Greetings Everyone!
Before deleting this post or merging it with the countless other "Batman 3" related topics, I ask if Paul or another mod could please merge some or all other Batman 3 related threads, posts. and/or topics here, as well as sticky this thread in order to organize and consolidate all related materiel regarding this subject materiel. I searched this forum extensively and didn't find any definitave thread collecting all of the aforementioned messages on Batman 3.
Tim Burton's BATMAN 3
Personally, I believe Tim Burton's two Batman films were by far the best. Many of us fans really wish that Tim Burton, Michael Keaton, and Danny Elfman (with a minor role from Michelle Pfeifer and Billy Dee Williams) would return one more time for their vision of a third Batman film (a direct sequel to Burton's 'Batman Returns'). It likely wouldn't happen, but with 'Rises' ending Nolan's series of bat-films, what better time for Burton/Keaton/Elfman to come back and do one more Batman to complete their own trilogy. With enough requests from fans and a consistant bombarding of the WB's offices, some dreams may come true, right? Paul, we seriously need you to interview Burton, Keaton, and/or Elfman about this! Clint Eastwood- rising in age- came back out of 'retirement' (so to speek) to be that "bad-ass cowboy" figure in Unforgiven. Despite his age, Harrison Ford dusted off his fedora and whip to play Indiana Jones nearly 20 years after "Last Crusade." The concept, if done right, works in storytelling. And it could work perfectly if Keaton were to dust off his batsuit one more time- many years after "Returns."
I know this topic has been addressed many times, but give this some serious thought. As evidenced by "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull," an enormous amount of viewers would pay money to see a movie for nostalga alone. I feel that if we all truly brainstorm how to get these desire's of a third Batman film from Burton, we could make some sort of difference. At the very least, with some passionate effort, we could get our ideas to any or all of the aforementioned people- which perhaps- could get them to consider the idea(s) and possibly even get discussions rolling about this. Who really wants another Batman reboot with Nolan's putting an end to his own reboot in July?
I this Burton/Keaton, and fans of their Bat-flicks deserve closure before anyone does yet another reboot of the franchise. This may have not worked in the last 20 years (due to the conflict Burton had with WB at the time, and the enormous success of Nolan's reboot), but I truly believe it's the perfect time to this now, for many reasons:
1) The Dark Knight Rises come out next month and it will be the end of Nolan's vision of the Bat.
2) The world loved Burton's films and greatly miss his vision of the Bat.
3) Nostalga attracts moviegoers!
4) The gap between Batman Returns and a potentiel direct sequel makes sense when factoring in Keaton's age. Again, look how commercially successful Indy 4 was? The world really missed Indiana Jones, and paid good money to see Spielberg/Harrison reprise the roles that made us fans fall in love with many years ago.
5) With a little inspiration from Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns," Batman Beyond," a well thought-out story, a well written script, and an insane amount of clever marketing and promotion, as well as getting the word out there by fans, the hype machine will start rolling and growing over the next few years, which will also give everyone involved plenty of time to think about their next reboot.
6) Another reboot will take a good amount of time, so in the mean-time, WB should tie the fans over with one more Batman tale from Mr. Burton (we need closure!).
7) If WB sees the desire us fans have for this notion, and continuously hears/sees our requests for this to happen, they would be more inclined to atleast start talks with Burton on one more movie. Indy 4 started with just some fans asking Spielberg if he'd make another Indy- which led Spielberg and Lucas to start talking- which led Harrison Ford to start talking to Spielberg and Lucas, which ultimately led to what we all now know as Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull!
Imagine the possibilities if enough requests and inquireries reached Tim Burton and Michael Keaton...
Imagine the hype that would build if anything were to come out of this...
Imagine sitting in a dark movie theatre and hearing Danny Elfman's infamous score start playing through the speakers again!
Imagine us recieving closure on Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman and her relationship with Bruce Wayne...
Imagine Billy Dee Williams portraying the role of Two-Face as he was promiced...
Imagine the possibility of Scarecrow being in the potentiel film and having a scene where he causes Batman to hallucinate (cameo from Jack Nicoleson's Joker anybody????
Speaking of Scarecrow, who better than Burton to whow us his version of such a creepy character? (I'm thinking Jeff Goldblum for the role).
Perhaps Robin Williams could finally show us what he'd do with the Riddler role?
Please fellow Batman fans, let's organize all of our posts relating to Batman 3 in this thread to make it easier to search topics related to this. Let us brainstorm together and really put in the effort to see what it would take to help get these ideas to the powers-that-be. Let us try and make this dream a reality, the best way we can. And most importantly, lets have fun and spread the word :D.
I love this forum and love what you all have done with this magnificent site. Let's try and bring back the excitement and anticipation we all shared in 1989 and 1992- and keeo it here :)
CHEERS!
There is a feature that collates all the known and credible rumours about Batman 3. I will get it relaunched soon.
I don't think a film will ever happen. In fact I would prefer the next Bat flicks to be closer to events in recent years comics.
I will create a Burton Batman 3 board and gather all related threads in it. Perhaps a Facebook page would gather more support?
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2008/4/9/burtons-3rd-batman-rumours
Given B89 and BR are so good, it's somehow hard to imagine a third Burton Batman film. And I know that's just because one never happened. It's like if Burton only did B89, and we were trying to imagine how a sequel would stack up to it.
in all likelyhood the dark knight returns treatment is being saved for a chance to cram nolan's overbearing crap into my face 20 years from now. until then i doubt they'll do any more live action batman movies. the fanbase is too rabid and stupid.
I think TDK Rises will contain a lot of TDK Returns influences, therefore he's essentially making it right here and now.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 11 Jun 2012, 04:18
in all likelyhood the dark knight returns treatment is being saved for a chance to cram nolan's overbearing crap into my face 20 years from now. until then i doubt they'll do any more live action batman movies. the fanbase is too rabid and stupid.
WB will do more Batman sooner than that. Even Nolan thinks so.
Big companies don't worry that much about the fanbase because they're a very small slice of the market.
Don't be surprised if another Batman movie moves into production next year. JLA movie on the works. Man of Steel out next year. It's coming.
Quote from: Paul (ral) on Sat, 9 Jun 2012, 23:25
There is a feature that collates all the known and credible rumours about Batman 3. I will get it relaunched soon.
I don't think a film will ever happen. In fact I would prefer the next Bat flicks to be closer to events in recent years comics.
I will create a Burton Batman 3 board and gather all related threads in it. Perhaps a Facebook page would gather more support?
The facebook page is a great idea. The more mediums of exposure, the better!
And as a reminder to everyone reading, this is for the love of Tim Burton's vision of Batman... not neccissarily a general rejuvinating of a Batman franchise... BUT Burton's take on it... as if it was a direct sequel to Batman Returns. :D
I saw a video online of a script review just passing along what i saw;
-it seems like it would have been more like a 'who done it' murder mystery. The riddler would have been the main antagonist with Catwoman and Harvey Dent both playing characters whom are more anti-heroes. They are against each other but the question would be who was good, who was bad
-Chase Meridian was in the script (and I believe this as Renne Russo was cast prior to Keaton leaving), her role was not as prominent but she gets murdered with Catwoman getting accused of killing her and denying
-arkham asylum is brought in
-as mentioned Robin was to be brought in as a mechanic (interesting because in Batman Forever, it does develop Dick Grayson as having an excellent knowledge of engines but it seems Burton wanted this to be a bigger plot point).
-the scarring of Harvey Dent does occur very late in the film (implying to be a lead in for the fourth film)
-like Batman Forever, the setting was hallowe'en with wayne manor getting broken into as well as the bat cave
-one of the latest scenes involved Batman trapping Catwoman; they kiss under the moon before catwoman hears a click behind her, realizing Bruce was handcuffing her and turning her in for the murder of Meridian
-Catwoman/selina and Robin did not get along and did have a fight
Overall I have mixed feelings. As mentioned Tim Burton did portray both his films very different. The first was portrayed as a crime drama, the second was more like a horror/fantasy, it seems the third would have been a mystery type which would have been interesting, Burtons overall film body of work s very creative but never seems to be credited as being 'smart'. I'm kind of glad Catwoman was not used again, it would have been heavily restrictive to have an opponent know Bruce Wayne's identity and if you believe he would have turned her in at the end, that leaves many questions of 'will she squeal on him?' Also the Robin treatment seems like it would have been poor; to his credit Joel Schumacher handled Dick Grayson perfectly in batman forever (i'm not going to touch the 4th film though). The origin is done properly and he ties it in with Bruce's journey. It was a great scene between Bruce and Dick when Bruce finally accepts him as his partner "two against two are better odds"
That being said if i were in charge of WB right now (I can dream can't I), my top two choices for what to do next with batman would be either arkham asylum or bring back Burton for his third film as a follow up to batman returns. I'm actually mildly curious to see how Schumacher would do if he were given carte blanche to do a sequel to batman and robin and have a darker film but let's face it he probably never would touch a comic film again as his entire legacy as a director is tarnished by one film and you could only imagine the fan reaction if he were signed for another batman film.
A third Burton Batman would've been infinitely better than Nolan's underwhelming John Blake film I'm sure. The Nolan series wasn't ever my ideal cup of tea overall - but I think TDKR really dropped the ball on a wide range of topics and on the whole left me unsatisfied.
In all seriousness, I'd rather imagine what could've been (Burton's unmade third) and leave with good standing, rather than remove all doubt and go on to do something like Rises which leaves a mixed at best reaction.
I don't know what the deal is, but the third film curse continued. I mean, if you really want to get into it, the same DC logo from BB/TDK was gone, as was James Newton Howard who scored with Zimmer for those two films.
Plot points are raised, Alfred says Gotham needs Bruce Wayne not Batman, for example - but at the end he leaves the country and makes another lie (Alfred saying the truth should have its day) about his own death. It was raised in dialogue, just like Alfred's dream at the cafe, but then forgotten about. Narratively it just didn't make sense and I thought what they did sucked. It would have been much, much better if they showed Bruce had recouped his money and served Gotham as Bruce Wayne the philanthropist and his name was looked upon fondly. Not just some guy that apparently died in riots.
I wanted to see Gordon get back together with his family. But alas, he doesn't get any form of closure. Blake's screen-time could have been imparted onto Gordon just as easily, giving him a stronger arc. IMO the movie should have been about moving away from masked vigilantes, but here, we have Batman saying anyone can be Batman. Huh? He won't let copycats be Batman at the beginning of TDK, but all of a sudden he's allowing Blake take on the job? Whether or not he decides to be Batman or some other identity, that's just bizarre to me and goes against what we're told and shown in TDK.
In terms of the way Nolan scripted the movie, what does Bruce's 'death' even mean to him? What does he get out of it? To the world, it was Batman that died towing out the bomb. Bruce could remain in Gotham or leave Gotham just fine. Nobody would blink an eye. Going through with the TDK Returns style ending just didn't make sense and I thought it was stupid.
I still think the best Batman film has yet to be made, but I really doubt they will ever do that. I always keep coming back to B89 and BR. They struck the right balance of comic book/doing your own thing, complex themes but rather simple and easy to follow stories and memorable music.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 7 Aug 2012, 08:59
A third Burton Batman would've been infinitely better than Nolan's underwhelming John Blake film I'm sure. The Nolan series wasn't ever my ideal cup of tea overall - but I think TDKR really dropped the ball on a wide range of topics and on the whole left me unsatisfied.
In all seriousness, I'd rather imagine what could've been (Burton's unmade third) and leave with good standing, rather than remove all doubt and go on to do something like Rises which leaves a mixed at best reaction.
I don't know what the deal is, but the third film curse continued. I mean, if you really want to get into it, the same DC logo from BB/TDK was gone, as was James Newton Howard who scored with Zimmer for those two films.
Plot points are raised, Alfred says Gotham needs Bruce Wayne not Batman, for example - but at the end he leaves the country and makes another lie (Alfred saying the truth should have its day) about his own death. It was raised in dialogue, just like Alfred's dream at the cafe, but then forgotten about. Narratively it just didn't make sense and I thought what they did sucked. It would have been much, much better if they showed Bruce had recouped his money and served Gotham as Bruce Wayne the philanthropist and his name was looked upon fondly. Not just some guy that apparently died in riots.
I wanted to see Gordon get back together with his family. But alas, he doesn't get any form of closure. Blake's screen-time could have been imparted onto Gordon just as easily, giving him a stronger arc. IMO the movie should have been about moving away from masked vigilantes, but here, we have Batman saying anyone can be Batman. Huh? He won't let copycats be Batman at the beginning of TDK, but all of a sudden he's allowing Blake take on the job? Whether or not he decides to be Batman or some other identity, that's just bizarre to me and goes against what we're told and shown in TDK.
In terms of the way Nolan scripted the movie, what does Bruce's 'death' even mean to him? What does he get out of it? To the world, it was Batman that died towing out the bomb. Bruce could remain in Gotham or leave Gotham just fine. Nobody would blink an eye. Going through with the TDK Returns style ending just didn't make sense and I thought it was stupid.
I still think the best Batman film has yet to be made, but I really doubt they will ever do that. I always keep coming back to B89 and BR. They struck the right balance of comic book/doing your own thing, complex themes but rather simple and easy to follow stories and memorable music.
The dark knight was a great film but you could argue it wasn't a great batman film. Actually in all 3 Nolan films the fighting was poorly done, batman is neither a stalker nor as skilled in hand to hand combat. Burton clearly portrayed him as the dark hero lurking in the shadows.
The dark knight rises, like you said the fact that the character who got the most screen time in that film was a character whom wasn't even in the comics or animated series speaks volumes over Nolan's audacity. I know the faithful Nolanites seem to like the 'everything must be grounded' rule but that generally also implies "no fun allowed"
Quote from: riddler on Tue, 7 Aug 2012, 13:59
The dark knight was a great film but you could argue it wasn't a great batman film. Actually in all 3 Nolan films the fighting was poorly done, batman is neither a stalker nor as skilled in hand to hand combat. Burton clearly portrayed him as the dark hero lurking in the shadows.
The dark knight rises, like you said the fact that the character who got the most screen time in that film was a character whom wasn't even in the comics or animated series speaks volumes over Nolan's audacity. I know the faithful Nolanites seem to like the 'everything must be grounded' rule but that generally also implies "no fun allowed"
I agree, riddler. As I said, BB and TDK weren't my ideal cup of tea in terms of approach with the realism and such (they have plot curiosities going on as well) but this one didn't sit well with me at all. It's like Nolan and his team thought they could dish out anything and people would lap it up and take it. He certainly was at that point after TDK's praise.
There's lots of issues I have with it, and I'm going to have to calm down and get it all out in a coherent, clear manner. It's not just "I hate the movie and that's it." I have reasoning behind it. I wanted the movie to be good, but I was very surprised how let down I was. I can understand why Bane was chosen and I have supported the decision in the past by stating he is the king of his respective field, eg. physicality, and the Joker was the king of chaos. But you know, I thought Bane was boring. They did give him something of a backstory and he shed a tear at the end, but really, I found him too one note. When Dagget calls him pure evil he doesn't deny it.
I know Bane is not The Joker, but Bane had nothing about him. I found him and aspects of the movie too bleak, and his plan reasoning (attacking Gotham during peace time, the LOS only attacked Gotham in BB as it was beyond saving) to be strange as well. Ras would have been rolling in his grave with this mentality. They 'brought it back to Begins' for really no reason at all. They should've moved the plot forward just as TDK did. If they had to have Bane, he could've found the truth about Dent before coming to Gotham, and being his own man - instead of fulfilling Ras Al Ghul's legacy. Which as I said, didn't make sense in the current day context.
I think the Batman 3 script was a fake that people 'reviewed' it. As far to my knowledge, Burton was doing meetings with WB before the script was written. I think when they were searching for a new batman director was when the script was being made. Then when Joel was brought it, he hired his own script writer to make Batman Forever..
And yes, TDKR was an awful Batman film. Good fun film, but Batman ? No.. He should have went full ROBIN in that movie instead of tip toeing around the idea of Robin in the Nolan film.
Quote from: Batman333 on Thu, 6 Sep 2012, 06:03
I think the Batman 3 script was a fake that people 'reviewed' it. As far to my knowledge, Burton was doing meetings with WB before the script was written. I think when they were searching for a new batman director was when the script was being made. Then when Joel was brought it, he hired his own script writer to make Batman Forever..
And yes, TDKR was an awful Batman film. Good fun film, but Batman ? No.. He should have went full ROBIN in that movie instead of tip toeing around the idea of Robin in the Nolan film.
Yeah especially with Bruce so reluctant and supposedly injured, it would have been more logical to have a younger protege who could do the fighting and leave Batman to be the brains and detective.
It doesn't seem like Burton got awfully far into the third film. I can't remember where I saw it but there was a morning show interview with Burton while returns was in theatres and even then he seemed reluctant and hesitant on the third film. And while you can say all his films have similar styles he does seem to like to do different things with each film. Even his two batman films were vastly different.
I remember hearing that after Batman & Robin (1998-ish) that Warner Bros. wanted to bring Burton back on board for Batman doing a 5th movie with The Scarecrow... does anyone else recall those rumblings? I remember Keaton being on The Carson Daly show and admitting that he was going to be Batman in Burton's new Superman film (which we know now never came to pass)...
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Thu, 13 Sep 2012, 05:41I remember hearing that after Batman & Robin (1998-ish) that Warner Bros. wanted to bring Burton back on board for Batman doing a 5th movie with The Scarecrow... does anyone else recall those rumblings?
I heard that same stuff and mostly chalked it up to fanboy wishful thinking (Burton was more highly regarded back then). The clear impression I had was that after B&R, WB was, for the moment at least, washing their hands of Batman... which obviously proved to be the case.
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Thu, 13 Sep 2012, 05:41I remember Keaton being on The Carson Daly show and admitting that he was going to be Batman in Burton's new Superman film (which we know now never came to pass)...
As far as I can remember that was actually legit. Had Burton actually made the film, apparently Keaton would've had a cameo of some kind as Batman. Can't remember if that was in Kevin Smith's script but I think I read that it was in the Gilroy script and/or the Strick script.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 13 Sep 2012, 05:54
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Thu, 13 Sep 2012, 05:41I remember hearing that after Batman & Robin (1998-ish) that Warner Bros. wanted to bring Burton back on board for Batman doing a 5th movie with The Scarecrow... does anyone else recall those rumblings?
I heard that same stuff and mostly chalked it up to fanboy wishful thinking (Burton was more highly regarded back then). The clear impression I had was that after B&R, WB was, for the moment at least, washing their hands of Batman... which obviously proved to be the case.
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Thu, 13 Sep 2012, 05:41I remember Keaton being on The Carson Daly show and admitting that he was going to be Batman in Burton's new Superman film (which we know now never came to pass)...
As far as I can remember that was actually legit. Had Burton actually made the film, apparently Keaton would've had a cameo of some kind as Batman. Can't remember if that was in Kevin Smith's script but I think I read that it was in the Gilroy script and/or the Strick script.
I think you're right on both counts. Any 5th batman film rumours seemed to have Schumacher being kept on. I never say any one strong enough to have Burton returning for a solo batman film once forever came to pass.