Batman Forever isn't bad. I said it. It seems like people like to clump it with Batman and Robin without fairly judging it, and dwell on the negative aspects. To me, this movie is a classic in its own right, and does the best it can with the theme given.
Gotham City was given a futuristic overhaul. It's not like the hellish gothic New York style seen in Burton's films, but fits the theme of the movie. The CGI opens it up and makes it seem more vast (having a smaller set was a drawback with 'Returns'). Speaking of which the film uses a lot of early CGI being in '95, but it has aged gracefully. It may stand out a little, but it wasn't overused and doesn't distrupt the film.
Val Kilmer is a great Batman. I think he comes in right behind Keaton, he's got a great bat-voice, and a good build. There's a lot of action sequences, and he puts up an impressive fight. Along with some cool new gadgets, the Batsuit is changed again. This time, it seems to be more influenced on the '89 suit (which is a good thing) but sleaker. Personality-wise, we get to see more of the billionaire-lifestyle of Bruce. I agree with Bob Kane that he was a good casting decision.
The supporting cast was solid as well. The character arc of Riddler was nice as well, he seemed to be the main focus. Meanwhile, Robin is played in a more realistic manner. He is the one who wants vengeance, while Batman isn't ready for a partner. And we see more of Gordon and Alfred, which is good.
The nitpicks are mainly Two-Face. While he does have the split-personality down, he sort of appears out of nowhere, and tends to overact. The rebuilt Batmobile also isn't as sweet as the original, but I can live with it. That's pretty much why I love Batman Forever in a nutshell.
What I liked about BF:
U2 and Seal bring good music. The score by Goldenthal suits the movie and gives us a hummable main theme.
We get to see Bruce Wayne the businessman inside Wayne Enterprises.
Two-Face's first reveal.
Jim Carrey's performance. I especially enjoy him before donning the green uniform, his "I'll make you understand" stalker mode ands killing Stickley.
Nicole Kidman providing beautiful eye candy.
Bruce getting into the batcave via that secret tunnel under the chair. Logic be damned, I've always liked that.
Michael Gough always delivered the goods as Alfred.
The deleted scenes. I like what they had there. Two-Face's escape, the big bat in the batcave. The Batmobile turning up at the wrong location, etc.
Batman jumping off large buildings (into the batmobile and also jumping into Two-Face's tunnel trap)
Batman using his intellect to some some riddles, even if they are quite simple.
Batman using a range of gadgets - (batarang, batbola, grappling gun, TV on his watch, batarang launcher, goo gun, etc)
Arkham Asylum's design with the dark sky expressionism.
The batcave design was fine.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 21 Aug 2012, 06:39U2 and Seal bring good music.
To this day, I really like the Seal song and video. The U2 thing, I can take or leave. But Seal? For some reason, that video epitomizes what that whole summer was all about for me.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 21 Aug 2012, 06:39Jim Carrey's performance. I especially enjoy him before donning the green uniform, his "I'll make you understand" stalker mode ands killing Stickley.
For some reason, the stalker thing never sunk in with me until this past week as I've gone through my Forever kick. I honestly have no excuse.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 21 Aug 2012, 06:39The batcave design was fine.
After Forever came out, I remember thinking that if the comics were to permanently adopt that design of the cave, I'd have been fine with it. A lot of Forever designs have held up pretty well and the Batcave is one of them.
That version of the Batmobile is another.
Bruce's speech about the dangers of killing for revenge.
The first time I heard the line "you need help, Harvey. Give it up." I thought to myself---yep, that's Batman.
Quote from: greggbray on Sun, 2 Sep 2012, 00:16The first time I heard the line "you need help, Harvey. Give it up." I thought to myself---yep, that's Batman.
I like it too... but, and this is nitpicky, I always thought that line had a strange ADR'ish quality to it. It could be production audio for all I know but it just sounds weird to me.
Could be.
Strictly in terms of Batman-in-costume, I have very few complaints about how Batman is written or portrayed. Even the goofy line "and now you've devised a way to read men's minds" works with Kilmer's performance, the angle of the shot, etc. Oh, there are a few exceptions: The bat-butt, "I'll get drive through," and the whole "are you trying to get under my cape, doctor/the car, right? Chicks dig the car". In other words, about 10 seconds in total bug me.
I still have some issues with Kilmer's Wayne--it's inconsistent. There is some strong work with O'Donnel, but the chemistry with the broader performances isn't there. He just looks wooden next to Carrey, but I'm not sure how much of that is on kilmer, and how much of that is on Carrey.
As this is the thread of 'what they got right,' I'd say 90% of how Batman is brought to screen is done quite well.
Quote from: greggbray on Mon, 3 Sep 2012, 00:37Strictly in terms of Batman-in-costume, I have very few complaints about how Batman is written or portrayed. Even the goofy line "and now you've devised a way to read men's minds" works with Kilmer's performance, the angle of the shot, etc. Oh, there are a few exceptions: The bat-butt, "I'll get drive through," and the whole "are you trying to get under my cape, doctor/the car, right? Chicks dig the car". In other words, about 10 seconds in total bug me.
Yes, let's talk about that. Kilmer makes those lines work. I don't mean he somehow makes them serious and credible. But he delivers them in such a dry way that there's humor to it without an out loud chuckle. You smirk a little but it's not a knee-slapper. I've got the utmost respect for Val Kilmer as a
film actor and oddly enough I think Batman Forever does a good job of showing some of his range.
Quote from: greggbray on Mon, 3 Sep 2012, 00:37I still have some issues with Kilmer's Wayne--it's inconsistent. There is some strong work with O'Donnel, but the chemistry with the broader performances isn't there. He just looks wooden next to Carrey, but I'm not sure how much of that is on kilmer, and how much of that is on Carrey.
I viewed that as Bruce being a chameleon. He's got a lot of his defenses down with Chase when he's Bruce. He takes on a softer tone of voice and speaks a little more slowly. When he's in public, he puts some authority and stiffness into his voice. "You've devised a way to read men's minds" and "it just raises too many questions" vs. basically anything he says to Alfred, Chase or Dick (after he learns the secret).
Quote from: greggbray on Mon, 3 Sep 2012, 00:37As this is the thread of 'what they got right,' I'd say 90% of how Batman is brought to screen is done quite well.
Agreed. One thing I've got to Joel props for is the stunts and action sequences. In comics, people jump off buildings, dangle off aircraft, fight dozens of attackers and all kinds of other death-defying BS without breaking a sweat. Schumacher brought all of that across pretty credibly in my opinion. On top of that, he reimagined Gotham City in a stylized and fantastic way that still works for the screen. You could argue the B&R Gotham City was too busy from a design standpoint but the BF Gotham works pretty well with those mixtures of models, CGI and location shooting.
I like Batman Forever a lot. It definitely is better than Batman & Robin, it's darker and I like that. I like my Batman as dark as possible.
Loved the Batsuit. I have some issues with the whole film, though. "I'll get drive-through" is one of them. And the Batman smiling after meeting with Chase at her apartment, that I hate.
The whole feel of the movie is really good to me, though. Good for a Schumacher-directed Batman film.
Quote from: Batman88 on Wed, 12 Sep 2012, 11:00
I like Batman Forever a lot. It definitely is better than Batman & Robin
I'm not so sure about that any more.
If you
completely turn off your mind and buy into the world of crow-B&R, it's the more honest all out experience.
Meaning that B&R knows what it is and doesn't pretend to be more than that ? I agree about that, though I think Forever is definitely darker, don't you think ?
I was 16 when Forever came out and now I can see all the cheesyness clearly but I still love the movie because I was a kid at the time and it was a fun movie.
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Quote from: Batman88 on Wed, 12 Sep 2012, 13:22
Meaning that B&R knows what it is and doesn't pretend to be more than that ? I agree about that, though I think Forever is definitely darker, don't you think ?
with all due respect, I hate how people will use that line 'a movie doesnt know what type of movie it wants to be.' A serious movie can't have jokes here and there? A horror film can't have action? Etc. My favourite movie is back to the future which blends sci-fi, comedy, adventure, action, and drama. I don't see people saying "well it doesnt know what type of film it wants to be" ... the reason is it's well received. It's the type of argument comic book fans will use 'oh that was nothing like the comics' ... I find some people will use it only when it's convenient towards their argument.
For the record I don't think batman forever is the best bat film but it is the best OVERALL bat film. Meaning it mixes gothic undertones, comedy, action, drama, psychology. It's the one film a kid could watch with their grandparents and everyone be entertained. The original batman a close second; batman returns and the nolan films are too adult oriented, batman and robin is too kiddy.
The term " doesn know what it wants to be" is in refference to tone and direction, not genre. Pushing the envelope in genre mixing is always welcome in cinema. But when a film tries to do too much without finding a consistant tone or self awareness it becomes somewhat disjointed.
Take " Donnie Darko" for instance, it tried to mix, sci fi, satire, horror, fantasy, comedy and drama all into one film, which is fine, but every attempt at each genre was a tonal shift in the story and film, making it a mixed bag of what the veiwer is supposed to feel or what the film is trying to say. Making the lead character a Dues ex machina in every scene doesnt help either.
Batman Forever is an oddball of the batman films, its a very entertaining movie in its own right, but its more interesting to have seen what could have been. its a straight narrow shot down the middle, of being " meh" and being " good". For me the only thing that bothers me, is linking two face as Riddlers meat puppet, when he should have stayed Robins subplot, it wouldve been much more interesting to see Batman/Bruce being on the race to recover his identity which Riddler stole/discovered, instead we get "holy rusted metal" on a giant green rubix cube island. Wish in one hand i suppose.