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Interesting article you might like to read:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/24182/dark-knight-rises-sequel-could-be-a-futuristic-rendition-of-batman-beyond

I have to say I despise Batman Beyond (or Batman of the Future as it's named here in the UK). Never liked seeing another Batman with Bruce Wayne merely as a supporting star or even cameo role. Let alone a teenage Batman. This show to me is basically "Kid Batman" (ala Kid Flash). And I thought the villains kind of sucked too. Did they ever use classic Bat villains, ever? The only time I was impressed was the "Return of the Joker" movie which had some ties to the original animated series. Annoyingly Batman The Animated Series hasn't been shown on British tv in over 10 years. Sky 1 last broadcast it on weekday mornings at 8am back in 2002. Since then it's vanished and without the dvd's I probably wouldn't see it. Batman Beyond however is constantly shown and boy is it irritating.

I don't think this idea will go anywhere personally. However thinking it over I found myself deciding that it could make an interesting movie. For one thing it would give us back a fantastic looking Gotham City albeit a futuristic kind. On the other hand I'd never want a series of films on the subject. But doing just a one off is something I think I'd get into for it's difference. Could this be a key for bringing back a fantastic comic booky style for Batman movies? I don't think I could handle Bruce Wayne on a zimmer frame for a whole trilogy though.

I wouldn't put too much stock into this as an indication of the next movie.  It's exactly what Uslan said at Comikaze 2012 back in the fall:
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2012/9/17/comikaze-report-michael-uslan-the-boy-who-loved-batman

QuoteUslan went on to address that he also relates to fanboy fantasies of different Batman films.  Using Batman Beyond as an example, he called the animated series "a great, great premise of character" and said, "As a fanboy only, not as a producer connected to the movies, sometimes I wonder, 'Man, what would it be like to see Bruce Wayne in his eighties played by Clint Eastwood?' "  Commenting also on The Dark Knight Returns, Uslan, again clarifying his thoughts to be "as a fanboy and not as a producer," shared that he's also realized, "Oh my God.  Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson are now exactly the right age for The Dark Knight Returns."

If only...

I love Batman Beyond, because it's a perfect passing of the torch. Terry is suitably serious about his work. He's trying to balance the teenage life thing, but that doesn't mean he takes his work as Batman any less seriously. And Bruce still being involved is great. But I think Terry stands well enough on his own that if there were to be stories set after Bruce died, I'd still be into it.

Timm and company making BB is the only reason it worked so well. In lesser hands, Terry would have become Batman of his own volition and it would have been a blatent teenage stereotype. Or it would have been a young Bruce being Batman ahead of time.

Thank God for Timm and company!

I wouldn't mind seeing a Batman Beyond movie. In fact I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about that than an adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns. So many elements of TDKR have already been referenced in the movies – especially in The Dark Knight Rises – that I really don't think there's much point adapting it now. Between Nolan's trilogy and the two animated films, we've already seen enough of that story. Batman Beyond, on the other hand, has been neglected in recent years. There's a lot of potential there.

I'd like to see Adam West portray the ageing Bruce Wayne, with Terry McGinnis' costume resembling the Lincoln Futura-inspired Batman armour from the Justice (2005-2007) maxiseries.


The shiny black and red aesthetic could extend to all his gadgets too, with his flying Batmobile looking like an updated version of the one from the sixties TV show.


Gotham could look like it did in the original series; basically a more futuristic version of the Gotham from Batman Returns.

Visually, a Batman Beyond movie could deliver something we haven't seen before in a live action Batman film. I doubt they'll really take the franchise in that direction, but I'd support the project if they did.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 28 Jan  2013, 19:54
I wouldn't mind seeing a Batman Beyond movie. In fact I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about that than an adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns. So many elements of TDKR have already been referenced in the movies – especially in The Dark Knight Rises – that I really don't think there's much point adapting it now. Between Nolan's trilogy and the two animated films, we've already seen enough of that story. Batman Beyond, on the other hand, has been neglected in recent years. There's a lot of potential there.

I'd like to see Adam West portray the ageing Bruce Wayne, with Terry McGinnis' costume resembling the Lincoln Futura-inspired Batman armour from the Justice (2005-2007) maxiseries.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Farmouredbatman_zps232c4ca3.png&hash=44179d80e3253bdbfd2875497521089eabbf273b)

The shiny black and red aesthetic could extend to all his gadgets too, with his flying Batmobile looking like an updated version of the one from the sixties TV show.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.favcars.com%2Flincoln%2Fconcepts%2Flincoln_concepts_1966_photos_1_b.jpg&hash=c7a043b42144a7ab420923f5d75d622bfe7f169e)

Gotham could look like it did in the original series; basically a more futuristic version of the Gotham from Batman Returns.

Visually, a Batman Beyond movie could deliver something we haven't seen before in a live action Batman film. I doubt they'll really take the franchise in that direction, but I'd support the project if they did.

I really liked your idea of an updated Adam West Batmobile lol And given it's recent auction it's back in the headlines again. Seems an appropriate time to homage it's image. Just hope they still give it an anti-theft device lol

I agree totally about The Dark Knight Returns. I think the animated movie is a good enough adaptation. To tell you the truth I get so sick of hearing about that graphic novel (and Batman Year One, Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum e.c.t). The way their constantly reported you'd be forgiven for thinking that they were the only decent Batman stories and that no others ever existed. They've all been covered to death. For me it seems a lot of Batman writers just try copying Frank Miller's style rather than just giving me their own takes and it gets kinda dull. Isn't it time we move Batman forward from the "Miller time" and try doing something as groundbreaking and new as that one in 1986 was? I had a discussion recently with a guy on here in relation to the Superman movies and how they should move on and forget Christopher Reeve's. Why I agree with "moving on" into something new I disagree with "forgetting" former greatness. But this same attitude I personally have for the Miller Batman era. Why can't it break away from his Dark Knight ideas without simply ignoring them for good? It just seems to me Frank Miller has taken over Batman so much you'd think he created the character.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Mon, 28 Jan  2013, 23:19To tell you the truth I get so sick of hearing about that graphic novel (and Batman Year One, Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum e.c.t). The way their constantly reported you'd be forgiven for thinking that they were the only decent Batman stories and that no others ever existed. They've all been covered to death.

Sign of the times, I guess. We live in a trade paperback world now. Those stories have been on bookshelves for so many years now that tastemakers and critics are familiar with only those comic books "graphic novels". I'd go so far as to say that a shocking percentage of "comic book fans" would be hardpressed to name ten Batman stories, much less the ten best, ten worst, ten most unforgivable, ten most overrated, ten best drawn/worst drawn, etc.

This is by no means unique to Batman either. It's strange now to live in a world where comics have never been more visible and in everybody's face and at the same time so widely ignored even by their supposedly most ardent followers.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 28 Jan  2013, 19:54
I wouldn't mind seeing a Batman Beyond movie. In fact I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about that than an adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns. So many elements of TDKR have already been referenced in the movies – especially in The Dark Knight Rises – that I really don't think there's much point adapting it now. Between Nolan's trilogy and the two animated films, we've already seen enough of that story. Batman Beyond, on the other hand, has been neglected in recent years. There's a lot of potential there.

I'd like to see Adam West portray the ageing Bruce Wayne, with Terry McGinnis' costume resembling the Lincoln Futura-inspired Batman armour from the Justice (2005-2007) maxiseries.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Farmouredbatman_zps232c4ca3.png&hash=44179d80e3253bdbfd2875497521089eabbf273b)

The shiny black and red aesthetic could extend to all his gadgets too, with his flying Batmobile looking like an updated version of the one from the sixties TV show.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.favcars.com%2Flincoln%2Fconcepts%2Flincoln_concepts_1966_photos_1_b.jpg&hash=c7a043b42144a7ab420923f5d75d622bfe7f169e)

Gotham could look like it did in the original series; basically a more futuristic version of the Gotham from Batman Returns.

Visually, a Batman Beyond movie could deliver something we haven't seen before in a live action Batman film. I doubt they'll really take the franchise in that direction, but I'd support the project if they did.

Very good post, Silver Nemesis. I enjoyed reading it. Good points. Strangely I had never made the Batman Beyond/60s Batmobile colour scheme connection on board until now.

This BB idea has been mentioned by some people - Michael E. Uslan (http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/01/25/batman-exec-producer-uslan-geeks-out-over-batman-beyond-movie) himself, BOF's Jett (http://www.batman-on-film.com/opinion_Jett_beyond-reboot-JL_12-7-12.html) in an Op-ed in his site.. Don't know, Batman Beyond always felt like an idea for a great self-contained "What if" story (basically the ROTJ film), stretched for a couple of seasons with filler material because it was met with financial success.

I think I'm one of the few people that would completely hate that idea. I never liked Batman Beyond (although I will admit some of the episodes where pretty good) for the same reason I have my reservations about TDKR, I despise the idea of Batman as a "legacy" character. Flash is a legacy character, so is Green Lantern, and hell Robin is too. But Batman? That's Bruce Wayne. In my perfect world, when Bruce quits or dies, that's it's. No more Batman.

Not to mention, if we where gonna see something like that post TDKR, I would think mainstream audiences would expect that to be Blake, not Terry. And I'm not interested in seeing that either.

I'm glad other people in this thread can see what I was getting at about the Futura-aesthetic. A Batman Beyond movie with that kind of look would be amazing on the big screen.

There are basically two potential routes for the Batman film franchise that I'd like to see taken at this point. I've already outlined these in other threads, but here's a quick summary anyway:



This would the first in an ongoing series of films seen from Dick Grayson's perspective. The middle aged Batman is already established, as are his enemies. But Robin is just starting out for the first time.

As far as casting for the villains goes, I'd love to see David Suchet play Oswald Cobblepot. Perhaps Jean-Claude Van Damme as Henri Ducard (the proper character from Blind Justice, not the Ra's decoy from Batman Begins).

I'd also like to see slightly more serious versions of the Riddler, Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze, as well as a more fantasy-oriented version of Scarecrow. And I'd like to see some of the more obscure villains make an appearance, especially the spookier characters like Gentleman Ghost, Solomon Grundy, Dala and the Monk and Man-Bat.



This would work best as a standalone film, perhaps to tide fans over while they're waiting for the next full-scale reboot.

In some ways Batman Beyond would make the perfect third entry in the Burton/Keaton trilogy. The story begins with the Joker already dead so there wouldn't be any conflict with the events of Batman 89. The only problem is that Burton and Keaton would never want to make it. I doubt either of them would ever want to return to the franchise now.

Adam West, on the other hand, has said on several occasions that he'd like to play the aging Bruce Wayne as a mentor to a new younger Batman. He's up for the part and he's the right age to play it. I say give him one last shot playing the Dark Knight in live action. After all, he's played Batman more times than almost anyone else:

•   Batman (1966-68)
•   Batman: The Movie (1966)
•   Batgirl (1967)
•   The New Adventures of Batman (1977)
•   The Legends of the Superheroes (1979)
•   SuperFriends: The Legendary Super Powers Show (1984)
•   The Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians (1985)
•   Batman: New Times (2005)

The only other actor to have displayed the same enduring commitment to the character is Kevin Conroy, and he'd be my other top choice for the role.


I know Warner Bros will end up doing something completely unlike either of these ideas. But if it was up to me, the future of the Batman films would lie in one of those two directions.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 29 Jan  2013, 05:24

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Mon, 28 Jan  2013, 23:19To tell you the truth I get so sick of hearing about that graphic novel (and Batman Year One, Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum e.c.t). The way their constantly reported you'd be forgiven for thinking that they were the only decent Batman stories and that no others ever existed. They've all been covered to death.

Sign of the times, I guess. We live in a trade paperback world now. Those stories have been on bookshelves for so many years now that tastemakers and critics are familiar with only those comic books "graphic novels". I'd go so far as to say that a shocking percentage of "comic book fans" would be hardpressed to name ten Batman stories, much less the ten best, ten worst, ten most unforgivable, ten most overrated, ten best drawn/worst drawn, etc.

This is by no means unique to Batman either. It's strange now to live in a world where comics have never been more visible and in everybody's face and at the same time so widely ignored even by their supposedly most ardent followers.

I've taken a massive interest recently in the O'Neil and Adams era and while some dialogue and wardrobe is dated given the period of time I think their fantastic, well drawn stories. It's refreshing to read a Batman tale before the use of phrases like "Lucky, lucky old man" became overused. Unfortunately I don't think there are any graphic novels currently available of that entire era (I only have older ones and their in black and white). I'd also really like to read the Carmine Infantino era that saved the books with an exciting new look that inspired the tv show. Their always so expensive on ebay as issues. None of them to my knowledge are available as a graphic novel and yet DC continue to release new publications of their Miller catalogue. Get some new material eh? lol

I think the reason behind that is that reprints starting from some time in the 70's going through the early or mid 90's requires comics companies to pay a relatively high royalty rate to the creative people. So unless the creative people are willing to renegotiate their reprint fees, it's really hard for companies to reprint that stuff and turn a profit on it.

I'd love to edit some collections of Bronze Age Batman comics, selecting which issues to include in which volumes, overseeing their restorations and writing introductions to explain why they're significant. In particular I'd really like to edit a TPB collecting some of the best Bronze Age Earth-Two stories. Especially the 'Death of Batman' arc and the stories leading up to it. A lot of people have read how the Golden Age Batman got started in Batman Chronicles V1, but not too many people have read how his adventures ended. Which is a shame, because it was a great story arc.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 30 Jan  2013, 18:42I'd love to edit some collections of Bronze Age Batman comics, selecting which issues to include in which volumes, overseeing their restorations and writing introductions to explain why they're significant. In particular I'd really like to edit a TPB collecting some of the best Bronze Age Earth-Two stories. Especially the 'Death of Batman' arc and the stories leading up to it. A lot of people have read how the Golden Age Batman got started in Batman Chronicles V1, but not too many people have read how his adventures ended. Which is a shame, because it was a great story arc.

I read The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne loooooooooong before I read The Death of Batman so maybe that affects my opinion but I felt like TDOB was kind of a dud. It's been ages since I read it but I couldn't help thinking that's just not how Batman would check out if he was ever going to die on the job. It felt like TAOBW was a better epitath. You get Bruce reflecting on his life and mortality in a really effective way. His death is obvious but mysterious... and one panel suggests that nobody came to his funeral which part of me buys pretty easily.

Not trying to gush too much here, I just love that story.

QuoteNot trying to gush too much here, I just love that story.

'The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne' is a great story. I'd actually rank it amongst my top ten all time favourite Batman comics. It's certainly my favourite story featuring Catwoman and Scarecrow.

QuoteI read The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne loooooooooong before I read The Death of Batman so maybe that affects my opinion but I felt like TDOB was kind of a dud. It's been ages since I read it but I couldn't help thinking that's just not how Batman would check out if he was ever going to die on the job.

I know what you mean. It's a comparatively underwhelming story. But that's what I like about it. It's so simple and straightforward. Not an overblown, overhyped twelve month epic where we all know he's going to return from the dead in the end anyway. Based on the cover, you could be forgiven for thinking it was one of those gimmick stories which promised Batman and Robin would get killed, even though they never actually did.


But no, the original Golden Age Batman really does die in this story. And he doesn't come back afterwards. That was quite a ballsy move IMO.

I also like the fact that Bill Jensen, the guy who kills him, isn't a major super villain. Aside from his newly acquired superpowers, he's every bit as much a common lowlife as Joe Chill was. And I always preferred the idea of Batman getting taken down by a no-name lowlife rather than a major super villain. It brings a humble conclusion to his story, one that emphasises Bruce's fallibility and reminds us of his human frailty.

If I was to edit this and several connected stories into a single volume, I'd arrange them thusly:



•   'The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne' (The Brave and the Bold #197, April 1983) – Selina Kyle discovers Batman's true identity and turns over a new leaf. Batman faces Scarecrow for the last time. He and Selina end up together after she has served her debt to society.
•   'The Kill Kent Contract!' (Superman Family #211, October 1981) – Bruce Wayne marries Selina Kyle.
•   'Huntress: From Each Ending... A Beginning!' (DC Super-Stars #17, December 1977) – First appearance of Bruce and Selina's daughter, Helena Wayne. Selina is blackmailed into reassuming her Catwoman persona and is subsequently killed. Bruce Wayne retires as Batman and burns his Batsuit. Helena Wayne makes her debut as the Huntress.
•   'Injustice Strikes Twice!' (All-Star Comics #66, May 1977) – James Gordon dies. Bruce Wayne replaces him as police commissioner. I wouldn't include this entire issue, just a few relevant pages.
•   'Only Legends Live Forever' (Adventure Comics #461-462, February-April, 1979) – Commissioner Wayne reassumes the mantle of Batman and is killed by Bill Jensen. He is buried alongside his wife, Selina.
•   'The Night of the Soul Thief' (Adventure Comics #463, June 1979) – the JSA investigate the circumstances surrounding Batman's death and uncover the source of Bill Jensen's superpowers.
•   'The Last Laugh!' (Wonder Woman #283, September 1981) – Dick Grayson briefly assumes the mantle of the bat and teams up with Huntress to recapture the Joker for the last time.
•   'Interlude on Earth-Two' (The Brave and the Bold #182, January 1982) – The Earth-One Batman learns of the death of his Earth-Two counterpart. Hugo Strange kills himself. Final appearance of Kathy Kane/Batwoman. Final appearance of the Joker.

I've also got ideas for compilations detailing the Golden Age Batman's origin and evolution, plus a book collecting some of the most significant JSA adventures. If only DC would hire me as an editor...

I would buy that trade.

See, stuff like that is what makes Earth-2 work for me. You get to do crazy stuff like permanently kill off Batman without completely screwing up the DCU. You can advance the characters and the universe while still playing it safe with Earth-1.

And then there's the Huntress. I'm of the opinion (and I can't be alone on this one) that she and Power Girl never really recovered from Crisis. Helena probably had an easier time of it than Power Girl did but both of 'em had it rough in the late 80's.

*sigh* The Pre-Crisis DC had so much going for it. Yeah, I get it, they wanted to streamline the bazillion different Earths into something easier to understand with a single, unified continuity but (A) I don't think they ever really accomplished that and (B) I don't understand why they even bothered. DC isn't Marvel. Marvel isn't DC. Forgetting those two basic truths never goes unpunished, and in this case, the sins of the father are definitely being visited upon later generations.

It's just sad.

QuoteI would buy that trade.

You, sir, have excellent taste. And I agree 100% about the Earth-Two comics. Seeing superheroes age and die is something we rarely experience in contemporary comics. The fact that the Earth-Two universe was considered passé freed up the writers to do whatever they liked. Unfortunately the only time we see that kind of freedom nowadays is in Elseworld titles.

Have you ever read America vs. The Justice Society (1985)? That's one of the best Golden Age Earth-Two stories. The plot concerns a secret journal of Batman's that is unearthed following his death. In this book he makes numerous accusations of misconduct against the JSA, retelling classic events in such a way that implicates himself and the other heroes in a variety of treasonous misdeeds. For example, it references the formation of the JSA and their first battle against Hitler, as originally depicted in 'The Untold Origin of the Justice Society' (DC Special #29, August 1977). Only now Batman claims that the JSA didn't fight Hitler at all; rather they were so impressed by his charisma that they signed up and secretly became Nazis. He also alleges that the money raised by the JSA in '$1,000,000 for War Orphans' (All-Star Comics #7, October 1941) was channelled to the Nazis to help fund their war efforts against America. And so on and so forth. Batman's journal goes on in this manner – referencing earlier JSA stories and corrupting the true sequence of events in order to vilify his comrades – and the end result is that the heroes are outlawed, à la Watchmen. They have to go into hiding while they search for the truth behind Batman's exposé.

I think they should collect America vs. the Justice Society, plus all the major stories it references, in a single massive trade paperback. It would be the ultimate JSA collection spanning over forty years of the comics. They could also include supplementary material explaining the background of the stories and the real life roles comics played during WWII (propagandising, promoting war bonds, encouraging recycling, etc). Just imagine the JSA Saga and Death of Batman, both restored and released in prestige format. It would be a great opportunity to teach some of the Dark Knight's lesser known history to the young Batman fans who've only ever read Frank Miller and Jeph Loeb. Don't get wrong, Miller and Loeb are very good. But there's so much more to Batman than just the Modern Age.

Quote*sigh* The Pre-Crisis DC had so much going for it. Yeah, I get it, they wanted to streamline the bazillion different Earths into something easier to understand with a single, unified continuity but (A) I don't think they ever really accomplished that and (B) I don't understand why they even bothered. DC isn't Marvel. Marvel isn't DC. Forgetting those two basic truths never goes unpunished, and in this case, the sins of the father are definitely being visited upon later generations.

It's just sad.

I've got to be honest, I've never quite understood the point behind the whole Crisis on Infinite Earths thing. Between Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis and all the other major "event" storylines, haven't they more or less undone any streamlining anyway? What we're left with now is a confusing mess of timelines, parallel universes and retcons that only complicate things further. And Flashpoint certainly didn't help. So how is the DC universe any more streamlined or sensical now than it was thirty years ago?

 I think the quick reboot of SpiderMan, the double reboot of Superman and the (now 6) X-Men movies that have constant story archs and origins interest leaves the fan culture's thirst never fully quenched. And of course that is a very good thing for us fans and for the people profiting from it. But when you continually reboot the characters, it leads to destroying any contininous story narrative in the film series that I believe is far more enjoyable in the long run. It also helps when the same actors reprise the same roles during that time.

We were spoiled with that during the Nolan triligy and it really helped his story be that much more enjoyable. Gary Oldman is to Commissioner Gordon what Michael Keaton is to Batman. He proved to be that worthy and that valuable in the role and we as the audience benefited from his presence. I could easily say the same about Michael Caine and even Christian Bale, who definitely played a challenged and competant Bruce Wayne very well.

I think that's why most Batman fans I've spoken with all favor a multi-picture story arch with the same actors. Or a stand alone Batman film, possibly The Dark Knight Returns. And if they waited another 7-10 years, the timing would be right for someone to challenge Ledger for the Joker. An older, more devious Joker against a greyer, more troubled Bruce Wayne. It could work.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri,  1 Feb  2013, 20:13You, sir, have excellent taste. And I agree 100% about the Earth-Two comics. Seeing superheroes age and die is something we rarely experience in contemporary comics. The fact that the Earth-Two universe was considered passé freed up the writers to do whatever they liked. Unfortunately the only time we see that kind of freedom nowadays is in Elseworld titles.

Pretty much. And even there, the point of Elseworlds is to basically reinvent the character, not so much take different story paths with him.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri,  1 Feb  2013, 20:13Have you ever read America vs. The Justice Society (1985)? That's one of the best Golden Age Earth-Two stories. The plot concerns a secret journal of Batman's that is unearthed following his death. In this book he makes numerous accusations of misconduct against the JSA, retelling classic events in such a way that implicates himself and the other heroes in a variety of treasonous misdeeds. For example, it references the formation of the JSA and their first battle against Hitler, as originally depicted in 'The Untold Origin of the Justice Society' (DC Special #29, August 1977). Only now Batman claims that the JSA didn't fight Hitler at all; rather they were so impressed by his charisma that they signed up and secretly became Nazis. He also alleges that the money raised by the JSA in '$1,000,000 for War Orphans' (All-Star Comics #7, October 1941) was channelled to the Nazis to help fund their war efforts against America. And so on and so forth. Batman's journal goes on in this manner – referencing earlier JSA stories and corrupting the true sequence of events in order to vilify his comrades – and the end result is that the heroes are outlawed, à la Watchmen. They have to go into hiding while they search for the truth behind Batman's exposé.

Yeah, read it for the first time about a year ago. Not sure what I was expecting but that wasn't it. It felt like the comic book equivalent of a clip show. "Hey Dr. Fate, remember that time we were beating the piss out of Smash Man* (* the piss-beating took place in All Star #whatever) and Batman showed up and was acting funny? Could he have been under a magical spell or something do you think?" It felt like the intended purpose was to synthesize the stories being recapped but instead it comes off way too dry and technical for my tastes. Didn't really care for it.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri,  1 Feb  2013, 20:13I've got to be honest, I've never quite understood the point behind the whole Crisis on Infinite Earths thing. Between Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis and all the other major "event" storylines, haven't they more or less undone any streamlining anyway? What we're left with now is a confusing mess of timelines, parallel universes and retcons that only complicate things further. And Flashpoint certainly didn't help. So how is the DC universe any more streamlined or sensical now than it was thirty years ago?

On the face of it, I think the basic goal of Crisis was honorable enough. Eliminate the multiverse, create a single universe and develop a continuity that makes sense. Had Crisis been followed up by a hard universe-wide reboot, I think things would've turned out differently. But while Superman got the hard reboot, Hawkman was a clusterfvck, Batman weathered it but even his continuity was pretty vague, the Legion of Superheroes arguably never really recovered from Crisis and there are probably other problems too.

Maybe it's a Monday morning quarterback thing to say but it feels like some editor or publisher or something should've mandated a universe-wide reboot. Crisis was designed to be not just a continuity-killer but a universe-killer too. It's just that some writers refused to acknowledge that it had taken place. Had they done so, stuff like Zero Hour wouldn't have even been necessary.

I think Infinite Crisis and the like was unavoidable though. If certain writers were designed to eventually get the keys to the kingdom and if their goal was to reintroduce the multiverse, there's no way to avoid the pitfalls of Infinite Crisis.

Part of me can at least admire what Flashpoint set out to do in merging the mainstream DCU with Vertigo and Wildstorm all while rebooting a lot of characters but, like Crisis, the incomplete reboot is inevitably going to cause problems later. I realize people have an affection for stuff like Jason Todd being murdered by the Joker, Dick becoming Nightwing and all that stuff but the type of reboot that's needed pretty much requires throwing the baby out with the bath water. Who's to say that Batman might not benefit more than anybody from having a firm starting point now? Yeah, some fans will be ticked off but either you want ALL of this stuff to work or you don't.

Until or unless DC grows the necessary paired reproductive organs to do a hard reboot of the whole shebang, I don't think the situation will ever improve. The only other alternative I see (and this won't happen either) is to pick a month and year (February 1984 or something), restore the old Pre-Crisis continuity from that point, pretend as though the intervening 28 years never happened and resume where the continuity left off in that month/year.

Sigh...

I agree the Batman Beyond series isn't my favorite, but it warms my heart to hear Uslan thinking this way. Keaton and Nicholson together.

Keaton as an 80 year old Bruce Wayne... love the idea. If we look at his acting career we know he could do anything with his acting.

Someone get the news out to more people. Even if it never happens, I'd love to hear what Keaton and Nicholson think about it.

I dunno. How would Jack Nicholson's Joker work exactly? He's dead remember?! lol Last I saw he plummeted from Gotham Cathedral. If they used him that would pretty much be a retcon of the original Batman wouldn't it? It'd be a pretty strange, confusing oddity of a movie.

Oh I thought Uslan meant like a story arc that isn't contuing from Batman Returns or the other Batman films.

If they really managed to tempt Michael Keaton back to the role (a Batman movie event on a whole other level) I think it's would be insanely foolish not to follow on from his previous movies. It would be a huge huge missed opportunity to have a totally original, unrelated project to the Burton films. Unlike others I don't believe there is a wonderous "lost" third Keaton film that now needs to be made but having Keaton back would justify an excuse certainly to return to that world again in the here and now.

I agree about there isn't a 'need' for a third Keaton film. As far as I am concerned, B89 and BR well and truly assure his legacy. If he ever came back, sure, I'd be jumping up and down like a crazed clown. But I have resigned myself to it not happening. As awesome as it would be to have Nicholson back as The Joker alive and well, I would much rather keep Burtonverse continuity than have an off-shot. A dream sequence would be the go, Bruce waking up alone in a cold sweat.

Keaton and Burton have both said they're open to the possibility of returning to the Batman franchise. But it's extremely unlikely it'll ever happen. Burton severed all ties with Warner Bros after the Superman Lives fiasco. I can't see him ever working on another DC property again. Maybe one day he could be persuaded to direct a segment of a Gotham Knights-style animated feature. But even the chances of that happening are remote. I think his Batman days are well and truly behind him.

Keaton stands a slightly better chance of returning, thanks largely to persistent fan support for the idea. He had a few close calls too. At one point he was going to star in Batman Forever. He was also rumoured to be making a cameo as Bruce Wayne in Superman Lives. And back in 2007 Kevin Smith outlined a plan for a Justice League movie centred on Keaton returning as Batman.

Quote"For me, it's like, I would definitely cast Michael Keaton as Batman," he asserted. "I thought Michael Keaton was an awesome Batman. And in world where they don't want to crossover with what Chris Nolan is doing in 'Dark Knight,' I mean, why not cast Michael Keaton?"

Because he last played Batman nearly twenty years ago? Because, when he was chosen by Tim Burton as the Caped Crusader for the 1989 original he wasn't that popular to begin with? Because he's fifty-bleeping-six years old?

"It'd be nice if Batman was the older man," Smith countered. "He plays such an integral part in that movie, from what [I heard] – he's kind of the lynchpin upon which the entire machine turns. So it would be nice to see."

http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2007/11/30/holy-retread-batman-kevin-smith-picks-michael-keaton-for-his-jla-cast/

But none of those things came to pass. And now I think the ship has sailed. Keaton would have been a logical choice for The Dark Knight Returns animated movies, but they decided to go with Peter Weller instead. I think that was probably his last shot at reprising the role.

If they were going to adapt The Dark Knight Returns with Keaton then the time to have done it would have been around 2000. Nowadays many retrospectives claim the public was fed up with Batman after 1997, and that it wasn't until Batman Begins was released that audiences grew receptive to more entries in the series. But that isn't true. Audiences were only fed up with Schumacher's Batman; they were always hungry for more dark Batman films. I remember talking to a friend of mine – who was also a diehard comic fan – back in 1998 about what we wanted from the next movie. And we both agreed – we wanted it dark and we wanted Keaton back as Batman.

Why do studios commission reboots in the first place, rather than taking a chance on redemptive sequels? Usually because the previous film in the series positioned characters and events in such a way that would make it problematic to continue the series. And that's what happened with Batman and Robin. The film ended with a happy-go-lucky Batman and a Bat-family that had outgrown the Batcave.

Solution? Adapt The Dark Knight Returns. That story begins with Robin dead and Batman suffering from a guilt-induced death wish. Change it so that both Robin and Batgirl are dead and the problem's solved. The movie would start with Keaton as the depressed, loner Batman, just like he was in the first two films. Only now he's older and meaner.

The Batman in The Dark Knight Returns is meant to be in his mid fifties. Keaton would have been in his late forties/early fifties around that time. And middle aged Keaton was much more physically intimidating than his younger self. I could easily imagine him in the role at that stage.


He would have made an even more "badass" Batman in 2000 than back when he made the first two films. And when you consider the advancements in costume design that had developed over the course of Schumacher's films, it's certain he would have had a better, more flexible Batsuit too.

Reboots aren't always the way to go. If the franchise has a decent foundation to begin with then sometimes it's worth persevering, rather than simply aborting the whole thing and starting from scratch. A good recent example of this would be X-Men: First Class. And I think they should have done the same thing with the old Batman series. We still could have had Batman Begins in 2005, but this way we could also have had a Batman 5 to conclude the old series.

But alas, the time for that has passed. Keaton's 61 now and judging from recent pictures I don't think he'd be physically convincing in the role anymore. The Batman in The Dark Knight Returns is meant to be a ferocious beast, but nowadays Keaton looks very much like an average guy. He was an average guy when he made Batman 89, but back then he also had youth and vigour on his side.

But he does seem to be gravitating more towards the action genre recently. I guess it started with The Other Guys, and now he has RoboCop and Need for Speed on the horizon. So maybe he'd be up for playing Bruce Wayne in a Batman Beyond movie. We'll just have to wait and see.

But in all honesty, I don't think it'll ever happen. Burton is definitely done with the franchise. And while there's a slim chance Keaton might return, the odds of it happening are getting slimmer with each passing year. Still, it's always a fun topic to discuss in a "what if?" context.

Coming in late. Echoing both The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne love, and I too would purchase a trade about The Death of Batman. 

As for Keaton?  Were TPTB @ WB to go in the BB direction, I would be entirely down for it.  Doubtful, of course, and at this juncture I'd prefer a new series stemming from the possible JLA project.

Absolutely delighted to hear the Justice League movie may be scrapped for the time being. Even further pleased with those glorious new Adam West figures from Mattel. A Burgess Meredith Penguin *woohoo!* Excellent news day.

This is your chance to do it properly Warners. Build up the new Superman first and create a new Batman series and then make the bloody Avengers team up/cash in if you so must.

In the meantime get started on the next Batman flick. With the League unlikely to appear by 2015 they can now sidetrack it and focus on the way more interesting next iteration of Mr Wayne.

(The Joker, to the JLA movie)

"I'm glad you're dead"

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Sun, 27 Jan  2013, 17:34
And I thought the villains kind of sucked too. Did they ever use classic Bat villains, ever?

um look at how old bruce was. how could they use the classic villains? lol. they're all probably in a retirement home flinging cold mashed potatos at each other and sleeping 22 hours out of the day. or dead. or like bane because of all the poison he ingested.

Quote from: Catwoman on Fri, 15 Mar  2013, 10:28

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Sun, 27 Jan  2013, 17:34
And I thought the villains kind of sucked too. Did they ever use classic Bat villains, ever?

um look at how old bruce was. how could they use the classic villains? lol. they're all probably in a retirement home flinging cold mashed potatos at each other and sleeping 22 hours out of the day. or dead. or like bane because of all the poison he ingested.

Well obviously. It was a rhetorical question I was asking. They did manage to bring back the Joker in a movie however so I wouldv'e thought why not some others too? Even if we just see them as retired.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Fri, 15 Mar  2013, 19:19

Quote from: Catwoman on Fri, 15 Mar  2013, 10:28

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Sun, 27 Jan  2013, 17:34
And I thought the villains kind of sucked too. Did they ever use classic Bat villains, ever?

um look at how old bruce was. how could they use the classic villains? lol. they're all probably in a retirement home flinging cold mashed potatos at each other and sleeping 22 hours out of the day. or dead. or like bane because of all the poison he ingested.

Well obviously. It was a rhetorical question I was asking. They did manage to bring back the Joker in a movie however so I wouldv'e thought why not some others too? Even if we just see them as retired.

oh. ok. it looked like you were seriously asking like "why couldn't they use them" so i'm glad it was rhetorical because you would have looked stupid lol.

I may be in the minority but I'd prefer they dont bring back old villains, especially the ones which have been used twice (Joker, two face, bane), MAYBE catwoman since Selina wasn't really catwoman in TDKR. Why not use the mad hatter or Hush or killer croc?

Quote from: Catwoman on Sun, 17 Mar  2013, 06:11

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Fri, 15 Mar  2013, 19:19

Quote from: Catwoman on Fri, 15 Mar  2013, 10:28

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Sun, 27 Jan  2013, 17:34
And I thought the villains kind of sucked too. Did they ever use classic Bat villains, ever?

um look at how old bruce was. how could they use the classic villains? lol. they're all probably in a retirement home flinging cold mashed potatos at each other and sleeping 22 hours out of the day. or dead. or like bane because of all the poison he ingested.

Well obviously. It was a rhetorical question I was asking. They did manage to bring back the Joker in a movie however so I wouldv'e thought why not some others too? Even if we just see them as retired.

oh. ok. it looked like you were seriously asking like "why couldn't they use them" so i'm glad it was rhetorical because you would have looked stupid lol.

Hmm well a tad rude comment there seeing as we've never met. The "stupid" comment I mean. But let's not go there. I've had my fill of fans getting strangely upset or angry with discussions because of silly misunderstandings.

Quote from: riddler on Sun, 17 Mar  2013, 15:13
I may be in the minority but I'd prefer they dont bring back old villains, especially the ones which have been used twice (Joker, two face, bane), MAYBE catwoman since Selina wasn't really catwoman in TDKR. Why not use the mad hatter or Hush or killer croc?

I really like this Riddler avatar. My favourites were the Penguin images. I've a feeling the guy who made these has hit on something quite big. How did you get this?

Quote from: riddler on Sun, 17 Mar  2013, 15:13I may be in the minority but I'd prefer they dont bring back old villains, especially the ones which have been used twice (Joker, two face, bane), MAYBE catwoman since Selina wasn't really catwoman in TDKR. Why not use the mad hatter or Hush or killer croc?

I'd also mention Clayface, Man-Bat and the Ventriloquist.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Sun, 17 Mar  2013, 21:24

Quote from: Catwoman on Sun, 17 Mar  2013, 06:11


oh. ok. it looked like you were seriously asking like "why couldn't they use them" so i'm glad it was rhetorical because you would have looked stupid lol.

Hmm well a tad rude comment there seeing as we've never met. The "stupid" comment I mean. But let's not go there. I've had my fill of fans getting strangely upset or angry with discussions because of silly misunderstandings.

::)

are you f***ing kidding me? i said you would have LOOKED stupid. not that you were stupid. and you're the only one who i see who is getting angry or upset. i was only trying to make conversation and be friendly. if i wanted to be rude i would have said "i was like wow this guy is a f***ing dumbass."

Quote from: riddler on Sun, 17 Mar  2013, 15:13
I may be in the minority but I'd prefer they dont bring back old villains, especially the ones which have been used twice (Joker, two face, bane), MAYBE catwoman since Selina wasn't really catwoman in TDKR. Why not use the mad hatter or Hush or killer croc?

your siggy is creepy!

but i kind of sort of agree. lets get some new blood for batman to spill! lol.

how about a movie with mr. freeze? make it like in the cartoon where he was a tragic character you felt sorry for instead of arnie on ice.

i'd like to see poison ivy done better too. but don't put them in the same movie!

Quote from: Catwoman on Mon, 18 Mar  2013, 06:53
how about a movie with mr. freeze? make it like in the cartoon where he was a tragic character you felt sorry for instead of arnie on ice.

i'd like to see poison ivy done better too. but don't put them in the same movie!

He's the only Schumacher villain which wasn't 'fixed' in the Nolan series (Schumacher got Poison Ivy and Riddler right for the most part). Check Arkham City, THAT was the proper way to do Mr. Freeze; dark, tragic, and most importantly put the Nora Freeze situation on the front burner; let's face it thats why he does what he does.

I really wanna see Clayface.

A Del Toro film with gothic horror vibe and Man-Bat as the villain. (It'll never happen, I know)

Quote from: riddler on Mon, 18 Mar  2013, 14:05

Quote from: Catwoman on Mon, 18 Mar  2013, 06:53how about a movie with mr. freeze? make it like in the cartoon where he was a tragic character you felt sorry for instead of arnie on ice.

i'd like to see poison ivy done better too. but don't put them in the same movie!

He's the only Schumacher villain which wasn't 'fixed' in the Nolan series

Um, Bane?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 20 Mar  2013, 02:40

Quote from: riddler on Mon, 18 Mar  2013, 14:05

Quote from: Catwoman on Mon, 18 Mar  2013, 06:53how about a movie with mr. freeze? make it like in the cartoon where he was a tragic character you felt sorry for instead of arnie on ice.

i'd like to see poison ivy done better too. but don't put them in the same movie!

He's the only Schumacher villain which wasn't 'fixed' in the Nolan series

Um, Bane?

Full agreement. Bane wasn't any impressive 'upgrade'.

^ Seriously. I'd argue he suffered more than any other villain Nolan used. Say whatever you want about Schumacher but he reduced Bane into a mindless brute because Poison Ivy (already an intelligent villain on her own) needed some muscle. There was a reason for it. But Nolan didn't seem to grasp anything about makes Bane what he is.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 20 Mar  2013, 16:49
^ Seriously. I'd argue he suffered more than any other villain Nolan used. Say whatever you want about Schumacher but he reduced Bane into a mindless brute because Poison Ivy (already an intelligent villain on her own) needed some muscle. There was a reason for it. But Nolan didn't seem to grasp anything about makes Bane what he is.

Can't disagree with that. Shumacher's is just one of Ivy's Plant Zombies and an annoying boss fight, not even worth mentioning, but Nolan's was in some ways an original character for the film, like Blake or Shreck. His deformity and his woobie (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie) status alone miss the point about who Bane is supposed to be. I liked Hardy but, outside of some direct references like the back-breaking, he's almost an in-name-only villain.

Schumacher may have had the look, but Nolan did get the personality far better.

Quote from: riddler on Wed, 20 Mar  2013, 20:55Schumacher may have had the look, but Nolan did get the personality far better.

Nolan didn't capture Bane's personality either.

QuoteNolan didn't capture Bane's personality either.

Maybe, but at least this version of Bane's voice made me laugh. Even when he was beating up Batman in the sewers he was cracking me up.  "Age has cost you your strength. Victory has defeated you"? So cheesy! ;D

On-topic, I'd like to see a film that that is an actual murder-mystery plot which Batman must solve, to show his detective abilities. I've always had an imagination of him facing off Calendar Man, Riddler or even Deadshot for this kind of idea.   

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 20 Mar  2013, 16:49
^ Seriously. I'd argue he suffered more than any other villain Nolan used. Say whatever you want about Schumacher but he reduced Bane into a mindless brute because Poison Ivy (already an intelligent villain on her own) needed some muscle. There was a reason for it. But Nolan didn't seem to grasp anything about makes Bane what he is.

Two complaints levelled at Swenson's Bane were him being a lapdog and his voice/IQ. Neither were upgraded satisfactorily with Hardy. He does hit harder, but that's about it as far as I see. At least Swenson's had the comic look, blew up like a balloon and was straight up honest with what it was. If Hardy's drew upon Bane's very first appearance more purely, it could have been something special.

Not that we didn't know this already, but Goyer has confirmed that WB/DC is looking to reboot Batman again for the Justice League movie, and not take back Bale.  http://blogs.canoe.ca/projectionist/movies/new-batman-in-justice-league-david-goyer-says (http://blogs.canoe.ca/projectionist/movies/new-batman-in-justice-league-david-goyer-says)

"On-topic, I'd like to see a film that that is an actual murder-mystery plot which Batman must solve, to show his detective abilities. "  QFT

Batman has been confirmed to star in a film coming out next year:

http://youtu.be/UJnzJir7Klo

Excellent!  Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman on the big screen for the first time.   ;D