im having my yearly watch of Batman 89 and i have a couple of questions:
Did batman let go of Jack when he fell into the acid? is there a definitive answer, im inclined to think he slipped out of his grip.
Also, after Joker has resurfaced after his fall he goes to the doctor to fix his face. His clothes are a purple suit with orange shirt. Did the acid dye his clothes or did he get changed?
There was another thread discussing about Jack Napier's fall awhile ago. I have to admit, I thought Batman dropped Jack on purpose the first time I watched the scene because of the crazed look in Keaton's eyes. But after repeat viewings, I believe he dropped Jack by accident; as you could see he was struggling to hold onto his hand too.
And yes, I thought the chemical acid bleached his clothes purple too.
It's never definitively answered but I like to think that Batman tried to save him initially, but then remembered how he just murdered a guy in cold blood a few seconds ago so decided to let him fall.
Besides, what we he do if he saved him? Arrest him for the police? Beat him up?
This Batman didn't have a 'no killing rule', although he wasn't a murderer.
There's also this from Batman's first comic:
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.stack.imgur.com%2FTPyGP.png&hash=d176aa13d04c49834d9c04617f2523257234fe9d)
I sort of think it falls in the middle. He was trying to pull him up but as Jack started slipping it was tugging Batman with him and rather than follow him in he let Jack lie in the bed he'd made. Well Grissom and Eckhart technically made that bed but you know what I mean.
Wasn't he wearing a purple suit when they were talking about sacking Axis? So it would make since that he still had it on under his trench coat while carrying out the break in.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fbatman%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fa4%2FJackNapier.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20080913222101&hash=52b3fc8814e2fa0dd3088e7591ef6ec6226dcc47)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 14 May 2016, 07:53
I have to admit, I thought Batman dropped Jack on purpose the first time I watched the scene because of the crazed look in Keaton's eyes. But after repeat viewings, I believe he dropped Jack by accident; as you could see he was struggling to hold onto his hand too.
Wasn't the crazed look because Batman was kinda recognizing/remembering Jack Napier from his childhood?
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Sun, 15 May 2016, 00:10
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 14 May 2016, 07:53
I have to admit, I thought Batman dropped Jack on purpose the first time I watched the scene because of the crazed look in Keaton's eyes. But after repeat viewings, I believe he dropped Jack by accident; as you could see he was struggling to hold onto his hand too.
Wasn't the crazed look because Batman was kinda recognizing/remembering Jack Napier from his childhood?
I thought the plot showed that Batman didn't recognise Joker from his past until he was later asked "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?"; the same question Jack asked right after murdering Bruce's parents. That triggered Bruce's memory.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 15 May 2016, 00:59
I thought the plot showed that Batman didn't recognise Joker from his past until he was later asked "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?"; the same question Jack asked right after murdering Bruce's parents. That triggered Bruce's memory.
I just always thought Bruce was scared of him as he's hanging on to his hand. The look in his eyes is almost one of fear. Look at his face when he backs away after dropping Jack. It's as if he's seen him before. In that moment, Bruce just can't place where or why... not yet. That comes later, when he's in the Batcave. It's not so far fetched if you think about it.
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Sun, 15 May 2016, 07:50
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 15 May 2016, 00:59
I thought the plot showed that Batman didn't recognise Joker from his past until he was later asked "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?"; the same question Jack asked right after murdering Bruce's parents. That triggered Bruce's memory.
I just always thought Bruce was scared of him as he's hanging on to his hand. The look in his eyes is almost one of fear. Look at his face when he backs away after dropping Jack. It's as if he's seen him before. In that moment, Bruce just can't place where or why... not yet. That comes later, when he's in the Batcave. It's not so far fetched if you think about it.
Looked to me like it was a fear of taking a swim in that pea green sh*t below.
^ LOL. Yep, that too.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 15 May 2016, 00:59
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Sun, 15 May 2016, 00:10
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 14 May 2016, 07:53
I have to admit, I thought Batman dropped Jack on purpose the first time I watched the scene because of the crazed look in Keaton's eyes. But after repeat viewings, I believe he dropped Jack by accident; as you could see he was struggling to hold onto his hand too.
Wasn't the crazed look because Batman was kinda recognizing/remembering Jack Napier from his childhood?
I thought the plot showed that Batman didn't recognise Joker from his past until he was later asked "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?"; the same question Jack asked right after murdering Bruce's parents. That triggered Bruce's memory.
To me this is the definitive post in the topic. I don't believe Batman has figured out yet that Jack was his parents killer. Even when he does he doesn't try to kill him, he only kills him in the end out of necessity.
^Yes, but I think to discount the notion or possibility that Batman might be beginning to recognize Jack Napier, in the moment he's holding him above the acid vat, is walking along the edge of willful blindness. I say that because given Bruce Wayne's traumatic history with this man, it's more than reasonable to assume that a part of Bruce's subconscious is beginning to remember Jack, just as you would if you hadn't seen someone in 25-30 years, but you're certain that you had seem them before. Just as you would if you were to recall the aged face of your own parent's killer. I think that moment was meant to show that there was some connection between them, though Bruce doesn't fully put it together until the end of the film. There's little other explanation as to the almost terrified look on Batman's face in that scene.
What is in the film is that Keaton has a sudden shift in expression when he begins to lift Jack, which leads to Batman dropping him soon after.
It'd be easiest to assume that it was just his weight that made Batman struggle to pull him up, but it could also be a look of sudden familiarity. We may never know.