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Am I to understand there isn't a Star Wars thread? Wowzers, and you guys call this a message board...

So yeah. Disney bought Lucasfilm. I can fairly say I never saw that one coming. If you'd asked me six months ago, I'd have told you that most likely Katie Lucas would take over and probably carry on Georgie Boy's tradition of not releasing the oh-riginal unaltered trilogy. Swing and a miss, I guess.

Episode 7 is coming. If you'd asked me six months ago, I'd have told you that Satan would need a parka and a heating pad before such ever saw the light of day. Swing and a miss again.

Fanboy conventional wisdom holds that diminishing George's role in the new trilogy is the unquestioned magic bullet for better films. I'm not so convinced. He wrote and directed A New Hope, which is generally very well regarded. As far as I know, his "minimal" involvement with Empire (the acknowledged favorite) is fairly similar to his level of involvement with Jedi (less favored). All of these are much more beloved than the Holiday Special, with which Lucas had zero involvement and which nobody but media masochists enjoy. In fact, it sounds like his involvement with the new trilogy will be along the lines of the 2008 Clone Wars CG animated movie... which, while not terrible, never bowled me over.

My best advice? Be careful what you wish for.

People seem to be forget that Disney and Star Wars have been entwined for the last 20 years. From star tours rode at the Parks to the exclusive toys, and to Star Wars weekends. Keeping the brand relevant even for the most casual fan. With with buy out and subsequent films slated to be released, that can go either very well, or very badly. We'll just have to wait and see on that.

As far as Lucas' involvement, if the rumor is true that they will be based on Lucas' story, and that Lucas will be looking over the shoulder of the folks at Lucasfilm the entire way (which, the Lucasfilm head thinks is a good thing), then it sounds like he'll have just as much influence as ever, short of directing. If it sucks under those particular circumstances, especially if it sucks in the ways Lucas has become known for with the prequels, blame WILL undoubtedly still fall on him, fairly or not.

As long as he doesn't touch the actual script, and the director is able to direct without interference, I'm pretty optimistic that it will be decent. Unfortunately for Expanded Universe fans, some of that stuff may get cherry picked, but will largely fall on the chopping block.

Star Wars true home is and always will be the cinema screen. So I for one am delighted there will be more after thinking Revenge of the Sith was the end of the line.

I fully support George Lucas however and feel sorry for the backlash he recieves these days. I'm one of the few who appreciates the prequels. I'm a tad uncomfortable about him giving rein to others. I wonder if he was pressured into making more films? Or is he an unwell guy or something? Not every day a guy gives away his whole "Empire" at the snap of a finger. I sincerley hope it's the former reason. 

While it's a nice thought to have Lawrence Kasdan back let's not forget he may not still be capable of "firing on all cylinders" himself. Empire Strikes Back was way back in 1980. Since then he's made The Bodyguard (a movie that makes me question my faith in him lol).

I have my issues with the prequels too. I hated the Jedi Knights. They sat and meditated through 3 films and trusted an army of lethal Clone Troopers. Kinda stupid, trusting and boring weren't they lol They need to restore the common Rebel Alliance soldier as the "heroes" of Star Wars. The x-wing pilots who fired lasers and photon torpedoes to defeat the enemy. Get rid of the peace loving, mystic Jedi and put the "Wars" back into Star Wars.

On a side note I don't exactly care for the orginal versions of the Star Wars trilogy. I remember how they looked on television back in the early 90's and guys they were dating severly then. Sorry. Jeez remember the orginal Wampa creature you never actually saw? Please don't tell me that wasn't improved. Sure I'd like them available to view as a "dvd extra feature" but I do think George Lucas was right in inproving some effects moments. In terms of altering character and story beats I agree with the controversy. I hate Hayden Christensen's cameo in Return of the Jedi. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:17Star Wars true home is and always will be the cinema screen. So I for one am delighted there will be more after thinking Revenge of the Sith was the end of the line.

Ditto, good sir.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:17I fully support George Lucas however and feel sorry for the backlash he recieves these days. I'm one of the few who appreciates the prequels. I'm a tad uncomfortable about him giving rein to others. I wonder if he was pressured into making more films? Or is he an unwell guy or something? Not every day a guy gives away his whole "Empire" at the snap of a finger. I sincerley hope it's the former reason.

People said "George Lucas raped my childhood" with varying degrees of seriousness way back when. Imagine mortgaging your entire fortune on Episode One... and being called a rapist for your troubles. Yeah, people were mostly joking when they said it... but that's still a hell of a thing to say about somebody who's just trying to entertain you. I'm not saying that stupidity like that is why he's making this decision which I'll come back to momentarily. Allz I'm saying is that if he read all the gripes and complaining and stuff online and had a bad taste in his mouth after... well, can't say I blame him too much. No, that doesn't excuse Jar Jar or whatever else but it's a different perspective, I hope.

Why is he selling? Seth Rogan attended a meeting where Lucas went on a minutes long tirade, re: Mayan calendar, December 2012, end of the world. Lucas believes it. Or he did at the time anyway. He doesn't think mankind will still be here in less than a month. Insane as I think that is, I could see that coloring his choices.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:17While it's a nice thought to have Lawrence Kasdan back let's not forget he may not still be capable of "firing on all cylinders" himself. Empire Strikes Back was way back in 1980. Since then he's made The Bodyguard (a movie that makes me question my faith in him lol).

Dreamcatcher. In fact, check out the wiki page about Dreamcatcher. Kasdan is quoted in there with something to the effect of how badly that movie damaged his career. Stuff he would've easily been able to do just a few years earlier was no longer on the table. I have to wonder if this wasn't his reason in accepting the assignment.

And frankly, the idea of less Lucas involvement doesn't necessarily thrill me. Lucas had a similar level of participation in Empire and Jedi. He had zero participation in the Holiday Special. So an absentee Lucas is hardly a magic bullet for good Star Wars.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:17I have my issues with the prequels too. I hated the Jedi Knights. They sat and meditated through 3 films and trusted an army of lethal Clone Troopers. Kinda stupid, trusting and boring weren't they lol They need to restore the common Rebel Alliance soldier as the "heroes" of Star Wars. The x-wing pilots who fired lasers and photon torpedoes to defeat the enemy. Get rid of the peace loving, mystic Jedi and put the "Wars" back into Star Wars.

To me, that was the whole point. The Jedi Order had long ago given up on their most sacred ideals and got along to get along with the Republic. Screw the will of the Force, they have a position in the social order of things to maintain. Qui-Gon is what the Jedi should have been; Yoda is what they had become.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:17On a side note I don't exactly care for the orginal versions of the Star Wars trilogy. I remember how they looked on television back in the early 90's and guys they were dating severly then. Sorry. Jeez remember the orginal Wampa creature you never actually saw? Please don't tell me that wasn't improved. Sure I'd like them available to view as a "dvd extra feature" but I do think George Lucas was right in inproving some effects moments.

Think of it like this. The version of A New Hope that won all those Oscars? It's presently not available in any legitimate home video format. Whether anybody likes it or not, the version of ANH on shelves now isn't the version that won all those Oscars. For historical purposes alone, the oh-riginals should be available to the public. I couldn't care less about Special Ultra Mega Force Unleashed Edition bullsh*t. Just give me the original version of each movie (all six) and I'll be happy as a clam.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:48

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:17Star Wars true home is and always will be the cinema screen. So I for one am delighted there will be more after thinking Revenge of the Sith was the end of the line.

Ditto, good sir.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:17I fully support George Lucas however and feel sorry for the backlash he recieves these days. I'm one of the few who appreciates the prequels. I'm a tad uncomfortable about him giving rein to others. I wonder if he was pressured into making more films? Or is he an unwell guy or something? Not every day a guy gives away his whole "Empire" at the snap of a finger. I sincerley hope it's the former reason.

People said "George Lucas raped my childhood" with varying degrees of seriousness way back when. Imagine mortgaging your entire fortune on Episode One... and being called a rapist for your troubles. Yeah, people were mostly joking when they said it... but that's still a hell of a thing to say about somebody who's just trying to entertain you. I'm not saying that stupidity like that is why he's making this decision which I'll come back to momentarily. Allz I'm saying is that if he read all the gripes and complaining and stuff online and had a bad taste in his mouth after... well, can't say I blame him too much. No, that doesn't excuse Jar Jar or whatever else but it's a different perspective, I hope.

Why is he selling? Seth Rogan attended a meeting where Lucas went on a minutes long tirade, re: Mayan calendar, December 2012, end of the world. Lucas believes it. Or he did at the time anyway. He doesn't think mankind will still be here in less than a month. Insane as I think that is, I could see that coloring his choices.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:17While it's a nice thought to have Lawrence Kasdan back let's not forget he may not still be capable of "firing on all cylinders" himself. Empire Strikes Back was way back in 1980. Since then he's made The Bodyguard (a movie that makes me question my faith in him lol).

Dreamcatcher. In fact, check out the wiki page about Dreamcatcher. Kasdan is quoted in there with something to the effect of how badly that movie damaged his career. Stuff he would've easily been able to do just a few years earlier was no longer on the table. I have to wonder if this wasn't his reason in accepting the assignment.

And frankly, the idea of less Lucas involvement doesn't necessarily thrill me. Lucas had a similar level of participation in Empire and Jedi. He had zero participation in the Holiday Special. So an absentee Lucas is hardly a magic bullet for good Star Wars.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:17I have my issues with the prequels too. I hated the Jedi Knights. They sat and meditated through 3 films and trusted an army of lethal Clone Troopers. Kinda stupid, trusting and boring weren't they lol They need to restore the common Rebel Alliance soldier as the "heroes" of Star Wars. The x-wing pilots who fired lasers and photon torpedoes to defeat the enemy. Get rid of the peace loving, mystic Jedi and put the "Wars" back into Star Wars.

To me, that was the whole point. The Jedi Order had long ago given up on their most sacred ideals and got along to get along with the Republic. Screw the will of the Force, they have a position in the social order of things to maintain. Qui-Gon is what the Jedi should have been; Yoda is what they had become.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 20:17On a side note I don't exactly care for the orginal versions of the Star Wars trilogy. I remember how they looked on television back in the early 90's and guys they were dating severly then. Sorry. Jeez remember the orginal Wampa creature you never actually saw? Please don't tell me that wasn't improved. Sure I'd like them available to view as a "dvd extra feature" but I do think George Lucas was right in inproving some effects moments.

Think of it like this. The version of A New Hope that won all those Oscars? It's presently not available in any legitimate home video format. Whether anybody likes it or not, the version of ANH on shelves now isn't the version that won all those Oscars. For historical purposes alone, the oh-riginals should be available to the public. I couldn't care less about Special Ultra Mega Force Unleashed Edition bullsh*t. Just give me the original version of each movie (all six) and I'll be happy as a clam.

You have a point about those Oscars lol When you put it like that....

I can still remember the original ending of Return of the Jedi and how abrupt it all was. And that godawful Ewok music! lol Worse than anything composed by the Gungans. I really want Sebastian Shaw restored to the ending. It was cool seeing Darth Vader as an old man and then they go and turn him "teenage" again! No offence to Hayden Christensen but how on earth would Luke recognise him lol

I saw the special edition of Star Wars with my family back in 1997 so I'll always remember that ressiue with great memories. We decided to give Empire and Jedi a miss though strangely. My dad reasoned it was the 20th anniversary of the original, so they would enchance that the most and therefore be more spectacular. I think he was right, the other two didn't have that many changes but I'd still like to go back and re-experience them at the time also.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 23:58You have a point about those Oscars lol When you put it like that....

I frequently do. ;)

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 23:58I can still remember the original ending of Return of the Jedi and how abrupt it all was. And that godawful Ewok music! lol Worse than anything composed by the Gungans. I really want Sebastian Shaw restored to the ending. It was cool seeing Darth Vader as an old man and then they go and turn him "teenage" again! No offence to Hayden Christensen but how on earth would Luke recognise him lol

I've not heard any rational explanation for Christensen replacing Shaw in that shot. I'm not saying I'd accept it if one was offered, you understand, but it feels like such an arbitrary change. Beyond that though, Christensen (as much as I think he did a good job in the prequels) has this douchey smirk going the whole time. Shaw seemed genuinely happy and grateful. Watch the look he exchanges with Guiness. I don't know if they were really playing off each other or if their stuff was all shot independently of each other but it at least LOOKS like they're really sharing space with each other and that's what counts. But yeah, how would Luke recognize Christensen as Anakin?

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 28 Nov  2012, 23:58I saw the special edition of Star Wars with my family back in 1997 so I'll always remember that ressiue with great memories. We decided to give Empire and Jedi a miss though strangely. My dad reasoned it was the 20th anniversary of the original, so they would enchance that the most and therefore be more spectacular. I think he was right, the other two didn't have that many changes but I'd still like to go back and re-experience them at the time also.

Among the casual moviegoers, yeah, sounds about right. A New Hope seems to be the most universally acclaimed among wide audiences. Empire is the favorite among fans but wide audiences didn't and don't gravitate toward that one as much. So if you and your family skipped the other two, well, that would make a lot of sense.

There's a 3D rerelease of the "original" trilogy coming in 2014. I honestly don't think I'll bother. I don't see the point unless we're talking about the unaltered trilogy. The 2004 DVD's and Blu-Rays are sourced from the same horrible masters. I refer you to http://savestarwars.com/specialeditionfail.html for more. Why would I pay movie ticket price to see that kind of crap remastering job? No thanks, chief. Go original or go home.

I have no time for Star Wars any more aside from the original unaltered trilogy. Release those films in Blu-ray and I'll be content.

This sums up my feelings on the matter:


I love the original Star Wars trilogy. Unfortunately Return of the Jedi has come under a lot of fire ever since the special editions and prequel trilogy were released. I think that's largely because of the changes rendered to the 1997 rerelease (especially the awful dance number which completely destroyed the sense of dread permeating the first forty minutes of the original cut) and the structural similarities between it and the prequel films (Ewoks>>>>>>>>Gungans, but that's another topic altogether).

It always surprises me how many young people have never actually seen Richard Marquand's original theatrical cut of Return of the Jedi. They've only ever been exposed to the damaged version, and so it's understandable that they don't like it much. But I think the original cut, while arguably the weakest of the trilogy, is still a great film in its own right. And I'll happily defend it with my dying breath. I won't however defend the special editions or the prequel trilogy.

QuoteOn a side note I don't exactly care for the orginal versions of the Star Wars trilogy. I remember how they looked on television back in the early 90's and guys they were dating severly then.

I have to disagree with you there. Good quality practical effects will always age better than digital effects. Stop motion animation, models, puppets, matte paintings and animatronics all convey a sense of weight and texture that even the most advanced CGI effects simply don't have. That's why Lucas has to constantly redo the digital effects in the special editions whenever he reissues them on DVD.


And they still look fake. Meanwhile the original practical effects look just as good as ever.


Personally I don't have a problem with Lucas doing whatever the hell he wants with the films, just as long as I can watch the original unaltered versions. Obviously adding rocks to the foreground of certain shots has improved the films vastly, and the thousands of dollars it must have cost to make those changes was money well spent.


The absence of the rock, as well as non-blinking Ewoks, has doubtless haunted Lucas for years. And I'm glad he no longer has to live with his feelings of abandonment. But now that he's "improved" his films can't we have the original versions on Blu-ray too? It just seems absurd that we have one of the most critically acclaimed and commercially successful film trilogies of all time, and a good quality print isn't currently available to the fans. Instead we have to make do with the spoiled versions.

I don't want to degenerate into Lucas-bashing, as the whole "raped my childhood" thing is getting old. But here are some of my favourite Lucas spoofs anyway.


On a positive note, I'm optimistic about the Disney deal and the new trilogy. Finger crossed on that.

Did you ever see The People vs. George Lucas? It's basically a series of interviews with media types and fans who feel disenfranchised. There's a fair amount of angsting in there but at the same time they also raise several good points. The documentary starts off with some dude who's name escapes me saying something like "I love-hate George Lucas. I love-hate him very much." I've heard worse descriptions of any fan's "relationship" with Lucas. Anyway, overall it's worth watching.

I've seen a few clips from The People vs. George Lucas, but I've yet to see the entire movie. I'd be interested to know if Lucas himself has seen it and if so what his reaction was. It seems like he's only recently begun acknowledging the criticism that's been following him for years. I wonder if the film had something to with that. Earlier in the year he stated he wouldn't make any more Star Wars films, saying:

Quote"Why would I make any more, when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?"

In a way I feel sorry for the guy. But at the same time he needs to be aware that while Star Wars is his creation, it's still nevertheless subject to the approval of the public. Like all art, his work's commercial viability is dependent on the patronage of the fans. If they don't want to pay to see his films, then he'll no longer be able to produce them.

QuoteThe documentary starts off with some dude who's name escapes me saying something like "I love-hate George Lucas. I love-hate him very much."

I think that sums up the ambivalent feelings many of us harbour towards Lucas. We admire and respect him for giving us the original Star Wars and Indiana Jones trilogies. But we also resent him for not heeding constructive criticism and repeating the same mistakes over and over. Some of his errors can be dismissed as honest mistakes. But his obstinate refusal to release the unaltered Star Wars trilogy on Blu-ray is, in my opinion, totally inexcusable. It's as though he's doing it on purpose to get back at the fans for all the flack they've given him.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu,  6 Dec  2012, 20:59I've seen a few clips from The People vs. George Lucas, but I've yet to see the entire movie. I'd be interested to know if Lucas himself has seen it and if so what his reaction was.

What follows is unsubstantiated gossip but word 'round the campfire had it that Lucas got wind of the documentary relatively early on and also learned that Mark Hamill had been contacted by them about setting up an interview. I don't remember what Hamill's reaction would've been (he might've been preparing to tell them to go piss up a rope for all I know) but George's reps supposedly reached out to Hamill and said that if he does the interview, he can kiss future LFL Star Wars events (Celebration and the like) goodbye. Since things like that are apparently no small part of his income, he allegedly had to turn them down.

There's always some BS rumor out there and this is unconfirmed as far as I know but nevertheless it made the rounds for a long time there.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu,  6 Dec  2012, 20:59It seems like he's only recently begun acknowledging the criticism that's been following him for years. I wonder if the film had something to with that. Earlier in the year he stated he wouldn't make any more Star Wars films, saying:

Quote"Why would I make any more, when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?"

In a way I feel sorry for the guy. But at the same time he needs to be aware that while Star Wars is his creation, it's still nevertheless subject to the approval of the public. Like all art, his work's commercial viability is dependent on the patronage of the fans. If they don't want to pay to see his films, then he'll no longer be able to produce them.

Eh. That interview marked the moment when I turned on the haters and complainers. Up to then, I figured we were all Star Wars fans with different points of view. But for him to go on the record like he did... hell with them. I see their point of view but I will never forgive their methods.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu,  6 Dec  2012, 20:59I think that sums up the ambivalent feelings many of us harbour towards Lucas. We admire and respect him for giving us the original Star Wars and Indiana Jones trilogies. But we also resent him for not heeding constructive criticism and repeating the same mistakes over and over. Some of his errors can be dismissed as honest mistakes. But his obstinate refusal to release the unaltered Star Wars trilogy on Blu-ray is, in my opinion, totally inexcusable. It's as though he's doing it on purpose to get back at the fans for all the flack they've given him.

This is total speculation on my part but I think Lucas thought the fans would fall in love with the SE's, we'd appreciate the technical improvements and would never look back at the old versions. And to be fair, the 1997 remaster looked amazing and some of the effects shots genuinely were better or more interesting than the original versions (a lot of Cloud City stuff). But... well, you know what happened. Since then, I think Lucas has been a victim of his own pride. History has forgotten this but it took three years for LFL to stop calling it the "Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition" and simply call it the "Star Wars Trilogy". Three years. I've wondered more than once if the original plan had been to support both versions like ET or what have you but Lucas eventually just dug in his heels.

I've never heard that rumour about Hamill before, but I know Lucas can be ruthless with his former cast members when they challenge him. Dave Prowse (Darth Vader) has spoken at length about how Lucas had him blackballed after he gave away the ending of RotJ in an interview. It's a good job Lucas didn't read this interview Prowse gave in 1978. He gives away another plot twist in the last two paragraphs, and this was before Empire Strikes Back had even been filmed...

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QuoteThis is total speculation on my part but I think Lucas thought the fans would fall in love with the SE's, we'd appreciate the technical improvements and would never look back at the old versions. And to be fair, the 1997 remaster looked amazing and some of the effects shots genuinely were better or more interesting than the original versions (a lot of Cloud City stuff). But... well, you know what happened.

I think you're right about that. His attitude seems to be one of perseverance, as if he sticks to his guns for long enough we'll all come around to his way of thinking. But he left it too long. If he'd released the special editions within a few years of the originals it mightn't have been a problem. But twenty years? By then the movies had already been imprinted on the hearts and minds of a whole generation.

QuoteI've wondered more than once if the original plan had been to support both versions like ET or what have you but Lucas eventually just dug in his heels.

That's an interesting point. I always assumed both versions would be available and Lucas would leave it up to the fans to decide which they preferred. But then I recalled the commercials for the 1995 remastered VHS releases. Notice what the voice over says at the 55 second mark.


"This will be your last chance to own the original version of Star Wars..."

I remember seeing another commercial back in '95 where the voice over said something about the fans buying the original films "before they vanish" or something to that effect. At the time I didn't know what it meant, but looking back on it now I wonder if Lucas had always intended for things to play out the way they did.

It was a common thing at the time for Disney to say that such-and-such will be released on tape one final time or into theaters one final time, etc. Not saying your point doesn't have relevance, just that I don't think LFL did much else before 2000 to position the Special Edition as the only edition.

The younger Lucas was infinitely better than the older Lucas. For example Han Solo, a young smuggler and the type of person you'd see hanging out in a shady  cantina, shooting a rival dead and walking off with no regrets. Not taking any chances, ala that stupid 'Greedo and Han shoot at the same time' thing.

The changes really sapped my enthusiasm. I mean, putting a rock in front of R2 in the 1977 SW. Really? If you look at the picture now, how on Earth did R2 get in there and out again? He's blocked in. If Burton woke up one day and wanted to redo B89 and BR I'd be annoyed.

I honestly don't care about the prequels and don't feel the need for the classic trilogy to line up with them. The unaltered trilogy is where it begins and ends for me. I'm interested in what carry over material Episode 7 will have. But I can't see them beating the stuff they made 'back in the day'. It's nigh impossible to replicate charm.

-- Top Five Star Wars Predictions
Qualifiers- Over the next five or so years;
Sequence- unranked;

Original/unaltered movies- All six movies will be released in their unaltered forms sooner rather than later. Lucas already did the big Blu-Ray release. Disney doesn't have much to exploit with yet another re-release. Plus, they know the demand is out there.

Original/unaltered fans- Abrams and Disney will go far out of their way to appeal to fans of the oh-riginal trilogy. They want them back in the camp. Because of that, I'd be surprised if there's much reference to the prequels in the new movies apart from big picture stuff.

Casting- Hamill, Fisher, Ford, (Billy Dee) Williams, Mayhew and Daniels are all coming back. John Williams? Your guess is as good as anybody's. As to Episode 7, people will probably enjoy it but it likely won't become the new Empire. It won't become the new Phantom Menace either though.

Expanded universe reboot- This is shakier. Could be wrong here but all the games, novels, comics and other things are too unwieldy. Plus, Disney will want to rebuild Star Wars from the ground up. Why wouldn't they? My bet is Disney will rebuild the EU from scratch using the original versions of all six movies as their base canon. It's kind of inevitable if Episode 7 includes Chewie (who's dead in current continuity).

Fan Edits- Disney will eventually drop the hammer of God on people producing fan edits and other derivative works. It's how they've always rolled in the past. If you dig alternative cuts of Star Wars, my advice is to get 'em while you can.

- Runners-Up
Qualifiers- Even less likely than the above;

Scorched earth reboot- Delete the prequels too. Disney may think (with some justification) that they could do a better job of telling Vader's history. Modern audiences are very well acquainted with the idea of reboots. This could be a sellable concept. If it comes to this... yeah, I would actually expect the Disney prequels to be better than George's.

Holiday Special- Lucas only reluctantly acknowledged that the Holiday Special exists. Anybody care to wager Disney is more willing to laugh about it? After all, it's another Blu-Ray to sell and it's not like it's *THEIR* screw up...

Apparently Disney wants to release a Star Wars movie every year -  a movie for the sequel trilogy in one year, and the other being a standalone movie in the next year.

Source: http://entertainment.ie/cinema/news/Disney-set-to-release-a-new-Star-Wars-film-every-year/178019.htm (http://entertainment.ie/cinema/news/Disney-set-to-release-a-new-Star-Wars-film-every-year/178019.htm)

I had a friend telling me recently that he actually prefers the prequel trilogy than the original trilogy. Worse, he even says Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars of all time. WTF?!  :o

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 22 Apr  2013, 14:04Apparently Disney wants to release a Star Wars movie every year -  a movie for the sequel trilogy in one year, and the other being a standalone movie in the next year.

Source: http://entertainment.ie/cinema/news/Disney-set-to-release-a-new-Star-Wars-film-every-year/178019.htm (http://entertainment.ie/cinema/news/Disney-set-to-release-a-new-Star-Wars-film-every-year/178019.htm)

Yeah, not sure what to think of that. I could see it working out really well. But that's not the only possible outcome...

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 22 Apr  2013, 14:04I had a friend telling me recently that he actually prefers the prequel trilogy than the original trilogy. Worse, he even says Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars of all time. WTF?!  :o

Mmm. I can kinda sorta see that, actually. The prequels are nowhere near as well done as they could've and should've been... but on a story level, yeah, I do think they could have been better than the original trilogy. The original trilogy has the better characters. That's not open to debate. But I could believe the story isn't as strong as the prequels. The prequel story just isn't as well executed.

I agree the execution was off in parts during the prequels, but ROTS is my favourite of that bunch. Things started to happen.

The final battle on Mustafar does that on its own for me. I liked the overall darker tone of the film and the sense of foreboding. I had been waiting for ages to see Palpatine reveal himself, so when he harshens his tone and says "are you threatening me master Jedi?", I got excited. Also the attack of the temple mixed in with the order 66 transition was quite a powerful, emotional moment.

I'm on a serious Star Wars kick right now. So. Lost a lot of my original enthusiasm for the prequels. Fanedits which attempt to "redeem" them seem like a waste to me though.

So, what then? Well, the whole reason the prequels let a lot of people down is because the original trilogy hinted at all this cool stuff that went on as the backstory which the prequels may or may not have really delivered on. But... maybe it's better that way? Maybe it's best if we only get the flavor of what the prequel story without being burdened by midichlorians* and Jar Jar?

My original idea was to just use the prequel trailers as replacements for the prequels themselves. But then I remembered that Star Wars- A Musical Journey DVD that came with the Revenge of the Sith score. What if portions of that served as your prequel canon? No real story going, not much dialogue but... dammit, it could work! To YouTube!

-- Dark Forces Conspire
Couldn't find a YouTube video for it but it's basically Duel of the Fates and a lot of battle stuff.

-- A Hero Rises/A Fateful Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWg-nllidHM

-- A Hero Falls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GA8aUe7on8

On the whole, there are worse compromises. No, you don't get a very complex story... but then again you also don't get the prequels as we know them right now either. You get the general flavor of what went on without getting bogged down by Separatists, trade disputes and taxation of space routes.

Until Disney remakes the prequels (which I maintain is on the table), these will have to do.

* To be fair though, midichlorians never bothered me. I thought the Force as a hereditary thing was implicit in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back and explicit in Return of the Jedi.

Loved the Musical Journey, IMO Star Wars works as an "extended music video" with the story told only through visuals, clever editing, narration and very little dialogue. I don't hate the prequels (I even loved Episode III), but Williams' new compositions like the Duel or the Love Theme were easily one of the best things about them.

Lucas has said (over and over again) that his films rely more on visuals and music to tell the story than dialogue. Like Giles says, I'd like to test that theory. So I've been working on a silent/instrumental edition of Attack of the Clones. May or may not finish it (or do anything with it if I do) but I'm interested to see just how well the story can be told without dialogue. We'll see how it goes.

Apologies if these have already been posted. But they needed to be.

Don't forget this one, I liked it so much I bought a MP3 of it off Amazon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9tgLnI0fFc

For a fan-made production, this is quite impressive. A lot of hard work and technical ingenuity went into it.


I like how they've mapped Guinness' features onto the stuntman's body. A similar technique was used to place the actors' faces onto the stunt duellists' bodies in the Prequel Trilogy, most notably during Dooku's fight scenes. It makes me wonder if something like this could be incorporated into future Blu-ray releases of Episode IV. I'm sure Lucas would approve.


Now don't get me wrong – I'm sick of the alterations to the Original Trilogy and I refuse to purchase the Blu-rays until the theatrical cuts are released. And I'm happy with the Obi-Wan vs. Vader duel in the original cut of the film. But if you are going to have an updated version featuring new effects, and you want the fight choreography to be more stylistically consistent with the other films, then surely this is the sort of alteration that makes sense.


Ideally they could release a 2-disk Blu-ray of each of the Original Trilogy films. Disc 1 could contain the original version for old fogies like me, and disc 2 could contain the 'Saga Cut' with all of Lucas' alterations and the new Obi-Wan vs. Vader duel. That way fans can pick whichever version they prefer.

I'm pretty much with SN. My objection to the Special Editions is that they don't appear to be of a piece with the prequels in any way whatsoever. You get 99% of the limitations of the original trilogy mixed with some really horrible CGI. It's just a waste.

I oppose altering the trilogy. But if the trilogy must be altered, I don't see why greater care couldn't have been used like this upgraded lightsaber duel. It is consistent with the prequels and is more dynamic. This technology could easily have been used for the 2004 DVD release. Of course, the problem is that this requires a lot of time and money. Lucas has mostly preferred to alter the original trilogy on the cheap. The results are commensurate with that approach too, I'd say.

The nice thing is that fan editors can use bits and pieces of this duel for their fan edits. Whether or not that's a good thing is above my pay grade.

Very well done sequence with first rate digital enhancements and choreography.

Well, that was pretty sweet.

Ugh. MCU head Kevin Feige is reportedly developing a new Star Wars movie.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2019/film/news/marvel-kevin-feige-star-wars-movie-1203350053/amp/

This means we will get even more awkward MCU-style humour, as we got In TLJ. No thank you.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 27 Sep  2019, 16:33
Ugh. MCU head Kevin Feige is reportedly developing a new Star Wars movie.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2019/film/news/marvel-kevin-feige-star-wars-movie-1203350053/amp/

This means we will get even more awkward MCU-style humour, as we got In TLJ. No thank you.

Lucas personally selected Kathleen Kennedy to take over operations at Lucasfilm after the sale. Kennedy has always been a hands-on executive producer. She's a creative force. That characteristic along with her long friendship with Lucas is probably why Lucas (wrongly) believed she'd be a natural choice to replace him.

But you know what happened next only too well.

For Feige to be handed the reins to anything related to Star Wars can only be interpreted as a sidelining of Kennedy. There's no positive spin to put on this. Kennedy has ruined the franchise and now Disney seems to be taking action on that. And if Feige's film(s) outperform Kennedy's... well, Disney will have some hard choices to make. Feige might be able to produce a Star Wars film here and there but the MCU has been his baby for a long time. Do they dare take Feige away from the MCU to focus on Star Wars? Do they dare not do it?

Either way, Kennedy is clearly on the outs with the suits at Disney. I think it's wonderful. It's no more than she deserves.

I saw this tweet from a user called Dataracer sharing screenshots of Disney CEO Bob Iger's autobiography.

He revealed:

• Lucas doesn't like Disney's take on Star Wars. He was very unhappy with TFA, lamented its lack of originality.
• Lucas wrote outlines for each film in the sequel trilogy, which Iger and co felt they were under no obligation to use them.
• Lucas was very upset when he was informed none of his outlines would be used and learned what the sequel trilogy was going to be. He was even under the impression that Disney made a tacit promise that his outlines would be used, but this wasn't apparently communicated to him very well.

This reads as if they tricked Lucas into selling the franchise.

https://twitter.com/Dataracer117/status/1176249071172030464

Lucas should blame Kathleen Kennedy for not looking out for his best interests in his ideas for the sequel trilogy.

Quote from: Kamdan on Sat, 28 Sep  2019, 14:23
Lucas should blame Kathleen Kennedy for not looking out for his best interests in his ideas for the sequel trilogy.

It's better to fade away gracefully like an old soldier than to burn out. The opposite happens all the time, though. People can't resist the urge to come back but they end up tarnishing memories. My strongest advice is to fight any of those desires and keep the past in the past. You need a really good reason but even then it's a roll of the dice. By refusing to get the band back together, John Lennon did exactly the right thing and preserved the Beatles as a cherished memory.

It's like the Titanic sinking - the fact it went to the bottom of the ocean means it now lives forever. Otherwise it probably would've been unceremoniously scrapped and largely forgotten. It's also like a good sportsman - retire with some petrol left in the tank, otherwise you're left with faded splendor. The good times seem far away and your feelings about them can't help but be reduced. Star Wars has well and truly burned out and left people with a bad taste in their mouth. The Terminator franchise being another good example with dud film after dud film, with the fans clinging onto those 1984 and 1991 entries.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 29 Sep  2019, 01:16It's also like a good sportsman - retire with some petrol left in the tank, otherwise you're left with faded splendor.

Quite true. If Roy Jones, Jr had retired from boxing in 2003, he probably would be remembered as one of the greats. Certainly he would've had a perfect record.

Nowadays though... well, less so.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 29 Sep  2019, 01:16The good times seem far away and your feelings about them can't help but be reduced. Star Wars has well and truly burned out and left people with a bad taste in their mouth.

Star Wars has the most divided fandom I've ever seen. Original trilogy fans, 1-6 fans, Clone Wars fans, new crapola fans, etc. I always knew this was a difficult IP to manage. But I also figured back in 2012 that if anybody was up to the task, it was Disney. Time has proven my initial impression quite wrong.

Looking back at it, a nostalgia-driven slowburn made up of standalone A Star Wars Story films leading up to the sequel trilogy probably would've been the smarter long term play for Disney. Less instant gratification for them but a longer revenue stream over time.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 29 Sep  2019, 01:16The Terminator franchise being another good example with dud film after dud film, with the fans clinging onto those 1984 and 1991 entries.

Some people would consider this sacrilegious. But the more time goes by, the more I think no sequels should've ever been made. The original film is a virtually perfect causal-effect time travel story. The war's conclusion is what guarantees that the war will ever occur in the first place. It's perfect. But every subsequent film has only watered that original premise down more and more. It's to the point now where the power and originality of the first film is pretty much completely lost now.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 29 Sep  2019, 15:41
Looking back at it, a nostalgia-driven slowburn made up of standalone A Star Wars Story films leading up to the sequel trilogy probably would've been the smarter long term play for Disney. Less instant gratification for them but a longer revenue stream over time.

Absolutely agree. Rogue One was received warmly for the most part. Solo was a box office disappointment, but I don't people outright hate the content. By the time Solo was released the burnout was really being felt and the film bore the brunt of that. The Anthology films are set in the timeline we enjoy the most, but there's now a sense of disappointment and melancholy knowing this timeline eventually leads into DisneyWars.

If you told me 20 years ago that Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fischer were reprising their roles I would've been hyped beyond belief. If it didn't happen I would've shouted it down as a wasted missed opportunity. People wanted this badly, but Disney let us down with their script choices, plain and simple, to the point we'd rather this didn't happen in the first place. The Force Awakens was received rather well, but by retreading old tropes it made the foundations for subsequent saga films weak. As was said in Gladiator, "win the crowd." Disney haven't done that.

After doing a rewatch of the prequel trilogy, I've now grown to become fond of Revenge of the Sith. I used to dismiss it for Hayden Christiansen's acting and had a hard time believing any of the prequels were set in the past due to the effects being made compared to the original trilogy. But I've gone back from my initial assessment and now changed my mind.

ROTS, in my opinion, is the best of the prequel trilogy; it has the best Lightsaber combat you'll find in any film of the entire saga, the stakes within the Clone Wars and Darth Sidious tearing the entire Jedi council apart with his commencement of Order 66, and like it or not, it shows how fallible Anakin Skywalker is. Attack of the Clones showed us Anakin's temptation to the dark side once he slaughters the Tusken Raiders to avenge his mother's murder, and Palpatine knew how to manipulate his unfocused anger against the Jedi. This makes me wonder if Qui-Gon Jinn never died in The Phantom Menace, maybe he would've been the father figure that Anakin needed to deal with his emotions.

I think it was Ewen MacGregor, while doing a promo for his Obi-Wan Kenobi show, who mentioned that Obi-Wan was less of a father figure and more of a brother to Anakin. Without that parental figure to guide Anakin, he became more vulnerable. I can see the point. Luke was already raised by his uncle and aunt until he was a young man and was better at coping with tragedies when Owen and Beru were murdered and had Yoda mentor him. In contrast, it could be said that Anakin being taken under the Jedi may have stunted his emotional development and Obi-Wan just didn't have the wisdom and experience needed to teach Anakin to resist the dark side.

I know it sounds I'm babbling a bit, but the more I analyse the circumstances surrounding the characters of prequels and the originals, the more I appreciate the lore. I still have some criticisms for ROTS, but I enjoy it much more than when I first watched it years ago.