Batman-Online.com

What we know so far:

•   Cox and D'Onofrio are returning.

•   It'll have 18 episodes, which will make it the longest MCU show to date (not counting Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.).

•   They're aiming for a Spring 2024 release.

•   It will be part of the MCU's Phase 5.

The title is a little confusing. Born Again is arguably the greatest Daredevil comic story ever, but they already adapted it in season 3 of the Netflix show (I'll get around to posting a comic analysis of that at some point). The use of the 'Born Again' title here could be merely symbolic, to represent Daredevil being reborn on the screen, so to speak. It could also just be fan service, since that story is so beloved.

Alternatively, Marvel might be ignoring aspects of the Netflix show in favour of a retelling. I actually wouldn't mind this, as it would seal off the brilliance of the Netflix series in its own universe while giving us a spiritual continuation with the same cast members. That way if the new Daredevil content is bad, it won't retroactively tarnish the earlier show. This approach would also allow them to bring back deceased characters like Wesley and Ben Urich, and to do better and more faithful adaptations of villains that were mishandled in other Netflix shows (e.g. Nuke and Typhoid Mary).

My guess is that the new series will vaguely acknowledge the canonicity of the Netflixverse, while allowing itself the freedom to contradict it in places. I can't imagine this series will be just a straight up adaptation of Miller and Mazzucchelli's Born Again, since 18 episodes is far too long for that. But there have been other Born Again-like storylines in the comics, such as Ann Nocenti's Typhoid Mary arc. Perhaps this new series will combine some of those stories into a single epic narrative.

Here are some things on my wish list:

•   Keep it dark, spooky and gritty. Daredevil can be light and funny, and I don't mind them exploring that side of the character in other shows. But keep the light-hearted goofy Silver Age stuff in the She-Hulk and Spider-Man shows. For Echo and Born Again, keep it serious and dark.

•   Bring back Bullseye.

•   Bring back Joanne Whalley as Maggie and finish exploring the back story of why she abandoned Jack and Matt.

•   Focus on darker, scarier comic villains like Muse, Mister Fear, Death-Stalker and Hellspawn, perhaps even tapping into elements of supernatural horror like the second season of the Netflix show did.

•   Keep it TV-MA/R-rated.

•   Keep it apolitical. I know this is asking a lot from the modern entertainment industry, but there's no need for this show to be divisive. Know your audience and don't alienate them.

•   Make good use of the increased Disney+ budget, but not at the expense of the excellent action that characterised the Netflix show. Keep the one-shot hallway fights and amazing fight choreography and only use CG effects where absolutely necessary.

•   Don't focus too much on Frank Miller. They covered his work comprehensively in the Netflix show. Many other great writers have written Daredevil comics over the years, so draw from their work.

Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic.

Some impressive fan posters are already cropping up online.

Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio appeared on stage at D23 today with an updated title card for the new show.

(https://i.imgur.com/MqykVa2.jpg)

Filming is expected to occur next year.

As much as I doubt the show will be as good as the original Netflix show, I still hope it will turn out to be worthwhile. It's best to remain cautiously optimistic until proven otherwise. To me, Wilson Fisk's appearance in Hawkeye alone is proof enough we're dealing with different characters here. His strength may have amped up, but I still have a hard time he'd keep a low profile after the events of the Netflix show, never mind that he'd ever associate himself with those cartoonish Tracksuit Mafia gangsters. I've no doubt Cox's Daredevil appearance in She-Hulk will be a change in personality.

The MCU defenders will argue "let Matt Murdock be happy for once". I say if you want to go lighter, fine, but don't make embarassing, cringworthy jokes and dialogue. That nonsense ruined Thor, Hulk and even made Iron Man overstay his welcome, in my opinion. The die-hard Netflix Daredevil fans won't tolerate if Cox's return is sullied by the MCU comedy formula.

Here are some quotes from Cox concerning Born Again. Firstly, on whether or not this is the same Daredevil from the Netflixverse:

Quote"I don't know anything. I haven't seen a script... My feeling is, based on the title 'Born Again,' I think that the sense is it is a new beginning, it is going to be different, it is going to be totally different. It is going to be new stories, and new ideas."

And also:

Quote"It is a Season 1, it is not Season 4, so it is a whole new thing. Which I think is the way to go. If you are going to do it again, do it differently."

On how dark the new series will be:

Quote"I have no idea. I don't know that it will be any darker. Will it be less dark? What does dark even mean? Where is that tonal shift? There will be a tonal shift, I'm sure, because we're doing more episodes, it's a whole new deal, and we're now on a different platform. But, I don't know. I haven't read anything yet."

https://thedirect.com/article/daredevil-season-4-disney-plus

A trailer for Echo was shown at D23 that included brief clips of both Daredevil and Kingpin. Audio of the trailer has leaked online, but not the full thing.

It rly is sounding like this is a reboot using some of the same cast.

My enthusiasm for this thing is waning.

That separation might be a good thing, depending on how badly Marvel screws up Daredevil in the She-Hulk series. If it is a separate universe, then at least the original Netflix DD will be safe from contamination. If Marvel does a good job handling DD moving forward, then fans can always connect the new material with the old via headcanon.

Eiza Gonzalez has denied the rumours about her being cast as Elektra, as she is getting harassed online by fans.

https://ew.com/tv/eiza-gonzalez-denies-elektra-daredevil-rumors/

It sucks when some idiotic fans cross the line.

Elektra was quite the thrillseeker in the Netflix show. If the MCU use her in Born Again, they better not make her into a Valley girl.

https://bleedingfool.com/movies-tv-film/charlie-cox-confirms-daredevil-born-again-is-a-reboot
Charlie Cox Confirms 'Daredevil: Born Again' Mostly a Reboot

Well, there it is. The actual article doesn't bury the lead but the headline tells the tale.

This... is just irritating. Putting aside my outrage over deleting the perfectly good Netflix canon, any way you want to slice it, Born Again is a storyline that must be EARNED. The Netflix series riffed on Born Again and, honestly, I question how much even they earned it. But at least they had a season 01.

Using Born Again as a warm reboot... it's just low effort, frankly.

After the way the character was handled in She-Hulk, I'd be glad if this was a hard reboot. That way the definitive Daredevil adaptation from the Netflixverse remains unspoilt.

Daredevil season 4 should have come out in 2019. It should have featured Bullseye and the Larry Cranston Mister Fear as the main villains, and it should have ended on a cliffhanger with Matt paralysing Bullseye and Mister Fear exposing Daredevil's secret identity to the public.

Season 5 would have been delayed owing to Covid, so it probably would have come out in 2021. It should have been based on Bendis's Out storyline and Brubaker's The Devil in Cell Block D. Matt would have faced the legal ramifications of his vigilantism and been sent to prison, where he, Melvin Potter and Frank Castle would have faced off against Kingpin behind bars.

The show could have ended there, or else they could have made one final season to end the saga on a happier note. That would have come out in 2022 and wrapped the whole thing up.

I suspect many fans who are currently defending the character's portrayal in She-Hulk are in The Force Awakens stage of denial, where they're just so jazzed to see a beloved actor back in an iconic role that they're not thinking critically and are giving the writers a free pass. Once the excitement has settled down, and the initial thrill of seeing Charlie back in the costume has waned, I expect a lot more fans will start to appreciate just how bad She-Hulk's treatment of the character was.

I don't trust Marvel Studios to do Daredevil justice anymore. The MCU peaked years ago and has been in decline ever since. I enjoyed No Way Home, but that film was made by Sony Pictures and it's to Sony we should attribute its success. Marvel Studios' content has been consistently poor of late, with She-Hulk representing the nadir. It's possible the MCU could rebound. But if you count Blade (1998) or X-Men (2000) as the beginning of the Marvel movie trend, then the brand has dominated mainstream American cinema for over two decades now. I think it's had its moment in the sun. Now it's time for something different.

Regarding Born Again, Charlie Cox recently said:

Quote"Because of the tone of our show, I think there's a place for Daredevil to show up in Deadpool 3."

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/12/05/daredevil-born-again-star-charlie-cox-says-series-tone-could-allow-for-the-man-without-fear-to-cameo-in-deadpool-3/

Fans are interpreting this in two different ways. The optimistic interpretation is that by 'tone' he's referring to the level of violence, suggesting this will be a brutal hard-R show like the Netflix series. That'd be swell.

The pessimistic interpretation is that he's alluding to the series having a comedic tone similar to Deadpool, with Matt possibly breaking the fourth wall and speaking directly to the audience. If this is the case, then... sigh.  :(

Yeah, I'm in the pessimistic camp. From what we say in She Hulk, I think it's apparent what direction they're going.

According to The Hollywood Reporter, Jon Bernthal's returning as the Punisher: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-born-again-casts-jon-bernthal-punisher-1235342229/

The article also speculates that Elden Henson and Deborah Ann Woll are not expected to return. :(

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue,  7 Mar  2023, 20:24Jon Bernthal's returning as the Punisher

The incomprehensibility of this series continues.

If I don't trust Marvel Studios with Daredevil anymore (and I don't), I certainly don't trust them with the Punisher. If everything Marvel does these days has to be a gd Care Bears cartoon, then I don't see why they would try anything with the Punisher.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  7 Mar  2023, 23:13
The incomprehensibility of this series continues.

If I don't trust Marvel Studios with Daredevil anymore (and I don't), I certainly don't trust them with the Punisher. If everything Marvel does these days has to be a gd Care Bears cartoon, then I don't see why they would try anything with the Punisher.

Disappointing to hear that Henson and Woll haven't been asked to come back, and Foggy and Karen might not even be in this show. These are good supporting characters and were important in keeping Matt's morality and emotional state of mind intact. But if Daredevil's scenes in She-Hulk are anything to go by, then perhaps it's worth sparing them. They'd likely be turned into quippy, vapid characters anyway.

As for Bernthal and Punisher? The worst-kept secret is finally out. But I do think the Netflix show is going to look gold in comparison to whatever plans they have for him in the future.

Mark Millar speaks the truth.


If they're planning to bring Elden and Deborah back at a later time, that's one thing. If they're ditching them altogether and recasting their roles, then that's just senseless. Fingers crossed this rumour isn't true. But after how Disney and Marvel treated Daredevil in She-Hulk, nothing would shock me.

It seems likely that Henson and Woll were both willing to reprise their roles.

It seems unlikely that the Foggy and Karen characters will be written out of a Daredevil story altogether.

So, my guess is Woke Recasting in 5, 4, 3, 2...

That would be very weird if they did that. I would imagine that their characters just wont be in the show, but then again, it's Disney. Who knows?

I hope they don't recast them.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed,  8 Mar  2023, 22:07
So, my guess is Woke Recasting in 5, 4, 3, 2...

Ayelet Zurer will not return as Vanessa Fisk, Sandrine Holt will replace her. I only knew of Holt thanks to the last season of Better Call Saul.

James Gandlofini's son Michael is expected to appear in this show. The episode will be directed by Michael Cuesta, of Dexter fame.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-born-again-lands-director-1235346034/

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 11 Mar  2023, 01:07Ayelet Zurer will not return as Vanessa Fisk, Sandrine Holt will replace her. I only knew of Holt thanks to the last season of Better Call Saul.

Let's be realistic, her TV resumé is a hell of a lot more impressive than her movie resumé. If I had to guess, I'd say that Holt probably cost less to hire than Zurer.

As to DBA, am I the only one who's a little surprised it'll be 18 episodes? 8, 10 or 12 would've made sense. But 18? In today's world that seems... unusual. The optimist in me wants to believe that Marvel understands how important this storyline is and they're pulling no punches with fidelity to the source material. But, again, let's be realistic. Does that sound like Marvel in recent times?

Chris Brewster, who was Cox's stunt double on the Netflix shows and played a big role in the action side of things, has given a very worrying interview about Born Again. He's not involved with the new series, but he has some troubling insights. According to Brewster:

Quote"Marvel has told every person working on that show that they don't want Born Again to look anything like the Netflix Daredevil series.

Trust me, not only did I work on the show, I was one of the biggest fans of the show. I think that the Marvel Netflix Daredevil was a masterpiece.

I think that the casting was perfect. I think that every showrunner, every person who worked on that show, was a genius. It was an incredible experience and in my opinion, and like most people agree on, it was Marvel's best streaming show. I think that Charlie and Vincent absolutely crushed it as their characters. I think that every person who worked on the show absolutely nailed it.

I think that, now that the MCU has taken over the character, they are really, really hurting it.

If you watched She-Hulk, they turned Daredevil into a cartoon. It's all animated and it looks bad. I love CG to enhance real movement, but if you don't have any real movement, it just becomes a cartoon. It's just CG. There's no weight to it.

And what always made the action on Daredevil so good is that it was visceral. You felt what Charlie was feeling. Between his performance, and just being in there, in the action. And anything that you saw, we really did, you know. We had to put somebody on a wire. [When] We needed something to enhance the movement we would [use CG], but it was never a cartoon. It was live-action. And you will never match the energy that live-action has.

So I think you know, that She-Hulk was a massive step-down as far as the movement goes and the action. Echo isn't out yet but I've heard it's just as bad. I'd heard they were going to Batgirl it because they weren't happy with it, and now they're doing reshoots and they're planning on airing it – but I think that could also do with the fact that there's a strike, and there's not a lot of content right now, so they're like 'Well, we have it made already'.

Ultimately, Born Again, I had no doubt that they were gonna reach out to me. Charlie specifically requests me on everything, he always goes out of his way and fights for me to be there, and he asked them over and over to bring me in, and I never even got a phone call.

Ironically, nobody who worked on seasons one, two, or three, went back. They really, truly don't want it to be anything like the Marvel Netflix Daredevil. So, nobody that worked on the original series, other than the cast that they're bringing back, is coming back.

There were some truly, truly wonderful people who worked on that show, and I think they really added to the magic of that show, and I think that Marvel's making a big mistake. But what are you going to do?

https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/07/03/original-daredevil-stuntman-says-marvel-studios-told-every-person-working-on-that-show-that-they-dont-want-born-again-to-look-anything-like-the-netflix-series/

His comments about Echo gel with rumours I've been hearing for a while now. Supposedly the show's a disaster of She-Hulk proportions and Marvel's had to reshoot most of it and might even cut it down from eight episodes to just four or six.

I really hope the MCU Daredevil is a separate character from the Netflix version, because ever since She-Hulk his future has been looking increasingly bleak. They already created the perfect live action take on the Man Without Fear, with all the pieces in place for a successful continuation, and now they're screwing it up for no good reason.

I shall try being charitable by saying that quality appears to be taking a backseat to branding. By the look of things, Marvel is aiming for a consistent style across all their media. And if the Netflix stuff has to suffer because of that, so be it.

It should go without saying that I think this is a mistake. Because the Netflixverse was stronger than the Arrowverse during the latter's prime. The only real black sheep in the family seems to be Iron Fist. The other shows all have their fan followings. Especially Daredevil.

This is a mistake. And the Daredevil character will suffer because of this.

Say whatever you want about the 2003 film. But at least that film erred on the side of trying to honor the character. But the more news comes out about BA, the less it sounds like the MCU Daredevil will honor anything.

This truly is an exasperating situation.

The latest rumour is that Muse is going to appear in Born Again. He was on my list of villains I wanted to see in the Netflix show, and I was hoping they'd adapt parts of his debut story 'Dark Art' in season 5 or 6 (season 4 should've featured Bullseye and the Larry Cranston Mister Fear and been loosely based on the 'Out' storyline by Bendis and Maleev). But Muse is one of those sick disturbing villains that requires a TV-MA/hard R rating. He's a serial killer who turns his victims' corpses into twisted works of art and leaves them around New York for people to find. He creates paintings out of human blood and sculptures out of dismembered body parts.


Muse would've fit in perfectly with the dark gritty tone of the Netflix show, but I can't see him working in a goofy family-friendly Disney+ series inspired by the Mark Waid or Silver Age Daredevils. Not unless they change him beyond all recognition.

I wish they'd just let the Netflix team pick up where they'd left off. :(

If they're not going to go all the way with Muse (and let's just admit it, they won't), then I don't understand the decision to use the character at all.

Why not a character like Stilt-Man, who's been the butt of jokes in the comics for decades now? Rereading the first 12 or 15 issues of Silver Age Daredevil can be an uneven experience. But there are some villains in those issues that could easily lend themselves to the MCU tone.

But Muse? I just can't get my head around this decision. Why not give Freddy Krueger butter knives as fingers? Or put Q-tips on Pinhead's face? Or reimagine Jigsaw as a villain who tickles you with feathers if you make the wrong choice?

Why neuter a character that was intended to be dark and edgy?

DeKnight calls out Disney for their shady tricks for producing this soft reboot.
https://www.sportskeeda.com/pop-culture/daredevil-reboot-born-again-criticized-former-showrunner-steven-deknight-old-disney-scam

"It's an old Disney scam where they slightly rename a series to reset contract terms back to first season."

This... is interesting. And it adds up. I can't believe I didn't think about this myself. I chalked the soft reboot aspect to somebody wanting this incarnation of Daredevil to be more in tune with the MCU's house style. But DeKnight's explanation is probably a lot closer to the mark.

Born Again seems to have been delayed until the beginning of 2025. More casting details have emerged recently, including confirmation that Jon Bernthal's Punisher is appearing. Two female characters from the comics have also been confirmed. Nikki M. James is playing Kirsten McDuffie, who was the main love interest during Mark Waid's run. And Margarita Levieva is playing Heather Glenn, who was the principal love interest during the Miller/Janson run before Denny O'Neil killed her off.


Arty Roushan is playing Buck Cashman, better known as the comic villain Bullet. In the comics Bullet is meant to be 6'11 and 390lbs. He's literally bigger than Bane.


And this is who they've cast to play him in the TV show.


It could be one of those situations where they take a character's name from the comics without really adapting the character himself. Or perhaps they're going with a CGI motion capture approach.

The cast list also includes a female character named 'BB Urich' who is presumably a relative of Ben Urich, or else a gender swapped reimagining of him. And Clark Johnson is playing someone called Cherry. This might be the corrupt politician Randolph Cherry who featured during Frank Miller's run, but if so that character already appeared in the first season of the Netflix series played by a different actor. So this would be another role that's been recast.

Looks like they're resetting. Yikes!

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-marvel-disney-1235614518/ (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-marvel-disney-1235614518/)

The problem with this project is that it's hard to tell if Marvel is doing things this way out of apathy, spite or a sincere desire to reboot using some of the original cast.

Kind of says a lot about the state of things that their agenda isn't clearer.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 14 Oct  2023, 20:50The problem with this project is that it's hard to tell if Marvel is doing things this way out of apathy, spite or a sincere desire to reboot using some of the original cast.

Kind of says a lot about the state of things that their agenda isn't clearer.

If the Echo show stays true to the trailer that was released last week, there may be hope for Born Again. The Echo trailer resembles a lot more like Netflix Daredevil than either Hawkeye or She-Hulk. It's brooding, violent, and heavy, as it shows Kingpin robbing Echo of her innocence as a child and becoming a bad influence on her ever since. If the sudden overhaul of Born Again results in a more mature tone then I'm all for it.

With The Marvels bombing even harder than The Flash over the weekend, I expect the MCU to start making cancellations on projects that haven't started filming yet. Despite announcing delays to 2025, I predict the Blade reboot and Thunderbolts will be scrapped, and all of the other underperforming Disney Plus shows, i.e. Ms Marvel and She-Hulk, will get cancelled. I don't even think Oscar Isaac is coming back as Moon Knight because his show had less streaming views than She-Hulk.

I don't believe Disney will follow WBD's footsteps in writing off the next Captain America, so Brave New World should be safe for release. But I did read today that the writer for Avengers: The Kang Dynasty has been fired and now there is a rumour going around Kang the Conqueror will be scrapped completely because of the controversy surrounding Jonathan Majors. Next year is Echo and Deadpool 3 only, but if Echo is a success and Deadpool 3 underwhelms to the masses then maybe there's a greater drive to make Born Again stay true to its Netflix predecessor.

Whatever happens, and as you already pointed out in another thread, you can't make expensive superhero stuff anymore, so we should expect the projects to be smaller in scale going forward.

A new rumour just broke out claiming Deborah Ann Woll and Elden Henson are coming back as Karen Page and Foggy after all.

Great news if it's true.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat,  7 Oct  2023, 10:14Born Again seems to have been delayed until the beginning of 2025

What I keep hearing is that the show is being "retooled" in some way. The rumors range from minor reshoots to the writers room committee-banging the entire series, going back to square zero and rebuilding everything from the ground up.

Until BA gets released, I think there's always going to be a part of me that hopes we can somehow regain the heights of Netflix's glory days. And it looks like there could be good reasons to maintain that hope.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 13 Jan  2024, 17:36What I keep hearing is that the show is being "retooled" in some way. The rumors range from minor reshoots to the writers room committee-banging the entire series, going back to square zero and rebuilding everything from the ground up.

I suspect/hope the latter scenario is true. It sounds like Marvel Studios is finally waking up to the negative consensus surrounding their Disney+ shows. Until now they've taken the goodwill generated by the Netflix show for granted. They've struck out twice with She-Hulk and Echo. Born Again is their last chance to recapture the magic of the classic series. If they drop the ball again, they might as well just do a hard reboot. I think Cox is definitive in the role and deserves better treatment by the studio, but there are only so many times you can degrade or marginalise his version of the character to prop up lesser heroes before his value is squandered altogether.

Born Again is their last chance to salvage a truly great version of Daredevil. I hope Marvel realises this and is taking the project more seriously now.

So, the news (apparently official announcement) is She-Hulk isn't getting a second season. In light of how the show treated Daredevil (and I guess we can throw Bruce Banner in as well), that can only be good news.

I only mention that to float the possibility that between She-Hulk's cancellation and the rumored retooling that BA is undergoing, if someone at Marvel isn't trying to things back on track.

That could be wishful thinking. But if it's true, I do wonder if it's even possible for the MCU to return to the glory days. Because it seems like the public has organically moved on from comic book films now.

Still, I tend to favor anything that presents Daredevil in a faithful, respectful, flattering light. Even if nothing else good comes from MCU trying to reassert some quality control, I'm prepared to forgive and forget if more quality Daredevil material is on the way.

A number of sites are claiming Wilson Bethel is returning as Bullseye: https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/daredevil-born-again-bullseye-wilson-bethel-cast-return-reboot-confirmed/

It's also being reported that the number of episodes is being reduced from 18 to around 13. If all these reports are true, it sounds like Marvel is basically turning this into season four of the Netflix show. Which is what fans have been saying they should do for the past five years.

Filming is underway, and location pics have revealed some encouraging news. The office of Nelson, Murdock and Page, the law firm established in season three of the Netflix series, has been sighted. It looks like the rumours about Foggy and Karen returning were true. :)


The retooling of this show could prove to be one of the greatest recoveries in the history of comic book adaptations. It's sounding more and more like a continuation of the Netflixverse, which indicates they're on the right track.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 13 Jan  2024, 17:36Until BA gets released, I think there's always going to be a part of me that hopes we can somehow regain the heights of Netflix's glory days. And it looks like there could be good reasons to maintain that hope.

I stand by this. Now more than ever.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 26 Jan  2024, 23:05

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 13 Jan  2024, 17:36Until BA gets released, I think there's always going to be a part of me that hopes we can somehow regain the heights of Netflix's glory days. And it looks like there could be good reasons to maintain that hope.

I stand by this. Now more than ever.

However else we might feel about the MCU, I think we're all rooting for this series to be great. If Marvel could deliver something on a par with the Netflix show – even if it's just one season – I'd be content.

Meanwhile fans on Twitter think they've spotted (possible SPOILERS) Muse on location: https://twitter.com/DDevilUpdates/status/1751087661949845524

That particular villain has always been on my wish list for the Cox Daredevil, along with Mister Fear and Typhoid Mary. We're not likely to get Typhoid after they used her in Iron Fist season 2, but Mister Fear remains a possibility.

I also want to see Bullseye as a full-on psycho assassin out to prove he's better than Daredevil. Season 3 offered a solid origin story for Dex, and in the last few episodes he was acting very much like classic comic book Bullseye. But now I want him to return, stronger and more evil than ever, preferably sporting some variation of his classic comic book costume.

I also hope they bring back Chris Brewster and the rest of the stunt team from the Netflix show. Those guys were great.

Tinfoil hat time

I ventured in some other thread (or maybe this one?) that a leaked fight scene between Echo and Daredevil had all the earmarks of an approved "unauthorized leak". In other words, a strategic leak by the production intended to build buzz.

I reassert that here. The last three pics have the blurry look of something taken from a zoomed in iPhone. But that first pic sure looks good. Looks better than it probably should if it was a real spy pic.

Which leads me to think that someone high up the food chain wants the fans talking. What we can see of the light, shadow, atmosphere and wardrobe/color design sure give positive impressions.

This could be a very instance of an IP unfvvving itself before too much damage was done.

Yes, it's possible that BA could be more lol so random pap that's stained the rest of the MCU. But those pics reinforce the hope that a lot of Daredevil fans have right now.

Here are some pics of Charlie as Matt with Margarita Levieva as Heather Glenn. Looks like she and Matt are an item, as they were during the classic Miller/Janson run. Where does that leave Karen?


Will Heather meet the same unhappy fate she did in the comics? By today's standards, the 616 Matt's treatment of Heather would probably be considered toxic and abusive. He discouraged her attempts to forge her own career as a businesswoman in order to curb her independence so she'd marry him, then neglected her emotional needs when she was suicidally depressed. Will they go that route in the TV show?

I'm also wondering how Kirsten McDuffie is going to fit into this series. That's three comic book love interests appearing in one season. I'm guessing Matt will be in a current relationship with Heather, which will go badly and possibly end in tragedy. Karen will be his business partner, but secretly jealous of Heather. Kirsten will probably be a colleague of Matt's and a platonic friend. Ultimately I think he'll end up with Karen.

Here are some pics of D'Onofrio as Fisk.


And here's Michael Gandolfini, son of James Gandolfini, playing a character named Daniel Blade.


Rumour has it this character is the TV show's answer to Byron 'Butch' Fisk, Kingpin's illegitimate son from Chip Zdarsky's run. If that's true, and the rumours of Muse appearing are also true, then it sounds like the series could be drawing quite a bit from Zdarsky's run. I'd consider that a good sign.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu,  1 Feb  2024, 17:16Where does that leave Karen?

Shouldn't we have been asking that question when Daredevil did his walk of shame in She-Hulk?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu,  1 Feb  2024, 18:07

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu,  1 Feb  2024, 17:16Where does that leave Karen?

Shouldn't we have been asking that question when Daredevil did his walk of shame in She-Hulk?

According to my headcanon that was an alternate Daredevil from Earth-304, a completely different character. I'm ok with accepting Charlie's cameos from No Way Home and Echo as part of the Netflixverse canon. But She-Hulk? No. Never.

Online sources are reporting this is Bullseye's costume. If so, it's taking its cues from Marco Checchetto's design from Chip Zdarsky's run.


I'm happy with this, just so long as the bullseye target symbol is referenced somewhere. Like if he has the target tattooed or carved into his forehead under the balaclava, or if he gets it painted on his mask later on.


Here's our first look at Daredevil's new costume, worn here by Charlie's stunt double. It looks more or less the same as the one from the Netflix show except the colour is more vibrant. The amount of red also seems to have been increased and the amount of black reduced. I like it. The only thing missing is the 'DD' symbol, but at this point I don't think we're ever going to get that.


The crew were shooting a fight scene between Daredevil and Bullseye on the streets of New York.


I really like the use of lighting and smoke in these pics. Here are some more images of Matt, Foggy and Karen outside Josie's Bar.


On a purely visual level, this all looks great to me. I just hope the writing's good.

I also hope Foggy and Karen aren't getting assassinated in this scene.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue,  6 Feb  2024, 10:59I also hope Foggy and Karen aren't getting assassinated in this scene.

After those pics you just posted, that's pretty much the only thing that could tamp down my hope.

Great pics, thank you for posting them. And like you, I'm liking that new Daredevil outfit.

SPOILERS ahead.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  6 Feb  2024, 12:37After those pics you just posted, that's pretty much the only thing that could tamp down my hope.

Uh-oh...


According to plot leaks, (SPOILERS) this is a prologue scene taking place soon after the Netflix show. Bullseye kills Foggy (that's likely his blood on Karen's face) and Karen leaves New York. The story then leaps forward several years for the main series, where Matt is working with a new cast of characters. If this is true, then Foggy's getting the Terminator: Dark Fate treatment. Unless it later turns out that he survived and merely pretended to be dead so Bullseye wouldn't come after him again. That would echo what happened in the comics during Ed Brubaker's 'The Devil Cell Block D' storyline, where Foggy was seemingly murdered only to later turn up alive in a witness protection system. Hopefully that's the case here and both he and Karen will return later in the series.

It's also rumoured that this is merely Bullseye's proto-costume and that he gets a more traditional costume towards the end of the series.


One of my main concerns is the potential for the sort of needlessly divisive political themes that have hampered fans' enjoyment of earlier Disney+ Marvel shows. Supposedly there's a subplot about the Punisher hunting down police officers who wear his skull emblem. And the whole Mayor Fisk storyline could be used as a lazy metaphor for any real life politician the writers happen to dislike. If Fisk says some variation of 'Make New York great again' or 'New York is where woke comes to die' then half the audience will switch off and review bomb it. And none of these things need to be in a Daredevil show anyway. It should be an apolitical action thriller that everyone can enjoy. I hope Marvel and Disney learn from their past mistakes and avoid these pitfalls.

Okay, yes, this tamps down my excitement a bit.

Still, I'm trying to rationalize all of this. The rumor is that BA was originally going to be something else completely. Something more in line with Daredevil's depiction in She-Hulk. For whatever reason, the show has been "retooled" (which is to say, committee-banged) and, among other things, Foggy and Karen will return.

So, your spoiler story makes sense. The producers probably don't want to rewrite/reshoot the entire series. So, I am assuming that Karen and Foggy will appear in the first episode and miraculously return for the final episode to position them for whatever season comes next.

Am I being too optimistic? Is what I just wrote a cope?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri,  9 Feb  2024, 13:17Am I being too optimistic? Is what I just wrote a cope?

If it's copium, I'll take a dose. I've heard they're trying to incorporate as much of the footage they shot last year into the new show. If they filmed the first few episodes back in 2023, as reports indicate, then wouldn't they have also shot this prologue scene from the beginning of the series? Unless Deborah and Elden weren't originally meant to appear, and the plot point about Foggy's death and Karen's departure was originally just back story. If that's the case, and they've now brought Deb and Elden back owing to fan demand, then it's feasible they'll also write them into later episodes that have yet to be shot.

We need some better pictures of Foggy after he's been gunned down. If the bullet hit him in the chest, he could still be alive. But if it's a clean headshot... :(

Meanwhile here are some pics of Charlie wearing his new costume. Those markers on his suit suggest digital effects work. Possibly areas of the costume that'll get damaged by Bullseye's projectiles?


The following link leads to a page with some good fight scene footage captured on social media. One clip shows Daredevil and Bullseye tumbling through the window into Josie's. The other clip shows them fighting inside the bar. In some of the footage it's clearly Charlie doing the fighting himself.

https://comicbookmovie.com/tv/marvel/daredevil/daredevil-and-bullseye-beat-the-hell-out-of-each-other-in-latest-born-again-set-videos-a209274#gs.4srevv

I can't wait to see this brawl. Bullseye should have his Adamantium-laced bones now, which will make him even harder to put down.

More pics of Charlie in the suit.


And here's an awesome clip of Daredevil swinging into action using his billy club cable, all done for real with practical effects wirework.


This is one thing we didn't see enough of in the Netflix show, so more grapple cable action is welcome.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri,  9 Feb  2024, 12:59SPOILERS ahead.

It's also rumoured that this is merely Bullseye's proto-costume and that he gets a more traditional costume towards the end of the series.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFvmrHKWIAAJdXR?format=jpg&name=large)

That's fortunate. I mean, it's a sad state of affairs when cosplayers and fan movies do a better job at keeping the visual flare these comic book characters have, rather than shy away from it.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFwKBb1akAM2Q9e?format=jpg&name=360x360)

Was beginning to think Bullseye was going to get the Batroc the Leaper treatment.

Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 11 Feb  2024, 01:00(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFwKBb1akAM2Q9e?format=jpg&name=360x360)

I don't know if we'll get anything that comic accurate in Born Again, but I'd love it if we did. I've always liked the visual dynamic between Daredevil and Bullseye in the comics. They're a similar height and build, evenly matched, with similar looking costumes. It just looks so cool whenever they fight.


There's really no excuse not to have Bullseye don his classic suit in the new show. They've got a massive budget by all accounts, and if anything Bullseye's costume should be easier to translate into live action than Daredevil's. It's similar to one of the all-black batsuits, minus the pointy ears and cape, with some white markings painted on and a gun strapped to his thigh. It could look great in live action.

I really like how Cox's new costume looks in these early pics. It's probably the best live action DD costume we've seen so far. If they can do as good a job with Bullseye, I'll be thrilled.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri,  9 Feb  2024, 23:16Meanwhile here are some pics of Charlie wearing his new costume. Those markers on his suit suggest digital effects work. Possibly areas of the costume that'll get damaged by Bullseye's projectiles?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFy3jqMXYAAHn8L?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFy3jqNXwAAtZ2Y?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFy5_yJXEAEhxO7?format=jpg&name=large)

I'd like to take another look at these images if I may.

Obviously, Matt Murdock has a long and established history of being Catholic. Certainly, the Netflix shows made no effort at all to shy away from that fact.

If those markers are for visual effects work and if they represent wounds inflicted by Bullseye (or anyone else), then their placement is very suggestive. Specifically, the crucifixion. Two wounds on the wrist and one on the side. Those are probably Christ's most well known wounds during the crucifixion.

The marker over the heart is actually what convinces me that the markers/injuries are an allusion to the Passion. Many modern day doctors have suggested that Christ's ultimate cause of death was a ruptured heart. The posture that tradition teaches that Christ was attached to the cross combined with (likely) dehydration would've very likely resulted in heart failure.

Obviously, that's absolute conjecture and it's sort of unprovable. Still, it's widely accepted as fact even tho, to my recollection, scripture doesn't directly mention cardiac arrest, ruptured ventricles or anything else.

The reason I'm mentioning this at all is because Christians in general and Catholics in particular obviously attach a gigantic level of importance and significance to Christ's crucifixion. And as per the above, Catholicism is a central aspect of Murdock's moral universe.

Plus, the entire born again aspect of the story has metaphorical significance to Murdock in general and this storyline in particular. Born again is obviously Christian terminology. But Murdock is also symbolically born again in the story.

What better way to bring that across than by metaphorically "crucifying" Murdock, presumably at the start of the storyline? Giving him approximations of Christ's own wounds has obvious symbolic power in the story as well as to Murdock's arc in the story.

I say all of the above to say those injuries are yet another reason to be hopeful about this season. Because it looks to me like someone REALLY had their thinking cap on and added peculiarly Catholic doctrines/symbolism to this story about a Catholic character.

Maybe everyone else already noticed this and I'm just spinning my wheels. But if we're passing out copium prescriptions, well, here's your daily dose then.

I hadn't considered the significance of the placement of the wounds, but that would be in keeping with the allegorical subtext of Miller and Mazzucchelli's original comic. When they adapted plot points from Born Again in the third season of the Netflix show, they made it more of a Job allegory. But the original book heavily referenced the Passion.

Matt is betrayed by someone close to him who sells him out to his enemy. Instead of pieces of silver, Karen sells him out for a fix of heroin. Judas Iscariot killed himself after he betrayed Jesus, and Karen tries to kill herself after betraying Matt.

Matt is falsely accused of a crime and publicly defamed. The scene where Kingpin beats him to a bloody pulp could be seen as a metaphor for the scourging.

The Stations of the Cross depict Christ falling three times on his way to Calvary. Matt falls three times in Daredevil V1 #229 as he's staggering around New York. Firstly when he's hit by a car.


Secondly when he's knifed by Turk. This also evokes Christ being pierced with the spear.


And thirdly when he collapses in Fogwell's Gym.


This leads to an image evoking the Pieta, with Matt's mother cradling his body as Mary held Jesus after the crucifixion.


And of course we have the themes of resurrection, forgiveness, hope, redemption and virtuous suffering. I suppose you could interpret the empty taxi cab as a metaphor for the empty tomb.

Much as I love The Dark Knight Returns, Born Again edges it out for me as Miller's best work. It blows my mind that he wrote both of those books in the same year. Say what you will about Miller's later work – and he's certainly produced his share of rubbish – but back in his prime he was an outstanding writer. I consider Born Again to be his deepest and most layered work, not to mention the single best graphic novel Marvel ever published.

Born Again also established the superb team of Miller and Mazzucchelli, who the following year reunited to create Batman: Year One. Both books were edited Denny O'Neil, who also edited The Dark Knight Returns. That was a legendary time for superhero comics.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 11 Feb  2024, 15:29I really like how Cox's new costume looks in these early pics. It's probably the best live action DD costume we've seen so far. If they can do as good a job with Bullseye, I'll be thrilled.

I agree about it being the best. But I don't have a problem with most of the Daredevil suits we've seen in live action.

I even like Affleck's. It's very much a product of its time, sure. But it has a lot of charm in it for me.

The only outfit that I've come to hold in low regard is the gold/red suit from She-Hulk. And I've been trying to figure out if I dislike the aesthetic or if the She-Hulk stink is simply ruining it for me. Tough to say.

But this BA suit looks great. The black trim offsets the bright red in an effective way. I'm no costume designer. But in some other thread about an early Nineties live action Daredevil show, I suggested the possibility of a red/black costume because I thought those two colors would blend well with each other. So far, the BA suit is bolstering my case.

The first nine episodes of Born Again will premiere in March 2025. A new logo has been revealed.


A teaser trailer was shown at the Disney upfront event in New York. The footage hasn't been released to the public yet, but there are descriptions online. D'Onofrio and Cox were there to promote the series.

DBA trailer from D23.

https://x.com/strkcntrst/status/1822129698576691697

DBA trailer just got uploaded an hour ago. So, I guess 09:30am? And it already has 1.1 million views.

Anyway, here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xALolZzhSM

The cinematography is impressive and the production values appear to be high quality.

Charlie and Vincent are back. They're definitive in these roles and it's great to see them returning.

Muse. I've always said Muse would fit perfectly with the dark tone of the Netflix show, and his costume here looks comic accurate. The shots of him and Daredevil fighting are the highlight of the trailer for me.


Marvel Studios has indicated they've learnt from their mistakes and performed a massive course correction with this show. Cox has said that the current version is better than the original version they were filming.

They're clearly making an effort to connect this with the Netflix show, effectively making it season 4 of that saga.

I'm glad they're continuing the Bullseye storyline.

Punisher.


It's still Disney. It's still Marvel Studios. We're halfway through the 2020s, and so far their only hits this decade have been No Way Home and Deadpool 3. The former capitalised on nostalgia for the Raimi and Webb Spider-Man films, while the latter capitalised on nostalgia for the Fox X-Men universe and pre-MCU Marvel movies. Without the nostalgia factor, neither of those films would've been as successful. Everything else Marvel has produced this decade has underwhelmed or outright failed.

The production was a mess. They started shooting one series that was not connected to the Netflix show, then halted production, then started shooting a totally different series that was connected to the Netflix show. Yet they're still incorporating much of the original footage from the first shoot into the finished series. The flawed production strategies of Marvel Disney+ shows are well documented, and this series has a high probability of falling victim to the same problems. A smoother production, guided by a clearer creative vision from the get go, would've been more encouraging.

The Mayor Fisk storyline. We'll see how this pans out, but if the writers use this as an obvious blunt metaphor to attack a certain real life politician who's about to return to office, it'll add a needless note of division that'll limit the show's success and guarantee review bombing/hostility from a sizeable portion of the potential audience.

Where's Maggie? If this is continuing the unresolved storylines from the Netflix show, shouldn't Maggie make an appearance? Maybe she will.

The title. Born Again. They already adapted Born Again in the third season of the Netflix show, and they did a good job of it. Nothing in this trailer evokes the Born Again comic storyline. If they wanted to name it after a comic, why not call it Daredevil: The Man Without Fear? Or are they really going to repeat the Born Again storyline and retread ground covered in the third season of the Netflix series?


Karen and Foggy returning. I'm glad to see the actors reprise their roles, but my fear is that they're only bringing Elden back to kill him off in the prologue. If his death at the hands of Bullseye turns out to be a ruse, I can accept that. There have been similar storylines in the comics. But if they really are killing off Foggy...

If DBA ends up being a worthy follow-up to the Netflix seasons, then I truly hope all those Fandom Menace grifters will loudly sing its praises.

It LOOKS like Marvel heard our complaints about how Cox's Daredevil was treated in She-Hulk and course-corrected. They need to be rewarded for course-correcting.

Razorfist is chiming in too. In his usual angry way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIPl30YvuU

The latest issue of SFX features Daredevil on the cover.


Meanwhile a preview has been released for the Your Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man animated series that debuts this month. The video offers a brief glimpse of Charlie Cox's performance as a new animated version of Daredevil (around the 1:00-1:10 mark).


I really need Born Again to be good. I'm tired of feeling cynical and pessimistic about modern entertainment. I know some people enjoy hate-watching things, and the resulting reviews can admittedly be funny and entertaining. But I'm not a hate-watcher. I want to get excited about movies and TV shows again. I'd love it if Born Again and the new Superman movie both turned out to be good so we could have fun discussing and analysing them and getting hyped speculating about which villains and stories will be adapted next. That would be swell.

New promo art.

Charlie Cox has penned a foreword to the latest edition of Miller and Mazzucchelli's Born Again graphic novel. I won't copy and paste the whole thing here, but you can read it over at Collider: https://collider.com/charlie-cox-foreword-daredevil-born-again-comic-images/

It reinforces two things we already knew about Cox: firstly, that he knows his Daredevil comics a lot better than most actors know the source material they're adapting; and secondly, that he has an excellent understanding of the character's complexities and what makes him so fascinating.

We were incredibly lucky to get both Charlie and Vincent in these roles. I'm not sure I can think of another comic adaptation where the hero and villain were both so perfectly cast as to definitively embody their characters.

Matthew Lillard has been cast in season 2: https://deadline.com/2025/02/daredevil-born-again-season-2-casts-matthew-lillard-1236305219/

Interestingly, Lillard is also set to reprise his role as Stu in Scream 7. I'm not sure how that's going to work.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 28 Feb  2025, 22:56Interestingly, Lillard is also set to reprise his role as Stu in Scream 7. I'm not sure how that's going to work.

It's loose canon that he survived the first film. The booklet for the mega Scream "trilogy" DVD set from 2002 (or so) listed off all the Ghostface killers up to that point.

Among them, I think Stu was listed as a survivor. In any case, Kevin Williamson's original plan for Scream 3 called for Stu to give an encore performance to close out the trilogy. Obviously, Scream 3 and the saga as a whole went a different way.

Another interesting thing about the Scream set's booklet is that it indicted someone else.

Scream 3 suggests that Roman acted alone. But the movie itself makes it basically impossible for Roman to have been a solo act. Otherwise, whole sequences make no sense. Well, the booklet clarifies that. The character Angelina Tyler was Roman's unindicted co-conspirator. Furthermore, the booklet lists her as alive. Either Roman's attack on her was faked or else she somehow survived it. Meaning, she was never caught, she's still alive and may yet come back to menace Sydney.