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I think Wong Kar Wai would make a rather interesting Batman film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZagCNEu3Xs

Tony Leung would make a pretty smooth Bruce Wayne if he did an elsewords take on the character

My choice is David Fincher. He has that gloom and grit that could definitely fit for a Batman film. Albeit in an R-rated film.

- David Fincher (ideally, he would direct a live action adaptation of Prey, from Legends Of The Dark Knight)

- Eighties-era Robert Zemeckis

- Matrix-era Wachowskis (I'm imagining something even more kinetic and bonkers than even Schumacher)

- Baz Luhrmann (oh, you thought the Wachowskis would be f**king bonkers?)

- Sam Raimi (ideally, something adapted directly from 1939-1941 Golden Age comics)

- Steven Spielberg (ideally, something adapted from late Sixties/early Seventies Bronze Age comics)

- Eighties-era John McTiernan

- Martin Scorsese (cold day in hell, I know, but a boy can dream)

- Nineties-era James Cameron

- Frank Darabont (ideally, a series of movies based on Strange Apparitions)

- Ridley Scott (ideally, something that includes Batgirl. And maybe Brother Eye?) (Plus, I'd like to see another European filmmaker's take on the material)

- Robert Rodriguez (in Sin City/digital backlot style)

- Guy Ritchie

- Stanley Kubrick (if mortality was no object) (Ego seems like an obvious thing for him to adapt)

- Nineties-era Alex Proyas

- Scott Hicks (this comes exclusively from the gorgeous Snow Falling On Cedars)

- Eighties-era Paul Verhoeven (ideally, a live action adaptation of TDKR since it's such an obvious fit)

Tarantino would be wild. Imagine him handling characters like Two-Face. Extended dialogue scenes with simply a gun and his coin.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 12 May  2021, 01:27
- David Fincher (ideally, he would direct a live action adaptation of Prey, from Legends Of The Dark Knight)

- Eighties-era Robert Zemeckis

- Matrix-era Wachowskis (I'm imagining something even more kinetic and bonkers than even Schumacher)

- Baz Luhrmann (oh, you thought the Wachowskis would be f**king bonkers?)

- Sam Raimi (ideally, something adapted directly from 1939-1941 Golden Age comics)

- Steven Spielberg (ideally, something adapted from late Sixties/early Seventies Bronze Age comics)

- Eighties-era John McTiernan

- Martin Scorsese (cold day in hell, I know, but a boy can dream)

- Nineties-era James Cameron

- Frank Darabont (ideally, a series of movies based on Strange Apparitions)

- Ridley Scott (ideally, something that includes Batgirl. And maybe Brother Eye?) (Plus, I'd like to see another European filmmaker's take on the material)

- Robert Rodriguez (in Sin City/digital backlot style)

- Guy Ritchie

- Stanley Kubrick (if mortality was no object) (Ego seems like an obvious thing for him to adapt)

- Nineties-era Alex Proyas

- Scott Hicks (this comes exclusively from the gorgeous Snow Falling On Cedars)

- Eighties-era Paul Verhoeven (ideally, a live action adaptation of TDKR since it's such an obvious fit)

I wonder how a 90's Alex Proyas would of worked as a Burton replacement is Returns didn't scare as many people as it did.

Paul Thomas Anderson (either a deep character study possibly taking place entirely in 1939, or something more unorthodox that takes place over 1939-1945. Inspired by the original 1943 serial where Bruce, by the midpoint, gets found out and subsequently recruited by the U. S. government as a secret agent to take on Axis saboteurs for the finale.)

1980's era Michael Mann with Batman might have been fun. I'm thinking something along the lines of 1986's Manhunter. A very '80's movie.

This might be controversial for some. But I've been imagining what a Hammer Studios Batman film produced in the late Fifties might've been like. I assume that the director most likely would've been Terence Fisher.

No idea who would've played Batman. But I'll wager that Robin most likely would've been eliminated from the script and his role more or less filled by Alfred, played by Peter Cushing, of course. Christopher Lee probably would've popped up in there somewhere too. Commissioner Gordon, perhaps?

Most Hammer films were produced on (for their time) low budgets so I think their Batman script would've emphasized detective work and character drama over big action sequences.

Thoughts?

QuoteThis might be controversial for some. But I've been imagining what a Hammer Studios Batman film produced in the late Fifties might've been like.

Batman '89 is very Hammer influenced.

I don't know too many active directors I'd like to see tackle a Batman film. I'd like to see a Hitchcock Batman. I'd love to have seen a F. W. Murnau Batman. I would love for Sam Raimi to get his crack at it. Federico Fellini, Terry Gilliam, Richard Donner, James Mangold, Mark Romanek, hell, I think everybody would like to see what Spielberg would have done with it circa 80-00s.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 25 Nov  2021, 19:52
This might be controversial for some. But I've been imagining what a Hammer Studios Batman film produced in the late Fifties might've been like. I assume that the director most likely would've been Terence Fisher.

No idea who would've played Batman. But I'll wager that Robin most likely would've been eliminated from the script and his role more or less filled by Alfred, played by Peter Cushing, of course. Christopher Lee probably would've popped up in there somewhere too. Commissioner Gordon, perhaps?

Most Hammer films were produced on (for their time) low budgets so I think their Batman script would've emphasized detective work and character drama over big action sequences.

Thoughts?

Something like this wouldn't have been entirely outside the realms of possibility. Not if Hammer had optioned the rights in the late fifties or early sixties, back when Batman was under threat of cancellation and before the 1966 wave of Batmania gave the franchise a massive shot in the arm. One of Hammer's rivals, Amicus Studios, had success adapting EC's Tale from the Crypt and Vault of Horror into movies, and Hammer Studios itself was at one point developing a movie based on the Vampirella comics that would have starred Caroline Munro and Peter Cushing.


A Hammer Batman picture is an interesting prospect. I feel like Batman would really need to have been played by an American. Hammer generally couldn't afford big American stars, but they did occasionally nab US actors in lead roles. For example, Brian Donlevy in Quatermass I & II, Dean Jagger in X the Unknown, Bette Davis in The Nanny and The Anniversary, Raquel Welch in One Million Years B.C., and Richard Widmark in To the Devil a Daughter. Ideally, they'd have needed several US actors to play the leads in a Batman film.

But if for the sake of argument we're casting a Hammer Batman film using the studio's regular repertoire of actors, then here are some suggestions.


Reed appeared in nine Hammer films and later narrated a documentary series on the studio. He was mean, intense and totally unconvincing as a teetotaller, but he's the only young Hammer star I can think of who might have had the right physicality to play a serviceable Bruce Wayne.



Who else? My favourite actor of all time, Cushing had that wiry-yet-badass presence that was perfect for Bruce's guardian. A younger Cushing also would have made a good Jonathan Crane.



Morell starred in numerous early Hammer films, including The Camp on Blood Island, The Plague of the Zombies and The Mummy's Shroud. But it's his performance as Watson in The Hound of the Baskervilles that convinces me he would have made an effective Gordon.



One of the most beautiful English actresses of the era, Munro was Hammer's first choice to play Vampirella and she would've been great as Selina Kyle.




Ok, I'm cheating here since Price never actually appeared in a Hammer film. But he should have done. In real life he was close friends with both Cushing and Lee, and the three of them collaborated on numerous projects together. Price starred in many British horror films (Witchfinder General, The Abominable Dr. Phibes and Theatre of Blood, to name but a few), and he also starred in Roger Corman's Poe cycle, which was basically America's answer to Hammer (I view Hammer's work in the UK, Corman's work in the US and Mario Bava's work in Italy as part of the same cinematic gothic horror movement). Price, Cushing and Lee were the three biggest horror stars of that era, and I reckon Egghead would have been perfect as the Hammer Joker.




Court's husband was American and because of this she spent quite a lot of time in the US where she starred in three of Roger Corman's Poe films (Premature Burial, The Raven, The Masque of the Red Death). Back in Britain she was also appearing in Hammer movies. She was one of the top scream queens of that era and was easily beautiful enough to play Poison Ivy. Ingrid Pitt might also have been a good pick for Ivy.



Malleson was typically cast in comic relief roles, but I could see him playing a more light-hearted version of Tetch.



Karloff never acted in a Hammer movie, but he did appear in contemporaneous gothic horror films made by Roger Corman and Mario Bava. And since Basil Karlo was partly based on him, I think he'd have been the ideal actor to play the Hammer Clayface.



Lom starred in Hammer's version of The Phantom of the Opera. For some reason I can see him as Strange.



Hammer's go to actor for hulking monsters.



The Monk was a vampire, and Lee was no stranger to playing those. He also played the title character in Hammer's Rasputin the Mad Monk, so he seems like a natural fit for the part.

Gotham City itself would have looked like a much smaller, cheaper version of the Batman Returns Gotham, or perhaps the European-style Gotham from Batman & Dracula: Red Rain. They probably would have built one tiny street on a back lot and then relied heavily on matte paintings to make the city appear larger (on the trivia front, Hammer matte artist Ray Caple later worked on both Superman: The Movie and Batman '89). Wayne Manor would have appeared lavishly gothic, and the villain would have had a suitably creepy hideout.


I wonder if Mario Bava might have been persuaded to direct it. He was directing Hammer-esque gothic horror movies in Italy at the time, some of which starred Christopher Lee, and he'd had prior experience adapting a comic book in the form of Danger: Diabolik (1968). In addition to being a big Hammer fan, Tim Burton has also cited Bava as one of his major influences. I think his distinctive style would have been well suited to a Batman movie.

As far as the script goes, it would have been great if they could have got American writer Richard Matheson to pen the screenplay. Matheson did an excellent job adapting Dennis Wheatley's The Devil Rides Out for Hammer in 1968. I rate that as Hammer's finest movie and a rare example of a screen adaptation that's superior to the book on which it's based. In addition to writing for Hammer, Matheson also wrote scripts for Roger Corman's Poe cycle. He would've been the perfect screenwriter to tackle Batman at the time.

For music, a generic Hammer score would have sufficed. I've pointed this out before in other threads, but I'll mention once again that the theme from Justice League was ripped off from the Hammer movie Twins of Evil (1971).


Another DCAU Hammer connection can be found in the Batman: The Animated Series episode 'Avatar', which begins with a prologue taking place in the 1890s where an archaeologist, clearly modelled on a young Cushing, enters an ancient Egyptian tomb and discovers a cursed artefact within. This echoes the opening act of The Mummy (1959).


Then there's the Bronze Age comic story 'Heart of a Vampire' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #455, January 1976), in which the villainous Gustav Decobra was modelled on Christopher Lee's Dracula.


Yes, the Hammer Batman connections run deep and a Hammer Batman adaptation could have been very entertaining.

It doesn't seem right posting something so minimal after such a masterclass post, but here it is: probably the best retro casting I've seen. That would've been a mighty movie. Well done again, Silver.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 12 Dec  2021, 17:27
Something like this wouldn't have been entirely outside the realms of possibility. Not if Hammer had optioned the rights in the late fifties or early sixties, back when Batman was under threat of cancellation and before the 1966 wave of Batmania gave the franchise a massive shot in the arm. One of Hammer's rivals, Amicus Studios, had success adapting EC's Tale from the Crypt and Vault of Horror into movies, and Hammer Studios itself was at one point developing a movie based on the Vampirella comics that would have starred Caroline Munro and Peter Cushing.

(https://i.postimg.cc/PNs5096q/latest.webp)

A Hammer Batman picture is an interesting prospect. I feel like Batman would really need to have been played by an American. Hammer generally couldn't afford big American stars, but they did occasionally nab US actors in lead roles. For example, Brian Donlevy in Quatermass I & II, Dean Jagger in X the Unknown, Bette Davis in The Nanny and The Anniversary, Raquel Welch in One Million Years B.C., and Richard Widmark in To the Devil a Daughter. Ideally, they'd have needed several US actors to play the leads in a Batman film.

But if for the sake of argument we're casting a Hammer Batman film using the studio's regular repertoire of actors, then here are some suggestions.

Batman: Oliver Reed

(https://i.postimg.cc/VvqZ1bfc/1.png)

Reed appeared in nine Hammer films and later narrated a documentary series on the studio. He was mean, intense and totally unconvincing as a teetotaller, but he's the only young Hammer star I can think of who might have had the right physicality to play a serviceable Bruce Wayne.

Alfred: Peter Cushing

(https://i.postimg.cc/kGvsL3sJ/2.png)

Who else? My favourite actor of all time, Cushing had that wiry-yet-badass presence that was perfect for Bruce's guardian. A younger Cushing also would have made a good Jonathan Crane.

Gordon: André Morell

(https://i.postimg.cc/8C7ycYp4/3.png)

Morell stared in numerous early Hammer films, including The Camp on Blood Island, The Plague of the Zombies and The Mummy' Shroud. But it's his performance as Watson in The Hound of the Baskervilles that convinces me he would have made an effective Gordon.

Catwoman: Caroline Munro

(https://i.postimg.cc/L5pvy6zQ/4.png)

One of the most beautiful English actresses of the era, Munro was Hammer's first choice to play Vampirella and she would've been great as Selina Kyle.

Joker: Vincent Price

(https://i.postimg.cc/XNfsrdbR/5.png)

Ok, I'm cheating here since Price never actually appeared in a Hammer film. But he should have done. In real life he was close friends with both Cushing and Lee, and the three of them collaborated on numerous projects together. Price starred in many British horror films (Witchfinder General, The Abominable Dr. Phibes and Theatre of Blood, to name but a few), and he also starred in Roger Corman's Poe cycle, which was basically America's answer to Hammer (I view Hammer's work in the UK, Corman's work in the US and Mario Bava's work in Italy as part of the same cinematic gothic horror movement). Price, Cushing and Lee were the three biggest horror stars of that era, and I reckon Egghead would have been perfect as the Hammer Joker.

Poison Ivy: Hazel Court

(https://i.postimg.cc/Hx5B4777/6.png)

Court's husband was American and because of this she spent quite a lot of time in the US where she starred in three of Roger Corman's Poe films (Premature Burial, The Raven, The Masque of the Red Death). Back in Britain she was also appearing in Hammer movies. She was one of the top scream queens of that era and was easily beautiful enough to play Poison Ivy. Ingrid Pitt might also have been a good pick for Ivy.

Mad Hatter: Miles Malleson

(https://i.postimg.cc/TYxH0Q02/7.png)

Malleson was typically cast in comic relief roles, but I could see him playing a more light-hearted version of Tetch.

Clayface: Boris Karloff

(https://i.postimg.cc/rF9ZPWZ1/8.png)

Karloff never acted in a Hammer movie, but he did appear in contemporaneous gothic horror films made by Roger Corman and Mario Bava. And since Basil Karlo was partly based on him, I think he'd have been the ideal actor to play the Hammer Clayface.

Hugo Strange: Herbert Lom

(https://i.postimg.cc/T377Rx6h/9.png)

Lom starred in Hammer's version of The Phantom of the Opera. For some reason I can see him as Strange.

Solomon Grundy: Dave Prowse

(https://i.postimg.cc/3J3nmNrd/10.png)

Hammer's go to actor for hulking monsters.

The Monk: Christopher Lee

(https://i.postimg.cc/3J99BhW9/11.png)

The Monk was a vampire, and Lee was no stranger to playing those. He also played the title character in Hammer's Rasputin the Mad Monk, so he seems like a natural fit for the part.

Gotham City itself would have looked like a much smaller, cheaper version of the Batman Returns Gotham, or perhaps the European-style Gotham from Batman & Dracula: Red Rain. They probably would have built one tiny street on a back lot and then relied heavily on matte paintings to make the city appear larger (on the trivia front, Hammer matte artist Ray Caple later worked on both Superman: The Movie and Batman '89). Wayne Manor would have appeared lavishly gothic, and the villain would have had a suitably creepy hideout.

(https://i.postimg.cc/q76L4CwZ/sets.png)

I wonder if Mario Bava might have been persuaded to direct it. He was directing Hammer-esque gothic horror movies in Italy at the time, some of which starred Christopher Lee, and he'd had prior experience adapting a comic book in the form of Danger: Diabolik (1968). In addition to being a big Hammer fan, Tim Burton has also cited Bava as one of his major influences. I think his distinctive style would have been well suited to a Batman movie.

As far as the script goes, it would have been great if they could have got American writer Richard Matheson to pen the screenplay. Matheson did an excellent job adapting Dennis Wheatley's The Devil Rides Out for Hammer in 1968. I rate that as Hammer's finest movie and a rare example of a screen adaptation that's superior to the book on which it's based. In addition to writing for Hammer, Matheson also wrote scripts for Roger Corman's Poe cycle. He would've been the perfect screenwriter to tackle Batman at the time.

For music, a generic Hammer score would have sufficed. I've pointed this out before in other threads, but I'll mention once again that the theme from Justice League was ripped off from the Hammer movie Twins of Evil (1971).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CcMuiTA6cs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAsDL7f3veM

Another DCAU Hammer connection can be found in the Batman: The Animated Series episode 'Avatar', which begins with a prologue taking place in the 1890s where an archaeologist, clearly modelled on a young Cushing, enters an ancient Egyptian tomb and discovers a cursed artefact within. This echoes the opening act of The Mummy (1959).

(https://i.postimg.cc/dV16NfyF/avatar.png)

Then there's the Bronze Age comic story 'Heart of a Vampire' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #455, January 1976), in which the villainous Gustav Decobra was modelled on Christopher Lee's Dracula.

(https://i.postimg.cc/mg5wvSYH/dc455.png)

Yes, the Hammer Batman connections run deep and a Hammer Batman adaptation could have been very entertaining.

And the BOF post of 2021 goes to ......  8)

Truly, a outstanding, and well thought out post, Silver.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 13 Dec  2021, 07:49
It doesn't seem right posting something so minimal after such a masterclass post, but here it is: probably the best retro casting I've seen. That would've been a mighty movie. Well done again, Silver.

Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 15 Dec  2021, 22:50And the BOF post of 2021 goes to ......  8)

Truly, a outstanding, and well thought out post, Silver.

I was wondering what a similar Batman movie might have been like if it had been produced and directed by Roger Corman. Corman made a cameo as the director of the fictional Batman film in Looney Tunes: Back in Action. He was also one of the first filmmakers, if not the first, to depict H. P. Lovecraft's Arkham in a movie (The Haunted Palace).


But what if he'd made a Batman film back in the sixties? Many of the same people from the Hammer version could've carried over, such as Price, Court and Matheson. Here are some other Corman-specific casting ideas.




Nicholson got his break appearing in Roger Corman pictures, including classic gothic horror flicks like The Raven and The Terror. In the following interview clip he actually breaks down crying as he credits Corman with launching his career.


Physically Nicholson wasn't big or imposing, but in his youth he could have played a more averagely-built Keatonesque version of Batman.




Another classic horror icon who appeared in several entries in Corman's Poe cycle. He had the perfect short stature and round physique to play Cobblepot.




Vintage scream queen who worked with both Corman and Mario Bava, but who for some reason never appeared in a Hammer film. Tim Burton is a fan of hers and staged some memorable tribute photographs with Lisa Marie back in the nineties. Steele had the right vampiric look for Dala.




Rathbone was another veteran of Corman's Poe films and also famously a very accomplished swordsman in real life. He would have been getting on in years by this point, but he'd still have been a good pick for Cavalier.


The ultimate gothic Batman film would have been an international co-production between Hammer, Corman and Bava. I imagine the result being something similar to Batman Returns, only made thirty years earlier and on a much smaller budget.

Another great post, with some awesome casting possibilities as well. Cheers, Silver.

I'm sure a Hammer and/or Corman produced Batman movie made during the 1950's/1960's would have been interesting. Not only for the casting, but for how exactly the material would have been approached during these periods. As I am sure there would have no doubt been at least some liberties taken with the lore, supporting characters, and villains alike, perhaps even Batman himself to some extent? My thinking is somewhere along the lines of how Amicus Productions adapted Tales from the Crypt in 1972. Where instead of having a long white haired Crypt Keeper speaking directly to the viewer and spinning yarns of horror, the film deviated and incorporated a plot where a group of unsavory individuals take a misguided turn during a tour of catacombs, and are soon after introduced the 1st cinematic Crypt Keeper (who looks only vaguely like the EC Comics version), who then proceeds to elaborate to them, one by one, of their fates.

I think it's probable that at least, some liberties would have been taken with Batman under the Hammer/Corman umbrella, but to what extent is a interesting question to think about. The era/time period/cultural climate to which such a film would have been made plays a considerable factor as well.

Also, as a big Jack Nicholson fan, your idea of a young twenty-something Jack taking on the role of Batman during the early 1960's (as that was when in his career, Jack began getting meatier roles) is intriguing to think about. I would theorize that Jack's Batman's psychology probably would have incorporated some unique non-verbal idiosyncratic behavior into his Batman. Especially with Nicholson's eyes, it would almost be a crime not to. 

There certainly would have been a lot of changes. Partly to work around the budgetary limitations, but also to adapt the material for the cinema of the era. Superhero films weren't generally in vogue in the fifties and sixties. Not until Batman: The Movie popularised the campier wave of CBMs. But if we assume a Hammer production would have predated that trend, then it would have been a very different kind of picture. It might have ended up being unintentionally funny, but I doubt the filmmakers would have deliberately played it for laughs.

The Vault of Horror film contained some campiness mixed in with the horror, but the Tales from the Crypt movie was mostly played straight. I'm sure there would have been some comic relief in a Hammer Batman film, but Batman himself would likely have been portrayed in a serious manner. He would have been presented as dark, badass and frightening, with a shadowy mystique similar to that of Christopher Lee's Dracula or Herbert Lom's Phantom of the Opera.


The Batsuit might have been tricky to get right. I've been thinking over the various costumes that appeared in Hammer movies, trying to envisage what Batman's might have been like. Frankenstein briefly wore masks in The Evil of Frankenstein and Frankenstein Must Be Destroyed.


Captain Clegg (also played by Cushing) and his followers wore glow-in-the-dark skeleton costumes in Captain Clegg, AKA Night Creatures. Clegg himself also wore a hooded black cloak. He looked a lot like the Batman villain Death Man.


Come to think of it, Death Man debuted in 'Death Knocks Three Times!' (Batman Vol 1 #180, May 1966). This was one of the last dark Silver Age Batman stories before the camp era began, and it was published four years after Captain Clegg's June 1962 release date. Could Death Man have been inspired by the Hammer movie?


Returning to the subject of Hammer costumes, the acrobats in Vampire Circus wore face masks.


As did the title villains in The Legend of the 7 Golden Vampires.


But the closest thing I can think of to the Batman cowl in any Hammer film was the masks worn by the voodoo cultists in The Plague of the Zombies. They covered the head except for the eyes and mouth/jaw.


While the comic book costume would undoubtedly have been altered for the screen, I think the Hammer Batsuit would still have retained some variation of the classic cowl. Either it would have been a sculpted facemask worn over a hooded cloak to make it appear like a single seamless garment, or it would have been a leather executioner's mask with the ears sewn on, or else a sculpted helmet that would cover almost his entire head without being attached to the cape.

The cape itself would have been full length like Dracula's and he would have worn it draped over his shoulders, except when climbing or fighting. He would have worn basic black leather gloves and boots, but he wouldn't have worn spandex or trunks and I doubt the utility belt would have been anything more complex than a black or brown leather belt. He probably would have worn loose fitting grey trousers and matching tunic under the cape, somewhat like the uniform of a Confederate soldier. If there was a chest emblem, it would have been the original black version without the oval. Basically, I think he would have looked pretty close to the Gotham by Gaslight Batman.


Hammer makeup artists were fond of using contact lenses, so Batman might have had white eyes under the mask.


His arsenal would likely have consisted of a basic grappling hook and rope and maybe a batarang and some throwing blades. Smoke bombs would also have been a possibility, but nothing more hi-tech than that. The exterior sets would have been clouded with artificial fog anyway.

I can't imagine there being a Batmobile. Not unless it was just a basic civilian car like in the early comics. Instead I imagine the Hammer Batman would have ridden a black horse or motorcycle.

There would have been plenty of unconvincing rubber bats flapping about in the Batcave, and the Bat-Signal, if it featured at all, would probably have been a signal flare or firework rather than a searchlight. I think the Hammer Batman would have kept to himself and not communicated much with Gordon, similar to how the Burton Batman operated. If he did interact with Gordon, it would be as Bruce Wayne rather than in his Batman guise.

The fight scenes in Hammer films tended to be basic brawls that incorporated blades, guns and stage props with gory results. There were some more technically ambitious fight scenes though, such as those in The Legend of the 7 Golden Vampires. That one was a co-production between Hammer and the Shaw Brothers, and the latter studio supplied plenty of Kung Fu action for the mix.


Captain Kronos: Vampire Hunter also had some decent fight scenes in which the choreography blended European fencing disciplines (mostly epee) with the Japanese martial art Iaido. But for a Batman film, I expect Bruce's fighting style would have been a basic form of kickboxing mixed with some Judo, street fighting and wrestling techniques. Maybe some sword fighting too. He would have been more of a brawler than most other screen versions of Batman (this is after all Oliver Reed we're talking about), and he probably would have used lethal force. I think he almost certainly would have killed the Joker at the end of the film.

Speaking of the Joker, the evil dwarf clown in Vampire Circus offers us a glimpse of what a Hammer version's makeup might have looked like.


Killer Croc didn't exist back in the fifties and sixties, but it he had then the Hammer makeup effects might have resembled those from The Reptile.


The zombie makeup effects in The Plague of the Zombies indicate how Solomon Grundy might have appeared.


Sorry to go off on a tangent, but I've got a lot to say about The Plague of the Zombies and its place in the history of the zombie genre. It predates Romero's Night of the Living Dead by two years, and it's the first zombie movie to feature graphic colour gore. Earlier zombie movies tended to depict the monsters in the tradition of Haitian voodoo zombies, but Hammer portrayed them as rotting corpses with blue-grey skin and white eyes that claw their way out of their graves. They don't eat flesh and it's unclear whether destruction of the brain can kill them, but other than that they're consistent with how modern zombies are generally portrayed.


Also note how the decapitation scene in the above clip foreshadows the scenes in Evil Dead I and II where Ash decapitates Linda with a shovel. The Plague of the Zombies manages to incorporate voodoo into the storyline, and in that sense it bridges the gap between the Haitian voodoo zombies of older films and the living dead zombies of modern cinema. Not to take anything away from Night of the Living Dead, which is definitely a classic landmark entry in the genre, but I consider The Plague of the Zombies to be the first true modern zombie film. It's one of my top ten favourite Hammer films and IMO it doesn't get enough credit from horror film historians.

Anyway, getting back on topic, the large lumbering monsters in the Frankenstein and Mummy films also provide a good template for what the Hammer Grundy might have looked like.


One last thing to mention about the Hammer Batman film is that it would have needed a gratuitous catfight between Catwoman and Ivy. Something like this.


Hammer got FX legend Ray Harryhausen to animate the dinosaurs in One Million Years B.C. Man-Bat wasn't introduced in the comics until 1970, but if he had existed earlier than that then maybe Hammer could have got Harryhausen to bring him to life using stop motion effects. Perhaps Michael Gough could have portrayed Langstrom's human form.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 12 Dec  2021, 17:27

Catwoman: Caroline Munro

(https://i.postimg.cc/L5pvy6zQ/4.png)

One of the most beautiful English actresses of the era, Munro was Hammer's first choice to play Vampirella and she would've been great as Selina Kyle.

[...]

I wonder if Mario Bava might have been persuaded to direct it. He was directing Hammer-esque gothic horror movies in Italy at the time, some of which starred Christopher Lee, and he'd had prior experience adapting a comic book in the form of Danger: Diabolik (1968). In addition to being a big Hammer fan, Tim Burton has also cited Bava as one of his major influences. I think his distinctive style would have been well suited to a Batman movie.

There's a great TV channel in the UK called Talking Pictures that specialises in showing old films. Late at night they have a slot called The Cellar Club that showcases cult horror and sci-fi films, many of which have fallen into obscurity. Some of the movies they've shown recently include things like Curse of the Crimson Altar (1968), The Mad Room (1969), The Beast in the Cellar (1970), The Blood on Satan's Claw (1971), Death Line (1972), The Flesh and Blood Show (1972), Futureworld (1974), Inseminoid (1981) and House of the Long Shadows (1983). They often show Hammer and Amicus movies too. I love it.

Anyway, the reason I bring this up is that Caroline Munro is the host of The Cellar Club. She'll introduce three films back-to-back each night, prefacing them with trivia and personal memories and reading out fan letters. A couple of nights ago she was introducing the horror film House of Whipcord (1974) when she read a letter from someone who said he'd seen a fan poster for a hypothetical Batman movie directed by Mario Bava and starring Munro as Catwoman. Here's the poster in question.


I hadn't seen this before, but it predates my own suggestion of a Batman film with Bava and Munro. Munro said she thought the film was a great idea and that she would have loved to have played Catwoman. Then she made a clawing motion with her hand and meowed. :D If she was game for that, then I'm sure she'd have been game for the Hammer Batman movie suggested in this thread. She's one of the few actresses I can think of who could have challenged Newmar, Meriwether and Pfeiffer for sheer beauty.


And yeah – this entire post was basically an excuse to post pictures of her in her prime.


On the trivia front, Munro was supposedly offered the role of Ursa in Superman I and II but turned it down owing to scheduling conflicts with The Spy Who Loved Me (1977). I can't say it was a bad decision, since The Spy Who Love Me is easily the best Bond movie of the seventies and my second favourite 007 film overall. It's also hard to imagine anyone other than Sarah Douglas playing the Donnerverse incarnation of Ursa. But for a seventies Catwoman, I can't think of anyone better than Munro.

Ages ago, a hoax was deliberately circulated that Orson Welles had come THIS close to creating a Batman film in the mid-Forties. But, for a variety of showbiz reasons, it never happened.

Again, I emphasize that this was a prank.

Still, ever since the hoax first gained traction, I've had a very difficult time shaking the idea from my mind. What might a Welles Batman film have been like?

For openers, I don't think it was ever a real possibility. Batman debuted in May 1939. Citizen Kane was released in September 1941... and from then on, Welles was a bona fide star. So, when would he have ever had time to do a Batman film?

But putting that aside, it's hard to not let your mind wander when considering how a Batman film directed by Orson freaking Welles in the height of the film noir era could've worked out. Obviously, Batman isn't a perfect fit for film noir. But I would argue he hits more noir tropes and "rules" than any other superhero character (except MAYBE Daredevil, but that's arguable).

So, what might a Welles Batman film released in 1945 have been like? We can't know for sure, of course. But I think we can make some educated speculation. Fancasting!

Bruce/Batman, Orson Welles: Who else? Plus, at 6", he's not a terrible choice anyway.

Love Interest, Rita Hayworth: It's tempting to call this character Vicki Vale. But she wasn't created in the comics until 1948. If this movie comes out in 1945, that name is impossible. But given that Welles was married to Hayworth in 1945, she had star power of her own and she was no stranger to film noir, it makes sense to cast her as Batman's love interest in the film. Aside from Welles himself, this is arguably the biggest no brainer in the whole film.

Catwoman (The Cat?), Marlene Dietrich: Playing a femme fatale was Dietrich's entire stock-in-trade during this era. I doubt she would've worn a Catsuit or anything similar. Rather, I think it more likely that she would be a cat burglar playing Batman against someone else (the police? Another villain?). She'd get her comeuppance in the end (maybe). But she wouldn't be the front and center antagonist of the piece. No, that would go to...

The Penguin, Peter Lorre: Yes, I'm stealing this from SN. I just couldn't think of a way to incorporate Hugo Strange or the Joker into film noir, sadly. But here again, Lorre certainly did his share of film noir. So, I think he's a defensible choice here.

Commissioner Gordon, Sam Levene: Honestly, the only reason I didn't suggest Sydney Greenstreet here is because Greenstreet typically played more villainous characters. But circa 1945, Greenstreet was almost a dead ringer for Gordon. Alas. But Sam Levene fits the bill.

A potential plot would've been:

Batman gets summoned to police headquarters by Gordon. There he meets Selina Kyle. She's come forward with information pertaining to the Jade Tiger (or some other valuable cat-related item). A local crime lord known only as "the Penguin" intends to steal it.

From there, Batman does a deep dive of the underworld attempting to locate this Penguin person. A person of interest in his search is Oswald Cobblepot. Midway through the film, Batman deduces that Cobblepot and the Penguin are one and the same. But the Penguin reveals that he prefers stealing bird-related items. A cat-related item isn't his usual MO. So, Batman is briefly stymied. Only near the end does he realize that Selina has led him on a wild goose chase so that she, The Cat, can steal the Tiger.

Like any good film noir, there need to be crosses, double-crosses, double-double-crosses, etc. Revealing the Penguin's true identity is a good "twist" for the middle of the film, when Batman's case seemingly falls apart. After the Jade Tiger is stolen in the second act and Batman is left baffled, revealing Selina's true identity as The Cat can be the final twist.

In the finale, Selina, having framed the Penguin for the theft of the Jade Tiger, kills the Penguin and then gets caught by Batman. She tearfully explains that the Penguin had been extorting her for money owed to him by her now deceased husband. She tried framing him for the theft to get him out of the way. With the proceeds from selling the Tiger, she can blow town and put her life of crime behind her. But Batman refuses to let her go. A struggle ensues and somehow Selina falls on her own sword (falls off a building, perhaps?) and is presumed dead.

The movie ends with Batman having one last conversation with Gordon, revealing to him (and the audience) how he put all the pieces of the case together. Gordon turns to thank him, only to find that Batman has vanished mysteriously into the night once again.

I think this story is probably best told with a narrative focus on Batman himself but from Gordon's point of view. Therefore, the viewer will know that Batman and Bruce are the same person, but Gordon does not. That single fact is what keeps Gordon in the dark about how and why Batman does what he does, appears where he appears, etc.

Given this movie's reliance on Gordon as the POV character and film noir's reliance on voiceover narration, I think Welles would've eliminated Alfred from the movie since he would've been redundant in this context. Even now, the only justification I can see for Gordon's inclusion is (1) to summon Batman to police headquarters at the start of the film and (2) to serve as the POV character to distance the audience from Batman's own point of view. Between The Shadow and Charles Foster Kane, I think a case can be made that Welles enjoyed (or was at least open to) playing enigmatic characters who are the object but not the subject of a story. Hence, Gordon needs to be the POV character in this movie.

Plus, let's face it, it might have been assumed that nobody would take the movie seriously if Batman was the lead character. But a cop? Yeah, that's easy to justify as your lead character.

Anyway. Thoughts?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun,  3 Jul  2022, 22:32

Catwoman: Caroline Munro

(https://i.postimg.cc/L5pvy6zQ/4.png)

One of the most beautiful English actresses of the era, Munro was Hammer's first choice to play Vampirella and she would've been great as Selina Kyle.

Munro said she thought the film was a great idea and that she would have loved to have played Catwoman. Then she made a clawing motion with her hand and meowed. :D If she was game for that, then I'm sure she'd have been game for the Hammer Batman movie suggested in this thread. She's one of the few actresses I can think of who could have challenged Newmar, Meriwether and Pfeiffer for sheer beauty.

(https://i.postimg.cc/QM264w7L/munro1.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DZ1xt6QS/munro2.png)

And yeah – this entire post was basically an excuse to post pictures of her in her prime.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/8061c616d94f40d3279fb5bd1ffac3b5/tumblr_o2in5eqlOk1sqf5tdo2_400.gifv)

Yeah, prime Caroline Munro was truly something else! I wholeheartedly agree that she would have made one fine Catwoman, but wow, did we really miss out on Caroline as Vampirella. The Warren publishing magazine covers were always fun to look at, and having Caroline Munro, of all actresses at the time, wearing a outfit like that for a movie .... Jesus marimba!, yeah we really missed out.

Simply no way around that.


As for Colors' idea for a Orson Welles 1945 "Batman" movie. As always, I appreciate the well thought out post. Even back in the day when the Welles/Batman hoax was just making the rounds, I just never could really get on board with the notion that it was even a real possibility. Something about a Orson Welles Batman movie just felt 'off'. To me, the sensibilities of the time would have stood in the way of such a endeavor to truly take hold. Live action Superhero entertainment, was very much considered children's entertainment, much like the comics, that was largely regulated to Saturday morning serials and such. To me, I think the general audiences perception of Welles doing a Batman movie in 1945, would have resulted in the assumption that he must have owed someone a pretty big favor or something. Even something like "Dick Tracy", which was around nearly 10 years prior to Batman even being published, and was doing gangbusters in the Newspaper comic strips at this time, also could not escape this consciousness by the studios, and was simply regulated to RKO cut-rate B movies that starred Ralph Byrd (whom was brought back from the serials following Morgan Conway's departure). In addition, the absolute turnaround of Batman having a 1943 serial, to a 1945 directed by Orson Welles Batman movie comes across as a bit much. Now, if there was some sort of superhero film that was a surprise smash hit at the box office, during the early-mid 1940's, that took all the major studios at the time off guard, and consequentially, made them very interested in doing their own version, perhaps I would think otherwise that a Welles Batman would have been a possibility. If not by Welles, perhaps even suggested to him? Unfortunately, no instance like that occurred, and it's just one of those things that's fun to think about.

To me, if Orson Welles was really and truly going to jump feet first into a "film noir" of this type, it makes a lot more sense that it probably would have been The Shadow if anything. Considering Orson's past and association with the character following his radio drama portrayals during his early 20's. Honestly, I could more easily envision Welles having some nostalgia for that Shadow 1937-1938 radio stint, and thus over time, real affection for the character by 1945 to where a possible 'Grade A' "The Shadow" feature is, at least, somewhat feasible....

But again, I appreciate the post, and I like Colors' idea for story and cast. I also appreciate taking into account the sensibilities of the era, and placing Gordon as the POV character for audiences of the time. That would have sincerely played a role in placing credibility within the narrative.

Michael Bay: I might have to justify this to some people. But I see a Bay Batman movie as being comparable to late Silver Age Batman comics. That post-Adam West, pre-Neil Adams sweet spot where Batman's world wasn't "dark", as such. But it was pretty dim. That's the world I think Bay would (unintentionally?) land in were he to direct a Batman film. I think it would be a welcome change of pace from Nolan's unrelenting darkness, Reeves's uber-detective and Burton's gothic claustrophobia. Of all the filmmakers I list of here, I might have the easiest time defending this choice.

Chris Weitz: This one might be even harder to justify than Bay. But I'll give it a shot. Between About A Boy, The Golden Compass and Twilight: New Moon (which, yes, I've seen), I detect a very powerful and distinctly European flavor in this American's work. In particular, my hazy memory of that Twilight movie is that it just FELT like a foreign (to America) film. So, there's a risk that Batman's peculiarly American roots just might not compute for Weitz's European style/influences. But there's also a chance that he'd create something more distinct, more original and more personal than every other filmmaker on this list. I'd be willing to give him a shot.

Gore Verbinski: The Ring proves this guy can build suspense. That alone piques my interest in a Verbinski Batman film.

Michel Gondry: Obviously.

Nineties-era Oliver Stone: The reason for this is because I rather like the rapid-fire cuts and changes in film stock and so forth that Stone experimented with in the Nineties in JFK and Natural Born Killers. I think this technique could be employed to powerful effect as Batman solves (or attempts to solve) The Mystery. There are arguments against Stone directing a Batman movie and I understand them. He has his own peccadilloes as a filmmaker. And they may not be compatible with what makes Batman tick. But my curiosity isn't letting up. I want to see this movie.

Peter Berg: This is one I'm sort of iffy about, honestly. Berg has a way of somewhat looking down his nose at the material. Friday Night Lights is one example of that. Hancock is another. The Rundown is possibly yet another. For some reason, Berg seems to resent some (or all?) of the material that he works with. But at the same time, his critical approach could work in Batman's favor. It would be a gamble. And it might pay off. But even if it doesn't pay off, I think Batman is strong enough as a character to survive Peter Berg.

Terry Gilliam: This is another one I'm iffy about. Gilliam has said that he is attracted to "magic realism"... which could be applied to Batman in a pretty successful way. Plus, I would argue even Burton didn't go as far with this approach as he might have. If you ask me, this is still fertile ground for Batman on film.

2000's-era Steven Soderbergh: This comes primarily from my appreciation for Out Of Sight, Traffic, Ocean's Eleven and Solaris. Soderbergh's own Wiki page says his "films often center [on] the themes of shifting personal identities, sexuality, and the human condition". There's a considerable amount of applicability to Batman with that stuff. But I can also see where an affection for those themes might actually work to Batman's detriment. But, as with Berg, I think Batman can withstand Soderbergh's approach if things go sideways. It would be a risk worth taking.

Quote from: The Joker on Tue,  5 Jul  2022, 05:17Yeah, prime Caroline Munro was truly something else! I wholeheartedly agree that she would have made one fine Catwoman, but wow, did we really miss out on Caroline as Vampirella. The Warren publishing magazine covers were always fun to look at, and having Caroline Munro, of all actresses at the time, wearing a outfit like that for a movie .... Jesus marimba!, yeah we really missed out.

Simply no way around that.

I read recently that Munro turned down Vampirella. She was Hammer's first pick for the role, having previously starred in their films Dracula A.D. 1972 (1972) and Captain Kronos: Vampire Hunter (1974). But she rejected the movie on account of her no nudity policy, and American actress Barbara Leigh was cast in her place. There are quite a few pictures that show Leigh in costume. I think that's Hammer producer Michael Carreras standing next to her in the first pic.


Peter Cushing was going to play her sidekick, Pendragon, which would have made Vampirella his second CBM after Tales from the Crypt (1972). Scans of Cushing's copy of the script surfaced on the internet some time ago, complete with handwritten annotations he'd made concerning his character. Here he is reading a Vampirella comic.


Leigh, Cushing and Carreras all attended the 1975 Monstercon convention in New York to promote the movie. But for whatever reason, the project fell through and Hammer stopped producing feature films. However, Caroline Munro performed a script reading of the Hammer screenplay at London's Regents Street Cinema back in 2019. Some promotional art was created for this event which shows what she would have looked like in the costume.


That same year a licensed figure based on Munro's Vampirella was released to celebrate the character's 50th anniversary.


The closest we ever got to seeing Munro as Vampirella in live action was the Star Wars rip-off Starcrash (1978), in which she played the scantily-clad heroine Stella Star who has to rescue the prince (played by David Hasselhoff) from the evil Joe Spinell (who later co-starred with Munro in Maniac (1980) and The Last Horror Film (1982)). Bad though this film may be, I'd still take Stella Star over Rey Skywalker any day. Munro's voice was dubbed by an American actress, but her alluring physical presence demonstrates that she had the necessary build and athleticism to play Vampirella.


Coming back to the Ursa thing, Munro mentioned missing out on the Superman movies on The Cellar Club earlier this week. She was asked if there were any roles she would have liked to have played but never got the chance, and she mentioned having to turn down Ursa. She said she thought Sarah Douglas was great in the part, but that it would have been nice to have played it herself. But she also said she loved the role of Naomi in The Spy Who Loved Me and seemed content with her decision to pick Bond over Superman.

Once again, thanks for all the info on Hammer's cancelled "Vampirella" movie, and Caroline Munro's association with the film. Much of this, I was absolutely completely unaware of. Cheers!

Quote from: Silver NemesisI'd still take Stella Star over Rey Skywalker any day.

For sure!

Oh, and speaking of Sarah Douglas, not sure if there's any fans of V on this board, but a year or two ago, some of the cast participated in a online reunion show, and I was surprised that Sarah said that her real hair had really grown out long by the time of "V The Final Battle" for her role as Pamela. However, the producers insisted that Sarah wear a wig with a shorter hair style for the mini series, and she jokingly mentioned being jealous of Jane Badler having a longer hair style, where she, evidently, could not.

I (wrongly) assumed Sarah simply had just kept her hair fairly short for at least the early part of the 1980's after "Superman II", but it would have been interesting seeing her with longer hair as Pamela in "V The Final Battle". Although I get that there seemed to be some intent in making Jane Badler's Diana the more alluring visitor of the two.

(https://sarah-douglas.com/wp-content/uploads/v-1.jpg)

I'm ashamed to admit that I've never actually watched the original V miniseries, or any of the sequel shows, right the way through. I'm generally very well up on sci-fi books, films and TV shows, but this is one franchise I've never got around to exploring. I've seen bits of it, but never the whole thing. I'll try and get hold of a copy of the original series later this year. It looks like the kind of thing I'd enjoy.

I didn't realise Sarah Douglas was in it until now. She looked attractive with short hair, but she looked even better with long hair.


Ursa's shorter haircut was better suited to the character though. It was more practical and militaristic.

Between Insidious and The Conjuring, I wonder how James Wan would do with a Batman film.

Basically, I'm imagining something that's a cross between the grittiness and sinister overtones of Saw (somehow) crossed with the kinetic energy of Furious 7. It's interesting to consider that the same filmmaker directed both of those.

I think a James Wan Batman film would do well to distinguish itself by tapping into lesser known (to wide audiences) villains such as The Monk, Man-Bat, Mr. Zsasz, Clayface or what have you.

I'd have a lot more faith in Wan handling a Batman movie than James Gunn or Andy Muschietti. We know Wan can deliver dark stylised visuals, and we know he can handle action. More importantly, we know he can tell a compelling story with well-developed characters and emotional drama that makes you care about what's at stake. If you wanted a grittier serial killer Batman movie, he could deliver that too. Just look at how Saw influenced The Batman.

What about casting? Maybe Patrick Wilson as a middle-aged Bruce Wayne?


Lin Shaye could play Leslie Thompkins, and Joseph Bishara could play Victor Zsasz.

Another possible director would be Wan's frequent collaborator and fellow Aussie Leigh Whannell, who directed the superb cyberpunk action thriller Upgrade (2018). Upgrade is one of the best science fiction films of recent years, boasting a great storyline, strong visuals, impressive action and a terrific lead performance by Logan Marshall-Green. The less you know about the storyline going into it, the better, but I highly recommend it. I remember watching Upgrade for the first time and thinking that Whannell would be the perfect director to helm a Batman Beyond movie if Burton passed on the project.

An early eighties Batman film loosely based on the Bronze Age comics and directed by John Carpenter using only people who worked on other Carpenter movies.



Carpenter's Batman theme would be something like this:


All Hell breaks loose in Gotham City when eco-terrorist Ra's al Ghul hijacks an offshore nuclear power plant belonging to industrialist Rupert Thorne. Ra's demands one billion dollars or else he'll set the reactor core to meltdown. GCPD Commissioner Jim Gordon advises against paying the ransom. He suspects Ra's is planning to blow the reactor anyway and believes the money is merely a diversionary tactic. Bowing to pressure from Thorne, Mayor Hamilton Hill dismisses Gordon's theory and tells Ra's the city agrees to his demands.


Ra's gives Hill six hours to deliver the money. Gordon suspects the reactor will be blown when that time runs out. Previously Jim would have turned to the outlaw vigilante Batman for assistance, but earlier that week the GCPD received an anonymous tip that billionaire Bruce Wayne was the man behind the mask. Consequently Gordon was forced to arrest Wayne, who is now being held in a maximum security prison awaiting trial. Jim has Wayne transferred to Gotham Central where he discusses the Ra's crisis with him.


Bruce believes Ra's was the one who exposed his secret identity in order to get him out of the way before hijacking the power plant. Bruce also thinks that Mayor Hill acceded to the terrorists' demands because he's in the pocket of Boss Thorne, who owns the power plant. He agrees with Gordon that Ra's will blow the reactor core regardless of whether he gets paid, since he cares more about eco-terrorism than money. Gordon has Batman's body armour and weapons smuggled to him and together they sneak out of the police station. They collect Batman's souped-up muscle car from the police impound lot and drive to the power plant using a secret service tunnel that runs beneath the bay.


Using the car's radio, Batman is able to contact his accomplice and former butler Alfred Pennyworth, who evaded arrest by hiding in a secret bunker beneath Wayne's penthouse. Alfred supplies Bruce and Jim with intel, warning them that Ra's has recruited several street gangs to assist in the hijacking. The gang members think they're getting paid out of the ransom money, when in reality Ra's is planning to kill them along with everyone else. The first street gang Batman and Gordon encounter upon emerging from the tunnel is the Deadshots, a team of snipers who shoot their car to pieces.


Batman and Gordon survive the encounter and then have to fight their way through various other gangs to reach the reactor. There they are captured by Ra's, who was warned of their coming by Thorne. It turns out Thorne is in cahoots with Ra's to extort the city, though Rupert has no idea his accomplice is planning to screw him over and blow up his precious power plant. Gordon and Batman are brutally tortured, and the Dark Knight is forced to fight Ra's' champion, Ubu, while the street gangs watch. Batman snaps Ubu's neck (yeah, Carpenter's Batman kills; he also uses guns and drops the occasional f-bomb) and the gang members start cheering his name, much to Ra's' chagrin.


One particular gang member, Selina Kyle, is smitten with Batman and helps him and Gordon escape captivity. Meanwhile Rupert Thorne, who is growing suspicious of Ra's' true intentions, covertly travels to the island to confront him. Ra's kills Thorne, collects the ransom money and initiates the reactor meltdown. Some of the gang members get wind of this and try stopping him. This leads to all out war between those gangs that are loyal to Ra's (the Deadshots, the Mad Hi-Hatters and the Arkham Furies) and those that aren't (the Park Row Robins and the Gotham Nightwings). Ra's selects Joker, the most psychotic suicidal gang member in his employ, to guard the power plant control room. Meanwhile Ra's intends to escape the island with the ransom money using a stealth boat.


Selina leads Batman and Gordon to the control room where they are ambushed by Joker. Joker kills Selina and wounds Batman by stabbing him through a chink in his body armour using a crescent-shaped knife resembling a toothy smile. Joker is about to finish off Batman when Gordon sneaks up behind him and blows his brains out with a .357 Magnum. Dr. Leslie Thompkins, a nuclear physicist taken hostage at the plant, tries to help Gordon avert the meltdown while Batman goes after Ra's.


The wounded Batman leaps onto Ra's' boat as it's speeding away from the island. We intercut between scenes of Gordon and Leslie trying to stop the meltdown and scenes of Batman and Ra's fighting on the boat as it skims across the moonlit bay. Ra's exploits the injury Joker inflicted on Bruce to get the better of him. He then knocks the wounded and fatigued Batman into the water, but not before Bruce plants an explosive that destroys the boat and kills the Demon's Head.


With the meltdown averted, the GCPD storm the island. Some of the gang members are arrested, while others escape through the secret service tunnel. Batman's corpse fails to wash ashore, but the authorities assume that both he and Ra's are dead. Hamilton Hill arrives by helicopter and starts chewing out Gordon, telling him he's on suspension pending an inquiry into how Bruce Wayne escaped from Gotham Central. Gordon tells Hill go eff himself before knocking the mayor out cold with a right hook.

Gordon and Leslie go ashore where Jim lights up a cigarette on the riverbank and watches the sun rise over the bay. A black car slowly passes them on the street and Gordon recognises the driver as Alfred. He also glimpses a passenger seated in the back of the vehicle, but when Leslie asks him if he knows who the passenger is Jim simply smiles and says he's never seen him before.

Roll credits accompanied by awesome eighties synth music.


Batman '82 received a mixed response on its release. Contemporary reviewers praised its dark cinematography and gritty atmosphere, but criticised it for lacking the humour and family-friendly tone that had characterised the earlier screen versions of Batman. Comic fans took issue with Carpenter deviating from the source material by having Batman kill and use guns.

The studio was disappointed when the film failed to perform as well at the box office as the Christopher Reeve Superman films had. This prompted them to cancel plans for a sequel and reboot the franchise in 1989 with Mr. Mom and the guy who directed Pee-wee's Big Adventure.

Modern reviews of Batman '82 have been more favourable, and with the passage of time the film has gained a cult following. It's rumoured that Carpenter was planning to write and produce a sequel titled Escape from Gotham (1985), on which Tommy Lee Wallace would have assumed directorial duties. Supposedly the sequel would've featured Austin Stoker as Lucius Fox, Ernest Borgnine as Oswald Cobblepot, Keith David as Killer Croc and Alice Cooper as Scarecrow. Daryl Hannah was rumoured to be in talks to portray Silver St. Cloud.

Although Carpenter's association with the Batman film series ended in 1982, he would later return to the franchise to pen The Joker: Year of the Villain V1 #1 (December 2019). Barbeau reprised her role as Selina Kyle in Batman: The Animated Series, and Russell's Batman and Doubleday's Joker both made CGI cameos in the 2023 movie The Flash.

That's... a completely plausible idea for a Carpenter Batman film. If I can get over the hump of Carpenter directing a Batman movie (and in the early Eighties, I get the idea he would've been open to a lot of things) then I can totally imagine Carpenter wanting that cast in those roles.

And now, I want to actually see that movie.

I like Silver's ideas with this.

A Carpenter/Russell collaboration on a Batman during the early '80's would have been a treat to see.

You can hear Doubleday's Joker laugh at the beginning of the following clip.


And again at the 1:26 mark here.


He wasn't a big name actor, but he'd have been perfect as the Carpenterverse Joker.