I heard that the Joker's reign in Gotham was mentioned at one point during the movie, but I can't find where. Anyone else pick it up?
Penguin's line in the speech about Eagle Scouts turning into "crazed clowns"?
Maybe. Could be referencing the circus gang as well, though.
Quote from: Slash Man on Mon, 27 Jun 2011, 21:06
Maybe. Could be referencing the circus gang as well, though.
Yeah; since the Red Triangle was a contemporary issue at the time, and The Joker had been dead for a while, I put my money on it being about the Red Triangle-rs...
That's probably where people are getting it from, but the Joker's rise and fall occured during Mayor Borg's term, and Hamilton Hill is the current mayor (I think; either way, they're different people).
Napier was a gangster with reputation. Grissom's number one guy and a man's man within that society. You could label him as an "eagle scout" in that regard. Concerning the Circus Gang, the fact he says "clowns" means more than one. He could very well be referencing current issues. I don't think many of the members would've been "eagle scouts", they seem like freaks since day dot. But The Penguin is spinning the narrative he wants people to hear. The City is losing it's way, and it's the current Mayor's fault. Or if it's a Joker reference, the City has been losing it's way for quite some time, and it's ongoing. It is ambiguous. You can have it any way you want.
Gotham City was always marred by crime in its current state, but the Joker was who gave the first widespread scare to the city. Like you said, he was a very intelligent person who made the wrong choices. The circus gang have been with Penguin for a long, which means they were just as troubled as him. But there's always the possibility that he's just making up stuff to incriminate the mayor.
Quote from: Slash Man on Tue, 28 Jun 2011, 04:10
Gotham City was always marred by crime in its current state, but the Joker was who gave the first widespread scare to the city.
Indeed. Low level hoodlums aren't nearly as dramatic. Like in TDK, The Joker was the pioneer and signalled a change. The first to put a face to it, to stand out in a world of generic crime. But what is interesting is that in the Burtonverse, that change already existed. It just waited to emerge at some point. Ala the Penguin. He was born that way. And Catwoman felt comfortable enough to behave in such a manner because it became the norm.
Wait, Wasnt there a newspaper article shown about Jokers crime? A Blink and you miss it kind of thing. I personally have never found it, but i rmember people talking about that somewhere. Maybe Im looking in the wrong places.
Quote from: TPerry007 on Tue, 28 Jun 2011, 20:49
Wait, Wasnt there a newspaper article shown about Jokers crime? A Blink and you miss it kind of thing. I personally have never found it, but i rmember people talking about that somewhere. Maybe Im looking in the wrong places.
No. They thought about it, but it never happened. It was regarding The Joker's body going missing.
Returns' only weak spot was continuity. That little tidbit would've made all the difference.
Quote from: Slash Man on Wed, 29 Jun 2011, 00:36
Returns' only weak spot was continuity. That little tidbit would've made all the difference.
I disagree.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 29 Jun 2011, 07:18
Quote from: Slash Man on Wed, 29 Jun 2011, 00:36
Returns' only weak spot was continuity. That little tidbit would've made all the difference.
I disagree.
Seriously; referencing The Joker in Returns would've made it a better movie?
Quote from: Smalley on Wed, 29 Jun 2011, 07:21
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 29 Jun 2011, 07:18
Quote from: Slash Man on Wed, 29 Jun 2011, 00:36
Returns' only weak spot was continuity. That little tidbit would've made all the difference.
I disagree.
Seriously; referencing The Joker in Returns would've made it a better movie?
Indeed Smalley. It wouldn't make any difference. BR's charm is that it's a completely different vibe.
The Vicki Vale reference is enough. And without mentioning anything, the continuity is there for the fact that it's a sequel anyway.
Quote from: Smalley on Wed, 29 Jun 2011, 07:21
Seriously; referencing The Joker in Returns would've made it a better movie?
Yeah. Not majorly of course, but I would've liked if they used that idea.
While it may not matter as much to come people, continuity is still a problem. Gotham looks completely different, and we're missing some important characters in the Batman series. While this still is one of my top movie, I do feel it is still a weak spot, but only when you look at it as a sequel.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 28 Jun 2011, 23:26
Quote from: TPerry007 on Tue, 28 Jun 2011, 20:49
Wait, Wasnt there a newspaper article shown about Jokers crime? A Blink and you miss it kind of thing. I personally have never found it, but i rmember people talking about that somewhere. Maybe Im looking in the wrong places.
No. They thought about it, but it never happened. It was regarding The Joker's body going missing.
Oh, now if that was in Returns, that would have made the film like 1001/10 instead of, well 1000/10...
Still, it would have been cool IMO.
I believe in the first draft of the script Joker was mentioned.
Quote from: gotham22 on Sat, 9 Jul 2011, 16:49
I believe in the first draft of the script Joker was mentioned.
You mean in Sam Hamm's?
Quote from: Seantastic on Sat, 9 Jul 2011, 13:47
Still, it would have been cool IMO.
Hmm. The film was cool enough. I mean, we had snow, ice, Arctic World and penguins. And how can we not forget, Oswald's campaign headquarters had an air conditioner with confetti attached. Even to a guy like me,
that's cold.
I see what you did there...
Remember the cheesy "cut-scenes" of old 8/16-bit games? A few lines of narration and static screens. The Joker was mentioned in the intro cut scene of BR for NES. I always thought it was pretty pointless (they must have tried to connect it with the succesful BATMAN Sunsoft games).
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobygames.com%2Fimages%2Fshots%2Fl%2F42669-batman-returns-nes-screenshot-intros.gif&hash=22118e1db2dba9b571377a97d7febb9f6bfd522f)
That's a cool tidbit. I guess it would matter to Sunsoft because he was the subject of the previous two games (in the original prototype of Batman: The Video Game, The Joker wasn't killed). And he was only locked up after Batman: Return of the Joker.
Quote from: SilentEnigma on Sun, 10 Jul 2011, 09:41
Remember the cheesy "cut-scenes" of old 8/16-bit games? A few lines of narration and static screens. The Joker was mentioned in the intro cut scene of BR for NES. I always thought it was pretty pointless (they must have tried to connect it with the succesful BATMAN Sunsoft games).
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobygames.com%2Fimages%2Fshots%2Fl%2F42669-batman-returns-nes-screenshot-intros.gif&hash=22118e1db2dba9b571377a97d7febb9f6bfd522f)
I remember that. True, it was kinda pointless. I always just marked it up as someone just being a fan and wanting to throw in the Joker's name into the game for the sakes of having him mentioned. Someone saw a opening and took advantage of it.
Joker being mentioned in
Batman Returns would have been a fun moment, sure. But I don't necessarily think it would have made the film any better than it already is.
For instance, my favorite Spider-Man villain is Doc Ock. Did I like the headline about him still being at large in
Spider-Man 3? You bet. Did it really make the film BETTER because of it? No.
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 13 Jul 2011, 01:19
Did I like the headline about him still being at large in Spider-Man 3?
I've always taken that as a 'legacy' type homage. You know, the guy is dead and this is something to remember those crazy times by. The front page being printed during SM2 while Spider-Man was out of comission. But indeed, it was a nice touch, but as you said, didn't really make the film better or worse.
This topic makes me think of the killer in the scene where Bruce day dreams of his parents murder in Batman Forever. I always picture Jack Napier/Joker being the killer in that scene.
Quote from: gotham22 on Wed, 13 Jul 2011, 06:22
This topic makes me think of the killer in the scene where Bruce day dreams of his parents murder in Batman Forever. I always picture Jack Napier/Joker being the killer in that scene.
Definately not the only one.
I remember seeing Batman Forever opening day, and when that scene played, there was ALOT of people in the theater saying "Joker".
It was still a young Jack Napier, but the face was never shown this time... maybe it has something to do with memory. Forever definately references the Joker, but it's never obvious, like the scene where bruce and Dick are talking, and Bruce mentions his parents were also killed by a "madman." I like the subtle reference.
I don't know what the big debate is about if it would be better or not, but I think it would be a nice touch. Though not enough to really say it's "better."
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 14 Jul 2011, 05:37
Quote from: gotham22 on Wed, 13 Jul 2011, 06:22
This topic makes me think of the killer in the scene where Bruce day dreams of his parents murder in Batman Forever. I always picture Jack Napier/Joker being the killer in that scene.
Definately not the only one.
I remember seeing Batman Forever opening day, and when that scene played, there was ALOT of people in the theater saying "Joker".
Also that deleted scene on the Special Edition. Alfred telling Bruce his parents have been avenged.