timeline as the comic proposed.

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 01:03
The idea that Keaton's Batman had two suits before the '89 one is just silly, since he's still new in that film. In spite of these allusions to comic book history, I also take some umbridge with the idea that he would have straight-up carried handguns on his person.

I do agree. I'm perhaps viewing those suits (particularly the one with guns) as prototypes he designed in the early years when working out his crime fighting modus operandi, and decided to keep them.

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 01:03
Also, the '89 suit being damaged means he retired it right after the night the Joker died, I reckon.

That's my guess too, and I like the idea. Batman knew the importance of that battle and retired the suit as a tribute. The Joker died but his shadow still cast a strong shadow afterwards. The B89 batarang is still being used, which is fine in my book. I didn't think the Returns version was a replacement per se but rather a device with a specialist purpose.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 12 Feb  2023, 23:30
Ngl, this shot looks pretty legit.

I assume that shot was the only one that impressed you?

If so, I agree. Keaton spreading his cape and diving down was the only real standout shot of that entire trailer. That was great. It's too bad the rest of what we're shown is downright mediocre. The shot where Keaton raises his hands up and says "try not to die" is really awkward; by far the worst shot of him as Batman I've ever seen.

I could bitch in detail about the movie's apparent use of MOS to sh*t on Snyder's direction, the anticipation of the two Barry Allens living up to Muschietti's annoying "two idiots" description, and shoddy CGI, but I won't bother. I still can't believe how this damn studio soured my interest in a film starring two Batman actors I like. Only Warners could do that. Sigh.

A few observations about the trailers. First the positives.

The new footage confirms that the leaked plot details were accurate.

It's cool to see so many recognisable beats taken from the Flashpoint comic. A few things have obviously been changed: they've replaced Thomas Wayne with Bruce Keaton, they've replaced Cyborg with Ezra 2.0, they've replaced Superman with Supergirl, and they've replaced the Atlanteans and Amazons with a Kryptonian invasion force. But aside from that, it seems to be following the central plot structure of Flashpoint fairly closely.

Barry finds his mother is still alive.


He realises he's created an alternate universe and goes to a dilapidated Wayne Manor where he meets an older Batman.


Barry regains his powers through lightning.


It looks like Bruce is using the Batwing as a lightning conductor in this scene.


Batman and the Flash descend through tunnels to access the facility where the captive Kryptonian is being held.


The captive Kryptonian (Supergirl instead of Superman) cowers in her cell.


Batman and the Flash emerge from the facility to find themselves surrounded by soldiers.


The newly released Kryptonian helps them. In the comic Superman left them to their own devices, but later returned to help during the final battle. The moment in the trailer where Supergirl crashes into the ground seems to be referencing that scene.


Then there's all the stuff with the final battle, during the course of which Batman is apparently fatally wounded. He died in the comic, but he might not in the film. It depends on the reshot ending.

The sliding bookcase in the TV spot looks like a nod to the sixties TV show. Note the pictures on the right hand side. I'm sure there'll be a photo of Michael Gough somewhere.


We see a close-up of one of those pictures in the main trailer. Is this a photo of Thomas and Martha Wayne? Bruce appears to be touching the picture to activate the secret entrance.


The scene of Batman holding his hands up reminds me of the deleted scene from Batman 89 where he pretends to surrender to the police at Axis Chemicals.


I have some observations to make concerning the vault and the different Batsuits on display, but I'll post them at another time. I think we should probably have a separate 'Batsuits Thread' for that subject.

Moving on to the negatives.

Based on the preliminary pics, I criticised the new suit for having a lower facial gap that was too small. Now that I've seen the suit in action, that criticism stands. The gap exposing his lower face is too small. It just doesn't look as good as his earlier costumes. However I understand that Keaton is older, his face has changed shape, and this new costume has been designed to fit comfortably on a 70-year-old man. If this is what it has to look like to get him to wear it, then I'm ok with that. It's acceptable. But IMO it doesn't look as good as the earlier Burton/Schumacher costumes. Not based on what we've seen so far.

My biggest concern is the script. I'm not a fan of the screenwriter's previous work (except Bumblebee, which was good), and I think we're in for a very jokey, sentimental and nostalgic screenplay in the vein of The Force Awakens. They already turned the "I'm Batman" line into a joke by having Barry faint after Keaton says it, and the leaks claim Bruce will also say the "let's get nuts" line at some point. Supposedly there's also a joke about him not being able to turn his head, which I'm not keen on. I expect this will be full of nostalgic throwbacks that make you smile the first time you watch the movie, but annoy you on repeated viewings.

But on balance, I remain optimistic. I don't expect a masterpiece here, but I'm looking forward to seeing it. And I am thrilled to see Keaton back in action.

Good stuff, Silver. It's also worth noting The Flash continues the trend of Batman appearing in daylight more frequently.

TDK Rises: Final confrontation with Bane
ZSJL: Superman's resurrection
TB: Rescuing the flood victims
TF: Facilty escape and Batwing battle against the Kryptonians

I think the sequences shot outside and inside Wayne Manor/the Batcave will be more in the Burton inspired atmosphere. The cloudy, lightning covered sky is a good example of expressionism above his domain. But outside of that, it indeed does open up to a new territory visually. Very much like this Batman is leaving his perimeter.

From the Batfleck perspective I think his Batcycle looks fine in action, and it"s a bonus seeing the Flying Fox again. From what I can see of his new suit I'm not really a fan, but not passionately against it.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 12:55

Based on the preliminary pics, I criticised the new suit for having a lower facial gap that was too small. Now that I've seen the suit in action, that criticism stands. The gap exposing his lower face is too small. It just doesn't look as good as his earlier costumes. However I understand that Keaton is older, his face has changed shape, and this new costume has been designed to fit comfortably on a 70-year-old man. If this is what it has to look like to get him to wear it, then I'm ok with that. It's acceptable. But IMO it doesn't look as good as the earlier Burton/Schumacher costumes. Not based on what we've seen so far.

I think the other problem is that this suit is made out of Urethane and not Latex wich sits differently on a person. CosplayChris did a pretty good video on the difference between the Justice League suit (Latex) and Re-shoots (Urethane)

Edit:
Someone on Instagram pointed out this is the costume vault (wich lines up with the suit being tossed in the Manor). I bightened up the screenshot
(https://i.postimg.cc/tgJ5mBcn/Untitled-2.png)

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 13:15
Good stuff, Silver. It's also worth noting The Flash continues the trend of Batman appearing in daylight more frequently.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of that, but whatever. It is what it is. The movie looks pretty fun.

QuoteFrom what I can see of his new suit I'm not really a fan, but not passionately against it.

I like the blue and grey colors, but I think the suit looks pretty weird with the armor plates strapped on. But again, whatever. It is what it is. lol

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 11:05
I assume that shot was the only one that impressed you?

Nope. Now, I love seeing Keaton back in action. Like many of us around here, all roads lead to Keaton in terms of my fandom. He's the founder of the feast. Seeing him suit back up as Batman is cool by definition. I'm familiar with the criticisms/quibbles outlined by SN up there.

But in the end, it's still Keaton wearing the Batman suit. I refuse to criticize or complain about that.

I doubt I'll ever watch the movie. But I don't want to ruin the fun for anyone else by being too vocal about that.. And anyway, I share everyone else's enthusiasm about Keaton returning to the character. I think we all believed his time was long gone. So, if this is as good as it gets, that's fine. I'm just happy he was able to come back in any capacity.

https://youtu.be/HH5HRtGfJG0

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 12:55

We see a close-up of one of those pictures in the main trailer. Is this a photo of Thomas and Martha Wayne? Bruce appears to be touching the picture to activate the secret entrance.

(https://i.postimg.cc/NFP31Xgh/9.png)

That's gotta be his parents, good catch.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 12:55

They already turned the "I'm Batman" line into a joke by having Barry faint after Keaton says it

To be fair, that's the Burtonverse version of Barry that faints, clearly because he's finding out that Bruce Wayne is the fabled vigilante, which makes sense. "Our" Barry is smirking in that moment, because he's The Flash and he already knows. The fact that it serves as an actual introduction for a character in the narrative is the only thing that justifies Keaton catch-phrasing it up.

I don't like how it's shot--his face awkwardly in camera, jaw bursting out of the narrow cowl mouth-hole and taking too long to say it... I sure hope the final film edits it better. Since it's his first on-screen appearance for the purposes of the trailer, I'm assuming they let it drag out for the general audience to recognize who it is. It might not be such a lingering shot in the film itself, since we'll have already seen him as Bruce prior to that moment.

So according to one of the people involved with the film, the holstered items on the "first" Batsuit is actually grapple guns and not the firearms I expected... I hope they show that off in the movie proper. Bad enough everyone believe that the golden age Batman was a regular gun-toter (he wasn't) but I don't want Keaton's legacy tarnished by more fuel for the "comic inaccuracy" squadron. He killed, his vehicles had guns ON them, but he wasn't the type to walk around with a pair of .45s like the Shadow.

https://twitter.com/westonfront/status/1625126670800658438 (https://twitter.com/westonfront/status/1625126670800658438)

My favorite moment in the trailer was actually "we try not to die," although it's jarring to see Batman out in the daylight, Keats' voice is perfect and I love the implication--the young, inexperienced hero turns to the veteran for a plan, and Bats has got the cool head, as ever.

It looks like Keaton's agility has been seriously amped. That's some Arkham-level gliding right there.


I like the shot of him kneeling at the end of that clip. You just know the soldier coming up behind him is about to get his skull busted.


For anyone who's interested, here are the plot details that leaked last year. Many of the scenes in the trailer correspond with those described here. Don't click if you don't want to read spoilers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DCEUleaks/comments/vdpgv2/alleged_full_plot_summary_of_the_flash_from_world/

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 13:15Good stuff, Silver. It's also worth noting The Flash continues the trend of Batman appearing in daylight more frequently.

TDK Rises: Final confrontation with Bane
ZSJL: Superman's resurrection
TB: Rescuing the flood victims
TF: Facilty escape and Batwing battle against the Kryptonians

Speaking of Batman in the daylight, those shots of Keaton in the snow remind me of some of the imagery in Bride of the Demon, which I rate as one of the best Ra's al Ghul stories.


Obviously Batman looks best in the shadows, but it's always interesting to see him in such a strikingly different visual context.

I wonder if the idea of Supergirl landing in Russia instead of America was inspired by Red Son.

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 14:12I think the other problem is that this suit is made out of Urethane and not Latex wich sits differently on a person. CosplayChris did a pretty good video on the difference between the Justice League suit (Latex) and Re-shoots (Urethane)

I know very little about costume design. Presumably the Urethane is the reason the new costume sometimes looks more creased than the older suits?

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 15:58I don't like how it's shot--his face awkwardly in camera, jaw bursting out of the narrow cowl mouth-hole and taking too long to say it... I sure hope the final film edits it better. Since it's his first on-screen appearance for the purposes of the trailer, I'm assuming they let it drag out for the general audience to recognize who it is. It might not be such a lingering shot in the film itself, since we'll have already seen him as Bruce prior to that moment.

I prefer how it was edited in the TV spot, where they inserted a reaction shot of the two Barrys to break up the pause. At the 25 second mark:


Hopefully that's how it'll be edited in the finished film.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 20:04
It looks like Keaton's agility has been seriously amped. That's some Arkham-level gliding right there.

(https://i.postimg.cc/6pfJjLGd/Batman.gif)

I like the shot of him kneeling at the end of that clip. You just know the soldier coming up behind him is about to get his skull busted.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xC7WJ6WS/New-Picture.png)

For anyone who's interested, here are the plot details that leaked last year. Many of the scenes in the trailer correspond with those described here. Don't click if you don't want to read spoilers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DCEUleaks/comments/vdpgv2/alleged_full_plot_summary_of_the_flash_from_world/

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 13:15Good stuff, Silver. It's also worth noting The Flash continues the trend of Batman appearing in daylight more frequently.

TDK Rises: Final confrontation with Bane
ZSJL: Superman's resurrection
TB: Rescuing the flood victims
TF: Facilty escape and Batwing battle against the Kryptonians

Speaking of Batman in the daylight, those shots of Keaton in the snow remind me of some of the imagery in Bride of the Demon, which I rate as one of the best Ra's al Ghul stories.

(https://i.postimg.cc/MpDH7wsm/bride.png)

Obviously Batman looks best in the shadows, but it's always interesting to see him in such a strikingly different visual context.

I wonder if the idea of Supergirl landing in Russia instead of America was inspired by Red Son.

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 14:12I think the other problem is that this suit is made out of Urethane and not Latex wich sits differently on a person. CosplayChris did a pretty good video on the difference between the Justice League suit (Latex) and Re-shoots (Urethane)

I know very little about costume design. Presumably the Urethane is the reason the new costume sometimes looks more creased than the older suits?

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 15:58I don't like how it's shot--his face awkwardly in camera, jaw bursting out of the narrow cowl mouth-hole and taking too long to say it... I sure hope the final film edits it better. Since it's his first on-screen appearance for the purposes of the trailer, I'm assuming they let it drag out for the general audience to recognize who it is. It might not be such a lingering shot in the film itself, since we'll have already seen him as Bruce prior to that moment.

I prefer how it was edited in the TV spot, where they inserted a reaction shot of the two Barrys to break up the pause. At the 25 second mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0zdJOM_5Vg

Hopefully that's how it'll be edited in the finished film.

Urethane is not as flexible and can be pretty stiff.

Artsee1 has done a few different videos about urethane vs latest

https://youtu.be/9Q3swqzU0-w

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 15:51

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 11:05
I assume that shot was the only one that impressed you?

Nope. Now, I love seeing Keaton back in action. Like many of us around here, all roads lead to Keaton in terms of my fandom. He's the founder of the feast. Seeing him suit back up as Batman is cool by definition. I'm familiar with the criticisms/quibbles outlined by SN up there.

But in the end, it's still Keaton wearing the Batman suit. I refuse to criticize or complain about that.

Fair enough. Whatever happens in this movie, Keaton will always remain among my favourite Batmen and by far the most influential. I just wish the circumstances were different and his comeback would've been for something for ALL of us to celebrate.

I think you and I share a common ground with our grievances for this movie, both in terms of the premise and the whole Ezra saga. But make no mistake: as I said in my last post, why bother complaining in detail? I've exhausted my complaints and concerns at this point, and I've come to accept that nothing is going to change this film. There's no point to talk about it if it's not going to interest and excite me, so I'm going to move onto other topics.

Before I do, there's one more detail I want to share, from a critic and journalist in the industry with second hand info:

Quote from: Scott Menzel
I normally don't post about scoops but I know a few people who saw the original cut of #TheFlashMovie. They all told me that the original cut was incredible. Also, Gal Gadot, Ben Affleck, Michael Keaton, Henry Cavill and Jason Momoa were all in the Flash original cut.

https://www.twitter.com/ScottDMenzel/status/1624644121741905922

Will this result in calls to release the Muschietti cut in the near future? I doubt it.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo14VinX0AIs1PP?format=jpg&name=medium)

From looking at the 'Vault of Suits' image again, and upon closer inspection, I like that the (apparently) first Keaton batsuit takes inspiration from the original 1939 Kane/Finger iteration.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Foz00MYakAAQHiS?format=jpg&name=900x900)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Foz00MXaAAEahBe?format=jpg&name=large)

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 12:55
But on balance, I remain optimistic. I don't expect a masterpiece here, but I'm looking forward to seeing it. And I am thrilled to see Keaton back in action.

Yup. This is all far from, what I would consider, an appropriate scenario in Keats respectively returning at Batman, but I'm just going to enjoy what we're given here. To see, finally once again, Keaton back as Batman, was something of a day dream not all that long ago. Yet here we are.

Quote from: The Laughing FishIt might have been already discussed, but rumour has it Keaton's appearance in the ending has been removed, including Sasha Calle.

The thing about Keaton's fate is concerning, but hopefully, and I don't really care if it's even ADR'ed in super late in post-production ala "G.I. Joe: The Movie" style like they did with Duke, there's a line somewhere about Keaton having survived the final battle.

I honestly feel bad for Sasha Calle. Last night, I kinda found her endearing with the tweets she was sending out and interacting with the fans. If she's outright replaced in the future, it's really through no fault of her own if that does happen.

EDIT

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo3dQoKWYAcZ67g?format=jpg&name=large)

Pretty cool that it's confirmed the '66 West symbol is also used on the 1st suit. I like it even more now than I did before.  ;D

I wonder if this is a temp Gotham and not the final render?
(https://i.postimg.cc/RFrx1HWn/vlcsnap-2023-02-13-22h22m45s256.png)

Btw, the yellow oval is finally back. For the first time since 1995.

Can I get hallelujah for that? Because if you ask me, Batman's suit will ALWAYS look incomplete without the yellow oval.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 20:04
For anyone who's interested, here are the plot details that leaked last year. Many of the scenes in the trailer correspond with those described here. Don't click if you don't want to read spoilers.

The trailer just about lines up verbatim with the leaks. The movie's overall integrity seems to be largely intact and I think a director's cut would have superficial differences. Apparently Gal is still in the sequence she was always in, along with Batfleck. Cavill was meant to have a short appearance near the end. Nothing huge, more like a short tease after the main story had been told.

Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 15:12

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 13:15
Good stuff, Silver. It's also worth noting The Flash continues the trend of Batman appearing in daylight more frequently.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of that, but whatever. It is what it is. The movie looks pretty fun.

I think darker versions of Batman in daylight work best when it's all out war. A scenario where direct confrontation is necessary because it's all on the line with time ticking down. The sequences I listed before qualify on that standard. TB to a lesser degree, (Batman could've slinked away to leave rescuing to the crew already there) but that was about showing his humanity.

(https://i.postimg.cc/pThBqSh0/vlcsnap-2023-02-14-09h44m08s717.png)

Batwing looks like it still has guns

Speaking of the Batwing shot, I do get a kick out of the flying effects and the general way that Supergirl is shown in that trailer. There's a grace and fluidity to how her powers are depicted that's usually lacking in how Superman's powers are usually shown.

It's like Snyder preferred showing Superman fly like he was fired from a cannon while Muschietti (so far) seems to want it look like Supergirl is swimming/diving through the air.

Not saying one is better than the other. Just saying that I appreciate the variety.

some more Batwing. Seeing Batman fight against zod in the daylight as Batman is a nice stark difference to BVS

(https://i.postimg.cc/Dzz2YSkz/vlcsnap-2023-02-14-11h08m39s569.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/g0BY9GmH/vlcsnap-2023-02-14-11h08m48s768.png)

Sad to think we haven't had a Batwing that looked this cool since 1995 (if I'm being generous). We also haven't had a great Batcave like this since 1997 (again, generous).

Also, Batmobile, '97, generous. Blah, blah.

Point is, let the success of this movie (hopefully) herald a return to comic book style for Batman on film (not the website).

This is believed to be the moment where Keaton says, 'Alright let's get nuts.' I love how he looks kinda unhinged. He has that dangerous edge that he has to let out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo8Wl1iXgAAcGB8?format=jpg&name=large)

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 18:28
This is believed to be the moment where Keaton says, 'Alright let's get nuts.' I love how he looks kinda unhinged. He has that dangerous edge that he has to let out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo8Wl1iXgAAcGB8?format=jpg&name=large)

I hope the bleed from the green screen isn't so obvious in the finished film.

His hairpiece looks great.

Note the Wayne Enterprises emblem on his overalls.


The overalls evoke the grey ones he wore when repairing the Batmobile in Batman Returns.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 18:28
This is believed to be the moment where Keaton says, 'Alright let's get nuts.' I love how he looks kinda unhinged. He has that dangerous edge that he has to let out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo8Wl1iXgAAcGB8?format=jpg&name=large)

I'm relieved to see that image, especially after seeing how long his hair is during the retirement phase. Which I'm sure is done to convey the large time period he's locked away on his own. I'm also guessing this is when Batman decides to go to war against the Kryptonians in the desert.  He's well and truly back when he's making that aggressive type of face.

I also wonder if this is just a behind the scene photo of Keaton being back in the Batcave after decades.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 21:03

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 18:28
This is believed to be the moment where Keaton says, 'Alright let's get nuts.' I love how he looks kinda unhinged. He has that dangerous edge that he has to let out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo8Wl1iXgAAcGB8?format=jpg&name=large)

I'm relieved to see that image, especially after seeing how long his hair is during the retirement phase. Which I'm sure is done to convey the large time period he's locked away on his own. I'm also guessing this is when Batman decides to go to war against the Kryptonians in the desert.  He's well and truly back when he's making that aggressive type of face.

Right. My guess is that when Barry finds him he's all Howard Hughes, but then Barry tells Bruce about his mom, so Keaton goes to the bookcase and caresses the picture of his family to convey that Barry has reached him across the gulf, then he opens the vault, and shaves up and suits up.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 21:52

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 21:03

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 18:28
This is believed to be the moment where Keaton says, 'Alright let's get nuts.' I love how he looks kinda unhinged. He has that dangerous edge that he has to let out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo8Wl1iXgAAcGB8?format=jpg&name=large)

I'm relieved to see that image, especially after seeing how long his hair is during the retirement phase. Which I'm sure is done to convey the large time period he's locked away on his own. I'm also guessing this is when Batman decides to go to war against the Kryptonians in the desert.  He's well and truly back when he's making that aggressive type of face.

Right. My guess is that when Barry finds him he's all Howard Hughes, but then Barry tells Bruce about his mom, so Keaton goes to the bookcase and caresses the picture of his family to convey that Barry has reached him across the gulf, then he opens the vault, and shaves up and suits up.

Thank God that Barry's mom wasn't named Martha then. :D

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 21:03

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 18:28
This is believed to be the moment where Keaton says, 'Alright let's get nuts.' I love how he looks kinda unhinged. He has that dangerous edge that he has to let out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo8Wl1iXgAAcGB8?format=jpg&name=large)

I'm relieved to see that image, especially after seeing how long his hair is during the retirement phase. Which I'm sure is done to convey the large time period he's locked away on his own. I'm also guessing this is when Batman decides to go to war against the Kryptonians in the desert.  He's well and truly back when he's making that aggressive type of face.

I'm hoping it's this scene.


I want Bruce to yell "It's alive! It's alive!" as he fries Barry.

You're right, that's very possible. In that case perhaps Bruce has the Batwing on remote control and flicks the lever from the cave? In any case, Keaton looks like he means absolute business.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis
I'm hoping it's this scene.

(https://i.postimg.cc/9Q6X8LYp/1.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FK0r20PQ/2.png)

I want Bruce to yell "It's alive! It's alive!" as he fries Barry.

Good catch, and agreed, Silver.

Plus ... Isn't the "Let's get nuts" line reportedly said within Bruce's kitchen shortly after meeting the two Barry's?

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 03:25
You're right, that's very possible. In that case perhaps Bruce has the Batwing on remote control and flicks the lever from the cave? In any case, Keaton looks like he means absolute business.

The thing in the sky doesn't fit the Batwing's shape, it's a Bat logo shaped kite!

Bruce is all about that branding!

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 21:19
I also wonder if this is just a behind the scene photo of Keaton being back in the Batcave after decades.

It's a still from a sequence.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 21:52
Right. My guess is that when Barry finds him he's all Howard Hughes, but then Barry tells Bruce about his mom, so Keaton goes to the bookcase and caresses the picture of his family to convey that Barry has reached him across the gulf, then he opens the vault, and shaves up and suits up.

That's a good reason as any to wake Bruce up from his slumber. At the end of the day, Bruce is a wounded child frozen in time, wanting to prevent tragedy from befalling others. Imagine if we received a B89 flashback of Napier gunning down Martha and Thomas as he's touching their portrait.

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 04:25

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 03:25
You're right, that's very possible. In that case perhaps Bruce has the Batwing on remote control and flicks the lever from the cave? In any case, Keaton looks like he means absolute business.

The thing in the sky doesn't fit the Batwing's shape, it's a Bat logo shaped kite!

Bruce is all about that branding!

The leaks referenced that, and I automatically assumed the film went a different direction for the same purpose. A Bat kite is cheesy in a good way. It's like how you mentioned the batwing and batcave being more stylish, and colors saying you can't beat the yellow oval (he's right). This stuff, including the bookcase entrance, gives the character and universe more personality, and let's hope it continues.

Looks like there is a little more
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0rW1m9q/ezgif-1-5c92904a43.gif)

Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 03:55
Plus ... Isn't the "Let's get nuts" line reportedly said within Bruce's kitchen shortly after meeting the two Barry's?

That's what I've read. The leaks indicate he says the line before attacking the two Barrys when they first approach him. If true, this means we could get our first scene of Keaton's Bruce fighting out of costume.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 05:46

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 04:25

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 03:25
You're right, that's very possible. In that case perhaps Bruce has the Batwing on remote control and flicks the lever from the cave? In any case, Keaton looks like he means absolute business.

The thing in the sky doesn't fit the Batwing's shape, it's a Bat logo shaped kite!

Bruce is all about that branding!

The leaks referenced that, and I automatically assumed the film went a different direction for the same purpose. A Bat kite is cheesy in a good way. It's like how you mentioned the batwing and batcave being more stylish, and colors saying you can't beat the yellow oval (he's right). This stuff, including the bookcase entrance, gives the character and universe more personality, and let's hope it continues.

I love the fact he bothered to build it in the shape of a bat. Of course if this was West's Batman, he'd have gone as far as to stick a 'BAT KITE' label on it.

Here's a terrific fan-made TV spot focusing on Keaton. The studio should release an official TV spot exactly like this.


It's funny to reflect on all those times fans speculated about which villains Keaton might have faced in his third Batman film. Would it be the Riddler? Two-Face? Scarecrow? Mr Freeze? Did anyone, anywhere, in their wildest imagination, guess the villains would be General Zod and Black Flash? Maybe Nostradamus saw that coming, but I doubt anyone else did.

It's a pretty big step up in terms of threat, going from penguin commandoes with rockets strapped to their backs to a full blown alien invasion. But I'm sure our man's up to the challenge.

Another tid bit from the tv spot is that supposedly if you strain your eyes enough you can make out pictures of Alfred and Selina in the book case shot.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 12:55

My biggest concern is the script. I'm not a fan of the screenwriter's previous work (except Bumblebee, which was good), and I think we're in for a very jokey, sentimental and nostalgic screenplay in the vein of The Force Awakens. They already turned the "I'm Batman" line into a joke by having Barry faint after Keaton says it, and the leaks claim Bruce will also say the "let's get nuts" line at some point. Supposedly there's also a joke about him not being able to turn his head, which I'm not keen on. I expect this will be full of nostalgic throwbacks that make you smile the first time you watch the movie, but annoy you on repeated viewings.

But on balance, I remain optimistic. I don't expect a masterpiece here, but I'm looking forward to seeing it. And I am thrilled to see Keaton back in action.

Ugh, really? I'm fine with them using the "I'm Batman" line as in "Ok, you've convinced me to help you" but leave that other stuff out of it. Within the world of the Burton films the neck area was never addressed as some issue so I always assumed that within the reality of that world it's not a problem. Him addressing it in the movie is a fourth wall break moment where they're actually having him talk about an on set issue. Also, the whole "I can't turn my head in the Batsuit" issue is not exclusive to Keaton. Bale couldn't move it in Begins, Affleck couldn't move it in Justice League, and Pattinson barely moves his head in The Batman as well.

I hope it's not in the same vein of No Way Home. Part of the reason I didn't like that movie is because of how they treated some of the "legacy" characters. For example Tobey Maguire never felt like the Sam Raimi Peter Parker to me in that film. It felt like the writers didn't know how to write that character so they instead relied on the only thing they know which are old lines from the movies and memes. I hope that's not what this is, and I hope that Keaton was allowed some creative freedom like being adamant that Batman doesn't talk too much.

Putting that aside though, as an 89 fanboy I love some of the attention to detail. I like the battle damaged 89 suit being in the armory, him using the 89 Batarang, and having an updated Batwing. It's also nice to see where he stores his secondary vehicles.

Th Batcave seems to be its own thing, but it's taking inspiration from the 89 Cave as well.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 22:54
Ugh, really? I'm fine with them using the "I'm Batman" line as in "Ok, you've convinced me to help you" but leave that other stuff out of it. Within the world of the Burton films the neck area was never addressed as some issue so I always assumed that within the reality of that world it's not a problem. Him addressing it in the movie is a fourth wall break moment where they're actually having him talk about an on set issue. Also, the whole "I can't turn my head in the Batsuit" issue is not exclusive to Keaton. Bale couldn't move it in Begins, Affleck couldn't move it in Justice League, and Pattinson barely moves his head in The Batman as well.

I don't mind the B89 dialogue references from the point of view this is a victory lap for Keaton. I'm not sure the other cinematic Batman actors have lines that have seeped into the fanbase as much as those to be reused in the first place. I'm less keen on the head turning reference like both of you, but if it happens I'll pass judgement under the chosen circumstances. Barry can make a joke comment but Batman doesn't have to agree with him.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 22:54
I hope that Keaton was allowed some creative freedom like being adamant that Batman doesn't talk too much.

In the context of the film I don't think it's really possible to have Batman silent for a lot of the time. He's helping three other people and going into battle with them. I do think there's a way to retain his character's integrity, though. The facial expression when he's using the lever is a good example. His true nature is to be private, and that's reflected in long haired loner introduction. He just wants to be left alone. But circumstances require him to suit up again and work in a team. I'm inclined to say a subtle suicidal element could be there too, as in he has nothing left to lose so he's going all in with this new mission.

Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 22:54
Putting that aside though, as an 89 fanboy I love some of the attention to detail. I like the battle damaged 89 suit being in the armory, him using the 89 Batarang, and having an updated Batwing. It's also nice to see where he stores his secondary vehicles.

The Batwing storage area is perfect. Much like the waterfall exit for the Begins cave, but this makes more practical sense with an aerial vehicle.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 20:24
Another tid bit from the tv spot is that supposedly if you strain your eyes enough you can make out pictures of Alfred and Selina in the book case shot.

We're going to see Joker's laugh box too.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 15 Feb  2023, 20:24
Another tid bit from the tv spot is that supposedly if you strain your eyes enough you can make out pictures of Alfred and Selina in the book case shot.

Interesting.

If that's the case, hopefully those pictures will a bit more focused upon in the final film. Perhaps the photos are something Keaton is seen regarding as he slowly contemplates that despite his self imposed retirement, Batman must return...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo0YWo1XoAcFO22?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

Can't see it but the top left almost looks like the 40s Batman....or could it be Thomas Wayne in a Batsuit?!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sx4MWRgD/Untitled-1.jpg)

But, the most interesting this is the fact the button to access the vault is VERY similar to the 89 Belt buckle.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 03:24
I'm a happy fan at the moment, but have to admit the exclusion of Keaton from the ending makes me nervous about his ultimate fate. But right now, I like what I see.

Back to this - if they're going to leave the film with Keaton dead then they're going to have to do the same with Supergirl, who apparently gets her neck snapped in contrast to what Superman did to Zod. I'd be amazed if they allowed both characters to go out like that, regardless of what universe they're from. It would be a depressing end for what is overall meant to be a fun crowd pleaser. The original ending had both Supergirl and Keaton appearing to meet Barry, so the intention was to show them again after their supposed deaths in some fashion. Fingers crossed they keep that idea before the credits roll and we see the new final scene.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 17 Feb  2023, 12:54

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 03:24
I'm a happy fan at the moment, but have to admit the exclusion of Keaton from the ending makes me nervous about his ultimate fate. But right now, I like what I see.

Back to this - if they're going to leave the film with Keaton dead then they're going to have to do the same with Supergirl, who apparently gets her neck snapped in contrast to what Superman did to Zod. I'd be amazed if they allowed both characters to go out like that, regardless of what universe they're from. It would be a depressing end for what is overall meant to be a fun crowd pleaser. The original ending had both Supergirl and Keaton appearing to meet Barry, so the intention was to show them again after their supposed deaths in some fashion. Fingers crossed they keep that idea before the credits roll and we see the new final scene.

This is my great concern as well. I'm very nervous about that. We know that some reshoots were done. And...Knowing that Keaton is the major selling point of the film, I imagine that they will find away for the return to status quo to leave things right, perhaps acknowledging that those characters have been restored as part of their native universes.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 17 Feb  2023, 14:37

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 17 Feb  2023, 12:54

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 03:24
I'm a happy fan at the moment, but have to admit the exclusion of Keaton from the ending makes me nervous about his ultimate fate. But right now, I like what I see.

Back to this - if they're going to leave the film with Keaton dead then they're going to have to do the same with Supergirl, who apparently gets her neck snapped in contrast to what Superman did to Zod. I'd be amazed if they allowed both characters to go out like that, regardless of what universe they're from. It would be a depressing end for what is overall meant to be a fun crowd pleaser. The original ending had both Supergirl and Keaton appearing to meet Barry, so the intention was to show them again after their supposed deaths in some fashion. Fingers crossed they keep that idea before the credits roll and we see the new final scene.

This is my great concern as well. I'm very nervous about that. We know that some reshoots were done. And...Knowing that Keaton is the major selling point of the film, I imagine that they will find away for the return to status quo to leave things right, perhaps acknowledging that those characters have been restored as part of their native universes.

I very much hope so. Deleting Keaton and Supergirl from the ending would be about not teasing anything afterwards for them to keep their story contained. Having Clooney appear instead would be played for laughs, in a 'here we go again' manner.

What makes me nervous is their deaths are played as a fixed point in time, meaning they just die in different ways each time. In that case the only way to handle things would be to save them by default via a reset. I don't think they could change those desert scenes, and it'd clash with the movie's themes - it'd have to be new content afterwards. Something as simple as him in the cave or overlooking the city would do the job. He remembers what happened and is re-energized about life again following the experience.

I'd also love it if even though the two of them in actuality die during the desert battle, Keaton pretty much makes a victory possible through his actions, making his ultimate return not pointless.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 18:46

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 14 Feb  2023, 18:28
This is believed to be the moment where Keaton says, 'Alright let's get nuts.' I love how he looks kinda unhinged. He has that dangerous edge that he has to let out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo8Wl1iXgAAcGB8?format=jpg&name=large)

I hope the bleed from the green screen isn't so obvious in the finished film.

I've watched the trailer dozens of times now, and I've spotted some green screen bleed in certain shots. For example, look at the side of Barry's face and neck in the following images.


His features should really be backlit and shadowed by the daylight shining through the window behind him. Instead his face is evenly lit and there are noticeable traces of green spilling across his face and neck. They should try to fix this before the film's release.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 17 Feb  2023, 22:53

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 17 Feb  2023, 14:37

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 17 Feb  2023, 12:54

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Feb  2023, 03:24
I'm a happy fan at the moment, but have to admit the exclusion of Keaton from the ending makes me nervous about his ultimate fate. But right now, I like what I see.

Back to this - if they're going to leave the film with Keaton dead then they're going to have to do the same with Supergirl, who apparently gets her neck snapped in contrast to what Superman did to Zod. I'd be amazed if they allowed both characters to go out like that, regardless of what universe they're from. It would be a depressing end for what is overall meant to be a fun crowd pleaser. The original ending had both Supergirl and Keaton appearing to meet Barry, so the intention was to show them again after their supposed deaths in some fashion. Fingers crossed they keep that idea before the credits roll and we see the new final scene.

This is my great concern as well. I'm very nervous about that. We know that some reshoots were done. And...Knowing that Keaton is the major selling point of the film, I imagine that they will find away for the return to status quo to leave things right, perhaps acknowledging that those characters have been restored as part of their native universes.

I very much hope so. Deleting Keaton and Supergirl from the ending would be about not teasing anything afterwards for them to keep their story contained. Having Clooney appear instead would be played for laughs, in a 'here we go again' manner.

What makes me nervous is their deaths are played as a fixed point in time, meaning they just die in different ways each time. In that case the only way to handle things would be to save them by default via a reset. I don't think they could change those desert scenes, and it'd clash with the movie's themes - it'd have to be new content afterwards. Something as simple as him in the cave or overlooking the city would do the job. He remembers what happened and is re-energized about life again following the experience.

I'd also love it if even though the two of them in actuality die during the desert battle, Keaton pretty much makes a victory possible through his actions, making his ultimate return not pointless.

With regards to the final battle, one of the most iconic images from the Flashpoint comic is this.


I wonder if we'll get a version of this moment in the movie. Let's look at the following sequence of shots. We see a Kryptonian ship attacking soldiers on the ground.


We see the Batwing flying towards a Kryptonian ship and firing at it. Note that there are soldiers on the ground below, which indicates this could be the same ship from the previous shot.


We see a ship, possibly the same one, crashing in flames. We also see what appears to be Zod or another Kryptonian, armed with a retractable blade, moving towards it.


Now – and this is pure speculation on my part – could it be that Zod, Faora or another Kryptonian retaliates for the destruction of the ship by taking flight and attacking Keaton with that blade? Perhaps stabbing him with it and causing the Batwing to crash? There might then be a moment where Batman is lying in the burning wreckage like he did on the steps of the cathedral in B89, with everyone thinking he's dead, only for him to then return at the crucial moment and use his last burst of strength to stab Zod with that same Kryptonian blade.

None of this is mentioned in any of the leaks, so I'm not listing it as a spoiler. It's just how I imagine the scene might play out and I'm probably way off the mark. But if I'm right, this sequence would then be followed by the moment mentioned in the leaks where the Flash apologises for dragging Batman into the battle, and Bruce credits Barry with bringing him back.

Whether Keaton lives or dies, it will be in the service of the highest stakes possible. Kilmer, Clooney and Bale saved Gotham. West and Affleck saved the world. Keaton's about to help save the entire universe. Surely that will make him the most important live action Batman of all.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 18 Feb  2023, 14:53
Now – and this is pure speculation on my part – could it be that Zod, Faora or another Kryptonian retaliates for the destruction of the ship by taking flight and attacking Keaton with that blade? Perhaps stabbing him with it and causing the Batwing to crash? There might then be a moment where Batman is lying in the burning wreckage like he did on the steps of the cathedral in B89, with everyone thinking he's dead, only for him to then return at the crucial moment and use his last burst of strength to stab Zod with that same Kryptonian blade.

Very good guess and it would be awesome to see. The fate of Supergirl seems to be mirroring Man of Steel, so a play on Batman (1989) with The Joker/Batwing confrontation could indeed be possible. In this hypothetical scenario, I'd be hoping Zod brings the vehicle down and it's the crash that brings Keaton the majority of his damage, rather than being directly impaled with the blade. Zod could decide to leave the wreckage there, thinking the job is done, and then move on to Supergirl or simply keep smashing the military. Not long after that Batman crawls out, suit barely holding together, and the Flashpoint stabbing happens. What a fist pumping moment that would be.

With the news that the film will be screened at Cinema Con in April, I think we will be able (via spoilers) to find out what happens in the end early. I don't expect the entire film to leak, but I do expect to know the movie start to finish. We'll no for sure Keaton's fate. Here's hoping.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 27 Feb  2023, 22:14
With the news that the film will be screened at Cinema Con in April, I think we will be able (via spoilers) to find out what happens in the end early. I don't expect the entire film to leak, but I do expect to know the movie start to finish. We'll no for sure Keaton's fate. Here's hoping.

There are other things for spoilers to fill in. Afaik, no spoilers out there explain how Zod and co. ever came to Earth in the first place.

In MOS, Clark activating the scout ship is what alerted Zod to his presence. Essentially, he led the surviving Kryptonians to Earth. So, exactly why do the Kryptonians come to Earth in this Clarkless timeline?

I've pretty much avoided spoilers, but it's pretty easy to piece things together. lol

Imax 4k pro res version
https://archive.org/details/the-flash-official-imax-trailer-prores

There's some absolutely amazing shots there.

The Batwing coming down!  :o

Hearing our Bruce be that open is something special. I really dug the dialogue.

Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 25 Apr  2023, 19:06
There's some absolutely amazing shots there.

The Batwing coming down!  :o

The Batman stuff looks epic. I love the scene with Keaton using his cape to block the machine gun fire. That's exactly my vision for Batman in combat. His suit is armored but he'll do his best to avoid getting hit, and the cape is the obvious item to use.

The Japanese trailer contains extra footage.


Here's Barry wearing the modified Batman Returns costume.

Wow! That was a pretty epic trailer, and one that does a good job in hyping up the film. I couldn't help but smile, and actually get goosebumps, hearing Keaton deliver the "You want to get nuts? Let's get nuts!" line echoing B89. Also, his opening delivery speaking about his parents was very good and earnest. It immediately got my undivided attention to say the very least.

One thing about I can appreciate about this trailer, especially, is it's tone of urgency. Where, going purely off the trailer, the scenes that very much intend to create a dramatic mood, isn't just continually lessened by a Whedonesque quip, or per typical Gunn-style of comedy. Literally stopping everything in it's proverbial tracks, just in the hopes for a chuckle from the audience. It's a very tired shtick by this stage, and I remain cautiously optimistic that such instances are kept at a bare minimum with this film.

But yeah, Batkeats is, as always, on point in this trailer. It remains for me, very difficult to get invest in Barry's story line given that, you know, it's Ezra, but Sasha Calle has grown on me a little bit. I have no ill feelings towards her, and hope she winds up a good Supergirl in the end.

Admittedly, it's going to be bittersweet knowing this is Batfleck's final final bow as Batman, so I hope whatever little screen time he has, they really make it count. The rumors of a new 'vague' ending now being implemented, accompanying the numerous cameos which we pretty much already knew about, just sounds like classic Warners hedging their bets on what to do for the future. As they clearly are anticipating this film to be a financial success, and immediately turning around to s**tcan any theoretical good will for Gunn's slate, might not be in their best interest. We'll see of course, as DCEU plans with Warner Bros will consistently remain fluid, and to which James Gunn will find out soon enough (and possibly more sooner than later ... especially if the chatter about GOTG Vol 3 currently tracking to under perform have any validity to them).

From the trailer:

Batcave Setup: 1989 - 2023

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FumOLgdaMAEDx42?format=jpg&name=medium)

and the classic line.  ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FulaMcWaAAAdE70?format=jpg&name=large)

The Batwing being hung like a bat is a (possibly?) nice nod to Batman Forever

This is really special. Keaton's first day back on set as Batman:

Quote"When he arrived to the set, the Batcave was already finished," Andy Muschietti said. "He was lit and everything and he stayed like this for a while. I didn't want to interrupt him or anything, I just wanted him to just take it in. Who knows what was going on [in his head], but something was going on there. And it was funny, because at one point were the first thing that we shot where he's wearing the full suit, he's like, 'can you take a picture? It's for my grandson.'"

https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/the-flash-what-michael-keatons-batman-return-was-like-on-set/

A look inside the Batwing
(https://i.postimg.cc/Th3jY7Bv/vlcsnap-2023-04-27-19h55m43s259.png) (https://postimg.cc/Th3jY7Bv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QVYQBgr9/vlcsnap-2023-04-27-19h56m26s641.png) (https://postimg.cc/QVYQBgr9)

was watching a video on the new suits in the vault and (not sure if anyone esle picked up on it) but the two suits on the right

The aquatic suit might very well be this universes fight getting claw island and the winter suit could of been his universes fight against freeze freezing gotham.

I wonder if Flash going back only modifies the Schumacher films instead of erasing them?

According to folks who saw the film at CinemaCon, Barry theorizes that his hi-jinks in time mashed two previous worlds together--so technically, he's not going to Burton's original universe, but ends up in a timeline that merged Burton's with the Snyderverse. While it's ultimately just empty plot detail, this makes more sense to me--the idea that 30 years after Returns, things seemed to be exactly like Snyder's universe was, stylistically, a bit jarring.

This, I think, also explains why the distant shots of Keaton's Gotham don't particularly evoke Burton's style--it's not 1:1 the same universe. No doubt Burton's movies played out the same, but outside of the story details, it isn't perfectly beholden. This also allows the implication of pre-'89 Batsuits some wiggle room, as I find it hard to believe he had previous suits when having only been in his first months.

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Sat, 29 Apr  2023, 18:56
According to folks who saw the film at CinemaCon, Barry theorizes that his hi-jinks in time mashed two previous worlds together--so technically, he's not going to Burton's original universe, but ends up in a timeline that merged Burton's with the Snyderverse. While it's ultimately just empty plot detail, this makes more sense to me--the idea that 30 years after Returns, things seemed to be exactly like Snyder's universe was, stylistically, a bit jarring.

This, I think, also explains why the distant shots of Keaton's Gotham don't particularly evoke Burton's style--it's not 1:1 the same universe. No doubt Burton's movies played out the same, but outside of the story details, it isn't perfectly beholden. This also allows the implication of pre-'89 Batsuits some wiggle room, as I find it hard to believe he had previous suits when having only been in his first months.

Indeed, it's an important point. I believe the emotional beats of Bruce being retired are faithful to his evolution years after Returns, but the world we see Batman venture out to in The Flash wouldn't have been present in either B89 or BR. The Wayne Manor and cave from The Flash may look different but I think they're meant to be the same - it's what outside the confines of that setting that is distorted. I like to pretend Burton's Gotham is under a snow globe as a world all to itself.

Yeah, ultimately, it's just an offshoot universe. My preferred sequence of events will always be the original four films--I like Bruce's evolution as a character there. From a lonely, haunted and unsettled vigilante to an emotionally centered crimefighter with a new surrogate family. It very much mirrors the evolution of the character from the Golden to Bronze ages, and I appreciate that very much, as coincidental as it may have been.

I suppose in this new timeline... Robin never came around, Bruce never made peace with his parents' death (and may still blame himself for it), and has only become more bitter and more brooding. Alfred dies, severing all of Bruce's link to his remaining humanity. It's a gloomy path. But when the forces of evil rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the planet... he still answers the call. That's still a resonant story and if Bruce still dies in battle against Zod and the Kryptonians, at least he died fighting for the planet, and that's still an element I can appreciate.

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Sun, 30 Apr  2023, 15:00
Yeah, ultimately, it's just an offshoot universe. My preferred sequence of events will always be the original four films--I like Bruce's evolution as a character there. From a lonely, haunted and unsettled vigilante to an emotionally centered crimefighter with a new surrogate family. It very much mirrors the evolution of the character from the Golden to Bronze ages, and I appreciate that very much, as coincidental as it may have been.

For nostalgic reasons, I'll probably always feel that way too. One perspective is that the Schumacherverse timeline was how things originally played out, and maybe the new timeline is a divergent alternate reality created by the Flash damaging the multiverse. Clooney's cameo indicates the Burton and Schumacher films occupy separate realities, but maybe Clooney's appearance signifies the restoration of the original timeline. So instead of dying in the desert battle, Keaton's Batman now ages into the Clooney version from B&R. I doubt that's what the filmmakers intend, but if there's no coda revealing the status of Keaton's Batman after the Clooney cameo, and no plans for a Batman Beyond movie, then I see no reason why the Schumacherverse timeline couldn't be restored after The Flash.

It is confusing to consider all the different possible timelines spinning off from the Burton films. First of all, there was the syndicated comic that acted as a quasi-sequel to the 1989 movie and predated Batman Returns: https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?topic=706.msg26207#msg26207

There was Sunsoft's Batman: Return of the Joker (1991) game that was a sequel to the 1989 movie game, and which resurrected the Joker instead of using Catwoman or Penguin.


There were the Schumacher movies, which treated the Burton films as canonical in the same way as Superman Returns treated the Donner Superman films as canonical.

A version of Batman existed in Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, and he drove the same Batmobile as Keaton.


I agree with colors that the Schumacher Batman would have been a better fit tonally for L&C, but at the time this episode aired the Burton and Schumacher Batmen were considered one and the same.

You could argue that the OnStar Batman and Birds of Prey (2002) versions were also spinoffs from the Burton-Schumacher films, though you'd have to explain why the Joker was still alive in both timelines.


There's Earth-89 in the CW-verse.

Then there's the Earth-789 timeline in the comics, which places the Burton movies in the same universe as the Donner Superman films and ignores the Schumacher movies altogether.

Now The Flash presents us with a new timeline that ignores everything except B89 and BR.

Beyond that, there was also the deleted timeline we'll never see, featuring Batgirl and the original version of Aquaman II, where Keaton became the new DCEU Batman.

With so many conflicting timelines, it's up to fans to assemble their own head canon.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 30 Apr  2023, 17:59

A version of Batman existed in Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, and he drove the same Batmobile as Keaton.

(https://www.imcdb.org/i001006750.jpg)

If I recall, doesn't Cain mention Batman once during L&C?

Also, I pity that crook. Going up against Superman, and then what is Batman gonna do to you once he finds the Batmobile (which you know he will)?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 30 Apr  2023, 03:24Fair enough. I always thought Dean Cain's Superman, Schumacher's Batman and Shipp's Flash could comfortably exist in the same universe with one another. When Lois & Clark made reference to Batman, I assumed it was Schumacher's. And when Schumacher's Batman made reference to Superman, I assumed it was Cain's. And Shipp's Flash is largely compatible with both of them.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 30 Apr  2023, 17:59A version of Batman existed in Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, and he drove the same Batmobile as Keaton.

(https://www.imcdb.org/i001006750.jpg)

I agree with colors that the Schumacher Batman would have been a better fit tonally for L&C, but at the time this episode aired the Burton and Schumacher Batmen were considered one and the same.

That moment is part of my little conspiracy theory, actually. Between the Penguin stealing the Furst Batmobile in BR and the Lakes stealing it some time later, Batman decided it was time to go back to the drawing board. So, he designed the Gigeresque car from BF.

EDIT- Quoted my post in that other thread for context.

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Sun, 30 Apr  2023, 15:00
Yeah, ultimately, it's just an offshoot universe. My preferred sequence of events will always be the original four films--I like Bruce's evolution as a character there. From a lonely, haunted and unsettled vigilante to an emotionally centered crimefighter with a new surrogate family. It very much mirrors the evolution of the character from the Golden to Bronze ages, and I appreciate that very much, as coincidental as it may have been.

I prefer the idea Keaton has his own continuity, but I do like where the Schumacher series led. Robin and Batgirl join him, like the 66 show, and he becomes even more of a father figure as Alfred ages. It's a legitimate path to take. But in my mind these golden years shouldn't last, and become haunting memories of a career highpoint.

Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Sun, 30 Apr  2023, 15:00
I suppose in this new timeline... Robin never came around, Bruce never made peace with his parents' death (and may still blame himself for it), and has only become more bitter and more brooding. Alfred dies, severing all of Bruce's link to his remaining humanity. It's a gloomy path. But when the forces of evil rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the planet... he still answers the call.

Unless there's evidence to prove otherwise, I'll imagine Robin in the form of Wayans still happened but it's been a long time since then. This is the way I prefer Batman's main career coming to a close. The king of brooding is strong enough to take that level of social isolation and pain. But ala TDK Returns or Beyond he does come back for a period of time for whatever reason the story requires. It's my opinion that the Burton and Schumacher timelines are seperate, and when Barry runs back in time both will be restored, and Barry somehow jumped into the latter. If Adam West and other worlds are still intact I don't see why Burton's (or the B89/BR/BF/B&R timeline if that's what fans imagine) shouldn't be as well.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 30 Apr  2023, 18:32That moment is part of my little conspiracy theory, actually. Between the Penguin stealing the Furst Batmobile in BR and the Lakes stealing it some time later, Batman decided it was time to go back to the drawing board. So, he designed the Gigeresque car from BF.

One theory I had is that perhaps the Lakes never actually owned the Batmobile, but rather just the bits of bodywork that were discarded during the Batmissile transformation.


They could've mounted these authentic pieces on a replica chassis for display purposes.

I always wondered what happened to their collection after the police seized it. Was the Batmobile shipped back to Gotham and entrusted to Commissioner Gordon? Did Cain's Superman personally deliver it to stately Wayne Manor?

Here's an extended TV spot. It contains some extra footage, including a clip of the Batwing exiting the Batcave through a waterfall and a shot of Keaton throwing a Batarang.


Here's another extended TV spot. The coolest clip in this one is at the 36-second mark, where Keaton seemingly shoots a bad guy with the grapple gun and draws him into a kick. This is our first glimpse of Batman's updated fighting style.


And here's a new poster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLDgSdwax7Q

What're the odds on this reaction shot becoming a meme?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri,  5 May  2023, 09:02
Here's another extended TV spot. The coolest clip in this one is at the 36-second mark, where Keaton seemingly shoots a bad guy with the grapple gun and draws him into a kick. This is our first glimpse of Batman's updated fighting style.

Keaton's Batman in the original films was a precise warrior who mostly stood his ground in battle, and I still appreciate the aura that gave. What we see in this clip is the fully fledged veteran who has been fighting crime for decades, variant or not, and it's a thrill to see. The fact this is an amalgamated timeline makes the movie even more of a free hit, both in terms of the story and Keaton's real life return, in the sense anything goes before that world collapses around itself. It's like a tribute act while still showing something new and pushing the story forward. I wouldn't rule out another multiverse appearance in a future event film, but this really is Michael's last hurrah. The excitement is getting more real now there's nearly a month left to wait.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 23 May  2023, 10:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa943kpIJLQ

Here's a better version of the final trailer, without all the text.

Oh man, I really liked how they mixed Pink Floyd with the score. That sounded so good.

Also, did Affleck give you strong Conroy vibes at the begging when he said, "I need you hear NOW, Barry".