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Ah yes the episode that won an emmy for best episode and deserved so.

One of my favorite episodes ever and moved me, i remembered being saddened by how Mr. Freeze would do anything to save his wife when i was 11 as me and my bigger brother and mom dug the episode.

Who knew a campy villain like him can be  a tragic figure?

Brilliant episode. I took audio clips from it for a feature I was doing a good while back.

It struck me that it plays well as a radio show.

I actually think "Two-Face Part 1" should have won an award. There's a lot of mature dramatic stuff going on in that story. It's unlike any animated cartoon I've ever watched.

I've always liked Mr Freeze and never exactly saw him as a "B-lister" villain. I guess because of his prescence in the tv show. It's amazing to think a character who made a gigantic impact in that cartoon only appeared twice in this story and "Deep Freeze" (a third appearance clocked up in the movie "Subzero"). New Batman Adventures doesn't count for me. I didn't like his redesigned look.

Yes the redesign grew on me but i learned to cope with it.

This is another ep that just clicked with me. I viewed it (as well as Two-Face 1 & 2 and Read My Lips) as the true successor to Burton's films. If you can find it, you should check out the special holiday issue of the old "Batman Adventures" comic book, the Mr. Freeze story contained therein is just as memorable and poignant with great artwork by Glen Murakami. My mom (who also adored the series) asked if she could read my comics and was in tear after reading that story.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Thu,  3 Jan  2013, 15:38
I actually think "Two-Face Part 1" should have won an award. There's a lot of mature dramatic stuff going on in that story. It's unlike any animated cartoon I've ever watched.

I've always liked Mr Freeze and never exactly saw him as a "B-lister" villain. I guess because of his prescence in the tv show. It's amazing to think a character who made a gigantic impact in that cartoon only appeared twice in this story and "Deep Freeze" (a third appearance clocked up in the movie "Subzero"). New Batman Adventures doesn't count for me. I didn't like his redesigned look.

Of all the poor re-designs seen in the TNBA (never liked how the women were much smaller, Ivy and Catwoman were just ridiculous), Freeze was IMO a relatively minor one, at least until it was revealed that he was just a head on a robotic body.

I would have been okay Freeze's redesign if they kept the original design for the face. The whole "he's just a head" thing turned me off too.
Actually of all the redesigns the two most successful IMO were Two-Face and the Scarecrow. Two-Face was only altered slightly, mainly to bulk him up and make him look even more physically imposing (on the DVD the creator's felt he benefited the most from the slightly new look), while "hanged corpse" Scarecrow gave him that important element he was somewhat lacking: He's frickin' terrifying!

Mark Hamill on Ferris Boyle, the man who inadvertently created Mr Freeze:

Quote
FUN FACT: This was my very first role on the series, long BEFORE they cast me as that demented clown.
#TrueStory

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/1284600757358977024

It's a testament to Hamill's skill as a voice actor that I every time I hear him speak as Boyle, it doesn't remind me of the Joker.

Without a doubt, Boyle is true villain of this episode. It may not justify Mr Freeze's quest for vengeance when it risked putting innocent bystanders in harm's way, but the idea of Boyle getting awarded as Humanitarian of the Year is ironic and totally unjust. It would've made anyone else in Freeze's position insane too.

The corrupt businessman who had a hand in creating a supervillain is a consistent stock character trope in Batman media: Ferris Boyle/Mr Freeze and Roland Daggett/Clayface in BTAS, Max Shreck/Catwoman in BR, and Simon Stagg/Metamorpho in JL, Beware the Batman and the comics (although to be fair, Metamorpho isn't exactly a villain, but he was initially at odds with the Justice League and Batman in those two cartoons). Judging by Boyle's greed and cruel disregard for Nora and Victor's lives, there's no doubt he would've attempted something as equally horrendous to satisfy his own political and business ambitions, as Shreck and Daggett had attempted.

Quote from: Azrael on Mon, 21 Jan  2013, 22:47Of all the poor re-designs seen in the TNBA (never liked how the women were much smaller, Ivy and Catwoman were just ridiculous), Freeze was IMO a relatively minor one, at least until it was revealed that he was just a head on a robotic body.

Awwww, I like the redrawn Harley Quinn.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 19 Jul  2020, 14:08Without a doubt, Boyle is true villain of this episode. It may not justify Mr Freeze's quest for vengeance when it risked putting innocent bystanders in harm's way, but the idea of Boyle getting awarded as Humanitarian of the Year is ironic and totally unjust. It would've made anyone else in Freeze's position insane too.

The corrupt businessman who had a hand in creating a supervillain is a consistent stock character trope in Batman media: Ferris Boyle/Mr Freeze and Roland Daggett/Clayface in BTAS, Max Shreck/Catwoman in BR, and Simon Stagg/Metamorpho in JL, Beware the Batman and the comics (although to be fair, Metamorpho isn't exactly a villain, but he was initially at odds with the Justice League and Batman in those two cartoons). Judging by Boyle's greed and cruel disregard for Nora and Victor's lives, there's no doubt he would've attempted something as equally horrendous to satisfy his own political and business ambitions, as Shreck and Daggett had attempted.

One thing that works for me about BTAS is how villains weren't the Legion Of Doom. They weren't BFF's just because they both opposed Batman. In many cases, they had grudges and rivalries against each other. There are many episodes where Batman isn't so much a crimefighter as a referee.

Quote from: Azrael on Mon, 21 Jan  2013, 22:47
Of all the poor re-designs seen in the TNBA (never liked how the women were much smaller, Ivy and Catwoman were just ridiculous), Freeze was IMO a relatively minor one, at least until it was revealed that he was just a head on a robotic body.

I tend to think it worked in terms of the animated canon.

The idea that Freeze lost any semblance of a normal life, his wife, and then his own very body really hammers home the sense of tragedy when it comes to the character in the DCAU.

In terms of an overall assessment, it's kinda amusing to think about just how influential media outside of the comic book source material has had on Mr. Freeze in terms of lasting impact. Whether it be going from Mr. Zero to Mr. Freeze for the `66 Adam West Batman series, to a more tragic backstory with TAS Heart of Ice episode, and of course being played by Arnold Schwarzenegger in 1997. I have the Batman Arkham: Mr. Freeze tpb, and can see why he was thought of as a gimmicky villain prior to TAS, but its pretty clear media outside the comics has been much more influential with Mr. Freeze than anything of note from the comics themselves.

Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 20 Jul  2020, 09:12I have the Batman Arkham: Mr. Freeze tpb, and can see why he was thought of as a gimmicky villain prior to TAS, but its pretty clear media outside the comics has been much more influential with Mr. Freeze than anything of note from the comics themselves.

True. Freeze is certainly a character that's been defined far more by his media appearances than by the comics.

However there was an earlier lesser known Batman comic villain named Cryonic Man who shared some notable similarities with Dini's take on Victor Fries. This character appeared in 'Death Warmed Over!' and 'Cold Hands, Cold Heart!' (Batman and the Outsiders Vol 1 #6-7, January-February 1984), which I suspect may have influenced 'Heart of Ice'. Like Victor, Cryonic Man – real name Philip – was a scientist who wielded a freeze gun against his enemies.


His wife Melissa had been cryogenically frozen and was dying from a degenerative disease. Philip embarked on a series of crimes to procure the replacement organs he would need to remedy her condition. His primary motive – to cure the terminal illness of his cryogenically frozen wife – is more or less identical to that of Dini's Fries.


If these issues did influence 'Heart of Ice', then that would mean one of the most influential Mr. Freeze comics wasn't even a Mr. Freeze story.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 19 Jul  2020, 15:14

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 19 Jul  2020, 14:08Without a doubt, Boyle is true villain of this episode. It may not justify Mr Freeze's quest for vengeance when it risked putting innocent bystanders in harm's way, but the idea of Boyle getting awarded as Humanitarian of the Year is ironic and totally unjust. It would've made anyone else in Freeze's position insane too.

The corrupt businessman who had a hand in creating a supervillain is a consistent stock character trope in Batman media: Ferris Boyle/Mr Freeze and Roland Daggett/Clayface in BTAS, Max Shreck/Catwoman in BR, and Simon Stagg/Metamorpho in JL, Beware the Batman and the comics (although to be fair, Metamorpho isn't exactly a villain, but he was initially at odds with the Justice League and Batman in those two cartoons). Judging by Boyle's greed and cruel disregard for Nora and Victor's lives, there's no doubt he would've attempted something as equally horrendous to satisfy his own political and business ambitions, as Shreck and Daggett had attempted.

One thing that works for me about BTAS is how villains weren't the Legion Of Doom. They weren't BFF's just because they both opposed Batman. In many cases, they had grudges and rivalries against each other. There are many episodes where Batman isn't so much a crimefighter as a referee.

The villains shared a mutual feeling contempt for Batman, but they won't hesitate in turning against each other if push came to shove up. They only team up if it serves their agenda i.e. the kangaroo court in Trial, going after Hugo Strange in The Strange Secret of Bruce Wayne, or lament on the times they came close to nailing Batman in Almost Got 'Im. But they're not friends by any means.

With the exception of Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy.  ;)

(https://data.whicdn.com/images/331926172/original.jpg)

The cruelty of the villains allows Batman to show his compassionate side, such as this very same episode, when Batman takes care of the goon who Mr Freeze struck with his gun and save his legs from getting frostbitten.

Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 20 Jul  2020, 09:12

Quote from: Azrael on Mon, 21 Jan  2013, 22:47
Of all the poor re-designs seen in the TNBA (never liked how the women were much smaller, Ivy and Catwoman were just ridiculous), Freeze was IMO a relatively minor one, at least until it was revealed that he was just a head on a robotic body.

I tend to think it worked in terms of the animated canon.

The idea that Freeze lost any semblance of a normal life, his wife, and then his own very body really hammers home the sense of tragedy when it comes to the character in the DCAU.

Personally, I never cared for the way Mr Freeze was re-imagined in TNBA, mainly because I thought his story concluded fine the way it did in SubZero. He may have been presumed dead and may have never reunited Nora again, but he could at least find peace knowing she is alive and well. I thought it was poetic for him to live in the arctic, away from the chaos in Gotham City. If there was a redeeming trait I'd see in Mr Freeze, I would've thought he'd be more than happy to stay away if it means to keeping Nora safe.

Of course, the creators took the opportunity to rewrite this and have Fries succumb to even further madness, to the point of no return.

For what it's worth, SubZero had an equally bittersweet, albeit different ending than what we got. Paul Dini claimed it was his idea to continue Mr Freeze's story post-SubZero, though Bruce Timm wasn't exactly thrilled with the idea initially.

Quote
The movie, which was produced by Boyd Kirkland and Randy Rogel, was originally supposed to conclude with the cure and redemption of Mr. Freeze. The original ending was bittersweet, with Mr. Freeze being cured by the Wayne Foundation, and able to hold his beloved Nora again, but then being led away to spend the rest of his life in prison.

The original ending packed a tremendous emotional punch, and conveyed a very positive message, but Warner Bros. asked Kirkland and Rogel to revise the ending. The ending was altered so only Nora Fries was cured, and with Victor to live in seclusion.

After Nora was cured in Sub-Zero, there were no definite plans to ever return to her character. Timm thinks that her story-arc was nicely wrapped up in the movie.

"I doubt we would have brought her back," agrees Dini. "I felt Nora worked better as 'the woman in ice,' eternally beautiful, much desired but never attainable. Even when she was brought back to life, Freeze could never have her, and so Nora remained more of an ideal than a person. A symbol of a lost and still-mourned love. That's how she should be, I think."

With Nora cured, Victor Fries fell away from his obsession with his wife. Most people assumed his story arc would end on that note. But he was brought back, more chilling than ever, in 'Cold Comfort.' Obsessed with making people more miserable and deprived of hope than he, Freeze began a reign of terror against Gotham City.

"I remember not being terribly enthusiastic about 'Cold Comfort' at first, though I don't recall the specifics," says Timm. "I guess I felt the story just wasn't quite as good as 'Heart of Ice' and 'Deep Freeze.' But it came out fine in the end. I think Glen Murakami and I came up with the 'walking head' bit, but I'm not sure."

"They certainly took him in a different direction, though not necessarily a bad one," says Dini. "'Heart of Ice' made Freeze into a major player, and while the temptation was to just do that one episode with him, we realized we had to do a few more with him.

"I liked 'Cold Comfort,'" says Dini. "I think I was the one who came up with the idea that Freeze was out to deprive innocent people of whatever they loved. That made him into much more of a villain. It stripped him of whatever sympathy or nobility he had, but it also made him more dangerous and frightening. Not a bad trade-off. I didn't mind using him again as long as we found something other than Nora for him to obsess about. As long as he couldn't have anyone to love, he wanted to deprive others of that, too."

https://dcanimated.com/WF/heartofice/interview/03.php

Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 20 Jul  2020, 09:12
In terms of an overall assessment, it's kinda amusing to think about just how influential media outside of the comic book source material has had on Mr. Freeze in terms of lasting impact.

I remember reading a quote by a comic book historian called Les Daniels who said that out of all the Batman comics he read and other forms of media he saw, Heart of Ice is among one of the greatest Batman stories ever told. A most recent example of the episode's influence is the Cold, Cold Heart DLC for the Arkham Origins video game.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 20 Jul  2020, 11:52
If these issues did influence 'Heart of Ice', then that would mean one of the most influential Mr. Freeze comics wasn't even a Mr. Freeze story.

Impressive. Most impressive. There's no hiding from Silver.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/eaec100aadafb6fde4e4d17da1b443bc/tenor.gif?itemid=15708953)

I was watching this video analysing Heart of Ice, and it mentioned the frost inside Mr Freeze's helmet was painted on by the animators, frame by frame. I gotta say, I never took much notice of the frost before. It would later be dropped and they opted to paint his helmet blue in later appearances in the DCAU to save time and money.

https://youtu.be/P1QHVpGg6UM

In that first run of 65 episodes, there's a TON of craftsmanship and artistry going on. On Leather Wings, for example, has some amazing shadow effects over characters' faces that wasn't used very often thereafter.

I always appreciated the the helmet frost. Never would've guessed it was painted on frame-by-frame. But it makes sense.

I saw some guy on YouTube who claims BTAS is overrated and used the ending of this episode of Batman smashing the bottle of hot chicken soup to defeat Mr. Freeze and quips about it to argue how tonally uneven the show is. The reason he believes this episode and the entire show are overrated is that many people often see it as the definitive take on the character.

I think the criticism is harsh. Batman at his core is a children's fantasy that just happens to still resonate with many people of all ages to this day. As dark as BTAS could be for kids at times, kids were still the primary target audience. It got around with censorship by using imagery to get darker themes across such as mental illness, but the show had to juggle with a bit of light-heartedness to soothe the tension, and the showrunners knew they had to tread carefully to keep the target audience entertained without parents and censors on their backs. Let's face it, they had no choice after the backlash surrounding Batman Returns and the merchandising.

Besides, Batman's delivery of quips in this show is told in such a dry manner that it works fine, without grating to the ears compared to, say, Tom Holland's Spider-Man. It can even be said his dry sense of humour was missed in TNBA.

I think the chicken soup criticism sort of misses the point. As shown in BTAS, Batman has compassion and a conscience. It's obvious that while he wants to save Ferris Boyle, he doesn't want to inflict unnecessary pain upon Mr. Freeze to do it. So, when Batman is on the verge of losing the fight, does he reach a vial of acid to burn Freeze's helmet? No, he uses a thermos full of scalding hot chicken soup.

What I always took from that scene is Batman's balancing his instinct for vengeance against his sense of justice. Yes, Boyle needs to get what's coming to him. But that has to happen in a court of law and in the court of public opinion.

Plus, as much as Batman wanted to save Boyle, I think he wanted to save Dr. Fries (the man and his soul) even more.

I struggle to find something to compliment about any of BTAS Mr. Freeze's other appearances. But I can and will defend Heart Of Ice to my last breath.