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We all know about Batman Unchained, and we've already discussed ways the film series might have course corrected in the late nineties. The premise of this thread is different. I want you to imagine that Batman & Robin was a huge critical and commercial success and that fans loved the direction in which the franchise was heading. They loved the expanded Bat Family, the multiple villains, the costume changes, new vehicles and general toyetic feel of the film. They loved the lighter tone, the Silver Age comic influences and evocation of the sixties TV show. They loved how cartoonish and over-the-top it all was, and they didn't have a problem with the way Bane was depicted.

Your challenge now is to brainstorm ideas for a spiritual sequel that would have been released around 1999-2001. It has to take all the things that characterised Batman & Robin and go even further with them. It needs to be toyetic. The Bat Family must be expanded further. There must be multiple villains, but you need to choose characters that will fit the increasingly goofy and family-friendly tone. There have to be costume changes and new vehicles, and you must come up with reasons to justify them. If you're going to adapt plot points from a comic, it should either be a Silver Age story or one that you can alter to fit the lighter tone. Above all, it has to be a marketable crowd pleaser catering to audiences that loved B&R.


The idea here is not to create a good film, but to create a popcorn movie that continues the B&R approach and satisfies your affiliates at the McDonald's Corporation. Imagine we're a bunch of clueless Hollywood suits sitting around a boardroom responding to focus groups and market research analysts who are all telling us the same thing: that audiences loved B&R and want more of the same.

Which character(s) would you bring in to expand the Bat Family? Batwoman, a new Robin, Azrael, Ace the Bat-Hound? In keeping with the increasingly cartoonish trajectory of the series, I'd have gone with Bat-Mite. There was a trend in the late nineties and early noughties for live action movies based on cartoon shows which often featured real actors interacting with fully or partially animated characters. The Casper films (1995-98), The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle (2000) and the Scooby-Doo movies (2002-04) being just a few examples. Alan Cumming's performance as the Great Gazoo in The Flintstones: Viva Rock Vegas (2000) is a good example of a Bat-Mite-esque movie character from that era.


I'd make Bat-Mite entirely CG and have him serve as the movie's Jar Jar. Officially I'd say he was in the film to make audiences laugh, but his real function would be to annoy everyone above the age of ten. As for who'd voice him, I'm not sure. The Simpsons was very popular back then, so maybe someone like Dan Castellaneta, Harry Shearer or Hank Azaria. Or how about Burt Ward? His storyline would more or less follow his debut story – 'Batman Meets Bat-Mite' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #267, May 1959) – in depicting him as a well-meaning troublemaker who keeps getting in the way but ultimately redeems himself. He'd also get his very own suit-up montage.

I'd also bring in Aunt Harriet for extra comic relief. Doris Roberts would have been good in the role. There'd be lots of humorous scenes of Alfred trying to distract Aunt Harriet from what's really happening in stately Wayne Manor. Bat-Mite's shenanigans would naturally complicate matters.

For villains, I'd follow the B&R formula of having two main bad guys (Freeze and Ivy), a third henchman villain (Bane) and a cameo by a fourth minor villain (Floronic Man). For one of the main villains, I'd choose King Tut. Movies and TV shows with an ancient Egyptian flavour were popular around that time. For example, Stargate SG1 (1997-2007), The Mummy (1999) and The Mummy Returns (2001). Batman 5 could have adopted a similar aesthetic to those productions.

I'd skip Tut's origin story and have Gordon recap it verbally. That way he could show up fully formed like Two-Face and Mr. Freeze did in the previous Schumacher films. His hideout could resemble an ancient temple and be located in the abandoned Egyptian wing of one of Gotham's old museums.


My top pick for an actor to play him would be Jeff Goldblum. He would have been a box office draw at the time thanks to his lead roles in Independence Day (1996) and the Jurassic Park movies. It actually wouldn't have been all that different from his performance as the Grandmaster in Thor: Ragnarok (2017), only he'd have been younger and a lot crazier.


His goons could have dressed like the Jaffa from the Stargate franchise.


Plot wise, you could adapt aspects of 'Secret of the Sphinx Sinister' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #508, November 1981), since the villain in that story, Pharaoh, was created as a stand-in for King Tut. There's also a scene in Bat-Mite's debut story where he conjures several giant objects in a warehouse, including a model sphinx. When the villains try to flee, Bat-Mite uses his powers to make the sphinx move. He does this in an attempt to assist the Dynamic Duo, but the plan backfires and enables the criminals to get away. I can imagine a similar scene occurring in the movie.


For the second main villain, I'd use Clayface. Only I'd combine elements from different versions of Clayface instead of basing the character on just one incarnation. To begin with, I'd use the alter ego of the fourth Clayface, Sondra Fuller (aka Lady Clay), so that we could have a glamorous female villain to play off against King Tut. Fuller's Clayface had all the same powers as the more famous Matt Hagen version, and that would allow for some spectacular special effects sequences.


I'd completely disregard Fuller's back story from the comics and instead base her cinematic origins on those of the Basil Karlo Clayface. Only instead of having her be a washed-up horror movie star, I'd make her more like Norma Desmond (Gloria Swanson) in Billy Wilder's Sunset Blvd (1950) – a washed-up starlet whose looks have faded and whose career is on the rocks.


Roland Daggett could appear in a similar capacity to Woodrue in B&R. I'd present him as a corrupt cosmetics mogul who persuades Fuller he can revive her career through an experimental rejuvenation process (this whole storyline would derive influence from the Evelyn Grayce subplot in Batman: Bride of the Demon (1990)). The process would backfire and she'd be reborn as Clayface. Most of the time she'd resemble her beautiful younger self, but she'd occasionally revert to her monstrous clay form during action scenes or times of emotional stress. She'd kill Daggett (and as a nod to Sunset Blvd, I'd have her say, "All right, Mr. Daggett, I'm ready for my close-up" as she delivers the coup de grâce) before forming an alliance with Tut.

As for how and why Tut and Clayface would team up, I'd have it so that Fuller had portrayed Cleopatra in an old Hollywood epic, similar to Liz Taylor's performance in Cleopatra (1963).


She'd transform herself back into this guise and use the movie to convince the mentally unstable Tut that she's the real Cleopatra. Through her alliance with him, she'd set out to reclaim the glory that the film industry is presently denying her. For casting, I think Jennifer Lopez might have been a good pick. She was a rising star at the time and had great chemistry with Clooney in Out of Sight (1998).


Schumacher would have had a blast overseeing the design of all her glamorous costumes. There could even be a scene where she captivates King Tut by performing a big musical number from one of her old Hollywood movies. In fact J-Lo could have produced an entire album to tie in with the film like Prince did for the 1989 movie.

Is this all sounding terrible enough so far?

We've got Goldblum as King Tut and J-Lo as Clayface for our two main villains, with Daggett also making a cameo. For the fourth henchman villain I'd choose Solomon Grundy. He's big, dumb, strong and has comedic potential. To explain his inclusion, there could be a scene where King Tut reads from the Scroll of Life/Book of the Dead/whatever in an attempt to resurrect a mummy in the museum, but instead accidentally resurrects Grundy from the swamps outside Gotham. Since Tut was the one who spoke the sacred words, it would be to him that Grundy pledges his loyalty. I don't know who could have played him. Maybe the Big Show or another wrestler of similarly immense proportions.

Schumacher tended to apply a signature colour to each of his villains. For Riddler it was green. For Two-Face it was purple-red. For Freeze it was blue. And for Ivy it was pink, red and green. In keeping with that tradition, the dominant colours in my movie would be yellow and red: sand yellow/gold for King Tut and clay red for Clayface.

Moving on to our heroes, I saw this manip posted on another site.


I'd re-colour Clooney's costume to give it the classic grey and blue colour scheme from the comics, including the trunks. Robin would start out with his red and green outfit before becoming Nightwing halfway through the film and getting a new costume similar to his B&R suit (the more outfits, the more action figures we sell). Batgirl's outfit would need an upgrade too. It could be coloured purple and yellow like Yvonne Craig's or black and yellow like Dina Meyer's. Either way, the cowl could become a more permanent fixture of her ensemble.


We need some new vehicles too, so I'd have King Tut's master plan involve hijacking the newly launched Wayne Enterprises Watchtower space station (obviously based on the JLA Watchtower). Batman and Robin almost went into space courtesy of Mr. Freeze, but this time I'd have them go there for real. During the final act, King Tut would somehow reach the Watchtower and take control of it. Why? I don't know. Maybe he wants to use it to whip up a giant sandstorm or somehow distort time by manipulating Earth's gravity field. Something dumb like that.

Bat-Mite apologises for inadvertently frustrating Batman, Nightwing and Batgirl throughout the movie. To make amends, he magically creates new Bat-spacesuits and spaceships for them to use against Tut (and for WB to sell more toys). In a climax inspired by Moonraker (1979), the four heroes would fly into space and board the Watchtower for the final showdown.


They defeat Clayface and Solomon Grundy in zero-g combat and prevent Tut's plan from reaching fruition. Tut then flees the Watchtower in an escape pod locked on a collision course with Gotham. Batman pursues him in his own Bat-rocket, but as Tut is re-entering the Earth's atmosphere he bangs his head and reverts to his original identity of Professor William Omaha McElroy. Batman ejects from his own ship and glides to the outside of Tut's escape pod. He rescues the frightened professor, plants a Bat-bomb that destroys the pod at high altitude, then safely glides down to Gotham in time to watch the burning wreckage fall harmlessly into the sea.

Tut goes back to teaching, Clayface goes to Arkham, Grundy goes back to the swamp, Batgirl kisses Nightwing, Bat-Mite returns to his own dimension, and the heroes join Alfred and Aunt Harriet in time for breakfast at stately Wayne Manor. The movie ends with Batman, Nightwing and Batgirl running in front of the Bat-Signal like the final shot of B&R, only this time Bat-Mite appears in the air above them to tease his possible return in a sixth movie.


Running time 120 minutes. Rated PG for very mild violence and sensuality.

A few more ideas.

Batman mentioned Metropolis in Batman Forever, then namedropped Superman in B&R. I'd take it a step further and have him give a shout out to the Justice League in the fifth film. As they're flying up to the Watchtower, Nightwing could say something like, "Couldn't you have built this thing closer to home?" and Batman could reply, "I'll suggest moving it at the next JLA meeting." Something along those lines would be delightfully lame.

I also feel McDonald's should feature prominently in at least one scene. We saw the logo in the background of Schumacher's earlier films, but perhaps this time Batman, Nightwing and Batgirl could actually enter a McDonald's restaurant while pursing King Tut's men? Or at the very least we could have a scene where the three of them pass a drive-through, Batman flashes his 'Forever' credit card and Nightwing could shout "yoink!" as he and Batgirl grab the takeouts. We could then use that footage in the Happy Meal promos.

Finally, what about the title? Batman Immortal. Batman Resurrected. Batman: Age of Heroes. Batman Millennium. Batman Ascends.

Anyway, those are just a few of my ideas to use as an example. Feel free to expand on them if you like. Or if you can come up with a better (i.e. worse) idea for a B&R sequel, then go for it. Brainstorm something completely different if you like, using any villains or characters you think would be appropriate for this type of a film. Maybe you could have the finale take place underwater and have the heroes wear Bat-scuba gear as they pilot Bat-water-skis and a Bat-submarine. Maybe you'd like to bring in Tim Drake as the new Robin, or have Batwoman join the team.

But it's got to be camp, it's got to be toyetic, and it's got to sell Happy Meals.

I enjoyed reading that.

Leave the idea with me. I'll have to give this some considered thought.

Villains- King Tut + Killer Moth
New Hero- Batwoman, naturally
Vehicles- Batwoman cycle, new Batmobile, new Robin cycle, new Nightwing cycle, new Batgirl cycle
Costumes- Bright blue and soft gray Furst-style Batman armor, red and green and black Robin armor, blue and black Nightwing armor, purple and yellow Batgirl armor, red and yellow Batwoman armor

Kathy Kane returns to Gotham City following an extended archaeological expedition with her partner William Omaha McElroy. McElroy already has delusions of grandeur but that gets kicked into overdrive when an Egyptian hieroglyphic tablet falls on his head, causing a split personality to emerge. Armed with his goofy origin and believing himself to be an Egyptian pharaoh, McElroy wages a campaign of terror (or series of passing annoyances) on Gotham City.

Meanwhile, at stately Wayne Manor, Alfred announces that he's retiring, shocking Bruce, Dick and Barbara to their cores. With Alfred leaving, Barbara ponders whether or not it's time for her to move on as well. Dick isn't far behind Barbara in that respect either.

Elsewhere, Kathy Kane is the toast of Gotham City, becoming a regular fixture on Gossip Gertie's new TV show. Kathy adores the spotlight at first but when McElroy begins his rampage of aggravating Gothamites, she feels responsible for his condition and his actions because it was she who insisted he accompany her on the excavation. Assuming the identity of Batwoman, Kathy makes it her personal mission to capture King Tut and give him the help he obviously needs.

This brings Batwoman into conflict with the Terrific Trio. Batman, Robin and Batgirl seem determined to beat the snot out of King Tut and lock him up whereas Batwoman seeks his rehabilitation. Not only are Killer Moth and King Tut tripping each other up, so are Batwoman and the Terrific Trio.

Complicating Kathy's mission is Killer Moth, a Batman-style villain who thwarts law enforcement efforts to arrest criminals. Killer Moth's presumption that King Tut is a villain instead of a pharaoh offends Tut to his core, causing a rivalry between the two villains that threatens the city itself. There's also her new love interest, Bruce Wayne.

For his own part, Bruce sees the bat-family breaking up. So maybe it's time for Batman to retire as well so that Bruce can live happily ever after with Kathy?

The Terrific Trio and Batwoman's first showdown with King Tut and Killer Moth goes horribly wrong as the heroes are not working together as a team and essentially everybody is fighting everybody else with no real planning or coordination.

The relationship between Kathy and Bruce intensifies, as Kathy feels like a jerk for not telling Bruce her secret identity and him experiencing similar inner conflict.

Later, Batman, Robin, Batwoman and Batgirl find themselves overwhelmed with countering the combined forces of King Tut and Killer Moth. In Batman and Robin's first encounter with King Tut, Robin's motorcycle gets destroyed during a battle atop a giant typewriter... so it's time for an upgrade. Dick decides his days as Robin are over. It's time for him to assume the identity of Nightwing... and get a Nightwing-themed motorcycle.

As all that's going on, the rivalry between King Tut and Killer Moth intensifies, culminating in Killer Moth overpowering and capturing King Tut. Strapped to a conveyer belt, King Tut is about to get dropped into an industrial sized vat of McDonald's French fry oil*. Just in the nick of time, he's rescued by Batwoman and the Terrific Trio, who have put aside their differences to work together... one final time.

Batwoman rescues King Tut, who quickly turns the tables on her and subdues her. He's got the drop on her but before he can make another move, Batman smacks him in the head with something, restoring the McElroy identity. McElroy quickly surrenders.

In the middle of the battle, Batwoman and Batman discover each other's secret identities.

Meanwhile, Batgirl and Nightwing are overwhelmed by Killer Moth, his gadgets and his thugs until McElroy summons his own followers ("The Charioteers") and orders them to rescue the Batgirl and Nightwing, with assists from Batman and Batwoman.

Alfred retires and returns to England, Barbara goes with him initially, Dick goes solo (but promises to drop in on Bruce once in a while) and Batman's new partner is Batwoman. And Bruce's new girlfriend is Kathy.

The movie ends with Dick and Barbara going back to college together, where they both attend an Egyptology class taught by Professor McElroy.

Are we allowed a post-credit scene? After credits roll, the camera fades from black into the Batcave. Bruce and Kathy are enjoying an intimate dinner in the Batcave. Bruce reaches into his pocket and is about to pull out an engagement ring when out of thin air appears Bat-Mite, played by Gilbert Gottfried with the aid of CGI. He says "How could you ever think about retirin'? The fun's only just getting started!" Bruce and Kathy glance at each other in absolute shock, cut to black, end of movie.

* No, rly, that was the best McDonald's tie-in I could think of. Afaik, boiling in oil was more typically a Roman punishment than an Egyptian one. But, eh...

Top marks, colors. Killer Moth's an appropriately colourful choice of villain, and your storyline offers a good way of introducing Batwoman while circumventing the problem of her non-relation to the Schumacher Batgirl. You also continued the Schumacher trend of ignoring the love interest (Julie) from the preceding movie, while the subplot about Dick and Barbara flying the coop, and Alfred retiring, would continue the family themes from the previous two films. That would add some heartfelt drama in between the action for those of us who appreciated the Alfred storyline in B&R.

I like the idea of Tut's goons being the Charioteers (cinematic heirs to the Hockey Team from Hell). After Freeze's Freezemobile in B&R, Tut would need a similarly toyetic vehicle for his own movie. Some kind of souped-up rocket-powered chariot would be ideal, with weapons projecting from the wheels like in Ben-Hur (1959). This would also offer the potential for an amusement park ride to tie in with the movie.

The giant typewriter is a nice touch. I was thinking about something like that myself. Some of the giant statues and neon signs in B&R were already veering towards a Dick Sprang-era Gotham. It wouldn't be too much of a leap to progress from those to a giant typewriter.


You also get bonus points for incorporating McDonald's into Tut's death trap. That scene would be a nice throwback to the cliff-hanger endings in the sixties TV show.

Gilbert Gottfried as Bat-Mite is a stroke of genius. I never even considered him, but now that I think about it he's clearly the best and only man for the job. I've got a grotesque mental image of a CG or puppet Bat-Mite with live action Gottfried's face awkwardly superimposed over its head.


I can just see the exasperated looks a head-bobbling Clooney would give him whenever he speaks.


You could sell Bat-Mite plush toys for kids, and when the owner squeezes his belly Gottfried's voice yells back at them. I somehow doubt it would be as loveable or popular as all the Baby Yoda merchandise we're currently seeing, but it'd make a great kitsch collectable.

A few more ideas. Chief O'Hara could appear in a minor role as Gordon's right-hand man.

BF and B&R both include a scene where the villains tamper with the Bat-Signal. In BF the Riddler turns it into a question mark, and in B&R Ivy and Bane steal it and adapt it into the Robin-Signal. This time I'd have Tut somehow project an animated scarab beetle into the sky which would crawl up and eclipse the Bat-Signal. It wouldn't make any scientific sense, but it'd be a cool visual image.

Should we also push for trophies in the Batcave? It could be explained that the dinosaur is a relic from Freeze's attack on the museum in B&R, and the giant coin could feature in one of King Tut's crimes.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 14 Jan  2021, 15:50
Top marks, colors. Killer Moth's an appropriately colourful choice of villain, and your storyline offers a good way of introducing Batwoman while circumventing the problem of her non-relation to the Schumacher Batgirl. You also continued the Schumacher trend of ignoring the love interest (Julie) from the preceding movie, while the subplot about Dick and Barbara flying the coop, and Alfred retiring, would continue the family themes from the previous two films. That would add some heartfelt drama in between the action for those of us who appreciated the Alfred storyline in B&R.

I like the idea of Tut's goons being the Charioteers (cinematic heirs to the Hockey Team from Hell). After Freeze's Freezemobile in B&R, Tut would need a similarly toyetic vehicle for his own movie. Some kind of souped-up rocket-powered chariot would be ideal, with weapons projecting from the wheels like in Ben-Hur (1959). This would also offer the potential for an amusement park ride to tie in with the movie.

The giant typewriter is a nice touch. I was thinking about something like that myself. Some of the giant statues and neon signs in B&R were already veering towards a Dick Sprang-era Gotham. It wouldn't be too much of a leap to progress from those to a giant typewriter.

(https://i.postimg.cc/9XJRjP0x/signs.png)

You also get bonus points for incorporating McDonald's into Tut's death trap. That scene would be a nice throwback to the cliff-hanger endings in the sixties TV show.

Gilbert Gottfried as Bat-Mite is a stroke of genius. I never even considered him, but now that I think about it he's clearly the best and only man for the job. I've got a grotesque mental image of a CG or puppet Bat-Mite with live action Gottfried's face awkwardly superimposed over its head.

(https://i.postimg.cc/QC4HkDvL/gilbert.png)

I can just see the exasperated looks a head-bobbling Clooney would give him whenever he speaks.

(https://i.postimg.cc/WzbdkzW6/Clooney.gif)

You could sell Bat-Mite plush toys for kids, and when the owner squeezes his belly Gottfried's voice yells back at them. I somehow doubt it would be as loveable or popular as all the Baby Yoda merchandise we're currently seeing, but it'd make a great kitsch collectable.

A few more ideas. Chief O'Hara could appear in a minor role as Gordon's right-hand man.

BF and B&R both include a scene where the villains tamper with the Bat-Signal. In BF the Riddler turns it into a question mark, and in B&R Ivy and Bane steal it and adapt it into the Robin-Signal. This time I'd have Tut somehow project an animated scarab beetle into the sky which would crawl up and eclipse the Bat-Signal. It wouldn't make any scientific sense, but it'd be a cool visual image.

Should we also push for trophies in the Batcave? It could be explained that the dinosaur is a relic from Freeze's attack on the museum in B&R, and the giant coin could feature in one of King Tut's crimes.

Thank you! I sort of pulled the whole thing out of my... hat. But if it was to be a real movie, I would've wanted to go all the way with the late Golden Age influence. Stuff like Robin showing up in costume to give a lecture to college students or police cadets or something. I rather enjoy the absurdity of a masked vigilante giving criminology lessons to people who wield legitimate law enforcement authority and the training to match.

Yeah, loading the Batcave up with souvenirs is a must and the dinosaur from B&R was my guess for the origin of the thing. Maybe the giant penny could be a relic from Batman's first encounter with Two-Face that we never got to see? I'd also like to see glass cases containing the B89, BR and BF suits since the Golden and Silver Ages had a weird fetish for memorials, statues, etc.

I dashed my post off and I didn't want to labor over things too much. But I thought it might be thematically useful if Gordon also retired. Gordon's replacement, of course, would eventually be Chief O'Hara. The way I see it, O'Hara has been the chief for fifty years or something so he's due for a promotion.

As to the Charioteers, I figured they rode on vehicles sort of like Segways (with a chariot-themed "shell") that can race along at high speeds, drop smoke bombs, fire offensive weapons (that never seem to cause any real damage or death) and stuff like that for a high speed chase involving them and Batgirl and Robin.

Another idea was that yet another Batmobile gets destroyed. Batman looks at his growing list of allies and jokes about getting a "Bat-Minivan". Gotta have quips and stuff.

Even had an idea for Batman 6. Following along with the comics influence we're working of B89 and BR being the early Golden Age and BF-B5 being the late Golden Age, we could finally transition to the Silver Age. For that, I'd want to use Roxy Rocket more as a villain for Nightwing, Blockbuster as a villain for Batman and the new Robin (Jason Todd) and Professor Milo as a villain for Batwoman. Naturally, all of the villains would have to be connected to each other somehow. But I guess maybe that's a discussion for a separate thread.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 14 Jan  2021, 16:52Yeah, loading the Batcave up with souvenirs is a must and the dinosaur from B&R was my guess for the origin of the thing. Maybe the giant penny could be a relic from Batman's first encounter with Two-Face that we never got to see? I'd also like to see glass cases containing the B89, BR and BF suits since the Golden and Silver Ages had a weird fetish for memorials, statues, etc.

We know the Schumacher Batman had battled Two-Face before the bank heist in BF, so there's no reason the giant coin couldn't be attributed to one of their earlier encounters. I'm surprised Schumacher didn't put trophies from the earlier films in the Batcave in BF. I know there's a Batman Returns batarang hanging in the armoury, but it's barely noticeable. Schumacher made sure to feature the Riddler and Two-Face costumes prominently in Arkham, so I think he'd have been on board with putting similar Easter eggs in the Batcave.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 14 Jan  2021, 16:52I dashed my post off and I didn't want to labor over things too much. But I thought it might be thematically useful if Gordon also retired. Gordon's replacement, of course, would eventually be Chief O'Hara. The way I see it, O'Hara has been the chief for fifty years or something so he's due for a promotion.

Introducing O'Hara in this way would give Schumacher the opportunity to put his own stamp on the police commissioner role. He inherited Hingle's Gordon from Burton, but he could recreate O'Hara from scratch in his own idiosyncratic style.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 14 Jan  2021, 16:52As to the Charioteers, I figured they rode on vehicles sort of like Segways (with a chariot-themed "shell") that can race along at high speeds, drop smoke bombs, fire offensive weapons (that never seem to cause any real damage or death) and stuff like that for a high speed chase involving them and Batgirl and Robin.

Lol. Now I'm visualising Tut's goons riding round Gotham on Segway-style chariots yelling "Ya!" and cracking the reins, even though there are no animals pulling them along. An Egyptian-themed Batman movie would be unironically awesome.

For Tut's first scene, I thought he could enter wearing a creepy Egyptian mask. The dramatic music would swell and the audience would be misled into thinking this is going to be a dark and sinister villain...


...then the mask comes off and underneath it's just, uh, a camp Jeff Goldblum, uh, simpering in an, uh, uh, unintimidating manner while his burly henchmen look on in embarrassment. He'd have to play it exactly like this (except Tut wouldn't actually kill anyone):


This version of King Tut would be the perfect successor to Arnold's Mr. Freeze and a suitable foil for Clooney's Batman.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 14 Jan  2021, 16:52Another idea was that yet another Batmobile gets destroyed. Batman looks at his growing list of allies and jokes about getting a "Bat-Minivan". Gotta have quips and stuff.

The BF Batmobile drove up a wall. The B&R Batmobile leapt over rooftops. Prior to its inevitable destruction, what would the new Batmobile do? We could have it sprout wings and fly before being shot down. Or would that be going too far? Is there even such a thing as 'too far' where this movie is concerned?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 14 Jan  2021, 16:52Even had an idea for Batman 6. Following along with the comics influence we're working of B89 and BR being the early Golden Age and BF-B5 being the late Golden Age, we could finally transition to the Silver Age. For that, I'd want to use Roxy Rocket more as a villain for Nightwing, Blockbuster as a villain for Batman and the new Robin (Jason Todd) and Professor Milo as a villain for Batwoman. Naturally, all of the villains would have to be connected to each other somehow. But I guess maybe that's a discussion for a separate thread.

Blockbuster would actually be a great henchman villain to follow Jeep Bane in Batman 5. I'd wager most young Batman fans aren't familiar with him, but old school comic aficionados will appreciate what a popular character he was during the sixties. Tut's not a physically intimidating antagonist, so he needs someone like Blockbuster to do his fighting for him.

Bare bones concept:

•   Mad Hatter as the main villain, continuing the Riddler and Poison Ivy's themes of mind control and manipulation
•   Gordon has retired and bumbling O'Hara is the new chief
•   Ala the comics, Hatter implants devices in "free coffee and donuts" tickets he hands out in front of police stations, allowing him to control most cops in the city, inciting them to steal for him and riot
•   O'Hara keeps insisting he will get the situation under control
•   Hatter has a huge Alice in Wonderland themed lair with a long table as the centrepiece
•   Clayface as the secondary grunt, substituting Bane
•   Clayface impersonates Batman, Robin and Batgirl. He has them joining in with the theft and anarchy, which he considers to be the role of a lifetime
•   The goal is complete alienation of the public and, giving them no faith in those who serve them, before they are finally taken over
•   The endgame is installing a mind control device to broadcast over all of Gotham, turning people into mindless zombies, converging on a radioactive pool of protoplasm in Gotham Harbor, turning them into Clayface creatures
•   Batman and the team construct a new radio wave proof suit which they wear in the finale
•   They fly into Gotham in a new vehicle, destroying the transmitter

A villain hideout inspired by Wonderland, as envisaged by Joel Schumacher, could have been spectacular. Any ideas for who could have played Hatter? Martin Short perhaps?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 16 Jan  2021, 14:57
A villain hideout inspired by Wonderland, as envisaged by Joel Schumacher, could have been spectacular. Any ideas for who could have played Hatter? Martin Short perhaps?

(https://content7.flixster.com/question/54/38/81/5438813_std.jpg)

It's tempting to consider Robin Williams for the Hatter. If nothing else, it would finally get that casting option off the table forever.

But yeah, I think Short probably would've been the best bet for a Schumacher take on Hatter.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 14 Jan  2021, 20:29Lol. Now I'm visualising Tut's goons riding round Gotham on Segway-style chariots yelling "Ya!" and cracking the reins, even though there are no animals pulling them along. An Egyptian-themed Batman movie would be unironically awesome.

For Tut's first scene, I thought he could enter wearing a creepy Egyptian mask. The dramatic music would swell and the audience would be misled into thinking this is going to be a dark and sinister villain...

(https://i.postimg.cc/FRnBxZJz/tut.png)

...then the mask comes off and underneath it's just, uh, a camp Jeff Goldblum, uh, simpering in an, uh, uh, unintimidating manner while his burly henchmen look on in embarrassment. He'd have to play it exactly like this (except Tut wouldn't actually kill anyone):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kf3NCm4z2E

This version of King Tut would be the perfect successor to Arnold's Mr. Freeze and a suitable foil for Clooney's Batman.

Agreed. When I suggested Tut as the villain, one consideration was music. I figured Eliot Goldenthal could use some Middle Eastern musical motifs for anything involving Tut. It would've been something new and innovative for Batman's musical repertoire at that time. Zimmer and co. dabbled in Eastern influences a bit but I was thinking of something very Arabesque and baroque for King Tut's theme/motifs. Goldblum aside, I saw Tut as a return to a sort of zany supervillain. BF had two kind of over the top villains but B&R lacked Jim Carrey's charisma and manic energy. Goldblum would bring a different type of energy to Batman 5 but it would still be something very charismatic, I think.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 14 Jan  2021, 20:29The BF Batmobile drove up a wall. The B&R Batmobile leapt over rooftops. Prior to its inevitable destruction, what would the new Batmobile do? We could have it sprout wings and fly before being shot down. Or would that be going too far? Is there even such a thing as 'too far' where this movie is concerned?

Two-Face nearly exploited the Batmobile's vulnerabilities during the wall climbing sequence in BF. Freeze destroyed a Batmobile because Batman's luck just plain worked against him in B&R.

So for B5, I think Batman would want something more mobile. I was envisioning a small canopied sport coupe that somehow makes crazy jumps like KITT or the General Lee. I think Batman would want a vehicle with maximum mobility. To make it toyetic-yet-story-applicable, devise a sequence where Batman has to run a road blockade to perform a rescue or stop a bomb or something but the road is blockaded by the Charioteers. They open fire on the Batmobile. Is this the end for Batman? No, as he nears the road blockade, he hits a button and the Batmobile turbo boosts over the blockade and keeps zooming along without breaking stride.

The canopy could pay off later in the movie. To make it toyetic-yet-story-applicable, you could devise a sequence where the Batmobile is airborne over water, Batman realizes the car's about to sink, he blows the canopy free from the car's main chassis, the canopy releases a parachute to glide lazily into the water... and then it sinks! Is this the end for Batman? No, as soon as the canopy is fully submerged, Batman flips a switch on the dashboard, the parachute gets cut loose, an outboard engine appears from who the hell even knows where, Batman steers the canopy underwater and there's your mini-Batmarine, boss.

Later, show the Batmarine parked next to a stylized new Batboat in the Batcave.

You know what's kind of scaring me rn? Some of these ideas we're batting around (Goldblum as King Tut) aren't too bad.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 26 Jan  2021, 14:23Goldblum aside, I saw Tut as a return to a sort of zany supervillain. BF had two kind of over the top villains but B&R lacked Jim Carrey's charisma and manic energy. Goldblum would bring a different type of energy to Batman 5 but it would still be something very charismatic, I think.

I never knew how badly I wanted to see Goldblum play King Tut until now, but the more I think about it the funnier the idea seems. I wonder if there's still a chance it could happen. I know Tut wouldn't fit in with the gritty approach Matt Reeves is taking, but maybe he could appear in one of the DCEU films opposite Keaton?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 26 Jan  2021, 14:23Two-Face nearly exploited the Batmobile's vulnerabilities during the wall climbing sequence in BF. Freeze destroyed a Batmobile because Batman's luck just plain worked against him in B&R.

So for B5, I think Batman would want something more mobile. I was envisioning a small canopied sport coupe that somehow makes crazy jumps like KITT or the General Lee. I think Batman would want a vehicle with maximum mobility. To make it toyetic-yet-story-applicable, devise a sequence where Batman has to run a road blockade to perform a rescue or stop a bomb or something but the road is blockaded by the Charioteers. They open fire on the Batmobile. Is this the end for Batman? No, as he nears the road blockade, he hits a button and the Batmobile turbo boosts over the blockade and keeps zooming along without breaking stride.

The canopy could pay off later in the movie. To make it toyetic-yet-story-applicable, you could devise a sequence where the Batmobile is airborne over water, Batman realizes the car's about to sink, he blows the canopy free from the car's main chassis, the canopy releases a parachute to glide lazily into the water... and then it sinks! Is this the end for Batman? No, as soon as the canopy is fully submerged, Batman flips a switch on the dashboard, the parachute gets cut loose, an outboard engine appears from who the hell even knows where, Batman steers the canopy underwater and there's your mini-Batmarine, boss.

Later, show the Batmarine parked next to a stylized new Batboat in the Batcave.

What if all of the Bat-vehicles were designed to transform into other vehicles? The Batmobile could turn into the Batsub. Robin's Redbird cycle could turn into the Nightwing Water-ski. The Batwing could transform into the Bat-rocket. Transforming toys have always been popular. They'd be perfect for the Kenner line or a Happy Meal tie-in.

A few more thoughts.

One of the deleted scenes from Batman Forever shows Kilmer's Batman driving past a building fronted by an Egyptian sculpture. Could this be an Easter egg foreshadowing Schumacher's King Tut? Unlikely, but for the purpose of this thread it'll do.


Site member Azrael suggested the idea of the film referencing the Plagues of Egypt. Instead of the Gotham rivers turning to blood, they could turn to raspberry syrup. Instead of a plague of boils, it could be a computer virus that triggers a Superman III-style montage of Gotham's machinery going haywire.

Tut would require a ditzy and scantily clad moll. Two-Face had Sugar and Spice. Mr. Freeze has Miss B. Haven. Tut's moll could be called Isis or Nefertiti, and she'd be an attractive but dim sidekick who was constantly vying unsuccessfully for his attention. In visual terms, I'm thinking of Amanda Barrie in Carry On Cleo (1964).


B&R had lots of ice imagery, so I think this movie needs lots of fire and sand. Candles, torches, explosions and pyrotechnics of every description. There should also be a set piece involving sinking sand, possibly occurring inside a giant sand timer.


I'm a total noob when it comes to digital art and manips, but here's my feeble attempt at giving Clooney's costume the classic blue and grey colour scheme from the comics. It's a rough concept piece, but it gives an impression of what he would have looked like in my Batman 5.


Batman 5's obviously a placeholder name. For the real title, I'm leaning heavily towards BATMAN MILLENNIUM. Why? Well, it has that cheesy showbiz ring to it, it evokes the ancient world themes associated with King Tut, and it would have been topical for a movie released in 1999. I'm assuming the release date would have been June 1999, and that Warner Bros. would have rushed it into production like they did Batman & Robin. So unless anyone can think of a better title, I say we go with Batman Millennium (1999).

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 26 Jan  2021, 14:23You know what's kind of scaring me rn? Some of these ideas we're batting around (Goldblum as King Tut) aren't too bad.

I know what you mean. The whole point of this thread was to brainstorm the worst Batman movie ever, but now I'm starting to wish this film actually existed. If nothing else, it would have been the funniest Batman movie since the 1966 film.

I'm also starting to think it might make an amusing April Fool prank to post on our social media pages later in the year. We could pretend that Batman Millennium was a real movie that was in development before Batman Unchained. The explanation could be that prior to the backlash, Warner Bros. was so emboldened by the positive B&R test screenings that they pre-emptively began work on a sequel. Joel Schumacher was in line to direct, with Akiva Goldsman set to write. The main villain would have been King Tut, with the studio hoping to court Jeff Goldblum for the part. Clooney, O'Donnell and Silverstone were all set to return, and there were plans to introduce Bat-Mite, with Gilbert Gottfried being the frontrunner for the role. There were also plans to retire Pat Hingle's Gordon and replace him with Chief O'Hara. In terms of tie-ins, there were plans for a comic book adaptation by Denny O'Neil, a Kenner toy line, a Happy Meal line, a series of collectable cups by Pepsi, a Six Flags roller-coaster ride based on the chariot chase scene, and a Mario Kart-style racing game titled Bat Racers developed by Acclaim for the PC, Playstation and Nintendo 64.

I wonder how many people would believe this, and if any other sites would report it as true. We could even whip up some more manips and fake concept art. Perhaps even a fake poster and teaser trailer.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 27 Jan  2021, 00:13I know what you mean. The whole point of this thread was to brainstorm the worst Batman movie ever, but now I'm starting to wish this film actually existed. If nothing else, it would have been the funniest Batman movie since the 1966 film.

I'm also starting to think it might make an amusing April Fool prank to post on our social media pages later in the year. We could pretend that Batman Millennium was a real movie that was in development before Batman Unchained. The explanation could be that prior to the backlash, Warner Bros. was so emboldened by the positive B&R test screenings that they pre-emptively began work on a sequel. Joel Schumacher was in line to direct, with Akiva Goldsman set to write. The main villain would have been King Tut, with the studio hoping to court Jeff Goldblum for the part. Clooney, O'Donnell and Silverstone were all set to return, and there were plans to introduce Bat-Mite, with Gilbert Gottfried being the frontrunner for the role. There were also plans to retire Pat Hingle's Gordon and replace him with Chief O'Hara. In terms of tie-ins, there were plans for a comic book adaptation by Denny O'Neil, a Kenner toy line, a Happy Meal line, a series of collectable cups by Pepsi, a Six Flags roller-coaster ride based on the chariot chase scene, and a Mario Kart-style racing game titled Bat Racers developed by Acclaim for the PC, Playstation and Nintendo 64.

I wonder how many people would believe this, and if any other sites would report it as true. We could even whip up some more manips and fake concept art. Perhaps even a fake poster and teaser trailer.

The concept art would probably be the biggest challenge.

However, tons of artists do stuff on commission. I'm a fan of Scott McDaniel from way back. Esp when it comes to his Batman stuff. And pretty recently, he announced he was open for commissions once more.

I imagine he could knock out sketches for George Clooney's Batman, O'Donnell's Robin, Silverstone's Batgirl, Gottfried's Bat-Mite, Goldblum's Tut and Freddie Prinze Jr (or somebody) as Killer Moth.

And, what the hay, let's cast Rene Russo as Batwoman/Kathy Kane. Because I'm pretty sure everybody loves Rene Russo anyway. I should add that Kathy Kane isn't necessarily miles away from Lorna. I think this would be believable enough for a lot of people. Perhaps the most believable.

There's never been an outlet for me to say on this forum that I rly do enjoy pranks, trolling, sh*tposting and performance art. An April Fool's prank about BATMAN MILLENNIUM is right in line with my sensibilities.

I remember when a similar prank got launched ages for a non-existent Orson Welles version of Batman. Basically, the prank made it sound like the movie would've been Batman Begins of 1943 or whenever. The "story" got a ton of traction at the time. And even now, you still find the odd person who never learned it was a prank.

Plus... well, there's no telling what this joke might lead to. If the prank rly catches on... I mean, yes, Schumacher is gone (sadly) but this could still spin off into something real. You never know...

I'm not on any social media sites and I don't update the Batman-Online Facebook or Twitter pages, so if such a hoax were to be perpetrated then someone else would have to do it. But that person would be welcome to use anything I've posted in this thread, be it text, ideas or images. In the meantime, we can always create Batman Millennium fan art for our own amusement and continue sharing ideas in this discussion. Batman Millennium could be our gift to the internet. Creepypasta gave the world Slender Man, so we could give humanity a third Joel Schumacher Batman movie.



That's ^ the same opening weekend as The Matrix, just two weeks before The Mummy came out. It would have still been in theatres when The Phantom Menace was released the following month.

Every Batman movie in the Burton-Schumacher series has a different bat-emblem on the poster. The 1989 movie has the basic design. BR has the snow version. BF has the question mark emblem. B&R has the bat-emblem overlaid with Robin's symbol. What would Batman Millennium have? I was thinking of either a gold emblem that's half in shadow like a partial eclipse, a sandstone emblem wreathed in flames, or else a black silhouette emblem held in front of the sun by a scarab beetle. In ancient Egyptian art scarabs were typically depicted holding up balls of dung to eclipse the sun. Substituting that dung with this movie's logo seems like appropriate symbolism.

To end this post, I would like to apologise in advance for the following image. To misquote another Jeff Goldblum movie, I was so preoccupied with whether or not I could that I didn't stop to think if I should. The result is a concept image grotesque beyond description, and not just because of my blatant lack of photo editing skills.





Brace yourselves.





Are you ready?





Then behold – Gilbert Gottfried as Joel Schumacher's Bat-Mite:

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 27 Jan  2021, 19:54
I'm not on any social media sites and I don't update the Batman-Online Facebook or Twitter pages, so if such a hoax were to be perpetrated then someone else would have to do it. But that person would be welcome to use anything I've posted in this thread, be it text, ideas or images. In the meantime, we can always create Batman Millennium fan art for our own amusement and continue sharing ideas in this discussion. Batman Millennium could be our gift to the internet. Creepypasta gave the world Slender Man, so we could give humanity a third Joel Schumacher Batman movie.

I can't help thinking that Schumacher might've gotten a kick out of fun prank like this. That's what I want to believe.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 27 Jan  2021, 19:54

(https://fontmeme.com/permalink/210127/756069e1cf0689d0383e462ff9eee86e.png)

(https://fontmeme.com/permalink/210127/fe0e8bf53085cff03c24c93b79479144.png)

Love it!!

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 27 Jan  2021, 19:54That's ^ the same opening weekend as The Matrix, just two weeks before The Mummy came out. It would have still been in theatres when The Phantom Menace was released the following month.

True. But for as big of a juggernaut as TPM was, other films were still quite successful. Stuff like Notting Hill and other romantic comedies were amazing counterprogramming to TPM. Considering how movie tickets were sold in 1999, a rising tide truly did lift all boats. I've never been able to shake the suspicion that some percentage of The Matrix's success came from people who went to the theater to buy TPM tickets, found them all sold out (or near enough) and so they decided to check out The Matrix (or Fight Club or whatever) instead. What percentage is anybody's guess. But I am certain there was a big spillover effect. TPM was #1 for several weeks but it's not like EVERYBODY was left out in the cold.

I don't think TPM would've done any considerable harm to Batman Millennium. If B&R didn't wreck the franchise (which can be argued, obviously) then there's no reason to think an outside force like TPM could do it either.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 27 Jan  2021, 19:54Every Batman movie in the Burton-Schumacher series has a different bat-emblem on the poster. The 1989 movie has the basic design. BR has the snow version. BF has the question mark emblem. B&R has the bat-emblem overlaid with Robin's symbol. What would Batman Millennium have? I was thinking of either a gold emblem that's half in shadow like a partial eclipse, a sandstone emblem wreathed in flames, or else a black silhouette emblem held in front of the sun by a scarab beetle. In ancient Egyptian art scarabs were typically depicted holding up balls of dung to eclipse the sun. Substituting that dung with this movie's logo seems like appropriate symbolism.

For teasers and trailers, I like the idea of the bat symbol with sand getting blown around it (perhaps getting gradually covered with each successive teaser and trailer?), kind of like the snow in the BR posters.

But for the BM posters, I like your idea of a scarab serving as a visual counterpoint to the bat symbol. It's appropriate symbolism but I also think it's just a plain powerful image.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 27 Jan  2021, 19:54
To end this post, I would like to apologise in advance for the following image. To misquote another Jeff Goldblum movie, I was so preoccupied with whether or not I could that I didn't stop to think if I should. The result is a concept image grotesque beyond description, and not just because of my blatant lack of photo editing skills.





Brace yourselves.





Are you ready?





Then behold – Gilbert Gottfried as Joel Schumacher's Bat-Mite:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZKBPztWd/got-mite.png)

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/qUn01S2U4I46s/giphy.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBJRz_33Y8

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 28 Jan  2021, 00:29True. But for as big of a juggernaut as TPM was, other films were still quite successful. Stuff like Notting Hill and other romantic comedies were amazing counterprogramming to TPM. Considering how movie tickets were sold in 1999, a rising tide truly did lift all boats. I've never been able to shake the suspicion that some percentage of The Matrix's success came from people who went to the theater to buy TPM tickets, found them all sold out (or near enough) and so they decided to check out The Matrix (or Fight Club or whatever) instead. What percentage is anybody's guess. But I am certain there was a big spillover effect. TPM was #1 for several weeks but it's not like EVERYBODY was left out in the cold.

I don't think TPM would've done any considerable harm to Batman Millennium. If B&R didn't wreck the franchise (which can be argued, obviously) then there's no reason to think an outside force like TPM could do it either.

Batman Millennium would have had over a month in theatres before TPM showed up, so you're probably right about them not impacting one another's box office. But what about the battle for merchandise? Jar Jar and Gottfried-Mite would have been in direct competition to be the must-have toy of Christmas 1999. Which movie's merchandise would have sold the best?

One movie I think Batman Millennium would have impacted at the box office is The Mummy. They both would have been Egyptian-themed fantasy adventure films packed with humour and action. If Batman Millennium had bombed, it might have put audiences off wanting to see a similar movie just two weeks later. If it had been a success, then it might have created an appetite for similar films that could have benefitted The Mummy. Either way, The Mummy would have been caught in Batman Millennium's slipstream.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 28 Jan  2021, 00:29For teasers and trailers, I like the idea of the bat symbol with sand getting blown around it (perhaps getting gradually covered with each successive teaser and trailer?), kind of like the snow in the BR posters.

I can see this motif extending to the opening credits too. The opening titles of the first two Schumacher movies showed names appearing out of dark clouds and flying towards the camera, but in Batman Millennium we could replace those clouds with a swirling sandstorm crackling with electricity. Remember how the Warner Bros. logo transformed into the bat-emblem at the start of BF and B&R?


Well we could do something similar. The WB logo appears as usual before morphing into a sandstone version of the bat-emblem. Suddenly a hurricane of sand blasts across the emblem and wipes it from existence. This serves as our transition into the opening titles. We watch as names fly out of the storm one by one, until finally there's a blinding flash of lightning and the movie's title appears in gold font. Cut to obligatory suit-up scene.

I just realised that in my initial post I said the primary colours of this movie should be yellow and red, which are of course the colours of McDonald's. Perfect!


Speaking of McDonald's, here's my concept art for what Nightwing would look like in Batman Millennium. The eagle-eyed among you might spot some veeeeeeeeery subtle product placement in the background.


Here's the same image as a teaser poster. This would have appeared in cinemas, comic book stores, toyshops and McDonald's restaurants in early 1999.


Does anyone have any ideas for a suitably awful tagline?


Or we could parody The Phantom Menace's 'Every saga has a beginning' tagline and go with:

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 28 Jan  2021, 00:29True. But for as big of a juggernaut as TPM was, other films were still quite successful. Stuff like Notting Hill and other romantic comedies were amazing counterprogramming to TPM. Considering how movie tickets were sold in 1999, a rising tide truly did lift all boats. I've never been able to shake the suspicion that some percentage of The Matrix's success came from people who went to the theater to buy TPM tickets, found them all sold out (or near enough) and so they decided to check out The Matrix (or Fight Club or whatever) instead. What percentage is anybody's guess. But I am certain there was a big spillover effect. TPM was #1 for several weeks but it's not like EVERYBODY was left out in the cold.

I don't think TPM would've done any considerable harm to Batman Millennium. If B&R didn't wreck the franchise (which can be argued, obviously) then there's no reason to think an outside force like TPM could do it either.

Batman Millennium would have had over a month in theatres before TPM showed up, so you're probably right about them not impacting one another's box office. But what about the battle for merchandise? Jar Jar and Gottfried-Mite would have been in direct competition to be the must-have toy of Christmas 1999. Which movie's merchandise would have sold the best?

One movie I think Batman Millennium would have impacted at the box office is The Mummy. They both would have been Egyptian-themed fantasy adventure films packed with humour and action. If Batman Millennium had bombed, it might have put audiences off wanting to see a similar movie just two weeks later. If it had been a success, then it might have created an appetite for similar films that could have benefitted The Mummy. Either way, The Mummy would have been caught in Batman Millennium's slipstream.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 28 Jan  2021, 00:29For teasers and trailers, I like the idea of the bat symbol with sand getting blown around it (perhaps getting gradually covered with each successive teaser and trailer?), kind of like the snow in the BR posters.

I can see this motif extending to the opening credits too. The opening titles of the first two Schumacher movies showed names appearing out of dark clouds and flying towards the camera, but in Batman Millennium we could replace those clouds with a swirling sandstorm crackling with electricity. Remember how the Warner Bros. logo transformed into the bat-emblem at the start of BF and B&R?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 28 Jan  2021, 20:56

(https://i.gifer.com/714x.gif)

Well we could do something similar. The WB logo appears as usual before morphing into a sandstone version of the bat-emblem. Suddenly a hurricane of sand blasts across the emblem and wipes it from existence. This serves as our transition into the opening titles. We watch as names fly out of the storm one by one, until finally there's a blinding flash of lightning and the movie's title appears in gold font. Cut to obligatory suit-up scene.

Exactly, I was thinking the same thing.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 28 Jan  2021, 20:56
Speaking of McDonald's, here's my concept art for what Nightwing would look like in Batman Millennium. The eagle-eyed among you might spot some veeeeeeeeery subtle product placement in the background.

(https://i.postimg.cc/mgH9ZrPs/nightwing.png)

I'll putz around in Photoshop later and see what I can come up with too.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 28 Jan  2021, 20:56
Here's the same image as a teaser poster. This would have appeared in cinemas, comic book stores, toyshops and McDonald's restaurants in early 1999.

(https://i.postimg.cc/bNMbjnNg/nightwing-poster.png)

I've been thinking about the McDonald's tie-in commercial. Because you know there'd have to be one.

The best idea I had was a few Charioteers hitting up the drive-thru and ordering, idk, like a special tie-in Pharaoh Mac. Suddenly, one of them spots the Terrific Trio at a distance and hidden in shadow (because there's no way Clooney, O'Donnell and Silverstone would film a burger commercial) and the Charioteers race off. Cut to brief snippets of the Charioteer chase already in the movie. Then cut back to commercial footage, where the Charioteers get cut off by Batwoman in the middle of the road or something, but shot at an angle where we never rly see her face either (because Russo wouldn't be caught dead doing this type of thing either). Finally, cut to a picture of special novelty burger with cheesy voiceover like Order your specialty Pharaoh Mac in time for the new blockbuster BATMAN MILLENNIUM! LIMITED TIME ONLY!

The McDonald's thing is actually the one possible challenge here. Because McDonald's is McDonald's. But if this'd been Burger King, you could picture the tie-in a bit better. King/pharaoh, you know.

Whatever, I like McDonald's better anyway.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 28 Jan  2021, 20:56

Does anyone have any ideas for a suitably awful tagline?

'Batman's most pharaoh-t adventure yet!'

'Get set for a new millennium!'

'The Dark Knight Returns' (just to annoy fans of the darker Batman)

Or we could parody The Phantom Menace's 'Every saga has a beginning' tagline and go with:

'Every franchise has an ending.'

I suck at sloganeering. Since a subplot in my half-baked "treatment" called for exits for Dick-as-Robin, Gordon and Barbara-as-Batgirl and entries for Batwoman and O'Hara, perhaps the marketing might emphasize newness?

New Millennium, New Heroes?

One marketing idea might be pitting the villains against each other. "Pick a side" or something. My "treatment" shows King Tut and Killer Moth eventually go to guns with each other.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 28 Jan  2021, 22:03I've been thinking about the McDonald's tie-in commercial. Because you know there'd have to be one.

The best idea I had was a few Charioteers hitting up the drive-thru and ordering, idk, like a special tie-in Pharaoh Mac. Suddenly, one of them spots the Terrific Trio at a distance and hidden in shadow (because there's no way Clooney, O'Donnell and Silverstone would film a burger commercial) and the Charioteers race off. Cut to brief snippets of the Charioteer chase already in the movie. Then cut back to commercial footage, where the Charioteers get cut off by Batwoman in the middle of the road or something, but shot at an angle where we never rly see her face either (because Russo wouldn't be caught dead doing this type of thing either). Finally, cut to a picture of special novelty burger with cheesy voiceover like Order your specialty Pharaoh Mac in time for the new blockbuster BATMAN MILLENNIUM! LIMITED TIME ONLY!

I can visualise this quite easily. Presumably the same approach would be taken for any Pepsi/Coca-Cola commercials and music videos incorporating footage from the movie. Shoot a few extra scenes with stand-ins, then edit them together with clips from the film.

Here's a better look at Clooney's Batman Millennium costume.


Here's the teaser poster version.


Earlier in the thread I proposed a scene where a character is trapped inside a sand timer. Well I've now decided that in my version it will be Bat-Mite who's knocked unconscious by Tut's goons and imprisoned inside a timer. Here's an excerpt from Akiva Goldsman's script:


This stuff writes itself.

Here's my concept art for what Silverstone's Batgirl would look like in Batman Millennium. I've gone for a purple and yellow colour scheme as a tribute to Yvonne Craig's Batgirl.


You might think the McDonald's sign in the background is pure product placement, but I've decided that the yellow 'M' symbol will be a recurring motif throughout the movie. First of all, the M stands for Millennium – both the word and the Roman numeral M, which represents 1,000. It also stands for Bat-Mite. In keeping with the graphic novel theme, there will be a scene where one of the characters is reading the Blake and Mortimer book The Yellow "M" by Edgar P. Jacobs, one of the most famous and acclaimed Franco-Belgian comics ever written.


There will be another scene where the characters pass a cinema marquee promoting a Fritz Lang double bill of Metropolis (1927) and M (1931).


I've also decided that one of King Tut's quirks will be a fondness for M&Ms, only he refuses to eat any flavour that isn't yellow or gold. B&R has that goofy scene where Mr. Freeze is forcing his men to sing along to The Year Without a Santa Claus (1974), so my movie will have a scene where Tut is forcing his henchmen to sort through mountains of M&Ms, filtering out the yellow and gold ones and storing them in canopic jars for easy access. This also opens up the door for a promotional tie-in with M&Ms.

Oh, and the yellow 'M' also stands for McDonald's in case that wasn't already obvious.

Here's a look at the first wave of Batman Millennium merchandise. I created these myself, though the Batman Millennium logo I used was designed by Azrael.

Batman Millennium Topps trading cards - 'HEROES' starter pack.


Batman Millennium hot beverage mugs.


Batman Millennium videogame for Nintendo 64. I chose Acclaim as the developer, since they famously did such a bang-up job on the Batman & Robin game. There's more than one game based on Batman Millennium, but this one's a third-person adventure exclusive to the N64.


Sadly the game's development was rushed (as was the movie on which it's based) to coincide with the film's release date, and consequently it ended up with a Metascore in single digits.

I've decided what King Tut's master plan should be. Mr. Freeze tried to freeze Gotham, so Tut should attempt the opposite. In the movie's final act he rises above the city in a vast airship shaped like a golden scarab. It ascends to high altitude and blocks out the sun using a large round disc held by the scarab's front legs. In eclipsing the sun, Tut recreates one of the Plagues of Egypt described in the Book of Exodus. Following a suitably dramatic pause, the disc irises open to reveal a lens shaped like the Eye or Horus, which then directs and amplifies the sun's rays into a laser that threatens to slowly burn Gotham to the ground. This references another Plague of Egypt – the raining fire – and the scenario as a whole derives influence from LeRoi's master plan in Batman: Master of the Future (1991).


Batman and his allies have to fly up to the airship, do battle with Tut and destroy his solar lens before the people of Gotham are roasted alive. Clayface doesn't really care too much about Tut's master plan. As long as the movie studio execs that eighty-sixed her get incinerated along with everyone else, she's happy to watch Gotham burn.

I've also been thinking about Solomon Grundy, and as I see it there are two possible ways of handling his character. One approach would be to cast a wrestler in the role and make him an intimidating henchman for Tut. The other would be to go in the complete opposite direction and turn him into a goofy comic relief character. A sort of grey-skinned Herman Munster. This got me thinking about casting. Sadly Fred Gwynne passed away in 1993. However, Edward Herrmann portrayed Herman Munster in the 1995 prequel movie Here Come the Munsters.


Herrmann was 6'5 and had previously played the villain in Joel Schumacher's The Lost Boys (1987). He was accustomed to acting under heavy makeup, both in The Lost Boys and Here Come the Munsters. So if I were to go with the goofy Herman Munster-style version of Solomon Grundy, then I think Herrmann would be the best choice. I'm not altogether sold on this idea though. Considering Goldblum's Tut would be such a goofy villain to begin with, it might be better to go with a more intimidating pro-wrestler take on Grundy, just to even things out and offer a worthy physical challenge during the action scenes. But the comedic take on Grundy is an option worth thinking about.

Here's my concept art for what Schumacher's King Tut might have looked like, as portrayed by Jeff Goldblum in the late nineties.


He'd have a gold mask that would click on to the front of the headdress, but he'd only wear it briefly during his debut scene. He'd wear the headdress itself in maybe three or four scenes, such as when he's conducting raids or appearing in public. The rest of the time he'd dress less formally in comfy robes.

I've also created a concept image of what the Sondra Fuller Clayface would look like. First of all, this is how she looked in the comics.


And this is how I envisage the Schumacher version looking, as played by Jennifer Lopez.


I thought she could be informally known as Clay-Lo, and she'd release a single to tie in with the movie. She'd perform the A-track ('Moulded by Your Love') for King Tut during the film, while the bonus track ('Feet of Clay, Heart of Stone') would be heard over the end credits. I might create a better CD cover later, but for now here's a very rough mock-up.


Since I'm partly basing Clayface's origin story on Bride of the Demon, I've decided to go ahead and use Ra's al Ghul instead of Roland Daggett as the secondary villain responsible for Fuller's transformation. Schumacher reduced one of Batman's greatest foes to a dumb henchman role with his treatment of Bane, but I reckon I can go one step further. I imagine Schumacher's version of Ra's being an eccentric cosmetic surgeon with a hard-to-place comedic accent, similar to Serge from Beverly Hills Cop (1984).


He'd have the same facial hair and flamboyant fashion sense as the comic book Ra's, but that's where the similarities would end. Instead of being the head of the League of Assassins, he'd run a rejuvenation clinic in Gotham known as the Lazarus Pit. The interior décor would be rendered in an ornate Middle Eastern fashion, but the 'immortality' offered within would be little more than superficial beautification attained through plastic surgery. That is until he attempts an experimental new procedure on Sondra Fuller and inadvertently creates Clayface. Ra's would have a relatively minor role in Batman Millennium, comparable to Jason Woodrue's role in Batman & Robin.

There's also going to be a fight scene between Clayface and Batgirl. This will take place before the showdown on Tut's airship, similar to how the showdown with Ivy took place prior to the battle at the observatory in Batman & Robin. While Tut sets off to destroy Gotham, he'll leave Clayface to distract Batman and his allies. Clay-Lo will do this by using the captive Bat-Mite to lure them into a trap at the abandoned Lazarus Pit. Batgirl arrives on the scene first and engages in one-on-one combat against Clay-Lo. Here's an excerpt from the script.


I wanted to get another Sunset Blvd. reference in there at the end. Following this scene, Batman and Nightwing arrive at the Lazarus Pit and Clay-Lo responds by taking on the form of Batgirl to confuse them. Bruce and Dick aren't sure which Batgirl is the real one, but luckily Bat-Mite saw Clay-Lo transform just before they arrived. With Bat-Mite's help, they identify the real Batgirl and Batman knocks Clay-Lo unconscious using a special anaesthetic that inhibits her ability to transform. There would then follow a cheesy 'the power was inside you all along' moment as the heroes release Bat-Mite from the sand timer.


Ugh. I feel nauseous just reading that.

So then Chief O'Hara and the cops show up at the Lazarus Pit and Batman hands them a sample of the anaesthetic to give to Dr. Burton so they can keep Clay-Lo under control at Arkham. Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl and Bat-Mite race outside in time to see King Tut's scarab ship eclipsing the sun. They then realise that the kidnapping of Bat-Mite and the confrontation at the Lazarus Pit were merely diversionary tactics. They look up at the eclipse in despair and wonder how they can possibly reach Tut in time to save Gotham.

It's then that Bat-Mite, his self-confidence restored, uses his powers to create new costumes and vehicles for the four of them to use during the finale. Until this point, Bat-Mite has been wearing an Adam West-style costume, but he now gets his own rubber costume introduced during a suit-up montage, complete with close-up shots of his sculpted nipples, codpiece and backside. The four of them then fly up to attack Tut's airship for the final showdown.

It's pretty hard to even think of going lighter or goofier than B&R, it makes sense that even if it was a success after it, for some balance, they would go a little darker like with Scarecrow or Man-Bat or Scarface.

But if not that, Mad Hatter and yes Clayface seem the biggest villains who could fit a light movie. A story with Mad Hatter and mind control, but in a light, family-friendly story does seem a plausible follow-up, he could be played by Robin Williams, Martin Short or maybe Steve Martin. Good idea with the police somehow seeming bad, getting involved in stealing.

I could also see past villains like Catwoman or Riddler returning (Catwoman pretty different from in BR), enough time had passed that that happening could seem exciting, more so than seeing just new villains, you could even if you will de-canonize the Burton films to allow getting Schumacher versions of Catwoman, the Joker, the Penguin. Or, if it was after rather than at the same time as The Mummy, Poison Ivy returning but teaming up with Ra's Al Ghul (Antonio Banderas or Pierce Brosnan).