posting this here as it could contain spoilers
for a first time or once in a while viewing experience
1. the dark knight
2. batman 89
3. batman begins
4. the dark knight rises
5. Batman Returns
6. Batman Forever
7. Batman 66
8. Batman and Robin
for repeated viewing
1. the dark knight
2. Batman 89
3. Batman Forever
4. Batman Returns
5. The dark knight rises
6. Batman Begins
7. Batman 66
8. Batman and Robin
Returns/89
Dark Knight
66
Rises
Begins
& Robin
Forever
BR
B89
B66
TDK
BB
Big gap:
TDKR
BF
B&R
B89/BR
TDK
BB/TDKR
BF
B&R
B66
1989
Returns
TDK
TDKR
1966
Begins
Forever
& Robin
BR
B89
DKR
TDK
BB
B66
BF
B&R
Batman Returns
batman 1989
Batman Begins
TDKR
TDK
nothing else
1. Batman 1989
2. Batman Returns
3. The Dark Knight
4. Batman Forever
5. Batman Begins
6. The Dark Knight Rises
7. Batman & Robin
8. Batman 1966
Batman Returns
Batman/ The Dark Knight
Batman Forever (after many years of holding my nose up at it, I've recently warmed up to portions of it--it is still problematic, but has some decent material in there)
Batman Begins
To be candid, I wasn't all that receptive to The Dark Knight Rises. It's a well crafted film, no doubt, and I certainly don't fault folks for enjoying it. I just didn't feel like I was the film's audience.
Batman and Robin: I recently tried to watch this, but just couldn't.
I'm not sure where to put Batman 66. It's probably still toward the top, but I feel like it needs to be in an entirely different category given the drastic difference in tone and world of story.
Quote from: greggbray on Sun, 26 Aug 2012, 06:33Batman Forever (after many years of holding my nose up at it, I've recently warmed up to portions of it--it is still problematic, but has some decent material in there)
Quote from: greggbray on Sun, 26 Aug 2012, 06:33Batman and Robin: I recently tried to watch this, but just couldn't.
I'm coming to a new appreciation of the Schumacher flicks. I'd be the last one to argue their artistic superiority to basically anything but at the same rate I have to applaud the guy for having the cojones to use stylized visuals and a sense of vastly heightened reality. If the Nolan films taught me nothing else, it's that Batman is as much
OF the comics as any other character... and arguably more so than most. No, Schumacher didn't quite deliver Batman as I've always thought of him but there's a lot of eye candy in those movies. Whether or not it's always appropriate to Batman... well, there's no accounting for taste in these things.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 26 Aug 2012, 07:21
I'm coming to a new appreciation of the Schumacher flicks. I'd be the last one to argue their artistic superiority to basically anything but at the same rate I have to applaud the guy for having the cojones to use stylized visuals and a sense of vastly heightened reality. If the Nolan films taught me nothing else, it's that Batman is as much OF the comics as any other character... and arguably more so than most. No, Schumacher didn't quite deliver Batman as I've always thought of him but there's a lot of eye candy in those movies. Whether or not it's always appropriate to Batman... well, there's no accounting for taste in these things.
I can see where you're coming from in regards to Schumacher's movies proving a clear comic book world, in terms of the look and the situations. I quite like some of the things they did - see my post in the 'what BF got right' thread.
They sort of replicate the breezy feeling of the Burtonverse, but among other things Schumacher's take on Batman feels too much like a regular superhero for my tastes, eg. his entrance and introduction to Chase in BF. In comparison, a scene I do like quite a lot more from the same movie is the following: Dick fighting the neon gang. Batman is standing at the top of a building, motionless like a gargoyle. The head thug yells out his name and everyone scatters as Batman descends. The power of the name and what he represents. I preferred that type of thing and wish we got more of it.
As time passes, they can't be considered a threat in the same way, and I think that does help. If you like big and bright things, that's provided in spades. It's always there if you ever want to watch it or feel in that particular mood. Though there's a feeling of BF and B&R having its cake and eating it too with the 'serious' scenes.
QuoteThey sort of replicate the breezy feeling of the Burtonverse, but among other things Schumacher's take on Batman feels too much like a regular superhero for my tastes, eg. his entrance and introduction to Chase in BF. In comparison, a scene I do like quite a lot more from the same movie is the following: Dick fighting the neon gang. Batman is standing at the top of a building, motionless like a gargoyle. The head thug yells out his name and everyone scatters as Batman descends. The power of the name and what he represents. I preferred that type of thing and wish we got more of it.
I have to concur here. Though the aesthetic of the neon gang was perhaps a bit too bright for my tastes (though to be fair in 1995 it was right up my alley for a hallucinogenic moment) the thug reaction to Batman's appearance is exactly what it should have been. The 'let's run like the dickens' reaction. It recalls the urban legend set up from the first film, where the two thugs discuss Johnny Gobbs.
Some of the deleted scenes work for me--in particular the red book sub plot. It doesn't fix all of what ails BF, but it feels like a good edit could have added some quality and resonance to the film.
Quote from: greggbray on Sun, 26 Aug 2012, 21:03
I have to concur here. Though the aesthetic of the neon gang was perhaps a bit too bright for my tastes (though to be fair in 1995 it was right up my alley for a hallucinogenic moment) the thug reaction to Batman's appearance is exactly what it should have been. The 'let's run like the dickens' reaction. It recalls the urban legend set up from the first film, where the two thugs discuss Johnny Gobbs.
Mhmm. It's a good little scene. I don't usually like Batman being out in plain view ala his public introduction at the start of BF. I just don't like that sort of thing. I can accept it much, much easier in the 60s show. But if it's a bunch of criminals seeing Batman ala the neon gang, I'm cool. They can go back and say they've seen the Batman. People can either believe or disbelieve them. In BR, Batman glides off the building and people see him. But he's surrounded by bats, and that only heightens the mythical nature of him. A Batman surrounded by his kind. Quite scary, eh? And when he's chased by the angry mob, they only catch a glimpse of him before he's locked up good and tight in the Batmobile.
I completely understand why some of you are purposely refusing to rank the Adam West film. It's too far removed and even if you don't like the silly tone it reflected the tone of the comics at the time. They gave the fans what they wanted at the time, we can't really fault them for putting out a film which would not be reflective of batman 25-50 years later. The adam west show made no secret of the fact that it was intended for the kiddies. Contrast that to The Schumacher fans which went for a target audiences in reverse order of age; Burton films for adult, Forever more of a family film and Batman and Robin being for kids.
A lot of films are tied for me, but my number one is by a long margin:
The Dark Knight
Batman/Batman Begins
The Dark Knight Rises/Batman Returns (In a sense this two films are equals for me, I have a bit of issues with both films, and think that both take too much of a departure from "my" Batman. But I can objectively view both and admit that they are well made films.)
(big gap)
Batman Forever
Batman and Robin
As for '66, I'll leave it separate since it's a different tone and take on the character, but if you accept it for what it is it is an enjoyable campy comedy. But I don't really think I can rank it with the others (although I certainly enjoy it more than the Schumaker films).
While I am so pleased to read such a great liking for Burton's films on here at top of the lists I do hope we're all not being totally biased in rejecting/complaining about the Nolan movies like those fools on imdb lol
I geniunely love the Nolan films too. They brought Batman back to the screen after those "wilderness years" and felt like the good ol days of Michael Keaton. So I'd be happy to see either of them ranked highly.
I really think Dark Knight Rises is no more a masterpiece than Howard the Duck however. Seriously. It was great. I don't think it comes any close to the original Keaton Batman however. And before you scream "what about in script/characters terms???" well yes I suppose. But wasn't the story merely borrowed from Ra's Al Ghul's Begins scheme and a few Batman graphic novels like The Cult? No different than Burton taking elements of The Laughing Fish in my book. But in terms of design Anton Furst is still the master. Then you have the epic Elfman music. Keaton (the definitive Batman for me). Nicholson as The Joker (right down to makeup lifted from the comics). The coolest ever Batmobile. The fact basically that it was the first one (and don't they say original is always best?). Yep sorry Batman 89 is still the mightiest. It's also the most important still. Thousands if not millions of new fans such as myself discovered the character through this one little summer movie. Including those who have turned against it and refuse to rank it their best ever. I'm not that foolish lol
My other ranking?
Batman Returns
Batman Begins
Batman Forever (Yes really! It truly was "the greatest show on earth" in the summer in 1995! And it had bleedin Robin for jimminy jellikers sake!)
The Dark Knight
Batman 1966 (Again, yes really! How can you not love the rubber shark and that submarine fight at the end? lol)
The Dark Knight Rises
Batman and Robin
My problem with rankings and/or ratings for Batman movies is that they bring different sensibilities about the character to the screen. Batman's a dynamic character and the movies bring that across. Good for him but it doesn't easily lend itself to comparative rankings. The Adam West movie has endearing qualities so part of me might want to give it a 7.5/10. But I could actually picture scoring TDK at 7.5 too even though I'm not sure it's accurate at all to say I like them equally.
Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 19 Sep 2012, 23:20While I am so pleased to read such a great liking for Burton's films on here at top of the lists I do hope we're all not being totally biased in rejecting/complaining about the Nolan movies like those fools on imdb lol
My beef there is, yeah, those obnoxious fans have kind of ruined the Nolan films for me. I mean, I was never going to be a devotee to begin with but I might've been more hip to them if the douchebags hadn't constantly been trolling the Internet telling all and sundry they're the greatest movies to ever be filmed and any opinion to the contrary will include the gusher questioning your genetic ancestry, your personal hygiene and the nature of your relationship with your own mother while opening your most probable destination in the afterlife up for speculation... and urging you to make peace with it because your life will very shortly be coming to an end if they have anything to say about it.
Apart from pointing out that I own guns, am a great shot and live in a stat where self-defense has a pretty broad meaning (so bring it, hipster), there's not much I can contribute to that kind of "discourse".
That all of the above comes at the expense of all other adaptations, particularly the 1989-1997 franchise
without which the Nolanverse wouldn't be possible, is also bothersome.
To bring this all back to more worthwhile discussion though, my recent viewings of the Schumacher films has given me a whole new appreciation for what he was attempting with BF and B&R. There are certain indefensible things but then that same accusation can be leveled against BB (idiotic one-liners), TDK (swiss cheese plot), TDKRises (where's Batman?!), B89 (Elfman's score is occasionally buried in the mix, some sound effects sound kind of generic) and BR (being shot completely on a soundstage does little to create the illusion of a large, outside world) so maybe it's better to not sweat the small stuff... particularly about movies that make no pretense of being anything other than fun action movies.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 20 Sep 2012, 06:01
My problem with rankings and/or ratings for Batman movies is that they bring different sensibilities about the character to the screen. Batman's a dynamic character and the movies bring that across. Good for him but it doesn't easily lend itself to comparative rankings. The Adam West movie has endearing qualities so part of me might want to give it a 7.5/10. But I could actually picture scoring TDK at 7.5 too even though I'm not sure it's accurate at all to say I like them equally.
Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Wed, 19 Sep 2012, 23:20While I am so pleased to read such a great liking for Burton's films on here at top of the lists I do hope we're all not being totally biased in rejecting/complaining about the Nolan movies like those fools on imdb lol
My beef there is, yeah, those obnoxious fans have kind of ruined the Nolan films for me. I mean, I was never going to be a devotee to begin with but I might've been more hip to them if the douchebags hadn't constantly been trolling the Internet telling all and sundry they're the greatest movies to ever be filmed and any opinion to the contrary will include the gusher questioning your genetic ancestry, your personal hygiene and the nature of your relationship with your own mother while opening your most probable destination in the afterlife up for speculation... and urging you to make peace with it because your life will very shortly be coming to an end if they have anything to say about it.
Apart from pointing out that I own guns, am a great shot and live in a stat where self-defense has a pretty broad meaning (so bring it, hipster), there's not much I can contribute to that kind of "discourse".
That all of the above comes at the expense of all other adaptations, particularly the 1989-1997 franchise without which the Nolanverse wouldn't be possible, is also bothersome.
To bring this all back to more worthwhile discussion though, my recent viewings of the Schumacher films has given me a whole new appreciation for what he was attempting with BF and B&R. There are certain indefensible things but then that same accusation can be leveled against BB (idiotic one-liners), TDK (swiss cheese plot), TDKRises (where's Batman?!), B89 (Elfman's score is occasionally buried in the mix, some sound effects sound kind of generic) and BR (being shot completely on a soundstage does little to create the illusion of a large, outside world) so maybe it's better to not sweat the small stuff... particularly about movies that make no pretense of being anything other than fun action movies.
I generally omit the Adam west film from comparisons. I know it has the same time interval from 1989 as 89 does from the dark knight rises (23 years). It would be poorly received if they made a batman film like that now but simply put it was the best way to make a batman film at the time; fans wanted it to be fun and silly and they didn't have anything close to the technology to make it look credible and dark (plus they wouldn't have done that anyhow with West in the lead). They gave the fans what they wanted at the time, it just doesnt happen to be what the current fans want.
I did start posting again on the IMDB batman boards for a short time again. I wont touch the Nolan boards but posted a bit on the Batman, Batman Returns boards. Normally I hate trolling but just couldnt resist here. I made a post asking why Nolanites felt from 2005-2008 that Burton had no business killing the joker yet Nolan can kill Ras Al Ghul, Two face, Talia and Bane. No surprise the Nolanites are now not only denying the criticism of the Joker's death but now claiming it's logical since all heroes kill their villains (which is not true, roughly half live and half die in the movies). By the way for those counting at home; 4 out of Nolan's 6 villains died (assuming you count Ras al ghul as dead, only the Joker and scarecrow survived). In the original series, 3 of the 8 died. Now granted I kind of played with the odds a little bit, I counted Catwoman as a Burton villain because she does fight Batman and plot against him but I didn't count Catwoman as a Nolan villain since her only antagonism is stealing Martha's diamonds at the beginning. Also add the fact that Nolan more or less killed BATMAN
Okay anyhow Nolan rant aside, I have the same hate for the dark knight many do. I wont say it's worse than Batman and Robin but it suffers from the same fate; taking itself way too seriously and going way over the top with what it wanted to do. The dark knight rises went way too far trying to evoke chaos and fear. The freeing of the prison wasn't needed, I get that selina needed to be released but other than that it was mainly done to prove a point which didnt need to be made- freeing prisoners creates chaos. And of course the entire bomb plan was overdone as well. Also i found it very reminiscent of the joker boat hijacking in the dark knight. Batman and robin obviously suffers from too much comedy. The dark knight rises would have been better as a shorter film, batman and robin would have been better with fewer jokes.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 20 Sep 2012, 06:01
My beef there is, yeah, those obnoxious fans have kind of ruined the Nolan films for me. I mean, I was never going to be a devotee to begin with but I might've been more hip to them if the douchebags hadn't constantly been trolling the Internet telling all and sundry they're the greatest movies to ever be filmed and any opinion to the contrary will include the gusher questioning your genetic ancestry, your personal hygiene and the nature of your relationship with your own mother while opening your most probable destination in the afterlife up for speculation... and urging you to make peace with it because your life will very shortly be coming to an end if they have anything to say about it.
Picture this. You upload a video about the Batwing which has nothing to do with Burton vs. Nolan comparisons, just B'89 footage, a little tribute to something you like. And, some guy jumps in to say how this showcases the difference between the "old" and the "new" Batman, and how "silly" the '89 Bruce was in his design for the Batwing, and how he wasn't able to hit the Joker etc. etc. Then you say something like "
it's movie vehicles, it's their design and not their supposed functionality that really counts, they couldn't exist anyway" and that "
this new Bat is just a prop hanging on a crane, it's how good it looks on screen that matters", and you receive 40 negative votes. Can't win with these people, my guess is that some see it like football, you either support Liverpool or Manchester United, you can't both, LOL.
My faves to watch;
Forever
89
Begins
May watch again for the novelty in a few years;
Returns
Batman 66
Will probably never watch again;
B&R
TDK
Jury is out;
TDKR
Quote from: SilentEnigma on Sat, 22 Sep 2012, 10:00Picture this. You upload a video about the Batwing which has nothing to do with Burton vs. Nolan comparisons, just B'89 footage, a little tribute to something you like. And, some guy jumps in to say how this showcases the difference between the "old" and the "new" Batman, and how "silly" the '89 Bruce was in his design for the Batwing, and how he wasn't able to hit the Joker etc. etc. Then you say something like "it's movie vehicles, it's their design and not their supposed functionality that really counts, they couldn't exist anyway" and that "this new Bat is just a prop hanging on a crane, it's how good it looks on screen that matters", and you receive 40 negative votes. Can't win with these people, my guess is that some see it like football, you either support Liverpool or Manchester United, you can't both, LOL.
Yep. Well, I can't say I relate to the soccer analogy because I'm not into sports but I get the point.
It just bothers me that the Coke/Pepsi mentality comes into it. It makes sense with Coke/Pepsi because Pepsi sucks but Batman has always been more dynamic than a drink and his strength of adaptability should be celebrated. It's a crucial hallmark of the character that there are so many interpretations and flavors and permutations. Even during "stable" periods, you have different approaches. In the 90's, Chuck Dixon and Graham Nolan did a post-Knightfall trilogy Batman that was fairly well adjusted and more of a swashbuckler/adventurer/detective kind of character while the Dough Moench/Kelley Jones Batman was uber-dark. And then there was Alan Grant/[insert artist here] on Shadow of the Bat with their almost continuity-agnostic, character-driven stories. It all fit together in one era and all of 'em are perfectly valid for their time.
It just bugs me that as a fanbase, we seem to understand that when it comes to comics but somehow it always gets lost in media adaptations. The Batwing thing you mention is a brilliant example of missing the point.
I don't think it's that simple that you can only like one or the other. There's plenty of batman fans such as myself; i like the dark knight better than both Burton films, like both burton films better than the dark knight rises and put begins between batman and batman returns.
Though it seems if you're a fan of any of the batman films you are either a Nolanite or hate the nolanites.
Quote from: SilentEnigma on Sat, 22 Sep 2012, 10:00
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 20 Sep 2012, 06:01
My beef there is, yeah, those obnoxious fans have kind of ruined the Nolan films for me. I mean, I was never going to be a devotee to begin with but I might've been more hip to them if the douchebags hadn't constantly been trolling the Internet telling all and sundry they're the greatest movies to ever be filmed and any opinion to the contrary will include the gusher questioning your genetic ancestry, your personal hygiene and the nature of your relationship with your own mother while opening your most probable destination in the afterlife up for speculation... and urging you to make peace with it because your life will very shortly be coming to an end if they have anything to say about it.
Picture this. You upload a video about the Batwing which has nothing to do with Burton vs. Nolan comparisons, just B'89 footage, a little tribute to something you like. And, some guy jumps in to say how this showcases the difference between the "old" and the "new" Batman, and how "silly" the '89 Bruce was in his design for the Batwing, and how he wasn't able to hit the Joker etc. etc. Then you say something like "it's movie vehicles, it's their design and not their supposed functionality that really counts, they couldn't exist anyway" and that "this new Bat is just a prop hanging on a crane, it's how good it looks on screen that matters", and you receive 40 negative votes. Can't win with these people, my guess is that some see it like football, you either support Liverpool or Manchester United, you can't both, LOL.
Glad you mentioned that. My own family who are merely casual Batman viewers hated the design of the upsettingly named "The Bat". They felt it looked more bug-like than Batwing. I was not impressed myself.
I mean it had propellors to fly didn't it? What's that about? It reminded me of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang who also required flight from such mundane means LOL
Then you look at Keaton's simple 89 model and it looks more Bat-like, cooler and aircraft-like than Nolanites can dream. So next time somebody gets you mad just use my Chitty Chitty reference LOL Hey a video showcasing it and The Bat would be a laugh!!
tcb
Yeah, the definition of close-mindedness. Those that love both versions seem to be either a small minority, or much less vocal
Quote from: SilentEnigma on Mon, 24 Sep 2012, 18:45
tcb
Yeah, the definition of close-mindedness. Those that love both versions seem to be either a small minority, or much less vocal
Never realized this but after my initial post, the next 8 replies had the 2 burton films first so maybe this is the burtonite board ;)
only myself and 1 other poster put a nolan film first and one person put a Schumacher film first. I guess it's hard not to make comparisons; same character but told basically 3 completely different ways. Maybe even more than that. Other than possibly the dark knight rises, every bat film has its own identity
Batman 66, batman and robin; the comedic silly versions
Batman 89; the gangster film noir
batman returns; the dark, horrific freak show
batman and forever; the hybrid. Something for everyone
batman begins. the story driven origin journey
the dark knight; the gritty crime drama
TDKR kind of blends half begins and half the dark knight. Maybe thats why I don't like it; it basically didnt do many things we hadnt seen before besides the ending. The beginning was interesting in the sense that it's common in superhero movies for the hero to give up their mantle (superman 2, spider-man 2, ghost rider spirit of vengance) but this was the first time he did it for a prolonged period of time. But it also felt like a rehash of begins with him becoming batman. The entire bane plot felt like a rehash of the jokers plot in the dark knight.
Batman Returns
Batman 89
Batman Forever
Batman Begins
Batman & Robin
The Dark Knight Rises
The Dark Knight
Call me crazy, but I'm not the biggest fan of the second and third entries in Nolan's trilogy. Rises is alright, but I can't even watch The Dark Knight any more. The pacing and pseudo-philosophical dialogue make it a real chore.
my favorites in order by (favorite) quote:
"Lieutenant, is there a six-foot bat in Gotham City? And if so, is he on the police payroll? And if so, what's he pulling down... after taxes?"
"You're not the Devil. You're Practice."
"Why is there always someone who brings eggs and tomatoes to a speech?"
" I just want my phone call."
"Somedays you just can't get rid of a bomb!"
"She wants to kill you, Dick!" (his name or an insult?)
"Do you feel in charge?"
"You really are quite bright sir, despite what some people say."
Quote from: SilentEnigma on Mon, 24 Sep 2012, 18:45tcb
Yeah, the definition of close-mindedness. Those that love both versions seem to be either a small minority, or much less vocal
Yep. There doesn't seem to be a way for someone to be "stridently ecumenical"... but you hear "stridently divisive" stuff all the time from the usual suspects... many of whom have probably never heard of this forum.
I'm gonna rank all of the animated ones, as well. "You wanna get nuts? C'mon! Let's get nuts!"
01. BATMAN
02. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
03. Batman Returns / Batman Forever
04. Batman: The Movie
05. Batman & Robin (1997)
06. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (Uncut)
07. The Batman (1943)
08. The Batman Vs. Dracula
09. Batman & Mr. Freeze: Subzero
10. Batman: Year One
11. Batman: The Dark Knight Returns (Both Parts)
12. Batman: Under the Red Hood
13. Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman
14. Batman Begins
15. Batman: Gotham Knight
16. The Dark Knight Rises
17. The Dark Knight
18. Batman and Robin (1949)
*whew* 20 films. Batman has 20 films. Crrrr-a-zy!!
Revised list:
Batman Returns
Batman (1989)
Mask of the Phantasm
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
Batman: The Movie
Batman Forever
Batman and Robin
The Dark Knight
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight Rises
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 06:22
I'm gonna rank all of the animated ones, as well. "You wanna get nuts? C'mon! Let's get nuts!"
01. BATMAN
02. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
03. Batman Returns / Batman Forever
04. Batman: The Movie
05. Batman & Robin (1997)
06. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (Uncut)
07. The Batman (1943)
08. The Batman Vs. Dracula
09. Batman & Mr. Freeze: Subzero
10. Batman: Year One
11. Batman: The Dark Knight Returns (Both Parts)
12. Batman: Under the Red Hood
13. Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman
14. Batman Begins
15. Batman: Gotham Knight
16. The Dark Knight Rises
17. The Dark Knight
18. Batman and Robin (1949)
*whew* 20 films. Batman has 20 films. Crrrr-a-zy!!
There are lots of places on the intarweb where the above would get you lynched, tarred, feathered and run out of town. Me, I not only applaud your list but would even go so far as to half-ass endorse a lot of it.
Except for placing Sub-Zero so high up. That's crazy talk!
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 22:03
Except for placing Sub-Zero so high up. That's crazy talk!
I find it better than the DC Universe Animated Batman films and MOTBW in terms of animation. Being an original story, it doesn't feel like anything's missing (my problem with the DCUA ones), MOTBW is clearly weaker, and it's better than the Nolan films. It's placement could be no lower, and yet also no higher.
And the '49 B&R? Well, if it's more half-assed than the Nolan films, what does
that tell you about its quality?
TDK below Batwoman, The Batman vs. Dracula, BF, B'66, B'43, and even B&R...
"You're jokin', you're jokin', I can't believe my eyes, you're jokin' me, you gotta be..." ;D
Quote from: SilentEnigma on Sat, 26 Jan 2013, 15:35
TDK below Batwoman, The Batman vs. Dracula, BF, B'66, B'43, and even B&R...
"You're jokin', you're jokin', I can't believe my eyes, you're jokin' me, you gotta be..." ;D
I never joke about my work, 007!
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 22:03Except for placing Sub-Zero so high up. That's crazy talk!
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 23:37I find it better than the DC Universe Animated Batman films and MOTBW in terms of animation. Being an original story, it doesn't feel like anything's missing (my problem with the DCUA ones), MOTBW is clearly weaker, and it's better than the Nolan films. It's placement could be no lower, and yet also no higher.
Eh, I just rationalize it on the grounds that I find TDK entertaining to watch in several key scenes whereas Sub-Zero is nothing but shlock as far as I'm concerned. It serves as unintentional proof that BTAS and Mr. Freeze don't
always make for an awesome combination.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 23:37And the '49 B&R? Well, if it's more half-assed than the Nolan films, what does that tell you about its quality?
Given that I never saw '49 B&R, I shudder to think...
B&R 49 is not much different than the 60's Batman except it is B&W and lacks a budget. It's still my favorite of the two serials anyway.
The Burtonverse and the TASverse is the pinnacle of Batman for me. Not just in terms of quality, but in terms of an era, following on from each other.
True, especially for those that were kids when they came out. For some people, Keaton was their first Batman.
Updated:
Batman Returns
The Dark Knight (tie)
Batman 1989 (tie)
Batman: The Movie (1966)
Under the Red Hood
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
Batman: Sub Zero
Doom (though it's more of a JLA film)
The Batman Vs. Dracula
Batman: The Dark Knight Returns (both parts)
Batman Forever
Batman Begins
Batman Year One (love the comic, the movie version--I don't know, it's a little dry for me, the animation doesn't quite work--looks very computer generated--similar to the problem I have with TDKReturns)
Batman: Gotham Knight (some parts better than others, but I left wanting over all)
Batman and Robin (1997)
Batman (1943) (I prefer the version without the blatant racism--which makes it a short viewing)
Batman and Robin (1949--in many ways, superior to the first one, but the story is very slow)
Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman (incredibly watered down, especially considering what animated films it followed)
The Dark Knight Rises...I've come to terms with how much I detest this film.
...I feel like I may be missing something, but this is incorporating the full list of live action and animation provided by DocLB
Batman Returns
Batman (1989)
Batman Forever
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
Batman and Robin
The Dark Knight Rises - I despised this film for many reasons..
(The 1966 movie I consider to more like an extended episode of the tv show)
1. Batman Returns
2.The Dark Knight
3.Batman (1989)
4.The Dark Knight Rises
5.Batman the Movie
6.Batman Begins
7.Batman Forever
8.Batman & Robin
To me, there's a gap in quality between the top 3 and the rest and between BF and B&R.
1) Batman '89 - The story may not be perfect, but the actors drive the film and the film itself sets the tone and influence for Batman-related media for years to come.
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2) Batman Returns - Pfeiffer as Catwoman was great, as is her chemistry with Keaton. My only regret is Batman not having enough screentime than I would've liked.
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3) Batman '66 - I don't care what anyone says, it's a product of its time. And it's fun!
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4) The Dark Knight Rises - Hathaway did fine as Catwoman, dumb writing notwithstanding though it's not her fault. Hardy as Bane is unintentionally comedic, and unlike Keaton in Returns, I'm glad that Bale's screentime was limited. A guilty pleasure.
5) Batman Forever - It has some great moments, but the tryhard attempt at humour hurt the film.
6) Batman & Robin, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight - tied. Can't stand or care for either of these at all.
1. Batman 1966 - Timeless classic, pure and simple! I know the majority are into the dark side of Batman now but at least the classic 60's version didn't have the Joker killing Bruce Wayne's parents or Barbara GORDON being related to Alfred PENNYWORTH. Just saying!
2. The Dark Knight - Thrilling action from start to finish, Heath Ledger's Joker (need to say no more)
3. Batman Begins - was true to the comic story, a fantastic true comic book movie
4. Batman Returns - Fantastic portrayals of both Catwoman and Penguin, great showing both characters back stories, wish they spent more time on it though!
5. Dark Knight Rises - Anne as Catwoman was not amazing. In Batman's first fight with Bane he smacks punches in his face several times and nothing happens but yet at the end he smacks his face maybe twice and his masks pops off? Makes no sense! And killing him off with a missle didnt do the ending justice, expected an epic battle.
6. Batman 1989 - Centered around the Joker too much. Joe Chill murdering Bruce Waynes parents is a thundamental part of Batman, without this happening Batman wouldnt even exist so altering it by having the Joker murder them is just ridiculous IMO. But great batmobile!
7. Batman Forever - Jim Carry as Riddler didnt do it for me. This film is hit and miss really, can watch it if im in the mood.
8. Batman and Robin - Thank-You Joel for almost runining the Batman franchise! Batgirl related to Alfred is a no no. And the portrayal of Ivy didnt do the character any justice. Clooney as Batman? No thanks!
Quote from: batman60s on Mon, 1 Jul 2013, 15:27
6. Batman 1989 - Centered around the Joker too much. Joe Chill murdering Bruce Waynes parents is a thundamental part of Batman, without this happening Batman wouldnt even exist so altering it by having the Joker murder them is just ridiculous IMO. But great batmobile!
I think you mean 'fundamental.' But it's not. It's completely superfluous.
And it makes no difference
who killed his parents. Unless the only reason Bruce became Batman was because he didn't like Chill
specifically.
"Boy, y'know... I just don't care about my parents at all. Can't stand them. Someone could kill them for all I care. But not that Joe Chill guy. If Joe Chill kills my parents, I swear I'll become a vigilante! But only Chill. Anyone else? I'll live a normal life!"
Error
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Mon, 1 Jul 2013, 18:54
And it makes no difference who killed his parents. Unless the only reason Bruce became Batman was because he didn't like Chill specifically.
"Boy, y'know... I just don't care about my parents at all. Can't stand them. Someone could kill them for all I care. But not that Joe Chill guy. If Joe Chill kills my parents, I swear I'll become a vigilante! But only Chill. Anyone else? I'll live a normal life!"
Precisely. It's not really much of a big deal who does the deed. It just has to be someone holding a gun. Nor does it matter
when it is done, as Gotham By Gaslight highlights. Just as long as it all ends with Bruce vowing to clean up crime with a big broom.
Batman '89
TDKR/TDK/BR
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin/B66
Each movie has its strong points and I'm glad that as bat-fans we have been privileged to get eight films over these several especially starting with the classic B89 which brought Batman back to his darker more brooding roots.
Batman 1989
Batman Forever
Batman Returns
Batman Begins
Batman & Robin
Batman The Movie
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises
:)
I stand by my earlier comments about how difficult (and inaccurate) it is to rank these things.
That said though, I've noticed that if I want to watch a Batman movie, lately it's usually been either MOTP or Forever. More rarely the first hour or so of TDKRises (or whenever Bane breaks Batman's back).
Again, not ranking anything; just listing my fanboy muse's preference at the moment... which has mostly been on Superman more than Batman for the past two months or so anyway.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Mon, 1 Jul 2013, 18:54And it makes no difference who killed his parents. Unless the only reason Bruce became Batman was because he didn't like Chill specifically.
"Boy, y'know... I just don't care about my parents at all. Can't stand them. Someone could kill them for all I care. But not that Joe Chill guy. If Joe Chill kills my parents, I swear I'll become a vigilante! But only Chill. Anyone else? I'll live a normal life!"
Durrrrr, this was supposed to go in my last post. I swear, if my head wasn't attached at the shoulders...
A few things I'd want to add are that Chill specifically being the murderer of the Waynes wasn't an element of the original origin (is that redundant?). If memory serves, the killer wasn't named at all. The importance (like others have said) is that the Waynes were murdered in a seemingly random street crime. There may be embellishments added beyond that over the years but that is the core part of the origin.
The other thing is that Burton didn't just randomly swap the Joker into the role of the Waynes killer. It was done for a reason. On a thematic level, it sets up that Batman and the Joker created each other. The Joker's origin showed Batman in effect creating the Joker. So really all Burton did was close the loop. That wouldn't have been possible if a younger actor had played the Joker but Burton used Nicholson's age compared to Keaton to the film's advantage.
It economizes the plot and also subtly suggests that Batman's crusade may ultimately be self-defeating. In fighting against monsters, he may inadvertently create even worse monsters.
I would say that was somewhat continued in BR. Sure, Cobblepot's original plan was to kidnap a bunch of children... but he found enfranchisement through Shreck maneuvering him to the mayor's office. My reading is that had Cobblepot become the mayor, he wouldn't have attacked the city.
But Batman's presence pushed Cobblepot in even darker directions than he may have gone on his own. Once Batman discredits him, only then do we see the Penguin get
serious about, first, killing Gotham City's first born children and, later,
all of them... which, as above, just might not have happened had Batman not been in the picture.
To go back to the topic though, I say all of this to say that Burton didn't casually set Jack up as the Waynes killer. He had a reason for it and I think it served the films he made very well. Besides, if we're going to be sticklers about what the comics are up to, you could argue that the Waynes in Burton's film may well have just come out of a screening of the Mark of Zorro. That's not possible in BB. It works for what Nolan was doing, sure, and there are potential legal issues in referencing a rival studio's movie in WB's... but, all that aside, that ain't what happened in the comics. Should we gripe about that too? Or just let Nolan do his thing and judge him by his results?