Batman-Online.com

I dont think it was necessarily a "Burton" influence, but Danny Elfmans score I think is one of the main components of bringing B:TAS to the level it acheived. From what Elfman created, Shirley Walker took and expanded upon to create a whole new world but still kept it grounded in the current feel and mood we were used to.

I think the timelessness of Burtons movies was a major influence on the series, plus a gritty Batman - we could have gotten Superfriends or Superpowers Batman again.

The look of the Batcave and especially the shape of the Batmobile.

The "timeless" thing was done purposely, they didnt want to pinpoint a year. Which I think was very cool. You had retro automobiles, high tech computers, and black and white television. The deco look of the architecture. It was awesome.

Two words - Art Deco

Yeah, I too thought the "Art Deco" look was extremely beautiful. It sort of reminded me of the Flescher Superman cartoons from the 1940's....very cool!

The sound e/fx like the voice actors, music, & sounds were all really great too.

Just like they created something special in 1989 with Batman, Timm and company did the same thing in creating TAS.

Quote from: shadowbat69 on Sun, 11 Nov  2007, 17:35
I dont think it was necessarily a "Burton" influence, but Danny Elfmans score I think is one of the main components of bringing B:TAS to the level it acheived. From what Elfman created, Shirley Walker took and expanded upon to create a whole new world but still kept it grounded in the current feel and mood we were used to.

Elfman's score, i agree.

Just like what Paul Dini has said on the 'Legends of the Dark Knight' documentary, the audiences and Batman fans were primed by the atmosphere and darker undertones of Burton's films when it came time to do 'TAS.' People felt that the likes of Tim Burton and Frank Miller had really set the stage for the direction that Batman as a character should be going, and Timm and Co. just continued that mindset while giving it their own flavor with the Art Deco elements, aspects from other types of animation and action films, film noir devices of storytelling and pacing.

A lot of people today claim that the show isn't all that special in retrospect but I very much disagree. There are just so many positive elements of Batman: The Animated Series that makes it a standard that hasn't been reached. I mean looking at cartoons and even more modern DC adaptations including 'The Batman' and 'Legion of Super Heroes' is quite evident.

The original Animated Series had a 30 piece orchestra and a brand new score on all 85 original FOX episodes composed by the amazing Shirley Walker from 'Apocalypse Now!' who had also conducted the orchestra on 'BATMAN.' The elements of storytelling such as the editing and pace of the show as more cinematic then cartoony. Characters were delt with appropriately...I mean there's not a single Gotham Knight or Rogue that was featured that isn't given their due in a single, or handful of episodes.

And I mean damn, there were episodes like 'POV,' 'A Bullet For Bullock' and 'I Am The Night' that were strictly hardboiled detective and crime stories without relying on well known costumed foes like The Riddler or Catwoman...a technique that a show like 'The Batman' could never get away with now, since it features a costumed rogue in each episode.

Plus prior to the show, shows like 'GI JOE' and the animated 'Rambo' spin off had to be watered down with the use of lasers. 'TAS' was the first animated program to allow villians to use live munitions.

Now take a look at shows today. Wall to wall synthetic music that never underscores...absurdly fast edits and action, refusing the audience to take a breather with the story...and on smaller notes take a look at the firearms used by Gotham PD in 'The Batman.' They're like toy guns as opposed to actual guns.

'Batman: The Animated Series' is hands down the greatest example of a comic book character brought to life through the animation media.

CFE

I'd say the Elfman sound, the architecture of Gotham and the look of the vehicles.

For those that haven't seen the pilot, here it is.


The animation is more fluid, but that is to be expected.  We can see where the title sequence came from.

One thing I always liked about the pilot is the fluidity and kinetics of it.  It's a standard I don't think the main show ever really matched.  When I read the comics, I think of Batman as being able to move so quickly that it seems plausible somehow that he could dodge a bullet.  The pilot communicated that idea pretty well with a pretty heavy 1940's/noir/crime atmosphere.  BTAS is an awesome show and I'll never say otherwise but I felt like the animation wasn't always quite up to par with the material.

What he all agree on, I think, is that the first seasons of the show were perhaps the best and most intelligent piece of children's animated TV ever made. In fact, an adult can enjoy some elements in the show as much as a child. You don't see episodes like "Heart of Ice" everyday in most american adventure/superhero cartoons.

QuoteA lot of people today claim that the show isn't all that special in retrospect but I very much disagree.

I find it's mostly young people who didn't have GI Joe and the Superfriends in the early early childhoods who say that.  By modern standards, sure, there's probably not much to write home about concerning TAS (beyond some extremely well written episodes, that is).  In 1992 though, that animation style and that level of sophistication was absolutely foreign to children's programming.  Even now, BTAS has the novelty of being totally watchable by both children and adults.  I can't think of any too many animated shows you can say that about.

QuoteYou don't see episodes like "Heart of Ice" everyday in most american adventure/superhero cartoons.

Right on.

If i remember right on a police file on The Joker or somthing like that it says under name Jack Napier i can't remeber which episode it was from sorry.

The creation of the show really - if not for the movie, there wouldn't have been the Animated TV show - which was awesome  :)

Quote from: catman on Thu,  7 Aug  2008, 21:38
The creation of the show really - if not for the movie, there wouldn't have been the Animated TV show - which was awesome  :)

Exactly right. By the way, I love your avatar.

WOW! Ive never seen that pilot before that is Grade A BADASS BATMAN!!!

As a kid, I never understood why the BTAS universe had black and white TV's.

Now I do.

Because it enhances the show's art deco style. And that's really all that matters.

"Jack Napier" was referenced at least twice. I can't recall which episode had the file, but he's mentioned by name in Dreams in Darkness.

Ill start. For one, Joker's outfit was always green shirt with orange vest, in the 89 movie it was in reverse. Same in AS

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JrMAg7gZ5FQ%2FTK2Qrbl12DI%2FAAAAAAAAAQc%2F_QRm7v-O7x0%2Fs1600%2Fjokhat2.JPG&hash=544ce8a817f2aea19268c498adf5f7dd2e788746)

Jack Napier's name
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JrMAg7gZ5FQ%2FTKbaOq1wDeI%2FAAAAAAAAAQI%2Fm_utB78rmjM%2Fs1600%2Fjokertasname2.PNG&hash=f493007c2b708d309682339859469f6ae713c3e8)

Penguin's look
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F6%2F6f%2FPengers.JPG&hash=084f72de0f1f00e7c2f4eb6c59bc2deff735bbe2)

Batmobile looks like the movie batmobile with shields...
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carrentals.co.uk%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F11%2Fbatmobile1.jpg&hash=21470f1fbf4bb21687c63ed89943dd178476d125)

...and even has the same functions
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chickslovethecar.com%2Fimages%2Ftas%2FGP007.jpg&hash=e2e0a31b82c4ac763789833ffe6e596db23e053a)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chickslovethecar.com%2Fimages%2Ftas%2FShields6.jpg&hash=d9e98e67a5246cfd98efeaa756dcffa9f1dc765b)

Selina Kyle was a blond in the series, same as Michelle.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fdcanimated%2Fimages%2F4%2F4a%2FSelina1.jpg&hash=1378de6a1a2eda5fa1e9de74e2ce3789b28d48b4)

Catwoman's look in TAS was basically the same, the suit just wasn't  black or shiney.   Some of the statues you see occasionally in TAS Gotham City, like Gotham Plaza in "Christmas with The Joker" was clearly Burton-inspired.  I'm sure there's more. 

Quote from: gordonblu on Mon, 24 Jan  2011, 02:38
Selina Kyle was a blond in the series, same as Michelle.

Hmm, Im not sure about that. Its very possible that she was blonde because she was a blonde in Returns, but the thing is that the Golden Age Selina was also blonde, so it didnt originate from the movies

I merged this topic with an older existing topic

Theres also Tim Burton's cameo but I dont know in which episode - http://www.eeggs.com/items/3156.html (http://www.eeggs.com/items/3156.html)

It was called "Off Balance".

He actually looks more like Jon Peters in it

Quote from: Paul (ral) on Mon, 24 Jan  2011, 14:03
It was called "Off Balance".

He actually looks more like Jon Peters in it

Oh thanks, Ill check it out

Cameo? In the animated series?

Quote from: GothamAlleys on Mon, 24 Jan  2011, 11:57
Hmm, Im not sure about that. Its very possible that she was blonde because she was a blonde in Returns, but the thing is that the Golden Age Selina was also blonde, so it didnt originate from the movies

according to www.comicvine.com, Selina was almost always a brunette except for Batman #35 (1946) when she was depicted as a redhead. Bruce Timm also stated that Warner Brothers insisted he base the animated Catwoman off of BR ( same as Penguin), which is why she reverted to back to a brunette on TNBA.

Blonde Selina in Batman #3, though, according to Silver Nemesis, who provided the comparison, the blonde hair is actually wig:
http://www.batmanmovieonline.com/content/returnscomicanalysis/dress.jpg

But how about this?
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JrMAg7gZ5FQ%2FTTHIvEl8S2I%2FAAAAAAAAA2s%2F4PhvXHmohLI%2Fs1600%2F9lives.jpg&hash=402b23c19804dad7a517b77fc0a11688b566c82f)

BatmAngelus is correct about the blonde Selina in Batman #3. She was wearing a wig and had dark hair underneath.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fwig.jpg&hash=15701b5d532a57085bb5e5634ad0656904643a0f)

QuoteBut how about this?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that her hair colour in Batman #35 was the result of a mistake made by the colourist. The Golden Age Selina usually had dark hair, like most other versions of the character.

The blonde Catwoman in B:TAS is almost certainly a conscious reference to Batman Returns.

Ok Im convinced

When did Catwoman start carrying a whip? Was it the Adam West show?

I think the first instance of her carrying a whip was in ?A Christmas Tale? (Batman #39, 1947), her 8th chronological appearance in the comics. She kept the whip coiled around her waist like a belt, then surprised Batman with it when he tried to apprehend her.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2FB39.jpg&hash=9d6bd900b99a71bc97056acd8482bbecdd212e0e)

It?s worth mentioning though that in her previous appearance, ?Nine Lives Has the Catwoman? (Batman #35, 1946), Batman had actually attacked Catwoman with a whip.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2FB35.jpg&hash=a1d5922e6a7c10f43336235de1f6b474313486c4)

Wait wait wait, shes blonde in yet another issue.

Hmm, can somoene post a screencap of  that Burton cameo?

I don't know about a Burton cameo but I do recall a junior version of Schumacher appearing in the animated series.

Quote from: GothamAlleys on Wed, 26 Jan  2011, 14:46
Hmm, can somoene post a screencap of  that Burton cameo?

The character was called Twitch.

(https://www.batman-online.com/twitch_off_balance.jpg)

Thanks. Hmm, it does look like him once you think about it. And supposedly according to that link I posted it was confirmed that its him

Ok I put everything we gathered so far in my blog - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2011/01/animated-series-movie-references.html (http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2011/01/animated-series-movie-references.html)

Hey GothamAlleys, that is some excellent research on the influence of the Burton films on the animated series. Batman fans really love their character and movies. Bravo to you sir and all those who contributed.

Cheers!

Thanks! I just updated it with more

Quote from: GothamAlleys on Mon, 31 Jan  2011, 22:08
Thanks! I just updated it with more

Absolutely brilliant blog GothamAlleys.  I particularly like the screencap comparisons.  Keep it up!

GothamAlleys, I just want to say that your blog is incredible. Very well researched and explained. And the pictures you use to compare similarities are spot on each time. One of the best Batman websites on the internet. You deserve way more recognition.

This blog will be bookmarked forever. Excellent work GothamAlleys!

Great article sir!

Thanks very much guys!

I always thought it was interesting that the end credits music was two parts of the Batman '89 score. The first was taken from the Batmobile Charge cue and the second was from the Batwing III cue.

The episode 'The Mechanic' is almost one big reference to Batman Returns. Batman is chasing the Penguin and gets his car smashed up, Penguin finds Batman's repairman, and forces him to rig it. The references? Well, Penguin can now control the Batmobile with a remote control. The Penguin's duck also appears, but only as a leftover attraction from an amusement park... pretty much what his original duck vehicle was.

Oh, and in Joker's Millions, the imposter Joker wipes his forehead, taking away the make-up. Pretty much the opposite of Joker in Batman, when his flesh-toned make-up is wiped off in the same fashion.

I love how the show uses unique surrealism plus elments of both the comics and the Burton movies on the first 3 seasons yet still on TNBA Catwoman's costume and design looks like Burton's design.

Quote from: Slash Man on Sun,  3 Jul  2011, 02:49
The episode 'The Mechanic' is almost one big reference to Batman Returns. Batman is chasing the Penguin and gets his car smashed up, Penguin finds Batman's repairman, and forces him to rig it. The references? Well, Penguin can now control the Batmobile with a remote control. The Penguin's duck also appears, but only as a leftover attraction from an amusement park... pretty much what his original duck vehicle was.

The duck boat also pops up in "Birds of a Feather". And the Penguin's hideout in "The Mechanic" is almost exactly like the Artic World Pavillion seen in the movie.

I think the most interesting reference for me is the fact that the Joker is actually still named Jack Napier. Severely times in fact. They didn't exactly draw as much from the first Batman so much as Returns (at least what I could see). In Mask of the Phantasm we even see the Joker in his gangster days complete with black styled Jack Napier suit.

Did the animated series ever show the Joker's actual origin? Because I own the "Mad Love" comic and there is a brief panel showing the Joker falling into a chemical vat, almost an animated version of the scene from the movie. Was curious to know if they show ever recreated it.

I don't think so, but I'm pretty sure TNBA saw another flashback of the Jack Napier character. It's mentioned on and off, especially during the Creeper episode.

Quote from: HarryCanyon on Sat, 26 Jan  2013, 05:28


I love how the show uses unique surrealism plus elments of both the comics and the Burton movies on the first 3 seasons yet still on TNBA Catwoman's costume and design looks like Burton's design.

There's a funny story behind that. The Batman Returns Penguin design was forced upon them by the studio, and they had to discard their original character design for the Penguin (which is nearly identical to his appearance in TNBA). At the same time, Catwoman's initial design was also similar to her TNBA design, and even closer to the Returns version. For some reason, they changed that to her gray costume. I wish I knew the website that had these pictures, though.

He also forced to give Selina Kyle blonde hair to look like Michelle Pfeifer but didn't want to, so we got it then in Gotham Adventures it was revealed that she stopped dying her hair blonde and go back to brunette.